Corbyn, This is democracy!!!! Options

[blackdog]

Well, I can't argue with that. Unfortunately his "values" are minority values.

Not in the Labour party, which will re-elect him in September.

British politics needs an alternative to Thatcherism - at the moment Corbyn, SNP and the Greens are it.

Perhaps Labour will be unable to win power with these policies, but they were unable to win power with New Labour Thatcherism even after an unpopular coalition. Would Eagle or Smith win the next election? I doubt it. Would they do better than Corbyn? We can never know, but I doubt it.

[GMR]

Not in the Labour party, which will re-elect him in September.

But which part of the Labour party? And I am sure that many people outside the Labour party will also hope that he is elected in September.

British politics needs an alternative to Thatcherism - at the moment Corbyn, SNP and the Greens are it.

Maybe they should join forces and create a new party.

Perhaps Labour will be unable to win power with these policies, but they were unable to win power with New Labour Thatcherism even after an unpopular coalition. Would Eagle or Smith win the next election? I doubt it. Would they do better than Corbyn? We can never know, but I doubt it.

I think first they must win back Scotland and the North of England to have a chance. But that has to be with a new leader.

[Simon Kirby]

I think first they must win back Scotland and the North of England to have a chance. But that has to be with a new leader.

Why the need to "win" anything? Scotland elected the SNP with a near total whitewash, and as far as I can tell the SNP represent Labour values in Scotland perfectly well so the best strategy for me is for Labour to withdraw totally from Scotland and leave it to the Scottish Conservatives to offer an alternative politics. Labour also need to invite the best and brightest of the SNP at westminster onto the Opposition front benches out of respect for the SNP's mandate to govern in Scotland.

[On the edge]

It isn't just about winning votes. The Blair idea of being more Tory than Tory might have worked for a while, but it's not sustainable. Having three conservative parties (four if you count UKIP) isn't democracy and brings it down to a choice of apples or apples. It also brings us to the managerial, 'free microwave' if you vote for me politics which boils down to the voters choice as being what colour their Ritlin dose should be.

[On the edge]

I heard now former lLabour Leader contender on the radio explaining how the MPs were actually in touch with public opinion. Apparently it's because like her, they hold very busy constituency surgeries, full of people who are begging them for help to mitigate the cuts. So, no matter what, nothing will stop her helping those people.

Indeed, very worthy I'm sure, but demonstrates what is wrong. That is, the bulk of the population see local and now national politicians as little more than social workers. Sadly, the politicians (who have actually encouraged this) see this as gathering public opinion.

The Queen gets on a train now and again, a train is public transport, ergo, the Queen is one of the people.

[blackdog]

I heard now former lLabour Leader contender on the radio explaining how the MPs were actually in touch with public opinion. Apparently it's because like her, they hold very busy constituency surgeries, full of people who are begging them for help to mitigate the cuts. So, no matter what, nothing will stop her helping those people.

Perhaps she should go to a meeting of her constituency party - who are considering deselecting her.

[blackdog]

But which part of the Labour party?

The biggest part - that's how elections work.

I don't think Corbyn will win a general election, I don't think he's a great party leader - but I think his election to lead Labour is the best thinig that has happened in British politics for many years.

[TallDarkAndHands...]

The biggest part - that's how elections work.

I don't think Corbyn will win a general election, I don't think he's a great party leader - but I think his election to lead Labour is the best thinig that has happened in British politics for many years.

He may well now lose. Owen Smith. Ex BBC journalist..... wonder how the BBC will play that.

They'd have organism's (deliberate) if one of their own won the Labour leadership.

[On the edge]

Perhaps she should go to a meeting of her constituency party - who are considering deselecting her.

Quite so! Indeed, the growth in membership also underlines that.

[GMR]

Why the need to "win" anything? Scotland elected the SNP with a near total whitewash, and as far as I can tell the SNP represent Labour values in Scotland perfectly well so the best strategy for me is for Labour to withdraw totally from Scotland and leave it to the Scottish Conservatives to offer an alternative politics. Labour also need to invite the best and brightest of the SNP at westminster onto the Opposition front benches out of respect for the SNP's mandate to govern in Scotland.

For a start Nicola Sturgeon is not Corbyn, nor was Alex Salmond. They were both more articulate than Corbyn. Also their SMPs backed their leader 100%, Corbyn doesn't get that and they also have PR, there isn't that in a general election. And finally the Scottish people deserted Labour for the SNP, while the Scottish Tories took second place. You can see where I am going here?

Another point; Labour doesn't support Scotland leaving the UK.

[GMR]

It isn't just about winning votes. The Blair idea of being more Tory than Tory might have worked for a while, but it's not sustainable. Having three conservative parties (four if you count UKIP) isn't democracy and brings it down to a choice of apples or apples. It also brings us to the managerial, 'free microwave' if you vote for me politics which boils down to the voters choice as being what colour their Ritlin dose should be.

I disagree; you can have three centrist parties (or Tory as you call them). All parties have had to take the centre ground if they want to govern. Now that Labour have turned far-left they've become a minority party. Even in Scotland the SMP have moved to the centre ground. And that is the thoughts of the people (majority centre). But having three "Tory parties" doesn't mean three exact same policies. They can all cut their cloth accordingly.

Blair's ideas failed, not because of "more Tory," but because of the Iraq and most of his policies were just sound bites. And we also must forget that the Tories weren't electable at the time. Blair type Tory politics could have survived if they had a leader who knew what he was doing. The same applies for the actual Tory party. At the end of the day it has always boiled down to apples or apples, the question is, what variety of apples?

[GMR]

Perhaps she should go to a meeting of her constituency party - who are considering deselecting her.

Who is considering deselecting her? According to the last polls I read she has about 85% popularity. I bet politicians would love that, and they are voted for.

[On the edge]

I disagree; you can have three centrist parties (or Tory as you call them). All parties have had to take the centre ground if they want to govern. Now that Labour have turned far-left they've become a minority party. Even in Scotland the SMP have moved to the centre ground. And that is the thoughts of the people (majority centre). But having three "Tory parties" doesn't mean three exact same policies. They can all cut their cloth accordingly.

Blair's ideas failed, not because of "more Tory," but because of the Iraq and most of his policies were just sound bites. And we also must forget that the Tories weren't electable at the time. Blair type Tory politics could have survived if they had a leader who knew what he was doing. The same applies for the actual Tory party. At the end of the day it has always boiled down to apples or apples, the question is, what variety of apples?

For me, that exactly sums up what's wrong with today's politics. It means there is no point in voting. I'm going to get an apple so why am I that concerned what type, particularly if I don't like apples and would rather have a bag of crisps.

What seems to be the biggest problem is the now well outdated segmentation. Labour; seen as the 'workers' party, the Tory's, the establishment. That leaves UKIP which is really Thatcherisim (Cobdenite Liberalisim) or LibDem as the Fabians bringing up the rear. We do need new groupings, big or small government.

[On the edge]

Who is considering deselecting her? According to the last polls I read she has about 85% popularity. I bet politicians would love that, and they are voted for.

Her constituency party; the 'feet on the ground' door knockers in her constituency. Must admit, given their lamentable performance at the General Election and now the referendum what credibility have they got left? Their ability to get an accurate result is as good as WBC!

[GMR]

For me, that exactly sums up what's wrong with today's politics. It means there is no point in voting. I'm going to get an apple so why am I that concerned what type, particularly if I don't like apples and would rather have a bag of crisps.

But that is the thing, there is options. You can vote for extreme left or right. There are plenty of options, but the general public prefer more centrist thinking. So, yes there are bags of crisps on offer (you do have a choice), but, and as you have pointed out, it is about democracy, and most people prefer the centre ground. In other words, most people prefer apples. Isn't that truly democracy, or do you prefer forcing feeding people the crisps (isn't that communism ?).

What seems to be the biggest problem is the now well outdated segmentation. Labour; seen as the 'workers' party, the Tory's, the establishment. That leaves UKIP which is really Thatcherisim (Cobdenite Liberalisim) or LibDem as the Fabians bringing up the rear. We do need new groupings, big or small government.

I agree that we need a new grouping, but that grouping must put their troops on the centre ground to stand any chance of being in Government. And as the Tory being the "establishment"; yes, but that is only because the others have left the centre ground. Blair was wise enough to work that out and that is why he won three terms.

[GMR]

Her constituency party; the 'feet on the ground' door knockers in her constituency. Must admit, given their lamentable performance at the General Election and now the referendum what credibility have they got left? Their ability to get an accurate result is as good as WBC!

I thought we were talking about the Queen here?

[Simon Kirby]

Now that Labour have turned far-left...

I've heard it said, but is it true? Corbyn isn't the party of course, but as your assertion is made in the context of a discussion of his leadership it's worth looking at what Jon Kelly of the BBC says Corbyn believes:

1. The deficit should be tackled - but not through spending cuts and not to an "arbitrary" deadline. Instead Corbyn would fund its reduction via higher taxes for the rich and a crackdown on tax avoidance and evasion while tackling "corporate welfare" and tax breaks for companies.

2. Britain's railways should be renationalised. He is also opposed to the HS2 rail scheme, saying it would turn northern cities into "dormitories for London businesses".

3. Far more allotments would be good for the UK. He has a plot near his constituency in north London and told the Commons in 2008 that councils and builders "should be doing their best to ensure that every new development includes some allotment space".

4. Talking to militant groups is necessary to win peace in the Middle East. Corbyn faced heavy criticism for using the word "friends" to describe Hamas and Hezbollah. He has responded by saying he had used the term in a "collective way" adding that while he does not agree with either organisation, a peace process means "you have to talk to people with whom you may profoundly disagree".

5. "Quantitative easing for people" could be used to invest in housing, energy, transport and digital projects. Unlike the £375bn issued electronically by the Bank of England between 2009 and 2012 to buy bonds, gilts and other debts, this would be "QE for people instead of banks", Corbyn says. Tax campaigner Richard Murphy argues these plans would stimulate the economy and boost employment. But Shadow Chancellor Chris Leslie attacked the proposal, saying it would lead to higher inflation and interest rates, hurting the poor most.

6. Replacing Trident would be a costly mistake. Corbyn, a long-term CND member, says plans to replace the nuclear missile system should be ditched. He believes the project's £100bn price tag could be better spent "on our national well-being".

7. A National Education Service modelled on the NHS should be established. Under Corbyn, state-funded academies and free schools would be forced to return to local authority control while university tuition fees would be scrapped and replaced with grants. Corbyn would look at ending the charitable status of public schools, although he accepts this would be complicated and might not happen immediately. He reportedly split up with one of his former wives following a disagreement over whether to send their son to a grammar school or a comprehensive. Asked recently if the break-up was over an "an issue of principle", Corbyn told the Guardian newspaper: "I feel very strongly about comprehensive education, yes."

8. Labour should not support air strikes against Islamic State in Syria. Corbyn, who is national chair of the Stop the War Coalition, believes innocent Syrians would suffer and the supply of arms and funds to the Islamic State group should be cut off instead. He opposed military action against the Assad regime in 2013 and was a prominent critic of the invasion of Iraq. His website says he wants to see "illegal wars" replaced with a "foreign policy that prioritises justice and assistance". Asked during a Sky News hustings whether there were any circumstances in which he would deploy UK military forces, Corbyn said: "I'm sure there are some but I can't think of them at the moment."

9. Rent controls should be re-introduced, linking private rents to local earnings, and more council houses should be built. He also believes that council tenants' right to buy their homes should be extended to private sector renters.

10. The Chagos islanders evicted from Diego Garcia should be allowed to return. Some 2,000 people were displaced from the British Indian Ocean territory between 1967 and 1971 to make way for a US air base. Corbyn has been a long-standing supporter of their campaign to go back.

11. The immigration debate has been "quite unpleasant". In an interview with Channel 4 News, Corbyn said the current discourse around the issue "fails to recognise the huge contribution migrants have made to this country". He added: "We should let people into this country who are desperate to get somewhere safe to live".

12. The dispute between the UK and Argentina over the Falkland Islands could be resolved with "some degree of joint administration". In an interview with the BBC in 2013 he said other territorial disputes had been settled in this way, and under such an arrangement the islanders' British nationality could be maintained. He added that during the 1982 Falklands conflict it had been in Margaret Thatcher's interests to "divert attention from her catastrophic economic issues". During the leadership campaign, a Corbyn spokesman said he supported "a long-term negotiated settlement" that took the islanders' views into account.

13. High property prices are leading to the closure of London pubs. In 2013, he said in the Commons that pub companies "make a great deal of money out of selling them" to developers.

14. An arms embargo should be imposed on Israel. Corbyn, who is a patron of the Palestine Solidarity Campaign, said in August that Palestinian refugees should be given a "right of return". He supported a boycott of goods produced in Israeli settlements and of Israeli universities that engage in arms research.

15. Corbyn is a committed republican, but he would not seek to end the monarchy. He told the New Statesman: "It's not the fight I'm going to fight - it's not the fight I'm interested in."

16. Remaining in the European Union but with changes. Corbyn says he is not content with the EU as it stands, but wants to stay to fight for a "better Europe". He had previously refused to rule out campaigning to leave. He also opposes the Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership (TTIP) deal.

17. Corbyn backs cycling. He does not own a car and declined to share one with the BBC's Chris Mason for an interview, saying: "I cycle all the time. Actually I've got a confession to make, a rather naughty secret - I've got two bikes." He is also a member of the All Party Parliamentary Group on Cycling.

18. Energy companies should be under public ownership. He says he would be "much happier" with a "regulated, publicly run service delivering energy supplies". He is "totally opposed" to fracking. However, he says deep-mine coal pits in the north of England could be reopened.

19. Ireland should be united. Corbyn has long supported British withdrawal from Northern Ireland and invited Sinn Fein President Gerry Adams to the House of Commons as far back as 1984. He was criticised for observing a minute's silence for eight IRA members killed by the SAS in 1987 and once employed Irish Republican Ronan Bennett as a member of staff at Westminster.

20. A national maximum wage should be introduced to cap the salaries of high earners. He would also introduce a windfall tax on former state assets such as the Royal Bank of Scotland, which he says were privatised too cheaply.

21. Every child should have the chance to learn a musical instrument or act on stage. Corbyn's arts policy also includes directing a greater proportion of funding to local projects, widening access and protecting the BBC.
Image copyright Getty Images

22. Private Finance Initiative deals with the NHS should be ended by using government funds to buy them out. Writing in the Guardian, Corbyn said they were a "mess" that were costing the health service billions.

23. A "serious debate about the powers of Nato" is needed, but Corbyn has said there is not "an appetite as a whole for people to leave". Corbyn has previously supported withdrawal and believes it should have been wound up in 1990 at the same time as the Warsaw Pact. He also said open eastward expansion of Nato would lead the Russian military to conclude that it had "to expand to counteract Nato".

24. The arms trade should be restricted. Corbyn would like to see the "brilliance and skill of those in the arms industry be converted for peaceful purposes".

I suggest if this assemblage of policy thinking is "far-left" then that's only because the middle ground of British politics has drifted so ridiculously rightwards.

And did you see No. 3? Can't help but love this guy.

[Simon Kirby]

I suggest if this assemblage of policy thinking is "far-left" then that's only because the middle ground of British politics has drifted so ridiculously rightwards.

And this is what passes without comment as moderate middle-of-the-road centrist Liberal Democracy - £thousands of public money spent on regalia, uniforms, flag poles, and a mayoral enthronement ceremony while there is not enough public money to pay for respite care for disabled children, public toilets, public libraries, adult mental health services, and public transport for school children.

[GMR]

I've heard it said, but is it true? Corbyn isn't the party of course, but as your assertion is made in the context of a discussion of his leadership it's worth looking at what Jon Kelly of the BBC says Corbyn believes: I suggest if this assemblage of policy thinking is "far-left" then that's only because the middle ground of British politics has drifted so ridiculously rightwards. And did you see No. 3? Can't help but love this guy.

So, it is about allotments'?

I don't believe that it has moved far-right, however, anything on the far-left sees anything away from that spot as far-left. However, if you are right, then it is because the people moved in that direction. And without the people, you haven't got anything. And don't you profess to support the people?

[GMR]

And this is what passes without comment as moderate middle-of-the-road centrist Liberal Democracy - £thousands of public money spent on regalia, uniforms, flag poles, and a mayoral enthronement ceremony while there is not enough public money to pay for respite care for disabled children, public toilets, public libraries, adult mental health services, and public transport for school children.

You could look at it a different way. Such regalia attracts people from all over the world (tourists), and from this country. The money that is made on that alone outweighs the money spent on such regalia etc.

"The United Kingdom is the world's 8th biggest tourist destination, with 36.115 million visiting in 2015. US$22.072 billion was spent in the UK by foreign tourists. VisitBritain data shows that the US remains the most-valuable inbound market, with American visitors spending £2.1 billion in 2010." And why do they come? Because of our pomp and ceremony. Removing it could mean that you end up cutting your nose off to spite your face. All this money helps those that you have quoted.