Halal, why should we put up with this?, If fox hunting with dogs is outlawed, why not Halal? Options

[Turin Machine]

It’s not that hard.

Says your missus!

[newres]

I think the point is that it is not a very intelligent argument to point out breaches of the law and say “this is why halal is bad”. Particularly as a quick Google will find dozens of examples of non halal prosecutions. The underlying theme is that Muslims are cruel to animals. Well, fox hunting any one? Now there is an example of operating outside of the law! With impunity.

[Andy Capp]

Says your missus!

It assumes one cares.

[SirWilliam]

I think the point is that it is not a very intelligent argument to point out breaches of the law and say “this is why halal is bad”. Particularly as a quick Google will find dozens of examples of non halal prosecutions. The underlying theme is that Muslims are cruel to animals. Well, fox hunting any one? Now there is an example of operating outside of the law! With impunity.

I accept your view that cruelty is not confined to any particular race or religious order but the simple fact is that a cruel method of slaughter is being conducted in our own backyard on the supposed directive of some tooth fairy who, if he does actually exist, has never had the common decency to show himself. I am not sufficiently naive to believe that bad practice does not happen in non halal abattoirs,
(though you will have to travel a long distance to find one), but only by having one standard for all can we get somewhere near our common objective. We are, as a species, intrinsically cruel but that does not mean we have to accept it as a given. The argument that those who object to halal slaughter are quite happy to see a fox torn to pieces is complete balderdash, cruelty is cruelty.

[newres]

I accept your view that cruelty is not confined to any particular race or religious order but the simple fact is that a cruel method of slaughter is being conducted in our own backyard on the supposed directive of some tooth fairy who, if he does actually exist, has never had the common decency to show himself. I am not sufficiently naive to believe that bad practice does not happen in non halal abattoirs,
(though you will have to travel a long distance to find one), but only by having one standard for all can we get somewhere near our common objective. We are, as a species, intrinsically cruel but that does not mean we have to accept it as a given. The argument that those who object to halal slaughter are quite happy to see a fox torn to pieces is complete balderdash, cruelty is cruelty.

And killing is killing. I don't like the Halal, but the Jews use the same method and they mutilate boy's here in the UK. Where's your outrage? This is all about racism and hatred for Muslims.

[SirWilliam]

And killing is killing. I don't like the Halal, but the Jews use the same method and they mutilate boy's here in the UK. Where's your outrage? This is all about racism and hatred for Muslims.

Why get outraged over something that has been conducted over millennia with little chance of being stopped unless we adopt a stance that would only alienate those who we would wish to bring on board? There are so many unacceptable practices that we could fill a couple of A4 pages and each one will have it's followers and dissenters. Of course we would like to see the back of ALL of obnoxious practice but by ranting over a single issue one is only accused of racism, antisemitism or simply deluded. What we need is a UK, (for starters), law that makes it a criminal offence to cause pain and suffering to any citizen or animal. This will include everything from the meat trade to those who abuse children behind closed doors. If the penalty is high enough it will disappear overnight or the perpetrators leave the country and conduct their "trade" where it is considered acceptable.
Now we all know this is not going to happen but what we can do is push those issues that the public are likely to support and one thing that the British do not like is seeing a "cuddly" farm animal being butchered alive, and for that reason alone we need to keep badgering the political elite to implement change.
As a certain Chinese leader said " a journey of a thousand miles starts with a single step" and he had a novel approach to those who disagreed.
Being a racist means disliking someone because of their colour/religion/being here, not objecting to their cultural practices which are illegal but conveniently swept under the carpet in the fear of being accused of the former.

[Andy Capp]

Being a racist means disliking someone because of their colour/religion/being here, not objecting to their cultural practices which are illegal but conveniently swept under the carpet in the fear of being accused of the former.

Racist is a word with a broad meaning. I think it means to make judgment based on race or creed, rather than objective considerations. By selecting Halal (which isn't always non-stunned) before Kosha (which must be non-stunned) looks prejudiced.

However, the cruelty described previously is actually in many cases already illegal, so it doesn't stand that it is over-looked. Unfortunately our ruling classes have decided to give credence to cultural and ethnic practice and permit non-stunning to occur. While I don't think that is acceptable once it has been proved that non-stunning is cruel, or that animals unduly suffer, the next stop will be to look into other aspects of animal welfare which actually may impinge on the lives of more common cultures.

[newres]

Being a racist means disliking someone because of their colour/religion/being here, not objecting to their cultural practices which are illegal but conveniently swept under the carpet in the fear of being accused of the former.

However, in an attempt to avoid a charge of racism the current approach is to attack an aspect of their culture, or to accuse a race or creed of a particular crime and ignore the same crime by the rest of the population. The current popular ones are Halal, FGM and grooming.

[Turin Machine]

Non stun slaughter is unnecessary suffering and cruelty whether it's practiced by Muslims or jews. No way round it. It's something that excises me greatly and needs to be banned, being an SJW and playing the race card just don't cut it anymore.

[SirWilliam]

Non stun slaughter is unnecessary suffering and cruelty whether it's practiced by Muslims or jews. No way round it. It's something that excises me greatly and needs to be banned, being an SJW and playing the race card just don't cut it anymore.

Hear hear.

[newres]

Non stun slaughter is unnecessary suffering and cruelty whether it's practiced by Muslims or jews. No way round it. It's something that excises me greatly and needs to be banned, being an SJW and playing the race card just don't cut it anymore.

However in 26 pages it’s only halal that’s singled out. Why’s that?

[TallDarkAndHands...]

However in 26 pages it’s only halal that’s singled out. Why’s that?

You see racism in everything. The Islamic community is 11 times the number of the jewish community. And I dare say that will quickly be 20 or 30 times.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in..._United_Kingdom

Halal is predominantly associated with Islam so that is why. Bigger population = bigger problem.

[Turin Machine]

However in 26 pages it’s only halal that’s singled out. Why’s that?

for me, principally, it's because halal meat is fed into my foodchain, unnoticed, under the back door. For me and my kids to eat, without any kind of consultation whatever. Imagine the shrieks of protest from the snowflake brigade if it was found that food conglomerated were bulking out halal products with pork!

[Andy Capp]

You see racism in everything. The Islamic community is 11 times the number of the jewish community. And I dare say that will quickly be 20 or 30 times.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in..._United_Kingdom

Halal is predominantly associated with Islam so that is why. Bigger population = bigger problem.

for me, principally, it's because halal meat is fed into my foodchain, unnoticed, under the back door. For me and my kids to eat, without any kind of consultation whatever. Imagine the shrieks of protest from the snowflake brigade if it was found that food conglomerated were bulking out halal products with pork!

However, at the last count, ~80% of Halal meat sold in the UK is stunned. Kosher is only Kosher if it is non-stunned.

[newres]

However, at the last count, ~80 of Halal meat sold in the UK is stunned. Kosher is only Kosher if it is non-stunned.

Methinks they protest too much. Especially when taken in the context of the other threads and comments on Muslims. All the talk of FGM but no mention of the obscenity of circumcision.

[Turin Machine]

Methinks they protest too much. Especially when taken in the context of the other threads and comments on Muslims. All the talk of FGM but no mention of the obscenity of circumcision.

Nothing wrong with circumcision. Its often done in the west on health grounds, not because it pleases men to do it. FGM is precisely that, a mutilation.

[je suis Charlie]

Also, fgm is illegal here, circumcisions are available on the NHS. Bit of a difference I think.

[SirWilliam]

Methinks they protest too much. Especially when taken in the context of the other threads and comments on Muslims. All the talk of FGM but no mention of the obscenity of circumcision.

Because the post reads " Halal,why should we put up with this?" Had it been " why do we circumcise young boys", then your comment would have an element of relevance.
Halal meat is being consumed by tooth fairy and non believers alike whereas kosher meat is primarily for jewish consumption though not all jews follow strict food laws. I do not wish to consume meat from an animal that has suffered a cruel demise and will go out of my way to source from a retailer who knows where it was slaughtered.
You speak of the comments by certain contributors on here as being racist but if that means putting an end to halal slaughter then count me in because the end certainly justifies the means.

[TallDarkAndHands...]

Because the post reads " Halal,why should we put up with this?" Had it been " why do we circumcise young boys", then your comment would have an element of relevance.
Halal meat is being consumed by tooth fairy and non believers alike whereas kosher meat is primarily for jewish consumption though not all jews follow strict food laws. I do not wish to consume meat from an animal that has suffered a cruel demise and will go out of my way to source from a retailer who knows where it was slaughtered.
You speak of the comments by certain contributors on here as being racist but if that means putting an end to halal slaughter then count me in because the end certainly justifies the means.

Makes you wonder what newres would have done had he been working for Rochdale council a year or two back...

[SirWilliam]

Makes you wonder what newres would have done had he been working for Rochdale council a year or two back...

It happened because people like that work for councils. Like it or not it will all end in tears unless we become a secular society with one set of rules.