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> Looking after children
GMR
post Sep 21 2009, 11:27 AM
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Looking after children.

I was talking to somebody today who looks after children (they've been doing it for years). They told me that if they were going to do it now they wouldn't bother. Too much paperwork, too much bureaucracy, too many checks, where years ago it was easier. Also she was telling me that she had to go on a first Aid Course and it cost her £130 (which was a two day course). The last time she went it was just £50. She is also made to go on other courses because the council/ the law requires it; all of this she has to pay out of her own pocket. She doesn't earn that much in the first place.

She also told me that they are crying out for more child minders. Police checks she understands - even though it will not stop a child being abused - but all the rest, is it necessary? Aren't we throwing the baby out with the bath water? Because it is so expensive and bureaucratic it is turning people away. Is all this crap necessary just to protect children; even though there is no guarantee it will protect children? If we are turning people away from this profession shouldn't we re-look at it again to see if we could simplify things, make it less expensive and at the same time make sure that everyone is police checked.

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Darren
post Sep 21 2009, 11:50 AM
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The question should be "Are you happy leaving your children with someone who has not been checked and doesn't know or can demonstrate basic first aid?"
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Iommi
post Sep 21 2009, 11:56 AM
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QUOTE (Darren @ Sep 21 2009, 12:50 PM) *
The question should be "Are you happy leaving your children with someone who has not been checked and doesn't know or can demonstrate basic first aid?"

I believe First Aid should be on the school curriculum.
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Darren
post Sep 21 2009, 12:04 PM
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So do I, but sadly it's not.
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Chesapeake
post Sep 21 2009, 01:36 PM
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QUOTE (Darren @ Sep 21 2009, 12:50 PM) *
The question should be "Are you happy leaving your children with someone who has not been checked and doesn't know or can demonstrate basic first aid?"


Quite agree.

There is no way I would place my children with someone who would not go on these courses at the very least. I understand totally that the initial outlay for a First Aid course is expensive (it does last for 3 years though) and the paperwork is time-consuming but if you expect people to pay you for looking after their precious prince or princess then please show the comitment to the job and the childs wellfare that is expected. If you are just doing the job (childminding) for the money then you should not be doing it at all!
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Iommi
post Sep 21 2009, 04:03 PM
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I wonder how many parents are skilled in First Aid and are clear to raise kids.
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lordtup
post Sep 21 2009, 04:25 PM
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It does appear that we are becoming paranoid over the whole child care issue .
I have every sympathy with parent's concern , but it is a very tiny percentage of child care centres that have a problem .
It is doubtful that the bureaucracy involved will weed out the rotten apples ( sorry about the mixed metaphor ) but it will add to the operating costs which will have to be met .

Thankfully my family live abroad so the matter is somewhat removed from my immediate vision , but I would put faith in my ability to judge people at first sight and act accordingly if my granddaughter was going to be left with someone who I was not happy about .

Maybe we should place more trust in the fact that there are a lot of genuine people out there who just want to do their job ,and ignore the scaremongering of the tabloid press who see paedophiles round every .


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TallDarkAndHands...
post Sep 21 2009, 04:27 PM
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QUOTE (Iommi @ Sep 21 2009, 05:03 PM) *
I wonder how many parents are skilled in First Aid and are clear to raise kids.


Good point.
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Sarah
post Sep 21 2009, 04:35 PM
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QUOTE (lordtup @ Sep 21 2009, 05:25 PM) *
Maybe we should place more trust in the fact that there are a lot of genuine people out there who just want to do their job ,and ignore the scaremongering of the tabloid press who see paedophiles round every .



Exactly, and a few less soap boxes wouldn't hurt.
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Bartholomew
post Sep 21 2009, 05:19 PM
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QUOTE (Chesapeake @ Sep 21 2009, 02:36 PM) *
Quite agree.

There is no way I would place my children with someone who would not go on these courses at the very least. I understand totally that the initial outlay for a First Aid course is expensive (it does last for 3 years though) and the paperwork is time-consuming but if you expect people to pay you for looking after their precious prince or princess then please show the comitment to the job and the childs wellfare that is expected. If you are just doing the job (childminding) for the money then you should not be doing it at all!

When it comes to the cost of working being more than the remuneration, then it would require those doing it have a private income. This is getting close to the truth for many who are involved in childcare. Whether you like it or not, the vast majority of people work as much for the money as the enjoyment and this is as true in childcare as it is anywhere else.
A First Aid course is not the only cost, there are many others that require not only money but time (try looking at the college courses and see how much time and effort these require) in order to do a job that has become a minefield of bureaucracy and frustration topped with low pay.
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Branston Pickle
post Sep 21 2009, 05:44 PM
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QUOTE (Chesapeake @ Sep 21 2009, 02:36 PM) *
Quite agree.

There is no way I would place my children with someone who would not go on these courses at the very least. I understand totally that the initial outlay for a First Aid course is expensive (it does last for 3 years though) and the paperwork is time-consuming but if you expect people to pay you for looking after their precious prince or princess then please show the comitment to the job and the childs wellfare that is expected. If you are just doing the job (childminding) for the money then you should not be doing it at all!


The problem is, that while the first aid courses are a good thing, Ofsted have introduced a lot of unnecessary and pointless things, such as the Early Years Foundation Stage. This (I think) requires childminders to have to plan exactly what they do all day, as well as monitor each childs "development" and say how the planned activities help to aid that childs "development". This all requires a large amount of time and paperwork to be spent on something rather pointless, and it is this, and other things like it that are putting a lot of people of childminding.
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GMR
post Sep 21 2009, 05:55 PM
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QUOTE
There is no way I would place my children with someone who would not go on these courses at the very least. I understand totally that the initial outlay for a First Aid course is expensive (it does last for 3 years though) and the paperwork is time-consuming but if you expect people to pay you for looking after their precious prince or princess then please show the comitment to the job and the childs wellfare that is expected.


I think people do show 'commitment' when they look after other people's children, but that doesn't mean they should be screwed to the ground and made to pay excessive amounts. People do wish to do this job but because of bureaucracy and the expense on top it is hard for some.



QUOTE
If you are just doing the job (childminding) for the money then you should not be doing it at all!




I also agree that people do it, and should do it, because of the love of the job rather than the love of the money but that doesn't mean that they are rich enough to accept the disproportionate fees blindly.

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GMR
post Sep 21 2009, 05:56 PM
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QUOTE (Darren @ Sep 21 2009, 12:50 PM) *
The question should be "Are you happy leaving your children with someone who has not been checked and doesn't know or can demonstrate basic first aid?"


The problem isn't doing the 'basic' first aid but the disproportionate fees for doing it; compared to what they get for child minding.
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Darren
post Sep 21 2009, 08:07 PM
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Looking at St John (a charity), the 16 hour is £90. For that, it covers:

•Communication and casualty care.
•Managing an incident.
•Looking after yourself and the casualty.
•Adult, child and infant resuscitation.
•Treatment of severe bleeding, chest pain and an unconscious casualty.
•Treatment of choking in adults, children and infants.
•Treatment of fainting, bites and stings, sprains and strains.
•Treatment of asthma, head injuries, chest pains and shock.
•Treatment of severe bleeding and severe burns.
•Recognition and treatment for meningitis, poisons, seizures and stroke.
•Bone, muscle and joint injuries.
•Casualty management - outdoors.
•Emergencies in public.
•Conditions relating to extremes of temperature.
•Recognition and treatment of low blood sugar.
•Role of the first aider in a group setting.

These are essential skills that will be needed for the care and welfare of children left in your care.

Hardly being short changed there. A 4-day HSE course is about £250 and covers only a few bits more.
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GMR
post Sep 21 2009, 08:14 PM
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QUOTE (Darren @ Sep 21 2009, 09:07 PM) *
Looking at St John (a charity), the 16 hour is £90. For that, it covers:

•Communication and casualty care.
•Managing an incident.
•Looking after yourself and the casualty.
•Adult, child and infant resuscitation.
•Treatment of severe bleeding, chest pain and an unconscious casualty.
•Treatment of choking in adults, children and infants.
•Treatment of fainting, bites and stings, sprains and strains.
•Treatment of asthma, head injuries, chest pains and shock.
•Treatment of severe bleeding and severe burns.
•Recognition and treatment for meningitis, poisons, seizures and stroke.
•Bone, muscle and joint injuries.
•Casualty management - outdoors.
•Emergencies in public.
•Conditions relating to extremes of temperature.
•Recognition and treatment of low blood sugar.
•Role of the first aider in a group setting.

These are essential skills that will be needed for the care and welfare of children left in your care.

Hardly being short changed there. A 4-day HSE course is about £250 and covers only a few bits more.



According to the person concerned they had to do it through Newbury College and it had to be a recognised qualification (recognised by the council). If she could have done it cheaper she would have.
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Darren
post Sep 21 2009, 08:23 PM
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West Berk Council say:

"Childminders are required to have completed a basic training course and a 12 hour paediatric first aid course. St Johns, Red Cross etc. run specific courses for childminders to comply with the OFSTED requirements."

http://www.westberks.gov.uk/index.aspx?articleid=7338

£90 is still very cheap for the skill you gain from it.
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GMR
post Sep 21 2009, 08:28 PM
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QUOTE (Darren @ Sep 21 2009, 09:23 PM) *
West Berk Council say:

"Childminders are required to have completed a basic training course and a 12 hour paediatric first aid course. St Johns, Red Cross etc. run specific courses for childminders to comply with the OFSTED requirements."

http://www.westberks.gov.uk/index.aspx?articleid=7338

£90 is still very cheap for the skill you gain from it.


I know she said it was a 2 day course so there might have been something else she had to do. Next time I see her I'll ask.
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Iommi
post Sep 21 2009, 09:11 PM
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QUOTE (Darren @ Sep 21 2009, 09:07 PM) *
These are essential skills that will be needed for the care and welfare of children left in your care. Hardly being short changed there. A 4-day HSE course is about £250 and covers only a few bits more.

I wonder how many parents would pass, yet they are considered able.
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blackdog
post Sep 21 2009, 09:11 PM
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QUOTE (Darren @ Sep 21 2009, 09:23 PM) *
£90 is still very cheap for the skill you gain from it.


And three years later its another £90 to gain those same skills again.

And three years later ....

After a few courses they should change their career and teach first aid courses - it probably pays better.
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GMR
post Sep 21 2009, 10:15 PM
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QUOTE (blackdog @ Sep 21 2009, 10:11 PM) *
And three years later its another £90 to gain those same skills again.

And three years later ....

After a few courses they should change their career and teach first aid courses - it probably pays better.



Good point; doctors don't retake their qualification. It is just a money grabbing exercise.
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