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Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Mar 29 2015, 11:46 AM

With the SNP almost certain to win 59 seats in Scotland they will hold the balance of power.
The English will get well and truly shafted.

Posted by: gel Mar 29 2015, 11:53 AM

As we have for many years since the Barnett Formula was cobbled up; like Income Tax, was meant as a temporary measure
Large numbers are, what can only be described as racist, in their anti English views, yet Camerloon continues to pander to them £directly + indirectly£.

How the EU allows them to only charge the English students university fees, yet every other EU nation NOT? And who funds this...the English as normal.

They've been granted future warship orders yet when independence comes & they reject all things nuclear, they'll presumably have no qualms about continuing to build vessels using nuclear components.

We await with baited breath May 8th to learn our fete.

Posted by: Simon Kirby Mar 29 2015, 12:32 PM

Shafted? How so? If you don't like democracy you could always move to North Korea.

Posted by: Exhausted Mar 29 2015, 12:39 PM

I think you will find that they do not accept immigrants.

Posted by: Simon Kirby Mar 29 2015, 01:04 PM

Hmm, yes. How about Syria, they're quite welcoming I hear.

Posted by: GMR Mar 29 2015, 03:38 PM

Really? On a lot of issues - like Trident - the Labour party (if they win with a minority government) would get Conservative support. Don't forget that Labour won't want to be seen snuggling up to the SNP over everything. The Labour and SNP might work together - on some issues - but will get other support from other parties.

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Mar 29 2015, 06:46 PM

DEMOCRACY = Scottish MPS vote on English matters, English MPS cant vote on Scottish matters.

Does not sound much like democracy to me.

Posted by: user23 Mar 29 2015, 06:50 PM

I think it's very unlilkey that they'll win every seat in Scotland.

Posted by: GMR Mar 29 2015, 06:52 PM

No, but they are predicted to win at least 40 or more.

Posted by: GMR Mar 29 2015, 06:54 PM

Actually they do. The Chinese and one or two other nations are allowed in, if they want to go.

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Mar 29 2015, 06:56 PM

Interesting table...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barnett_formula

This is going to get a whole lot more perverse for the English.

Posted by: Simon Kirby Mar 29 2015, 08:40 PM

British MPs voting on British matters - that's how democracy works. You're creating a false paradox.

Posted by: Simon Kirby Mar 29 2015, 08:44 PM

Other than their particularly attractive brand of benign inclusive nationalism the SNP also have some attractive domestic policies and social values - getting rid of Trident for starters. I think they'd take seats off Labour in England if they were to stand here.

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Mar 29 2015, 09:07 PM

As you have invited me to go to North Korea may I suggest something to you? Move to Scotland. A lot of room up North for allotments and things...

And you are deluded if you think the SNP would win votes in England.

Its a bit like saying tories would win votes in Scotland. A few yes but "fringe" to say the least.

Posted by: user23 Mar 29 2015, 09:28 PM

The Tories did win votes in Scotland. They've got 17 MSPs.

As for SNP votes south of the border, I think a party to the right of Labour would pick up a few seats in England.

Posted by: Simon Kirby Mar 29 2015, 09:56 PM

Interesting that you see them as sitting on the right of Labour. It's not something I'd argue with any enthusiasm as I don't know a great deal about their politics, but I thought the SNP were really rather Socialist in a way that English Labour abandoned under Blair. Of course the comparison isn't easy as it's hard to say what Labour stand for, if anything.

Posted by: On the edge Mar 30 2015, 06:54 AM

Not quite as delusional as you might imagine. In some of the more northern parts of England, where traditional labour was strongest, from what I can make out they'd get a fair amount of support. It's for exactly the same reason why UKIP are also picking up serious support in some Labour constituencies. New Labour destroyed the working man's vision of socialism. Well defined by the old saying that the Labour party owed more to Methodism than Marx.

The Barnet formula was always just a device, but it isn't only example of this type of thing. There are significant differences in funding between English shires and towns - based on what many might consider unfair formulas. In a minor way, we even see it round here. Why did the whole school building budget get blown on St Barts, rather than Park House? Park House premises were just as run down and shabby. A cynic might say political influences at work.

Posted by: Mr Brown Mar 30 2015, 09:10 AM

What is happening in Scotland is really just localism, which as I understand it is just doing things differently in different parts of the Country. If the English wanted free university places or free prescriptions, then they can vote for the party offering these things. Isn't that what it's all about?

Posted by: On the edge Mar 30 2015, 10:35 AM

That about sums it up. In my view, the fight against Scottish independence was really all about the Westminster establishment not wanting to loose central control and therefore power. Thats why we are hearing such shock horror stories about the Welsh NHS operation. IN reality, it's no better or worse than many of the other regional units - but harping on and on and blaming it on Labour is a pretty useful tactic when you want to implement your unpopular change to the nationwide central solution.

Posted by: Simon Kirby Mar 30 2015, 05:05 PM

Agreed.

Posted by: user23 Mar 30 2015, 07:22 PM

You're right (pun intended) I meant left.

They remind me a bit of early 80s Labour, scrapping Trident, raising taxes, etc.

Posted by: Simon Kirby Mar 30 2015, 07:53 PM

I'd say they had a deal more credibility than 80's Labour.

Posted by: user23 Mar 30 2015, 08:03 PM

Not in most of England.

Posted by: Simon Kirby Mar 30 2015, 08:35 PM

Difficult to say, but from here in the South that looks to be popularly true. I suspect though that the further away from London and the South East you go the more sympathy the English have for the SNP's aspirations of localism and self-determination, and the less time they have for the LibLabConKip Home-Counties nonces and their Westminster-centric view of National politics.

Posted by: Strafin Mar 30 2015, 09:38 PM

In my circle so friends, I can say that many admire and appreciate the SNP and their ways. They wouldn't vote for them as inhabitants of England, they are unlikely to offer enough to make up for the Scottish focus. But they are jealous that the Scots have a party like them.

Posted by: On the edge Mar 30 2015, 09:56 PM

I can see where User23 is coming from saying the SNP are to the right of Labour. The party did have a distinct left / right divide. Gaitskell v Bevan essentially. The hard right came later. However, the old right was generally seen by us soft Londoners as 'the home of the professional northerners', dour, thrifty, a spade is a spade strength workers - who didn't go much on us Fabian, white collar office workers! That's why SNP are big in Glasgow, where the likes of Mandleson and Blair do as much as Cameron or Clegg.

Posted by: Berkshirelad Mar 31 2015, 09:46 AM

Exactly so.

However, there is a perception of unfairness in that MPs from constituencies in Scotland will be able to vote as British MPs on matters than only affect England & Wales

Posted by: Berkshirelad Mar 31 2015, 09:48 AM

Can't be racist as both parties are white Caucasian.

Maybe jingoistic, but not racist

Posted by: On the edge Mar 31 2015, 10:10 AM

But as we keep seeing, most matters do affect Britian as a whole. If the 'British' majority wanted to end the Barnett formula, it could - very easily. A majority of English MPs would outvote the Scottish ones.

Similarly, England could vote for no prescription charges and even free further education; but they didn't. In spite of their vote mongering retoric, even the LibDems walked away from that.

Posted by: Simon Kirby Mar 31 2015, 08:13 PM

Yes, there is an anomaly, but TD&H's outrage was over-stated.