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Newbury Today Forum _ Random Rants _ UKIP: racists?
Posted by: GMR Mar 5 2015, 05:44 PM
On another thread, Motormouth said, "If I WERE to Vote, I'd vote UKIP.Not because I'm a racist prick but ..." etc
Why do people accuse UKIP of being racist because they want control over who comes here, when I would say that the EU is actually racist. UKIP's policies want those that will work, from all over the world, not just the EU (which will include the Good, Bad and the Ugly).
Before anybody says it, I know it is down to individual countries who decide who comes into their country, however, with the pressure from the people of those countries (to their governments) about the flood of immigrants their only options would be to stop those from outside the EU. This would include African, Asia, Americas, and Australia. The EU is basically white and only about 4% are black (I read those figures a few years ago). Therefore, the combined policy of outside immigration could curtail Black or Asians from coming into the EU. I would say this was racist and wrong. UKIPs policy concerning immigration/ compared to EU's creates more diversity and racial/ ethnicity than the EU's policy (or individual countries) have. EU's eventual - combined - policies over immigration could dilute certain ethnicities from the EU.
Thoughts.
Posted by: HeatherW Mar 5 2015, 07:10 PM
Wasn't it David Cameron or some Tory that called UKIP gadflies and racists or something like that? From there it took off. I personally think we should have control over our borders and only allow those in that can work and who we need. No matter where from.
What is a fact is that UKIP have opened up the debate on immigration. Before that the mentality was what Gordon Brown created by calling that woman a bigot. Discuss such subjects and you are a racist and a bigot. UKIP won't win, but with any luck (along with the SNP & the Greens) will shake things up.
Posted by: JaneGibbs Mar 5 2015, 07:26 PM
Good points have been made here, but I have my suspicions that all parties have their racist agenda. I am for the EU, but as separate countries working together, not being controlled by a central point (which looks like it is happening at the moment).
Posted by: GMR Mar 5 2015, 07:45 PM
Of course, there are racist in all parties. Nobody is suggesting otherwise. What is the point is what do the parties stand for etc? UKIP are a fairly new party and have made a lot of mistakes. But what they are doing, when the ugly bigots pop their heads above the parapet, they are removed. The media always point out their mistakes (and rightly so) but seem to ignore other parties big mistakes. Did anybody read about the Lib-Dem who was being racist? Or the one who abused women?
Posted by: Simon Kirby Mar 5 2015, 08:08 PM
You're playing semantics GMR. You can argue that UKIP isn't itself racist, it just attracts racists, but that supposes that UKIP exists independently from its membership, and of course it doesn't. It's plausible to think of a party in terms of its manifesto, but what actually matters is what the party supporters think and how they behave.
Posted by: GMR Mar 5 2015, 08:18 PM
You can't control what people think and say. Your arguments could be used against the other parties as well. There are many people within all the parties that have unacceptable views. Parties don't support them. And what party supporters are you referring to? The minority that are bigoted or the majority that are not. I have never met any bigoted UKIP members (that is not saying there isn't any), but I have met plenty of Tories, Lib-Dems that are bigoted/ racist. The UKIP members I have met are not bad. So what ones are you talking about? Those that the press try to find out and expose or the ones that they don't (as they don't have any news worthiness)?
Every time you see a documentary on UKIP they focus on the kooky members (and all parties have them). They never focus on those that are bright and intelligent; young and old, male and female and those of an ethnic background.
The Tories and Labour have both attracted racist people.
I am not playing semantics at all. I think you are blinded by the propaganda of the press.
Posted by: On the edge Mar 5 2015, 08:42 PM
It's not really surprising, their policies are right wing and just as the Tories have often been labeled racist, UKIP is likely to attract the same jibes. It's the same as the left being regarded as communist. Equally, and I appreciate the spot light will be picking on all imperfections, the comments of some of their more zealous supporters don't help. Again, an issue all the other parties have. The answer? Live with it, but prove it wrong.
Posted by: Simon Kirby Mar 5 2015, 08:45 PM
Every time you see a documentary on UKIP they focus on the kooky members (and all parties have them). They never focus on those that are bright and intelligent; young and old, male and female and those of an ethnic background.
The Tories and Labour have both attracted racist people.
I am not playing semantics at all. I think you are blinded by the propaganda of the press.
But I'm not calling UKIP racist, that's your preoccupation.
Posted by: Andy Capp Mar 5 2015, 08:49 PM
I think UKIP provides an environment for soft racists, like the Tory party, but UKIP exist for more reasons than just issues of racial harmony and immigration.
Posted by: Andy1 Mar 6 2015, 02:11 PM
UKIP are making people think about their vote, whether it be changing their usual choice or even making one at all. Regardless of what you think of them, this can only be a good thing surely.
Posted by: GMR Mar 6 2015, 04:26 PM
Actually I didn't call UKIP racist, I questioned why they were called racist by some. You then tried to link or suggest that UKIP are their members, and I asked which members where you referring to or suggesting? All parties are made up of members with different thoughts, but not necessarily accepted by the body has a whole.
Posted by: GMR Mar 6 2015, 04:28 PM
I think Labour and the Lib-Dems can be put into that group as well.
My other point, which nobody commented on, was that the EU (as a collective group) where the ones who were actual racist.
Posted by: GMR Mar 6 2015, 04:30 PM
Exactly. We have a choice at the next election; keep the status quo or move to something different. Keeping the status quo then nothing will change.
Posted by: On the edge Mar 6 2015, 05:30 PM
Just be careful we don't just get a different staus quo. What's on offer from today's trio and UKIP is really just four shades of grey.
Posted by: GMR Mar 6 2015, 05:34 PM
Is it? How do you know?
Posted by: HeatherW Mar 6 2015, 07:39 PM
Reading the main topic I never thought of that, that the EU member countries are or becoming racist by what they will allow or won't allow into their country. I would rather have a mixture of the best than allow any old dog in to this country. We seem to be disintegrating in front of us. I am for immigration, providing the work is there and we have room. All immigration affects our services.
Posted by: Spider Mar 6 2015, 07:50 PM
We will never know what people are thinking but I am sure that they all have their prejudices. The only thing we can go on is what the parties say, believe and how they act. We also can see how their members act and how their parties react to their indiscretions. What I do know and what I've read is that if anybody from UKIP says anything derogatory they are bounced on and removed quickly. That must say something of their thinking? I am still not sure how I will vote at the moment, but one thing is for sure, and being an ex-Lib-Dem, it won't be for that party.
Posted by: Mr Brown Mar 6 2015, 08:04 PM
I think the racism bit is present at certain levels all parties. Let's face it, round here a fair number of people don't appreciate incomers from anywhere. You know, the local houses for local people debate.
Posted by: Andy Capp Mar 6 2015, 08:15 PM
That is a conditional issue. No-one minds incomers, it is the volume that is more of a concern. The local houses for local people is simply a recognition that there is a housing need for people trying to live here.
Posted by: GMR Mar 6 2015, 08:16 PM
Exactly and spot on.
Posted by: HeatherW Mar 6 2015, 08:18 PM
Providing there is work and commendation then, yes.
Posted by: Simon Kirby Mar 6 2015, 09:04 PM
Too true.
Posted by: motormad Mar 8 2015, 06:09 PM
Well this makes sense.
Everyone is predujice. I think admitting that is key. Predujice isn't racism, it's just a stereotype based on some factor about someone wheter that's based on how they talk, walk, dress, drive, look, who they pray to, etc.
Posted by: HeatherW Mar 10 2015, 07:27 PM
Everyone is predujice. I think admitting that is key. Predujice isn't racism, it's just a stereotype based on some factor about someone wheter that's based on how they talk, walk, dress, drive, look, who they pray to, etc.
True, everybody is prejudice, but there is good prejudice and bad prejudice. I am prejudice against extremists and bad car drivers (mostly men, with a few women thrown in). It all depends on what one says and how others respond.
Posted by: motormad Mar 12 2015, 05:24 PM
I'm equally prejudiced against everyone.
Everyone is a pr*ck. And people from the North.
Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Mar 12 2015, 06:22 PM
Gordon Brown "British Jobs for British Workers" - BBC take - fine its fits our Guardian reading leftish agenda and he's looking after the working class
Nigel Farage "British Jobs for British Workers" - BBC take - racist scum - he wants to abolish the race relations laws
LOL - Do they really think people are that thick?
Posted by: Turin Machine Mar 12 2015, 07:05 PM
I've always believed that the best qualified should get the job. There should be no discrimination, positive or negative. English, Polish, white, black, male, female. The best candidate wins.
Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Mar 12 2015, 07:54 PM
...and If you said that as a politician you would be branded a racist.
Lets face it - its all total B****cks
Interesting to note the highest rated responses to the BBC "agenda"
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-31846453
LOL. They closed it within hours of opening it when they realised what the responses were.
Posted by: Andy Capp Mar 12 2015, 07:54 PM
Nigel Farage "British Jobs for British Workers" - BBC take - racist scum - he wants to abolish the race relations laws
LOL - Do they really think people are that thick?
That's not how remember it, Gordon Brown got stick for a sound byte without any practical policy to back it up. Farage wants to remove legislation that will leave the door open for abuse, Gordon Brown had no such initiative.
Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Mar 12 2015, 08:05 PM
And what is "abuse"? Stopping employers from employing the people they want to as they have to fit "quotas"?
Posted by: Andy Capp Mar 12 2015, 08:08 PM
No that isn't abuse; abuse is purposely avoiding employing people because you don't like their nationality or even race.
Posted by: user23 Mar 12 2015, 08:33 PM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-31846453
Posted by: On the edge Mar 12 2015, 08:47 PM
...can't see the issue anyway - what jobs? We don't even build decent trains over here anymore...
Like it or not, we'll have to let some Continentals in, or how else will we be able to learn how to operate our nuclear power stations!
Let's face it, we couldn't even find a Brit. to run the Bank of England!
Yeah, British jobs for British people......can I borrow the brush.
Posted by: Squelchy Mar 13 2015, 04:00 AM
They do say that you can tell a lot about a person by the company they keep.
Whilst it is a given that all parties will have their share of looney tunes supporters, UKIP does seem to have become the party for racists.
Find a racist and there's an above average chance they'll be supporting UKIP in May.
You have to wonder what attracts them.
Personally, I don't think the NHS should be opened up to 'the marketplace', I think legalising handguns is a dumb idea, I don't admire Putin and have no wish to join forces with him, I also don't support fox hunting, fracking, and I think restaurants and pubs smell better without exhaled smoke in them, thus UKIP will have to forego my company.
Posted by: x2lls Mar 13 2015, 07:43 AM
Whilst it is a given that all parties will have their share of looney tunes supporters, UKIP does seem to have become the party for racists.
Find a racist and there's an above average chance they'll be supporting UKIP in May.
You have to wonder what attracts them.
Personally, I don't think the NHS should be opened up to 'the marketplace', I think legalising handguns is a dumb idea, I don't admire Putin and have no wish to join forces with him, I also don't support fox hunting, fracking, and I think restaurants and pubs smell better without exhaled smoke in them, thus UKIP will have to forego my company.
You do work for the BBC don't you? What utter utter drivel.
Posted by: Rusty Bullet Mar 13 2015, 08:57 AM
Wow! Touched a nerve did he?
Are you saying racists aren't attratcted to UKIP?
I think Squelchy's right in the observation that all parties attract some daft buggers but UKIP seems to be a magnet for racists. He or she wondered what it was that attracted them. The rest of the points made are also UKIP policies.
So what part is drivel?
Please try and answer.
Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Mar 13 2015, 08:54 PM
Are you saying racists aren't attratcted to UKIP?
I think Squelchy's right in the observation that all parties attract some daft buggers but UKIP seems to be a magnet for racists. He or she wondered what it was that attracted them. The rest of the points made are also UKIP policies.
So what part is drivel?
Please try and answer.
I'll still be voting UKIP. Call me racist. I know I'm not.
I don't give a sh!t what people tell me to do or which way I should vote.
I hope all people feel the same and are not indoctrinated by the cr@p they read in the press and hear on the BBC (aka Labour Party Broadcasting Corporation)
Posted by: x2lls Mar 13 2015, 09:27 PM
Are you saying racists aren't attratcted to UKIP?
I think Squelchy's right in the observation that all parties attract some daft buggers but UKIP seems to be a magnet for racists. He or she wondered what it was that attracted them. The rest of the points made are also UKIP policies.
So what part is drivel?
Please try and answer.
That's exactly it, 'seems to'. In all the years I have had the privilege to vote, I have never seen such a blatant surge of anti shown by the media. Read and listen to what is said by Farage, then read and see the interpretation provided by good ol' papers,tv and politicians.
The rest of Squelchy's comments follow suit.
Posted by: x2lls Mar 13 2015, 09:28 PM
I don't give a sh!t what people tell me to do or which way I should vote.
I hope all people feel the same and are not indoctrinated by the cr@p they read in the press and hear on the BBC (aka Labour Party Broadcasting Corporation)
Exactly, sod the sheeple
Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Mar 13 2015, 09:30 PM
The rest of Squelchy's comments follow suit.
Could not agree more. People listen to what is "reported" but don't bother to actually read what has been said. Its all a bit George Orwell.
Posted by: x2lls Mar 13 2015, 09:46 PM
Quite a following, it 'seems'!
https://www.facebook.com/UKIP/posts/915135718508319
Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Mar 13 2015, 10:30 PM
https://www.facebook.com/UKIP/posts/915135718508319
Just had a Benyon leaflet through the door. Remember to wrap up your cheese you paupers. I've got £110 Million...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/conservative/10021045/Richard-Benyons-best-by-date-is-surely-behind-him.html
Want to vote for someone that does not have a clue what it's like to live in the real world? Vote Benyon.
Posted by: Rusty Bullet Mar 14 2015, 10:26 AM
The rest of Squelchy's comments follow suit.
Excellent. So those are NOT UKIP policies then? And the papers, tv, and politicians are all wrong. Paranoia anyone?
Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Mar 14 2015, 04:07 PM
The thing is Rusty a lot of people have lost faith in the "system".
That's why we are voting UKIP. Call it a two fingered salute if you like.
Posted by: user23 Mar 14 2015, 05:24 PM
That's why we are voting UKIP. Call it a two fingered salute if you like.
Posted by: Turin Machine Mar 14 2015, 05:29 PM
Last defense of the intellectually bankrupt, simply call everybody "racist" or "Nazi", nice one. WBC must be so proud.
Posted by: Simon Kirby Mar 14 2015, 05:37 PM
User wasn't calling everyone racist, only racists, and you can't fault him on that. Just because racists vote UKIP that doesn't make UKIP voters racists - it's like saying my "dog has four legs, cats have four legs, my dog's a cat".
Posted by: gel Mar 14 2015, 05:44 PM
and your Airedale has politically correct colours too ie Black and Tan <brown>
Posted by: Simon Kirby Mar 14 2015, 05:50 PM
Out of interest, what is it that UKIP wants to be able to do which is currently prevented by the race relations legislation?
Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Mar 14 2015, 05:58 PM
So you are calling me a racist? Interesting... Anyone who does not fit into your "system" is racist?
Saddo. That's all I can say.
Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Mar 14 2015, 06:10 PM
Of course all parties have the "nutter" element
http://ukmediawatch.org/2014/09/24/guardian-silent-about-labour-candidates-suspension-for-racist-tweets/
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/04/22/tory-councillor-john-cherry-quits-_n_3129770.html
http://politicalscrapbook.net/2012/01/lib-dem-anti-islam-candidate/
Racist scum. Or just a fringe element of a party that does not quite get reported in the same light as a "UKIP" PPP? 
Posted by: x2lls Mar 15 2015, 12:15 AM
Yes it is, but then I have too, and going by those I have spoken with, and witnessed on here it appears there are a great many of the population who have finally been given a chance to, in an electoral way, shove two fingers at the morons who run this country.
Where's Sparty when you need 'im?
Posted by: Mr Brown Mar 15 2015, 08:50 AM
Spot on; very George Orwell as you say. I wonder just how many have actually read, let alone understood 1984. All the UKIP tidal wave demonstrates is that the 'Party' still controls the media which still controls the proles.
Posted by: user23 Mar 15 2015, 10:02 AM
Saddo. That's all I can say.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Berkshire_Council_election,_2011#Purley_on_Thames.
Where are you getting your information from about "a great many of the population", the media?
Posted by: blackdog Mar 15 2015, 12:02 PM
That certainly wasn't the case in the only election we've had in this area, this year.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Berkshire_Council_election,_2011#Purley_on_Thames.
Where are you getting your information from about "a great many of the population", the media?
I'd say that 11% is a great many people - several million voters if extrapolated over all the UK. It won't win many seats but it's a lot of people.
That said it is standard practice to claim the majority are behind your ideas - whichever party you represent. UKIP remind me a bit of the Social Democrats - a huge surge of interest in a new party for a few years. Interest in the SocDems waned after a few years it will be interesting to see how UKIP lasts.
Posted by: x2lls Mar 16 2015, 10:29 PM
That certainly wasn't the case in the only election we've had in this area, this year.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Berkshire_Council_election,_2011#Purley_on_Thames.
Where are you getting your information from about "a great many of the population", the media?
Good enough for you?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-31906154
Posted by: On the edge Mar 17 2015, 06:48 AM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-31906154
Frankly no. The OFCOM ruling is seriously flawed and not based on anything other than supposition. I'm not a Green, and certainly not green enough to believe this.
Posted by: JaneGibbs Mar 20 2015, 07:39 PM
I think there is a smattering of racism in all parties. I saw the news today where a UKIP member was quickly suspended for wrong doing. They seem to be subjected to nutty people, but at least they act quickly to remove them. Maybe they are just a naive party starting out and this is what you get when wanting to play with the big boys.
Posted by: GMR Mar 20 2015, 08:01 PM
Yes and they acted quickly by suspending her. If you look at the big parties they just fudge it but never get the proper coverage. There is a UKIP bias in the media.
Posted by: user23 Mar 20 2015, 08:15 PM
Posted by: GMR Mar 20 2015, 08:20 PM
bias and coverage are two different things. It also depends on what you mean my coverage. Not all coverage is positive, most is negative.
Posted by: user23 Mar 20 2015, 08:23 PM
Posted by: GMR Mar 20 2015, 08:26 PM
Exactly. "A further 149 complainants accused the BBC of being unfairly anti-Ukip" Isn't that what I originally said?
Posted by: Turin Machine Apr 10 2015, 04:28 PM
And it's not just Nigel's lot either,
"A Labour Party candidate has been forced to apologise after it emerged he wrote a blog posting in which he said anyone who flies an England flag is a "simpleton or casual racist".
Huw Thomas, the Labour candidate for Ceredigion, said during World Cup that cars flying the England flag deserve to be vandalised.
It comes after Emily Thornberry, the former shadow Attorney General, was sacked by Ed Miliband last year after appearing to mock a family's terrace home draped in England flags.
Mr Thomas was a student in 2006 when he wrote a blog posting in which he said he was "completely sickened" by the number of England flags in Wales."
Will the madness ever end?? 
Posted by: Andy Capp Apr 10 2015, 05:58 PM
To me, flags have the same impact as religion; tear them down, they are an anachronism and not necessary.
Posted by: Petra Apr 10 2015, 06:25 PM
Mr Capp,
There is only on flag that is important in the 21st Century and that is the European Union Flag (at least in Europe) that represents those that are dedicated to building a future for all, and not just the few.
Yours,
Petra
Posted by: Simon Kirby Apr 10 2015, 07:04 PM
That seems rather intolerant to me.
I can understand you position on flags to some degree as overly-demonstrative self-expression, though I'd say that flag-flying is traditional enough and all part of life's rich tapestry. I'd have no objection to anyone flying a national or county flag, though the tautology of English flags with "England" written across them grates.
As for "tearing down" religion, I don't think you could, I suspect myth, magic, and belief are inseparable aspects of self-awareness, and while as a humanist I believe that our common humanity is all we need to establish moral and societal values, as an atheist I recognise that religion is doing nothing more than just that, albeit with bells and smells.
Posted by: Andy Capp Apr 10 2015, 07:43 PM
I can understand you position on flags to some degree as overly-demonstrative self-expression, though I'd say that flag-flying is traditional enough and all part of life's rich tapestry. I'd have no objection to anyone flying a national or county flag, though the tautology of English flags with "England" written across them grates.
As for "tearing down" religion, I don't think you could, I suspect myth, magic, and belief are inseparable aspects of self-awareness, and while as a humanist I believe that our common humanity is all we need to establish moral and societal values, as an atheist I recognise that religion is doing nothing more than just that, albeit with bells and smells.
I would agree; flags are colourful, but I fail to see their value outside of dominion. I'm English by chance. I don't deserve it, I was given it, So what; England has a heritage, but other than a certain amount of genetic resemblance, I have nothing to do with its history. Just because we invented all that stuff and created the modern era, modern America, etc, doesn't mean I deserve to be associated with that.
It is childish, and like religion, it is a source and a weapon for the cruel to asset their dominance.
Warning: A certain amount of hyperbole may have been employed in this post!
Posted by: Andy Capp Apr 10 2015, 07:44 PM
There is only on flag that is important in the 21st Century and that is the European Union Flag (at least in Europe) that represents those that are dedicated to building a future for all, and not just the few.
Yours,
Petra
TROLL ALERT.
Posted by: Simon Kirby Apr 10 2015, 08:31 PM
It is childish, and like religion, it is a source and a weapon for the cruel to asset their dominance.
I don't agree. Flags celebrate identity, and for sure sometimes that identity is repugnant, but it's the identity that is at issue, not the flag. I have no problem with someone flying a national or county flag if they want to assert and celebrate their belonging, belonging is a good thing.
Posted by: Andy Capp Apr 10 2015, 09:10 PM
I don't have any problem with it, I just see it for what I think it means: 'Flag waving' is one step closer to nationalism, which is one step closer to prejudice and bigotry. I feel, like in the song Imagine by John Lennon, that the world might be a little better place if we threw away all our flags, and I mean that metaphorically more than literally.
Perhaps what I mean is patriotism, more than celebrating with flags, but I think they are interlinked.
Posted by: CrackerJack Apr 10 2015, 09:27 PM
Posted by: Simon Kirby Apr 10 2015, 09:53 PM
Perhaps what I mean is patriotism, more than celebrating with flags, but I think they are interlinked.
Well, the notion of universal peace is a good one:
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace...
But I don't accept that peace depends on us all being the same, I rather feel that peace follows from us all accepting our differences.
Posted by: Simon Kirby Apr 10 2015, 09:56 PM
Yes, I'm very happy to identify with that flag - and I love the nod to Iwo Jima.
Posted by: Andy Capp Apr 10 2015, 10:05 PM
I think peace comes from not feeling threatened, but I am not asserting that we must all be the same; I think the message is: throw away the strawman that society has developed that helps to divide us: 'flags' and religion are man made, and to some extent, are a matter of choice; where as where we are born isn't, well not the bornee's choice anyway.
Posted by: Andy Capp Apr 10 2015, 10:13 PM
How do you identify with that flag? Or are you simply celebrating diversity? I'd say it is to celebrate something as a result of holding on to past repression. Why can't we be gay, straight, lesbian, etc, without making a song and dance about it?
Posted by: Simon Kirby Apr 10 2015, 10:25 PM
We might one day be able to do just that, but right now there is still significant discrimination against LGBT people and that makes it necessary to assert gay pride - just today, news that the Vatican appears to have rejected the appointment of the French ambassador because he is gay, and gay couples, even practising Christians, are still not free to marry in their parish church, although practising Satanists can marry in their parish church as of right as long as they're straight.
Posted by: Andy Capp Apr 10 2015, 10:43 PM
I'm not sure it is gay pride that has brought this about, as such; more that modern communications and education has opened the eyes of the world - that and disco music
Still a long way to go though.
Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Apr 11 2015, 09:58 PM
Would the 18 and 19 year old lads from Iwo Jima that raised the original flag agree? Or is it just WRONG to say that?
Posted by: Turin Machine Apr 11 2015, 10:33 PM
There is only on flag that is important in the 21st Century and that is the European Union Flag (at least in Europe) that represents those that are dedicated to building a future for all, and not just the few.
Yours,
Petra
Duh rating = 10
Posted by: Turin Machine Apr 11 2015, 10:36 PM
Is there nothing the lefty libs won't stoop to to promulgate their agenda?
Posted by: newres Apr 12 2015, 09:33 AM
There is only on flag that is important in the 21st Century and that is the European Union Flag (at least in Europe) that represents those that are dedicated to building a future for all, and not just the few.
Yours,
Petra
WOW! I actually agree with that!
Posted by: Andy Capp Apr 12 2015, 10:23 AM
Shame though that is is cobblers.
Posted by: On the edge Apr 12 2015, 12:35 PM
Care to elaborate?
Posted by: GMR Apr 12 2015, 03:25 PM
Is it? We are going down the road where the European flag supersedes our own.
Posted by: Mr Brown Apr 12 2015, 03:46 PM
I can quite see why coming out of Europe is popular I also think there woukd be consequences. I think its also quite likely that a referendum would come up with a result like Scotland; not a decisive majority. That would inevitably mean the stay ins would keep the in/out debate going; on and on and on.
Posted by: Simon Kirby Apr 12 2015, 05:53 PM
Last Night of the Proms: there goes the neighbourhood...
Posted by: GMR Apr 12 2015, 06:05 PM
You are obviously a Petra fan. She must be your number one fan
Posted by: Simon Kirby Apr 12 2015, 06:16 PM
In point of fact it's the flag of the Council of Europe, the European Union simply co-opted it - those 12 stars, they're the 12 founding nations and one of those is Blighty. The flag is used to represent all European peoples irrespective of their membership of the EU - take the Ryder Cup for example:
Posted by: GMR Apr 12 2015, 06:18 PM
Britain wasn't a founding father. Besides, it doesn't change what I said.
Posted by: user23 Apr 12 2015, 06:31 PM
Posted by: GMR Apr 12 2015, 06:39 PM
The ECSC was created first. Following its proposal in 1950 in the Schuman Declaration, Belgium, France, Italy, Luxembourg, the Netherlands, and West Germany came together to sign the Treaty of Paris in 1951 which established the Community. Which I was referring to. Britain joined later (in the 70s), not before France tried to stop them joining.
Posted by: user23 Apr 12 2015, 06:41 PM
Posted by: GMR Apr 12 2015, 06:43 PM
Are you saying what I said is incorrect?
Posted by: GMR Apr 12 2015, 06:50 PM
Austria Vienna 1 Jan 1995 8,451,900 83,855
Belgium Brussels Founder 11,161,600 30,528
Bulgaria Sofia 1 Jan 2007 7,284,600 110,994
Croatia Zagreb 1 Jul 2013 4,262,100 56,594
Cyprus Nicosia 1 May 2004 865,900 9,251
Czech Republic Prague 1 May 2004 10,516,100 78,866
Denmark Copenhagen 1 Jan 1973 5,602,600 43,075
Estonia Tallinn 1 May 2004 1,324,800 45,227
Finland Helsinki 1 Jan 1995 5,426,700 338,424
France Paris Founder 65,633,200 674,843
Germany Berlin Founder[d] 80,523,700 357,021
Greece Athens 1 Jan 1981 11,062,500 131,990
Hungary Budapest 1 May 2004 9,908,800 93,030
Ireland Dublin 1 Jan 1973 4,591,100 70,273
Italy Rome Founder 59,685,200 301,338
Latvia Riga 1 May 2004 2,023,800 64,589
Lithuania Vilnius 1 May 2004 2,971,900 65,200
Luxembourg Luxembourg Founder 537,000 2,586.4
Malta Valletta 1 May 2004 421,400 316
Netherlands Amsterdam Founder 16,779,600 41,543
Poland Warsaw 1 May 2004 38,533,300 312,685
Portugal Lisbon 1 Jan 1986 10,487,300 92,390
Romania Bucharest 1 Jan 2007 20,057,500 238,391
Slovakia Bratislava 1 May 2004 5,410,800 49,035
Slovenia Ljubljana 1 May 2004 2,058,800 20,273
Spain Madrid 1 Jan 1986 46,704,300 504,030
Sweden Stockholm 1 Jan 1995 9,555,900 449,964
United Kingdom London 1 Jan 1973 63,730,100 243,610
Founders are marked founders by its name.
Posted by: user23 Apr 12 2015, 06:54 PM
Posted by: GMR Apr 12 2015, 06:57 PM
Have I? Look what I was originally talking about.
Through successive enlargements, the Union has grown from the six founding states — Belgium, France, West Germany, Italy, Luxembourg, and the Netherlands — to the current 28. That is what I was talking about originally.
Posted by: Simon Kirby Apr 12 2015, 07:01 PM
You're confusing the Council of Europe which the United Kingdom jointly created in 1949 with the signing of the http://conventions.coe.int/Treaty/en/Treaties/Html/001.htm with the European Union as is, or the European Economic Community as it was when Britain joined in 1973. The flag that you were complaining about is the flag of the Council of Europe which has been co-opted by the European Union. The http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Convention_on_Human_Rights was also a creation of the Council of Europe and UK law has been subject to the Convention and within the jurisprudence of the European Court of Human Rights in Strasbourg since Blighty signed in 1951.
Posted by: GMR Apr 12 2015, 07:04 PM
Yes, I know that, but that wasn't what I was talking about. Read the list above, that was what I was talking about.
Posted by: Simon Kirby Apr 12 2015, 07:13 PM
*never mind*
Posted by: Andy Capp Apr 13 2015, 10:17 AM
You can't educate pork.
Posted by: GMR Apr 13 2015, 10:56 AM
Is that why you are not educated then?
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