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> Sandleford row erupts again following letter to Wash Common residents
blackdog
post Dec 28 2014, 11:58 AM
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QUOTE (user23 @ Dec 28 2014, 11:35 AM) *
2) People didn't want an Eastern bypass as it would remove the last green space between Newbury and Thatcham, effectively creating one urban area.


I fear the choice is between a relief road between Newbury and Thatcham (unlikely) or housing estates (probable). I can't see the green space surviving north of the river.

However, the eastern ring road should go east of Thatcham - many have been calling for elements of this road to solve existing problems like the Thatcham rail crossing and the Burger King roundabout air pollution.
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Andy Capp
post Dec 28 2014, 12:00 PM
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This would suggest that the local councils should resist every large building project until the government is prepared to cough up some more cash, or S106 is made more workable.
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blackdog
post Dec 28 2014, 01:01 PM
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QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Dec 28 2014, 12:00 PM) *
This would suggest that the local councils should resist every large building project until the government is prepared to cough up some more cash, or S106 is made more workable.

You seem to be labouring under the impression that local councils have the power to stop large projects - they don't. If a council turns down a project the developer can appeal to the Planning Inspectorate who will appoint an Inspector who will review the case and make the final decision. Should WBC decide to stop approving large projects an Inspector would simply take over the decision making process and is far more likely to approve projects than WBC.
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MontyPython
post Dec 28 2014, 01:03 PM
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QUOTE (user23 @ Dec 28 2014, 11:35 AM) *
....

Whilst some politicians like yourself break arguments down purely into figures, others listen to the views of the people and base their views on both.

...


Whilst some politicians like yourself break arguments down purely into figures, NTC/WBC listen to the views of the people and base their views on both and go with the ones that fit the plan they want to do.

Corrected for accuracy to reflect what counts for democracy in Newbury!
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NWNREADER
post Dec 28 2014, 01:25 PM
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QUOTE (Exhausted @ Dec 27 2014, 08:09 PM) *
There is no way that this application will struggle. It's a council development in all but name. This will be nursed through to conclusion. There might be a bit of blood spilt on the carpet but that will be quickly cleared up and will be presented to the nodding councillors with a recommendation for approval.


The 'struggle' I refer to is based on the fact the infrastructure at present does not support the traffic plan. If the Council did not 'object' then many other plans would use the precedent. All the '106' type schemes only come in after the building plan is well on the way. Here a visionary benefactor clears the way, purely for the community benefit, by paying WBC to improve a road layout. That project does not appear on any WBC highways plan I know of, and it would take years for it to be built under usual protocols. This is a convenient way to get a plan 'approvable'.
We should applaud such largesse by a local citizen.
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user23
post Dec 28 2014, 02:04 PM
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QUOTE (blackdog @ Dec 28 2014, 11:58 AM) *
However, the eastern ring road should go east of Thatcham - many have been calling for elements of this road to solve existing problems like the Thatcham rail crossing and the Burger King roundabout air pollution.
Yes, an Eastern route crossing the A4 somewhere near Colthrop and running South to the other side of the railway crossing would seem sensible, but would need a great deal of funding from Central Government to happen.
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On the edge
post Dec 28 2014, 03:49 PM
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The trouble is Newbury isn't a quaint old market town anymore, if ever it was. It's also no longer 1955, which many of our Councillors seem to forget. The age of steam trains, warm beer and cycling home from work had long gone. You might also have noticed all those nice farm animals don't pop into town every Thursday - all that's left are a few raggedy stalls selling the same stuff as Tesco but in less congenial surroundings. Even Camp Hopson has sold out. Two choices then, either embrace and properly plan for and support new development and revitalisation or decline into a dormitory town for people who can't afford Reading or Basingstoke.


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user23
post Dec 28 2014, 04:14 PM
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QUOTE (On the edge @ Dec 28 2014, 03:49 PM) *
The trouble is Newbury isn't a quaint old market town anymore, if ever it was.
A visit to the Newbury Past and Present Facebook Page will show you many people still think it is.
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Simon Kirby
post Dec 28 2014, 04:50 PM
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QUOTE (user23 @ Dec 28 2014, 11:35 AM) *
You plan fails on two counts:

1) People like the market as they feel it retains Newbury's status as a "small market town".

2) People didn't want an Eastern bypass as it would remove the last green space between Newbury and Thatcham, effectively creating one urban area.

Whilst some politicians like yourself break arguments down purely into figures, others listen to the views of the people and base their views on both.

Thank goodness we don't live in Simon's Scroogetown, a locality where the market has been closed down, Christmas lights abandoned, graveyards privatised and civic buildings sold off for short term gain.

Where's your evidence for telling me what other people? I'm not alone in asking for a parish poll to gauge support for tax spending, but you know very well that's not how things are run around here. I would like to see people given enough information to make informed choices, and for those choices to count.

Do you suppose that the tax-paying parishioners actually know that they're being taxed to pay for the town council to run our miserable charter market, and do you think they would agree to that if they knew that other towns have better more vibrant markets which are run well enough that they actually turn a profit?

And do you suppose that Newbury's tax-paying parishioners would agree to being taxed to pay for the Christmas lights if they knew that lights in other towns are provided by the town's traders because it pays them to invest in a bit of merriment to get the punters spending. Newbury BID now manage the lights, but the town council still hand over our tax, and we never saw any saving on the £12,000 of staff costs that the town council used to attribute to the Christmas Lights as that officer time was just absorbed the other busy-work that makes or town council such an administrative behemoth.

And how do you suppose the Newbury tax-payer would choose if given a choice between essential public services, or the civic prestige of a ceremonial mayor rattling round in a Gothic mansion.

We will never get adequate infrastructure in Newbury, not because it is unaffordable, but because Newbury's local government is self-serving and the money gets squittered away on the vanity of fools.


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user23
post Dec 28 2014, 04:58 PM
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QUOTE (Simon Kirby @ Dec 28 2014, 04:50 PM) *
Where's your evidence for telling me what other people?
Being part of social media groups, pages and other channels that tens of thousands of local people are members of, for the past few years.
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Biker1
post Dec 28 2014, 05:07 PM
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QUOTE (blackdog @ Dec 28 2014, 12:58 PM) *
I fear the choice is between a relief road between Newbury and Thatcham.
However, the eastern ring road should go east of Thatcham - many have been calling for elements of this road to solve existing problems like the Thatcham rail crossing and the Burger King roundabout air pollution.

You folks crack me up!
This was proposed 20 years ago but most were in favour of the destructive (to nature) |Western Route so that's what you've now got.
If it hasn't been the promised miraculous saviour to Newbury's / Thatcham's traffic problems as predicted by some then it's too darn late!!
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Exhausted
post Dec 28 2014, 06:49 PM
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QUOTE (Biker1 @ Dec 28 2014, 05:07 PM) *
You folks crack me up! This was proposed 20 years ago but most were in favour of the destructive (to nature) |Western Route so that's what you've now got. If it hasn't been the promised miraculous saviour to Newbury's / Thatcham's traffic problems as predicted by some then it's too darn late!!


We need an Urban ring road. What the western or eastern route was always intended to be was a by-pass. Trunking the A34. It was coincidental that it did resolve the problems of Newbury's traffic and it has been a "miraculous saviour to Newbury's traffic problems". I doubt that even an eastern route would have had any effect on Thatcham's traffic as it would have gone North South.

QUOTE (user23 @ Dec 28 2014, 02:04 PM) *
Yes, an Eastern route crossing the A4 somewhere near Colthrop and running South to the other side of the railway crossing would seem sensible, but would need a great deal of funding from Central Government to happen.


Can't see how that would be a Newbury ring road. It might get the bridge over the railway at Thatcham but would be much too far out to be the smaller urban road that will provide relief for the proposed developments.




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Exhausted
post Dec 28 2014, 07:07 PM
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QUOTE (user23 @ Dec 28 2014, 04:58 PM) *
Being part of social media groups, pages and other channels that tens of thousands of local people are members of, for the past few years.


If you mean facebook, half the people who post on that don't know the difference between NTC and WBC and of course the "tens of thousands" is perhaps poetic licence as far as Newbury related persons are concerned.




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On the edge
post Dec 28 2014, 08:21 PM
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QUOTE (user23 @ Dec 28 2014, 04:14 PM) *
A visit to the Newbury Past and Present Facebook Page will show you many people still think it is.


Have a look at where a good few of them live....the States, or in other parts of the Country! About 20 odd people is hardly 'many'! Even so, I wonder just how many would really want to return to 'good ole Newbury' - the squalid slum courts off Northbrook Street, bucket sanitation in damp insanitary cottages in the not far out areas, traffic so thick in Northbrook Street and on the A4 mid summer cross town trips a nightmare by car. The weird thing is that this lot bemoan the loss of the old market town but shop at Tesco on the retail park and more often than not work outside the Town.


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Mr Brown
post Dec 28 2014, 08:45 PM
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I have to say, there seemed to a a fair number against the 'brown field' development where I presently live. Objections have also been raised about the proposed flats to be built near the station. It's Catch 22 round here!
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user23
post Dec 28 2014, 08:48 PM
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QUOTE (On the edge @ Dec 28 2014, 08:21 PM) *
Have a look at where a good few of them live....the States, or in other parts of the Country! About 20 odd people is hardly 'many'! Even so, I wonder just how many would really want to return to 'good ole Newbury' - the squalid slum courts off Northbrook Street, bucket sanitation in damp insanitary cottages in the not far out areas, traffic so thick in Northbrook Street and on the A4 mid summer cross town trips a nightmare by car. The weird thing is that this lot bemoan the loss of the old market town but shop at Tesco on the retail park and more often than not work outside the Town.
A good few thousand live in Newbury or Thatcham, and whilst you might look down your nose and sneer at their views and lifestyle, I reckon they're more representative of general opinion in the area than the ten or so regulars on this forum.

Don't take my word for it though, put it to the test. Suggest closing down the market or selling off the town hall and see how it goes down.
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Simon Kirby
post Dec 28 2014, 09:11 PM
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QUOTE (user23 @ Dec 28 2014, 08:48 PM) *
A good few thousand live in Newbury or Thatcham, and whilst you might look down your nose and sneer at their views and lifestyle, I reckon they're more representative of general opinion in the area than the ten or so regulars on this forum.

Don't take my word for it though, put it to the test. Suggest closing down the market or selling off the town hall and see how it goes down.

Can you posts some links to where these people hang out?

For the record, I've not particularly suggested closing down the market, what I've suggested is ending the town council's management and tax-payer subsidy. Evidence from other towns is that vibrant financially viable markets are possible if they are well managed, and lifting the dead hand of the town council may well see the market thrive - but if it doesn't, then yes, I'd be happy to see it go.


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MontyPython
post Dec 28 2014, 09:31 PM
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QUOTE (user23 @ Dec 28 2014, 04:14 PM) *
A visit to the Newbury Past and Present Facebook Page will show you many people still think it is.


Some others think Facebook is full of trash reading UKIP supporters.

Me thinks you choose your support just so as to support WBC's viewpoint.

According to WBC people didn't want to build on the Park so the Parkway bridge that the public wanted made to way was kept as a single carriageway.

Now to create a spur to Nick's pet project in Faraday road the park will be built on and feck the public's viewpoint.

Still the "Club" get what they want and they can send a lacky out to spread the word and bullsh!t as usual. Bonus payments and trebles all round!
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On the edge
post Dec 28 2014, 09:37 PM
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QUOTE (user23 @ Dec 28 2014, 08:48 PM) *
A good few thousand live in Newbury or Thatcham, and whilst you might look down your nose and sneer at their views and lifestyle, I reckon they're more representative of general opinion in the area than the ten or so regulars on this forum.

Don't take my word for it though, put it to the test. Suggest closing down the market or selling off the town hall and see how it goes down.


There are twelve hundred on this forum, have a look. You've made that classic mistake. The Facebook page does as you say have a few thousand 'members' BUT only the same old few contribute! If you took their views as representative of the five odd thousand non active, yes, we do have a problem. It's like assuming that the seventy five percent who don't turn out in local elections must be really happy with their local council.

Yes, I suspect I coukd get people to vote away the town hall - if a decent proposal was put forward. Equally with the market, what do you want? A big cut in mental health budget or subsidise a market. I don't think you'll find Borough Market a drain on Southwark's charge payers.


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Simon Kirby
post Dec 28 2014, 09:56 PM
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QUOTE (On the edge @ Dec 28 2014, 09:37 PM) *
There are twelve hundred on this forum, have a look. You've made that classic mistake. The Facebook page does as you say have a few thousand 'members' BUT only the same old few contribute! If you took their views as representative of the five odd thousand non active, yes, we do have a problem. It's like assuming that the seventy five percent who don't turn out in local elections must be really happy with their local council.

Yes, I suspect I coukd get people to vote away the town hall - if a decent proposal was put forward. Equally with the market, what do you want? A big cut in mental health budget or subsidise a market. I don't think you'll find Borough Market a drain on Southwark's charge payers.

Quite so. The responsible thing to do would be for the town council to work up some of these suggestions into costed proposals and then put the ideas to the community they are supposed to serve.

The town hall is just office accommodation, I doubt whether the average precept-payer is much bothered whether Mr Troop sits behind a desk in a Gothic Mansion or in the office of a community hall, but let's costs the options and put it to the vote. Likewise the charter market, cost the options and let's take a vote on it. Likewise the mayor and the civic mumbo-jumbo, let the precept-payer know what that all costs and ask them if that's really where they'd prioritise their tax being spent. Likewise allotments, we know other councils provide their service at no cost to the precept-payer, so the responsible thing to do is investigate the options and then put it to the precept payer.

The Lib Dems bang-on about a lack of openness and consultation, so show me the money!


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