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SirWilliam
post Jul 9 2017, 07:07 PM
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cumbria-40547691

So some bright spark has decided that our beloved Lake District should be given UNESCO status.

Now I am all for conservation but history shows us that when we place these things in the hands of people who live miles away then it is a recipe for disaster, ( a bit like the pricks in Westminster ). Most people only visit the lakes in summer but it is a landscape forged by millenniums of weather, ( usually VERY wet ), hill farming and a singular lack of human intervention.

I do like the passing reference to Stonehenge and, as anyone who has had the misfortune to drive down that way of late will testify, what a pig's ear they have achieved with that.


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On the edge
post Jul 9 2017, 08:09 PM
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QUOTE (SirWilliam @ Jul 9 2017, 08:07 PM) *
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cumbria-40547691

So some bright spark has decided that our beloved Lake District should be given UNESCO status.

Now I am all for conservation but history shows us that when we place these things in the hands of people who live miles away then it is a recipe for disaster, ( a bit like the pricks in Westminster ). Most people only visit the lakes in summer but it is a landscape forged by millenniums of weather, ( usually VERY wet ), hill farming and a singular lack of human intervention.

I do like the passing reference to Stonehenge and, as anyone who has had the misfortune to drive down that way of late will testify, what a pig's ear they have achieved with that.


Bit of a circular argument there Sir, a good few would claim that in such places it's the locals wot do the damage. 'Just a few extra square feet in my cafe' and 'desperately needed accommodation for my family' and 'social housing for local poor people'. What's so wrong with market forces here? Let the customers decide.


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SirWilliam
post Jul 10 2017, 10:12 AM
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QUOTE (On the edge @ Jul 9 2017, 09:09 PM) *
Bit of a circular argument there Sir, a good few would claim that in such places it's the locals wot do the damage. 'Just a few extra square feet in my cafe' and 'desperately needed accommodation for my family' and 'social housing for local poor people'. What's so wrong with market forces here? Let the customers decide.



This is why I cited Stonehenge as the model. When it was a few sarsen stones in a field visited by unruly school kids and a few odd bods who called themselves Druids / new age travellers etc it had little or no impact on either the local economy or traffic. Then the boys in beige built a monstrosity called a visitors centre, closed off a main road and caused a continual traffic jam which they propose rectifying by building a multi-million pound, ( read taxpayer footed ), tunnel. The impact on the area has little or no advantages but an awful lot of detriment to the overall ambience.

Not the best of credentials for an organisation that supposedly has "conservation" as it's raison d'etre.


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Simon Kirby
post Jul 10 2017, 05:37 PM
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QUOTE (SirWilliam @ Jul 10 2017, 11:12 AM) *
This is why I cited Stonehenge as the model. When it was a few sarsen stones in a field visited by unruly school kids and a few odd bods who called themselves Druids / new age travellers etc it had little or no impact on either the local economy or traffic. Then the boys in beige built a monstrosity called a visitors centre, closed off a main road and caused a continual traffic jam ...

Sorry, but this isn't true. From Wikipedia:

QUOTE (Wikipedia A303 Road)
Since the 1950s, the A303 has been criticised for being inadequate for the level of traffic along it. In 1959, it was reported that a typical queue for holiday traffic along the road could be as much as 15 miles (24 km).[28] As of 2016, over 35 miles (56 km) of the road west of Amesbury remains single carriageway, interrupted by various sections of dual carriageway. The switches between the latter to the former act as bottlenecks and are major sources of congestion along the route.


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SirWilliam
post Jul 10 2017, 06:17 PM
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QUOTE (Simon Kirby @ Jul 10 2017, 06:37 PM) *
Sorry, but this isn't true. From Wikipedia:



Sorry ! Obviously Wikipedia knows more than someone who actually lived close by for a number of years, ( 70's). They didn't have Specsavers then, rolleyes.gif
Seriously though, the 303 was the main artery, along with the A30, to the West Country, and yes it was busy but that was due in part to being single carriageway for most of its length. The addition of dual carriageway sections has had the effect of causing a "wave flow" in the traffic, and as any budding physicist will tell you if you pour milk too quickly into a bottle some will spill over.

On a side issue, though relevant to the original post, the problem has been exacerbated by those who think they know how to manage these things as opposed to actually knowing.


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Simon Kirby
post Jul 10 2017, 07:23 PM
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QUOTE (SirWilliam @ Jul 10 2017, 07:17 PM) *
On a side issue, though relevant to the original post, the problem has been exacerbated by those who think they know how to manage these things as opposed to actually knowing.

Yes, you said that, but you haven't shown that to be true, and your example of the traffic jams on the A303 being caused by the visitor center is not supported by the evidence.


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Biker1
post Jul 11 2017, 05:08 AM
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QUOTE (Simon Kirby @ Jul 10 2017, 08:23 PM) *
Yes, you said that, but you haven't shown that to be true, and your example of the traffic jams on the A303 being caused by the visitor center is not supported by the evidence.

Grammar Police warning!!
It's actually "centre" on this side of the Atlantic!! tongue.gif
Oh and I thought the closure of the A360 at Stonehenge was done in an attempt to alleviate the jams there on the A303?
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Simon Kirby
post Jul 11 2017, 06:30 AM
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QUOTE (Biker1 @ Jul 11 2017, 06:08 AM) *
Grammar Police warning!!
It's actually "centre" on this side of the Atlantic!! tongue.gif

Give over, do we really need to nit-pick over spelling?


QUOTE (Biker1 @ Jul 11 2017, 06:08 AM) *
Oh and I thought the closure of the A360 at Stonehenge was done in an attempt to alleviate the jams there on the A303?

I wouldn't know, but the point is that the A303 has suffered from traffic jams for decades because it's a largely single-lane road that carries heavy traffic and because people have a tendency to slow right down to have a good look at the stones as they pass. Sir William's argument was that the traffic jams were caused by the visitor cente but the traffic jams existed decades before it was built and this spurious example was his only support for his argument that UNESCO would be bad for the Lake District.


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Biker1
post Jul 11 2017, 06:17 PM
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QUOTE (Simon Kirby @ Jul 11 2017, 07:30 AM) *
Give over, do we really need to nit-pick over spelling?

Wasn't me that started it on this thread!
Didn't you spot the tongue-in-cheek emoticon?? laugh.gif
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Posts in this topic
- SirWilliam   Water and hills   Jul 9 2017, 07:07 PM
|||- - SirWilliam   QUOTE (Simon Kirby @ Jul 11 2017, 07:30 A...   Jul 11 2017, 10:37 AM
||||- - Simon Kirby   QUOTE (SirWilliam @ Jul 11 2017, 11:37 AM...   Jul 11 2017, 07:10 PM
|||- - Simon Kirby   QUOTE (Biker1 @ Jul 11 2017, 07:17 PM) Wa...   Jul 11 2017, 06:59 PM
||- - blackdog   QUOTE (Simon Kirby @ Jul 10 2017, 06:37 P...   Jul 11 2017, 08:04 AM
|- - blackdog   QUOTE (On the edge @ Jul 9 2017, 09:09 PM...   Jul 11 2017, 08:12 AM
|- - On the edge   QUOTE (blackdog @ Jul 11 2017, 09:12 AM) ...   Jul 11 2017, 03:50 PM
|- - blackdog   QUOTE (On the edge @ Jul 11 2017, 04:50 P...   Jul 12 2017, 06:32 PM
|- - Simon Kirby   QUOTE (blackdog @ Jul 12 2017, 07:32 PM) ...   Jul 12 2017, 06:54 PM
|- - On the edge   QUOTE (blackdog @ Jul 12 2017, 07:32 PM) ...   Jul 12 2017, 09:40 PM
- - Berkshirelad   Grammar Police Warning The plural of millennium i...   Jul 10 2017, 12:56 PM
|- - Andy Capp   QUOTE (Berkshirelad @ Jul 10 2017, 01:56 ...   Jul 10 2017, 04:49 PM
- - Simon Kirby   QUOTE (SirWilliam @ Jul 9 2017, 08:07 PM)...   Jul 10 2017, 05:14 PM
|- - SirWilliam   QUOTE (Simon Kirby @ Jul 10 2017, 06:14 P...   Jul 10 2017, 06:46 PM
|- - je suis Charlie   QUOTE (Simon Kirby @ Jul 10 2017, 05:14 P...   Jul 10 2017, 06:56 PM
|- - SirWilliam   QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ Jul 10 2017, 07...   Jul 10 2017, 07:12 PM
|- - Simon Kirby   QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ Jul 10 2017, 07...   Jul 10 2017, 07:13 PM
- - SirWilliam   http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-wiltshire-412...   Sep 13 2017, 10:06 AM
|- - Biker1   QUOTE (SirWilliam @ Sep 13 2017, 11:06 AM...   Sep 13 2017, 11:24 AM
- - On the edge   Surprises me that no one has suggested moving the ...   Sep 13 2017, 01:45 PM
|- - newres   QUOTE (On the edge @ Sep 13 2017, 02:45 P...   Sep 13 2017, 04:09 PM
|- - SirWilliam   QUOTE (On the edge @ Sep 13 2017, 02:45 P...   Sep 13 2017, 05:08 PM
|- - On the edge   QUOTE (SirWilliam @ Sep 13 2017, 06:08 PM...   Sep 14 2017, 03:15 PM
|- - SirWilliam   QUOTE (On the edge @ Sep 14 2017, 04:15 P...   Sep 14 2017, 05:22 PM
|- - newres   QUOTE (SirWilliam @ Sep 14 2017, 06:22 PM...   Sep 15 2017, 06:44 AM
|- - SirWilliam   QUOTE (newres @ Sep 15 2017, 07:44 AM) Wh...   Sep 15 2017, 08:19 AM
|- - newres   QUOTE (SirWilliam @ Sep 15 2017, 09:19 AM...   Sep 15 2017, 11:21 AM
|- - SirWilliam   QUOTE (newres @ Sep 15 2017, 12:21 PM) Th...   Sep 15 2017, 11:36 AM
|- - On the edge   QUOTE (newres @ Sep 15 2017, 12:21 PM) Th...   Sep 15 2017, 01:07 PM
|- - newres   QUOTE (On the edge @ Sep 15 2017, 02:07 P...   Sep 15 2017, 01:30 PM
|- - On the edge   QUOTE (newres @ Sep 15 2017, 02:30 PM) We...   Sep 15 2017, 03:14 PM
- - Turin Machine   Being Welsh I demand that the bluestones be return...   Sep 15 2017, 03:20 PM
|- - SirWilliam   QUOTE (Turin Machine @ Sep 15 2017, 04:20...   Sep 15 2017, 05:52 PM
- - newres   Being English I demand the Welsh be returned.   Sep 15 2017, 06:45 PM
|- - Turin Machine   QUOTE (newres @ Sep 15 2017, 07:45 PM) Be...   Sep 15 2017, 09:41 PM
- - SirWilliam   Bit of "non Covid" news for a change. Th...   Nov 16 2020, 08:41 PM
- - Biker1   QUOTE (SirWilliam @ Nov 16 2020, 09:41 PM...   Nov 18 2020, 09:31 AM
- - SirWilliam   QUOTE (Biker1 @ Nov 18 2020, 09:31 AM) If...   Nov 18 2020, 08:14 PM


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