The Death penalty; yes or no Options

[Bloggo]

Bloggo, i agree with you here, there is no difference. But a personal opinion from me would be that if I was a soldier defending my country, i could kill. I would find it difficult being a soldier in a war i didnt believe in, likewise i dont think i could kill a criminal unless they had committed the crime against me or my family.

Just remind yourself of the Baby Peter case. His evil mother and boyfriend should have been sentenced to death for the pain and suffering they subjected that child to.
A simple and clean double tap to the head would have been wholly approriate in that case.

[GMR]

My grandfather used to get the train to Strangeways with a certain Mr Albert Pierrepoint

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Pierrepoint

He was an extraordinary man and very thorough in his preparation. He also executed 200 Nazi War Criminals at Nurenburg and he took great pride in doing this.

Some posters on this forum would appear to want to forgive people such heinous crimes as the murder of millions of people. After all if you transalated the human rights that the European Court has foisted on us to the end of the 2nd World War then the Nazi Muderers would have been spared.

I read Albert Pierreopoint's autobiography many years ago.

[dannyboy]

My grandfather used to get the train to Strangeways with a certain Mr Albert Pierrepoint

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Pierrepoint

He was an extraordinary man and very thorough in his preparation. He also executed 200 Nazi War Criminals at Nurenburg and he took great pride in doing this.

Some posters on this forum would appear to want to forgive people such heinous crimes as the murder of millions of people. After all if you transalated the human rights that the European Court has foisted on us to the end of the 2nd World War then the Nazi Muderers would have been spared.

As the Nazi Party seems never to be far from this forum, look with what intentions they started -


http://www.historyplace.com/worldwar2/rise...er/25points.htm

[dannyboy]

I read Albert Pierreopoint's autobiography many years ago.

So then, you know what he felt about the Death Penalty.

from that autobiography - "I have come to the conclusion that executions solve nothing, and are only an antiquated relic of a primitive desire for revenge which takes the easy way and hands over the responsibility for revenge to other people...The trouble with the death penalty has always been that nobody wanted it for everybody, but everybody differed about who should get off."

[TallDarkAndHands...]

So then, you know what he felt about the Death Penalty.

from that autobiography - "I have come to the conclusion that executions solve nothing, and are only an antiquated relic of a primitive desire for revenge which takes the easy way and hands over the responsibility for revenge to other people...The trouble with the death penalty has always been that nobody wanted it for everybody, but everybody differed about who should get off."

He only felt like that at the end of his career when the justice system got it all wrong in the Ellis case.

[Guest_Bill1_*]

Haven't had time to read any of this, but I would like to see the B*rstards who took a baseball bat to a NINE year old as he begged not to be hurt when his families home in Northern Ireland was attacked at the weekend strung up.

The evil cowards!

[dannyboy]

He only felt like that at the end of his career when the justice system got it all wrong in the Ellis case.

Exactly. here was a chap who had carried out many executions & it only took one miscarriage to change his mind. What if some of of the others he hanged were also not guilty?

[GMR]

So then, you know what he felt about the Death Penalty.

from that autobiography - "I have come to the conclusion that executions solve nothing, and are only an antiquated relic of a primitive desire for revenge which takes the easy way and hands over the responsibility for revenge to other people...The trouble with the death penalty has always been that nobody wanted it for everybody, but everybody differed about who should get off."

Crime will never be solved; whether we have the death penalty or not. The idea for having it is punish those that have stepped over the mark.

Many executioners gave a different view.

[GMR]

Exactly. here was a chap who had carried out many executions & it only took one miscarriage to change his mind. What if some of of the others he hanged were also not guilty?

Who said they got it wrong where it concerned Ellis? She did murder her lover… some say she shouldn’t have been executed, others give a different verdict.

[Strafin]

I haven't read through all this yet but my vote would be yes, but I think it should be optional for potential lifers who (if they are of sound mind) could choose it as an alternative to life. Although with life not meaning life anymore, I dount anyone would take it, but Fred West, or Ian Huntley would be good bets to have said yes.

[dannyboy]

Who said they got it wrong where it concerned Ellis? She did murder her lover… some say she shouldn’t have been executed, others give a different verdict.

ever better then - she was guilty & he still wrote what he did.

[J C]

Should we be looking at this from a different angle? That as a society we seem not to believe in reformed characters, that for the most heinous of crimes we cannot forgive therefore we look for tougher and tougher punishments so that ultimately the only thing left is the death sentance.
What if prisoners can reform and be truly repentant over their crimes? The only thing that then keeps them behind bars is societies reluctance to forgive. I know that this wouldn't work in all cases however I would think that more prisoners would be willing to admit their guilt and work through their issues if they knew at the end of it they had paid their debt to society and can walk out of jail with a clean slate.

[dannyboy]

Haven't had time to read any of this, but I would like to see the B*rstards who took a baseball bat to a NINE year old as he begged not to be hurt when his families home in Northern Ireland was attacked at the weekend strung up.

The evil cowards!

That will be the vigilante mob dealing out some punishment to an anti social youth. Quite common in Northen Ireland
from a BBC website -

Usually it is gangs that carry out the attacks. The motive can be a personal grudge or a real or imagined slight. Those singled out for attacks are often alleged by the paramilitaries to have been involved in crimes such as supplying drugs, or joyriding.

Most experts argue that the attacks are the result of a breakdown in law and order caused by The Troubles. In republican areas, the official police force, the RUC, has little credibility and members of the community turn to paramilitaries to "get something done" about petty criminals.

"There is an awful lot of feeling that they're getting some of what they deserve because of what they've done," says security expert Alan Murray. "Certainly in these areas, it's seen as swift justice - as certain justice."

[GMR]

ever better then - she was guilty & he still wrote what he did.

And would you still have the same feelings when a child abuser/ paedophile has raped and abused a child?

[GMR]

Should we be looking at this from a different angle? That as a society we seem not to believe in reformed characters, that for the most heinous of crimes we cannot forgive therefore we look for tougher and tougher punishments so that ultimately the only thing left is the death sentance.
What if prisoners can reform and be truly repentant over their crimes? The only thing that then keeps them behind bars is societies reluctance to forgive. I know that this wouldn't work in all cases however I would think that more prisoners would be willing to admit their guilt and work through their issues if they knew at the end of it they had paid their debt to society and can walk out of jail with a clean slate.

Do you/ did you want to reform the Moore’s murderers so that they could be put back into our society? Or a paedophile who has abused a child? Prisons for some are just about that; punishment, not for reforming or even a deterrent but just simple punishment.

[lordtup]

By the pure fact that this topic has had 55 replies in the short time it has been on air says an awful lot about peoples feelings on such an emotive issue.
Though it is probable that I would want to exact total revenge if someone murdered a loved one, I would not expect society to shoulder that responsibility even though they may feel that by removing this person from society will stop others doing it. A philosophy that doesn't stand up, so I must cast my vote with the No's

[J C]

Do you/ did you want to reform the Moore’s murderers so that they could be put back into our society? Or a paedophile who has abused a child? Prisons for some are just about that; punishment, not for reforming or even a deterrent but just simple punishment.

As I said it wouldn't work in all cases. With child offenders the focus seems to be on reforming them and releasing back into society as was seen with the two boys who killed Jamie Bulger. That was a horrific crime commited by two young boys, do you think that they should have been kept imprisoned longer than they were? Should they have faced the death penalty? I don't believe so. Do I believe that they have been released fully repentant for their crime after serving their sentances, yes I do, and also believe that they now have the right to try and build a life for themselves. However I think I may be in a minority here and there are probably lots of people who wouldn't ever be able to see past the crime

[Guest_Bill1_*]

Haven't had time to read any of this, but I would like to see the B*rstards who took a baseball bat to a NINE year old as he begged not to be hurt when his families home in Northern Ireland was attacked at the weekend strung up.

The evil cowards!

Dannyboy responded

" That will be the vigilante mob dealing out some punishment to an anti social youth. Quite common in Northen Ireland"
from a BBC website -

Usually it is gangs that carry out the attacks. The motive can be a personal grudge or a real or imagined slight. Those singled out for attacks are often alleged by the paramilitaries to have been involved in crimes such as supplying drugs, or joyriding.

Most experts argue that the attacks are the result of a breakdown in law and order caused by The Troubles. In republican areas, the official police force, the RUC, has little credibility and members of the community turn to paramilitaries to "get something done" about petty criminals.

"There is an awful lot of feeling that they're getting some of what they deserve because of what they've done," says security expert Alan Murray. "Certainly in these areas, it's seen as swift justice - as certain justice."


What? Aged NINE FFS! I don't think so.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/8180339.stm

[TallDarkAndHands...]

I have a solution.

Those that want reform and councilling of prisoners all move to one area of the Country.

Those that want punishment and detention and in some cases the death penalty all move to another part of the Country.

Then when the Muderers, Rapists, Paedohilles etc come up for release just release them into the care of the community that does not want tough punishment but want to give these types another chance.

Probelm solved!!

[dannyboy]

Dannyboy responded

" That will be the vigilante mob dealing out some punishment to an anti social youth. Quite common in Northen Ireland"
from a BBC website -

Usually it is gangs that carry out the attacks. The motive can be a personal grudge or a real or imagined slight. Those singled out for attacks are often alleged by the paramilitaries to have been involved in crimes such as supplying drugs, or joyriding.

Most experts argue that the attacks are the result of a breakdown in law and order caused by The Troubles. In republican areas, the official police force, the RUC, has little credibility and members of the community turn to paramilitaries to "get something done" about petty criminals.

"There is an awful lot of feeling that they're getting some of what they deserve because of what they've done," says security expert Alan Murray. "Certainly in these areas, it's seen as swift justice - as certain justice."


What? Aged NINE FFS! I don't think so.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/8180339.stm

you miss my point - which is that this is the kind of thing you get when respect for the law ends & 'mob rule' takes over. Who decides who is punished & what for? I'm not condoning what happened here - this kind of beating has been happening for over a decade.