Council are not making cuts to vulnerable, Joe Mooney tells the world via BBC Berkshire Options

[dannyboy]

Danny, you always expect answers from me. Can you answer these for me please?

I don't see why I should as you never give a straight answer.

But, I said the level of service would not be affected. I even qualified it by saying that there would be change & that some would find that change upsetting.

[NWNREADER]

We had access to very detailed info after we did our excercise last year. We could publish some bits now, but I think people would prefer to see that all of the numbers add up. Anyone can promise this or that,and in hindsight we should have issued an FOI to get the info we got after we published our alternative at the end of last year, so that way it would have been watertight. The fact is, the info we need isn't available to anyone until March, outside of the administration ofcourse. Not even the Lib Dems can access it.

Last year, we did it to show that there were other ways to save money. What we want to do now is come up with a fully costed plan for the next four years, and the key principles have already been decided and costed, we just need to make sure that from the starting position this year, the numbers add up. A lot of the finer details will mean that certain things need to be changed in our plans. What we don't want to do if we get control is to end up overspending in certain areas by millions of pounds like Adult Social Care or Waste for example.

As best I can tell you have merely re-presented what I said.

[Richard Garvie]

I don't see why I should as you never give a straight answer.

But, I said the level of service would not be affected. I even qualified it by saying that there would be change & that some would find that change upsetting.

But the level of service is being affected. Five centres are closing and some people will not have the option of using a day centre.

[user23]

Not at all. You try to land blows on me for anything and everything, regardless of the subject. The truth is, I can prove that the cuts are going to hurt people, and I can prove that I have investigated keeping the centres open in partnership with other groups. I've offered to meet you, but you haven't accepted. Can I pop in to see you at work?

Don't be so adversarial with your language and don't take it so personally if someone disagrees with you. No one trying to "land blows" on you.

No you can't pop in and see me at work. I doubt my employers would take kindly to me taking time out of my day to discuss my personal opinions with anyone. Some of us work for a living Richard and can't spend all day people chatting on the Internet or elsewhere about our personal interests.

Given your past behaviour here you'd only end up calling me a liar for disagreeing with you anyway so there would be little point.

Anyway, back on topic, where's your business plan then?

[NWNREADER]

Looking around the country it seems that nearly all the Councils, regardless of majority party, is taking more or less the same action regarding cost reduction.

Does that mean, however tough, the decisions are right, or at least unavoidable?

[Richard Garvie]

Looking around the country it seems that nearly all the Councils, regardless of majority party, is taking more or less the same action regarding cost reduction.

Does that mean, however tough, the decisions are right, or at least unavoidable?

Well, the councils that are cutting services are at least being honest about it, for example not saying on live BBC Radio that they "don't know of any cuts to those people". I'm with Pickles on this one, cut executive salaries, admin cost and everything else first, then look at what services need savings. Savings could have been made at the day centres without shutting them completely.

[NWNREADER]

Well, the councils that are cutting services are at least being honest about it, for example not saying on live BBC Radio that they "don't know of any cuts to those people". I'm with Pickles on this one, cut executive salaries, admin cost and everything else first, then look at what services need savings. Savings could have been made at the day centres without shutting them completely.

That statement bears little relationship to the question. I do not know what all the other councils in England are telling their citizens, I do not know what their Members are saying about their proposals, I do not know what other measures other councils are taking re back office (I do see WBC are making changes there as well as 'service' changes).

The few councils I have looked at have been changing or withdrawing adult services and youth services, regardless of majority party.


The question was, as so many councils seem to be taking the same sort of measures does that mean they are correct or at least unavoidable?

[user23]

The question was, as so many councils seem to be taking the same sort of measures does that mean they are correct or at least unavoidable?

Given an ageing population and with many taxpayers unwilling to contribute more, the answer is probably yes.

[Andy Capp]

The question was, as so many councils seem to be taking the same sort of measures does that mean they are correct or at least unavoidable?

What do you mean by unavoidable? I ask, because few things are unavoidable.

[NWNREADER]

What do you mean by unavoidable? I ask, because few things are unavoidable.

No viable alternative, all things considered

[Andy Capp]

I think that would be difficult without having full access to the books.

[NWNREADER]

My point is, I suppose, that a great deal is being made of the local decisions when national indicators seem to show the solutions being applied are fairly universal.

Therefore, do we have to move on to next business as no-one else seems to have a better solution in terms of how the spends are re-aligned?

[Andy Capp]

I still have to say, we would need to see how things are on the balance sheet. We otherwise have to assume in good faith that the cuts are unavoidable, but I am sceptical that is truly the case.

[NWNREADER]

I still have to say, we would need to see how things are on the balance sheet. We otherwise have to assume in good faith that the cuts are unavoidable, but I am sceptical that is truly the case.

You imply WBC may be setting their budget incorrectly when so many others are doing the same? Or is the reality the WBC methodology is not so evil as some believe/charge?

[Andy Capp]

You imply WBC may be setting their budget incorrectly when so many others are doing the same? Or is the reality the WBC methodology is not so evil as some believe/charge?

You asked an impossible to answer question for someone like me who has no access to the information I need.

You are suggesting that because 'everyone' are making similar type of cuts, that it has legitimized the cuts WBC are making. That does make logical sense, but that doesn't necessarily confirm that the ones we have are unavoidable.

[user23]

You asked an impossible to answer question for someone like me who has no access to the information I need.

You are suggesting that because 'everyone' are making similar type of cuts, that it has legitimized the cuts WBC are making. That does make logical sense, but that doesn't necessarily confirm that the ones we have are unavoidable.

Don't we already have the figures?

A Central Government grant cut by 28% whilst the number of elderly in proportion to the taxpaying public grows every year and an unwillingness for local people to pay any more.

[Richard Garvie]

Don't we already have the figures?

A Central Government grant cut by 28% whilst the number of elderly in proportion to the taxpaying public grows every year and an unwillingness for local people to pay any more.

We will have to agree to disagree. Obviously the doubling of debt interest payments in just twelve months was avoidable, and that money could have prevented some of the cuts. Have the senior executive officers agreed to pay cuts? Have elected members taken a pay cut?

The fact is, Joe Mooney said vulnerable people would be affected by the £8.2m cuts and that he didn't know of any cuts aimed at the elderly or disabled. The dishonesty is the worst part of all this.

NWN, as I said before, I agree with Pickles, not other local councils. We need to make sure that the administration is in order and that cuts to services are land on the list. I'm all for efficiency savings, but the fact we have to cut so far and so fast means a lot of people making knee jerk reactions.

[user23]

If you're calling for pay cuts then surely this should be across the board?

I know figures aren't your strong point but ten or so council staff and fifty or so members taking a pay cut of a few hundred a year isn't really going to solve the problem of the Central Government grant cut by 28% whilst the number of elderly in proportion to the taxpaying public grows every year and there is an unwillingness for local people to pay any more, is it?

[Richard Garvie]

If you're calling for pay cuts then surely this should be across the board?

I know figures aren't your strong point but ten or so council staff and fifty or so members taking a pay cut of a few hundred a year isn't really going to solve the problem of the Central Government grant cut by 28% whilst the number of elderly in proportion to the taxpaying public grows every year and there is an unwillingness for local people to pay any more, is it?

No, what I'm saying is that all options should be explored before cutting key services. It was a Conservative Party manifesto promise (another they haven't kept) that they would not axe frontline services and that they were only going to implement efficiency savings. That hasn't happened, what we are seeing is key services slashed.

Oh, and I heard today that another 14 home carers have lost their jobs. All notified by letter, it would appear nobody even had the decency to speak to them in person!!! So much for no more job cuts.

[NWNREADER]

If you're calling for pay cuts then surely this should be across the board?

I know figures aren't your strong point but ten or so council staff and fifty or so members taking a pay cut of a few hundred a year isn't really going to solve the problem of the Central Government grant cut by 28% whilst the number of elderly in proportion to the taxpaying public grows every year and there is an unwillingness for local people to pay any more, is it?

Sometimes a measure need not make a significant impact, but indicates one-ness. Nationally there are many examples of MPs and now councillors screwing then expenses system for all they can, and of (usually) senior Officers working the pension/re-employment system also. Those examples, the minority as they may be, leave a bad taste.

There needs to be a proper understanding of the 'elderly' issue as described by User. With a static retirement age (until recently) and a growing pension-age population something has to give. Either we pay more or get less.

I agree elected members at all levels, and Civil Servants/Local Government Officers should be less crafty with simple truth, but the calls for change come from those in opposition, and are rarely undertaken when in the majority group. No-one is ever always right/never wrong.