School Holidays Options

[GMR]

My point was that people do, do things for the best intentions – i.e. as in the Nazi’s –

are you trying to win some dubious award?

I didn't say I agreed but it is a fact that the Nazi's or Stalin or even the yorkshire ripper or any other lunatic you might like to mention thought they were doing some good for humanity. That is a fact; that doesn't mean it was right (which it wasn't). I thought I made that clear!

[Iommi]

Of course there are such things. I’ll give you a couple of small examples. In Birmingham shop a couple of years ago...

I was going to reply in my customary verbose manner (suffice to say I thoroughly disagree with your synopsis).

I have often been 'seduced' by passages in the media promoting points of view like yours, but I've decided to reply by way of a link to a stand-up comic that was recorded on BBC radio some time ago which, although doesn't ideally demonstrate my position, I think serves as a reasonable alternative way of looking at PC.

URL: Stewart Lee on Political Correctness

It contains words some people might find offensive, but it was broadcast on BBC radio.

"It's nonsense to applaud acts such as Borat and Little Britain for being 'non-PC', says Stewart Lee. It's the fact that the writers are truly aware of what's offensive - and what life was like before political correctness made things better - that makes them so funny"


I am very concious, however, that we have moved way off topic and would rather focus on the specific point about children and their behaviour.

[GMR]

I was going to reply in my customary verbose manner (suffice to say I thoroughly disagree with your synopsis). I have often been seduced by passages in the media promoting points of view like yours, but I've decided to reply by way of a link to a stand-up comic that was recorded on BBC radio some time ago which, although doesn't ideally demonstrate my position, I think serves as a reasonable riposte.

URL: Stewart Lee on Political Correctness

It contains words some people might find offensive, but it was broadcast on BBC radio.

"It's nonsense to applaud acts such as Borat and Little Britain for being 'non-PC', says Stewart Lee. It's the fact that the writers are truly aware of what's offensive - and what life was like before political correctness made things better - that makes them so funny"


I am very concious, however, that we have moved way off topic and would rather focus on the specific point about children and their behaviour.

There is nothing wrong with disagreeing with my synopsis as it continues the debate; there is nothing worse that agreement. What is the point of it other than confirming what one already knows; that they were right I am also pleased to see that you’ve been seduced by similar things to what I’ve written; my powers have no bounds However, you don’t really give me enough to get my teeth into other than going over old ground.

I understand your concerns about going off topics as I know you are a person who doesn’t like that particular activity so I shall go in the direction you are pointing towards... what was that again? Oh, yes... children and their behaviour

PS I did enjoy that witty broadcast. Oh, we laughed... but then what else is there to do?

[Pringles]

Seems that the police and council seem to be putting most of their effort into chasing after the people who actually make them money by paying their fines.

There is no profit in catching and prosecuting for anti social behaviour.

On top of that there is no punishment when caught.

Most of the people of this country list anti-social behaviour and it's associated crimes as one of their top issues and yet nothing is done about it.

[Pringles]

Hello all. New to this to bear with me. Not quite sure what the local authorities are up to. For one: bringing in a heap of traffic wardens, costing the tax payer hundreds of thousands, trying to claw in the money spent on these not too polite whatsits. Giving out expensive fines to the disabled, who really can't afford it.

Instead, they could have spent some money on training the mothers how to have a good time without being anti social, this will pass down to the kids!
Some money could have gone on the roads which quite frankly don't help. If the area doesn't look nice, people are less likely to look after and respect their home town, and people that live in it.

The council really need to think about what they are focussing on. Newbury needs money, but people are shopping elsewhere for a number of reasons - anti social behaviour and parking being 2 of them.

[spartacus]

bad parking IS anti social

[GMR]

Hello all. New to this to bear with me. Not quite sure what the local authorities are up to. For one: bringing in a heap of traffic wardens, costing the tax payer hundreds of thousands, trying to claw in the money spent on these not too polite whatsits. Giving out expensive fines to the disabled, who really can't afford it.

Hi Pringles, I’ve tasted some of your flavours, but enough of the frivolity and to the question in hand.

When you are focused on one objective – i.e. too make as much money you can (and probably rule the world in the process) – you don’t bother with the all niceties of this world; compassion, understanding your fellowman etc - you read up on Niccolò Machiavelli’s the prince in how to rule the world (at least eventually ).

Instead, they could have spent some money on training the mothers how to have a good time without being anti social, this will pass down to the kids!

I don’t know about training mothers; you’ve heard of the saying “You can take a horse to the trough but you can’t make the dumb creature drink from it”. I don’t think that would work and you would be wasting good honest tax payers money. Public humiliation probably would be a better option with a couple of flogging thrown in for good measure.

Some money could have gone on the roads which quite frankly don't help. If the area doesn't look nice, people are less likely to look after and respect their home town, and people that live in it.

True

The council really need to think about what they are focussing on.

That is the problem the council have; the inability to think, if they did we would have a lot less waste and cockups.

Newbury needs money, but people are shopping elsewhere for a number of reasons - anti social behaviour and parking being 2 of them.

True and true again about anti social behaviour. So, it is not just mothers who should be flogged then... maybe we could get two for the price of one.

Now sit back and wait for the chastisement; I am sure I’ve upset somebody here?

[Iommi]

...However, you don’t really give me enough to get my teeth into other than going over old ground. I understand your concerns about going off topics as I know you are a person who doesn’t like that particular activity so I shall go in the direction you are pointing towards... what was that again? Oh, yes... children and their behaviour PS I did enjoy that witty broadcast. Oh, we laughed... but then what else is there to do?

The thing is, I think we contrived to take the conversation into the wrong direction. This includes misunderstanding what I said (I am not blaming you).

I felt it was unfair to throw what is to all intents and purposes, mild insults at people that are trying to do the right thing. I wrote, "Calling people PC fluffy brigade, etc, isn't helpful either. I think most people do things for the right reasons." This is literal; I think people who are accused of being PC are doing things for the right reasons. The reasons are equality and fairness. The Nazis, the ripper, et al, on the other hand, in my view, were not doing what they did for the right reasons - viz, cleanse the planet of the wrong sort. That, for me, isn't doing things for the right reasons.

I could detect that this conversation could start to get a bit heated with you and Simon, not least because I think both your posts were ill-conceived. I don't believe PC people are 'not far off' from wilful mass murderers (even if their actions have inadvertently resulted in death). I also don't see all PC people as being self serving. Misguided, maybe, but that's a different issue.

If things have got worse, it will take decades to get it right, but this won't necessarily require corporal punishment. Park House School seemed to make liberal use of the cane (including being used on people I know), yet some of those people it was used on still went on to get into trouble with the police and worse. The cane to them seemed like an 'occupational hazard'. Some even 'preferred' it to detention.

[part time]

I think the obvious answer here is to reduce the school holidays to maybe a couple of days either side of a weekend and introduce an 'annual leave entitlement' system for pupils.
That way all the phlebs will blow their entitlement in the first few weeks/months of the year, leaving the other kids to get a good few weeks quality learning in without being held back and then I can use my holiday entitlement at times more convenient to myslef and my families travel plans.

[Simon]

I could detect that this conversation could start to get a bit heated with you and Simon,

aww Iommi, it gets fun when it gets heated!!!

On a serious note, i think we are talking about two different PC brigades. I agree with you that some of these people HAVE made the world a better place and i hope they continue to do so.

The ones I was talking about were the types that get involved where they are not needed and cause trouble. the ones who say we cant fly the St Georges flag during national football tournaments incase we offend people, the ones that say we cant celebrate Christmas, and change it to Winter festivals.

I also agree with you that this is off topic, so I shall be quiet on this subject now until a thread appears about it

[hamster]

I notice the focus of some posters seems to be on 'mothers' failure to control their children. I appreciate that there is a rather high chance that many anti-social kids come from single female-parent families. I think this is somewhat shortsighted. The men who fathered these children, whether still with the mother or not have a massive influence on the children's future; either as a influence on their behavior directly in the home or an influence on their behavior as a result of their absence from the child's life. Education about contraception is not working - its too late, the way society has broken down has resulted in a certain lifestyle that is pre-disposed to getting pregnant outside of a traditional family set-up.

I am in danger of doom and gloom here but I really think our 'Great British' society is well on its way to imploding as society breaks down rapidly. Earlier someone mentioned kids asking adults to buy cigs or alcohol at shops, in past times an adult would have told them "No way" and strongly told them what they thought about a kid smoking/drinking...now.. we politely refuse the request for fear of being verbally abused (and probably still get verbally abused anyway)..evidence of how bad things have got.

The crux of the matter is: getting some discipline back amongst youngsters and a healthy respect for authority. Probably the only quick and realistic way to do this is to build some prisons (preferably floating offshore ones without tv's, pool tables and computer games etc) and start locking people up when they deserve it instead of repeated warnings, community service, ASBO's and suspended sentences. This should level the playing field.

[Chesapeake]

The crux of the matter is: getting some discipline back amongst youngsters and a healthy respect for authority. Probably the only quick and realistic way to do this is to build some prisons (preferably floating offshore ones without tv's, pool tables and computer games etc) and start locking people up when they deserve it instead of repeated warnings, community service, ASBO's and suspended sentences. This should level the playing field.

I agree with Hamster's opinion that we need to get discipline back amongst our youngsters and a healthy respect for authority but the answer to the problem is not a quick fix by using prisons. We need to fight this problem ffrom a totally different angle and at the very start by using methods of prevention rather than continually fire fighting as we are at the moment.

I believe that as a country we have lost the sense and basics of family life. There are too many children out there who do not have the quality of parenting that most enjoyed 40,50,60 plus years ago. Too many parents, young and older, working and non-working, simply do not know what it is to be a good parent. It has become the norm to be mouthy and disrespectful to your parents and this then continues in a domino effect with attitude towards teachers, Jo Bloggs on the street, police etc. The parents of today are not equipped with the skills and knowledge to tackle this behaviour at grass roots level.

I believe that we need to introduce a totally new subject into our schools, 'Parenting for All' and make it COMPULSORY!

Some of the stories that I hear from Police friends are very disturbing and frightening and the stories that I hear from my daughter about what children she knows get up to is frightening. Children need to feel secure, loved and know where their boundaries are.

[GMR]

The thing is, I think we contrived to take the conversation into the wrong direction. This includes misunderstanding what I said (I am not blaming you).

People always pick up bits and run with it, even if it is not as the original poster wanted.

I felt it was unfair to throw what is to all intents and purposes, mild insults at people that are trying to do the right thing. I wrote, "Calling people PC fluffy brigade, etc, isn't helpful either. I think most people do things for the right reasons." This is literal; I think people who are accused of being PC are doing things for the right reasons. The reasons are equality and fairness. The Nazis, the ripper, et al, on the other hand, in my view, were not doing what they did for the right reasons - viz, cleanse the planet of the wrong sort. That, for me, isn't doing things for the right reasons.

I didn’t actually start the “PC” thing but seeing as you and the other poster mentioned it I run with it. I understand what you are saying but the “PC brigade” does get up peoples noses. I also don’t believe that the “PC” brigade were doing things for the right reason (granted, in their minds I am sure they believed they were, as the Nazi’s et al believed they were; of course I am not comparing their ‘crimes’ just making a point and using that as an example).

I could detect that this conversation could start to get a bit heated with you and Simon, not least because I think both your posts were ill-conceived. I don't believe PC people are 'not far off' from wilful mass murderers (even if their actions have inadvertently resulted in death). I also don't see all PC people as being self serving. Misguided, maybe, but that's a different issue.

I don’t think Simon and myself were that heated; I thought they way he replied was in the tolerable position: i.e. he wasn’t nasty. But then you could be right.

The “not far off” was probably a bit too far, but I hoped the reader would have understood my intentions, as I believe you did. Nevertheless I accept I over egged the pudding.

I believe PC people are “misguided” and have a lack of understanding of the bigger picture; they don’t also seem to understand the waves they make; then again maybe they do!

If things have got worse, it will take decades to get it right, but this won't necessarily require corporal punishment. Park House School seemed to make liberal use of the cane (including being used on people I know), yet some of those people it was used on still went on to get into trouble with the police and worse. The cane to them seemed like an 'occupational hazard'. Some even 'preferred' it to detention.

I had the cane at school and because I got the cane I would cop it at home; it kept me and a lot of others in line. Of course some will slip through the net, but on the whole it worked. So far it is the best deterrent we’ve got/ had and until something better comes along we should go back to it.

It will take decades to get things right, but we’ve got to start now and there are no signs of that happening.

Good replies Iommi, good debate.

[GMR]

I think the obvious answer here is to reduce the school holidays to maybe a couple of days either side of a weekend and introduce an 'annual leave entitlement' system for pupils.
That way all the phlebs will blow their entitlement in the first few weeks/months of the year, leaving the other kids to get a good few weeks quality learning in without being held back and then I can use my holiday entitlement at times more convenient to myslef and my families travel plans.

Reducing the school holidays is a good suggestion. I always thought kids had far too much holiday.

[Andrea]

Reducing the school holidays is a good suggestion. I always thought kids had far too much holiday.

In Canada, our summer holidays were from middle of June to beginning September.

[GMR]

I agree with Hamster's opinion that we need to get discipline back amongst our youngsters and a healthy respect for authority but the answer to the problem is not a quick fix by using prisons. We need to fight this problem ffrom a totally different angle and at the very start by using methods of prevention rather than continually fire fighting as we are at the moment.

I believe that as a country we have lost the sense and basics of family life. There are too many children out there who do not have the quality of parenting that most enjoyed 40,50,60 plus years ago. Too many parents, young and older, working and non-working, simply do not know what it is to be a good parent. It has become the norm to be mouthy and disrespectful to your parents and this then continues in a domino effect with attitude towards teachers, Jo Bloggs on the street, police etc. The parents of today are not equipped with the skills and knowledge to tackle this behaviour at grass roots level.

I believe that we need to introduce a totally new subject into our schools, 'Parenting for All' and make it COMPULSORY!

Some of the stories that I hear from Police friends are very disturbing and frightening and the stories that I hear from my daughter about what children she knows get up to is frightening. Children need to feel secure, loved and know where their boundaries are.

I understand what Hampster is saying, however, it is not as easy as that.

As for "compulsory" I agree... the trouble is you will infringe on the little darlings Human Rights and we could never have that!!! They are protected, sadly the innocent are not from the scum.

[GMR]

In Canada, our summer holidays were from middle of June to beginning September.

My mum is Swiss and when she went to school she had to also go on Saturday's.

[GMR]

aww Iommi, it gets fun when it gets heated!!!

On a serious note, i think we are talking about two different PC brigades. I agree with you that some of these people HAVE made the world a better place and i hope they continue to do so.

The ones I was talking about were the types that get involved where they are not needed and cause trouble. the ones who say we cant fly the St Georges flag during national football tournaments incase we offend people, the ones that say we cant celebrate Christmas, and change it to Winter festivals.

I also agree with you that this is off topic, so I shall be quiet on this subject now until a thread appears about it

I agree Simon; but then I supposed there is heated and heated

I also agree that there are different degrees of Political correctness.

To be honest I think this is a good debate; whether we go off topic or not.

[Chesapeake]

I understand what Hampster is saying, however, it is not as easy as that.

As for "compulsory" I agree... the trouble is you will infringe on the little darlings Human Rights and we could never have that!!! They are protected, sadly the innocent are not from the scum.

Seeing as it would be a school subject it woud not infringe on their Human Rights. I just think that it would help if the "innocent" grew up into informed adults and rejected the "scum". Peer pressure is a very strong thing!

[GMR]

Seeing as it would be a school subject it woud not infringe on their Human Rights. I just think that it would help if the "innocent" grew up into informed adults and rejected the "scum". Peer pressure is a very strong thing!

Sorry, I misread what you said; when you said "parenting for all" I thought you meant all parents. However, saying that unless they are getting some sort of teaching at home then they will ignore what they are being taught at school; especially teenagers.

I was a single-parent and I taught my kids at home the rights and wrongs; they never misbehaved or got into trouble. I brought up 4 children. One of the excuses was they come from a single-parent background; that should make no difference. There are a lot of unruly kids that have two parents.

If they did bring it into schools would they have sufficient time? I don't think so. Again; if they did start it at school it would have to be from an early age.

I do agree with what you say though; the problem is achieving it.