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> FAO: Keith Woodhams & Bus Lane
Richard Garvie
post Jun 21 2011, 12:49 AM
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Keith,

You say that you want a right turn access from the A4 into the hospital. This varies from the Lower Way into Hospital turning you previously called for. When you explain why you want the new bus lane, you say it is to benefit buses LEAVING the hospital. It doesn't make sense to me I'm afraid, can you please explain your argument effectively so we know exactly what your view is supposed to be. Can you also explaing what buses will be affected / benefit from your suggestion.

Thanks,

Richard Garvie

FOR THE RECORD:

A Thatcham councillor has called for a new bus lane into West Berkshire Hospital to stop what he describes as 'unnecessary detours' and 'increased journey times'.
Thatcham West cllr Keith Woodhams (Lib Dem), shadow executive member for highways and transport, has called for a new right turning into the hospital from the westbound carriageway of the A4 for buses only.

The councillor raised the issue at Thursday executive meeting at West Berkshire Council offices in market Street Newbury.
Following the meeting Cllr Woodhams said: “Currently there is a bus service that routes via the Thatcham Wyevale Garden Centre roundabout, along Turnpike Road into the West Berkshire Hospital and onto Newbury.
To pick up passengers at the bus stop at Benham Hill where both elderly and people with disabilities live, the bus has to come out of the hospital, turn left drive up to the garden centre roundabout and back along the A4 to Benham Hill and on to Newbury.
“To overcome this unnecessary detour that increases the journey time for passengers and increases the cost of fuel for the bus company, my suggestion to West Berkshire Council is to construct a right hand turn into the hospital from the A4 for buses only.
“With the massive underspend of tax payers money revealed by the Conservatives at the recent executive meeting, their money could be well spent on this scheme.”
However, the bus lane proposal was not popular with Newbury Labour party spokesman Richard Garvie who called on West Berkshire Council to reject calls for a new bus lane, arguing that motorists would be forced to wait longer at traffic lights on the A4.
He said: "At a time when the council can't even afford to keep day centres for the disabled open, I'd like to know what support Cllr Woodhams has for spending tens of thousands of pounds on such a project that will effectively leave up to thirty bus passengers in Pound Lane without a service. If the services are rerouted, passengers from Pound Lane would be forced to use Jet Black services from the stop at the top of Pound Lane. Would thirty less passengers per day effect the viability of service 102, and if so, would that result in the loss of the service for hundreds of other Thatcham residents, just for the sake of a one minute saving in journey time?"
Mr Garvie estimated the bus lane costs to be around £60,000.
Portfolio holder for Portfolio - Highways, Transport (Operational), ICT, Customer Services, David Betts (Con, Purley), said: “Officers are looking into this and we should have a report ready for Cllr Woodhams soon.”
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blackdog
post Jun 21 2011, 07:12 AM
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Are you being deliberately obtuse RG? Woodhams' suggestion is pretty straightforward - though I'm far from sure that there aren't better uses for the money in the current economic climate.
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On the edge
post Jun 21 2011, 07:26 AM
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Yes, there are far better and more effective uses of the money. The request does not seem to have been thought through at all. West Berkshire's poor road planning, since the opening of the bypass is strangling the local economy. Cllr Woodham's suggestion will simply make it worse. Can he justify the proposal with real facts and data?

Whilst on the subject; it has to be said that spending resource answering 'off the hip' questions is also hardly good use of officer time in such straightened times. A responsible opposition would only ask properly founded questions.


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user23
post Jun 21 2011, 07:27 AM
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Labour don't want money spent to help the elderly and people with disabilities?
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blackdog
post Jun 21 2011, 07:35 AM
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QUOTE (user23 @ Jun 21 2011, 08:27 AM) *
Labour don't want money spent to help the elderly and people with disabilities?

Woodhams' proposal can't really be said to be helping the elderly or disabled - apart from a couple of minutes off the bus journey time. Nor will it save the bus company all that much, it doesn't seem worth the expense to me.
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Richard Garvie
post Jun 21 2011, 07:55 AM
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QUOTE (user23 @ Jun 21 2011, 07:27 AM) *
Labour don't want money spent to help the elderly and people with disabilities?


We do want money for these people, we were the only party who really fought to protect day centres!!! Where were the Lib Dems (apart from RH turning up to get on TV without even speaking to those who were protesting)??
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Richard Garvie
post Jun 21 2011, 08:02 AM
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QUOTE (blackdog @ Jun 21 2011, 07:35 AM) *
Woodhams' proposal can't really be said to be helping the elderly or disabled - apart from a couple of minutes off the bus journey time. Nor will it save the bus company all that much, it doesn't seem worth the expense to me.


First Cllr Woodhams wanted to allow buses to turn right from Lower Way into the hospital. Now he wants buses to turn from the A4 to the hospital. Buses currently access the hospital from wyevale garden centre which means they flow off the roundabout and straight into the hospital relatively easy. Why insert another gap in the traffic flow on the A4 traffic light cycle slowing down that route even further for everyone else when there is no real issue with what we have?

The point is, he wants a right turn into the hospital heading into Newbury, yet uses exiting buses as his example. I use buses on a regular basis (just not peak times when it's quicker to walk into Newbury), and I have followed this with interest since it was first muted as the lower way scheme. There just doesn't seem to be any logic to what is being proposed.
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user23
post Jun 21 2011, 08:12 AM
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QUOTE (blackdog @ Jun 21 2011, 08:35 AM) *
Woodhams' proposal can't really be said to be helping the elderly or disabled - apart from a couple of minutes off the bus journey time. Nor will it save the bus company all that much, it doesn't seem worth the expense to me.
Apart from where it helps the elderly or disabled it can't really be said to be helping the elderly or disabled?

Seems like a case of "what have the Romans ever done for us", to me.
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dannyboy
post Jun 21 2011, 08:42 AM
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QUOTE (blackdog @ Jun 21 2011, 08:12 AM) *
Are you being deliberately obtuse RG? Woodhams' suggestion is pretty straightforward - though I'm far from sure that there aren't better uses for the money in the current economic climate.

Of course he is - it goes with the territory.

The question is pretty obvious really - is it worth spending any cash to stop the busses having to double back on themselves. What Pound St has to do with it is anyones guess.
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Brewmaster
post Jun 21 2011, 09:44 AM
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QUOTE (Richard Garvie @ Jun 21 2011, 09:02 AM) *
[snipped]I use buses on a regular basis (just not peak times when it's quicker to walk into Newbury), and I have followed this with interest since it was first muted as the lower way scheme.

Come on, Richard. At the risk of being accused of being pedantic (I plead guilty!), I think that a prospective Parliamentary candidate should know that 'muted' means to have silenced someone or something.

The correct word is 'mooted'.

Of course, it may be official Labour Party policy to mute all opposition!

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Richard Garvie
post Jun 21 2011, 10:55 AM
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QUOTE (dannyboy @ Jun 21 2011, 08:42 AM) *
Of course he is - it goes with the territory.

The question is pretty obvious really - is it worth spending any cash to stop the busses having to double back on themselves. What Pound St has to do with it is anyones guess.


You are making the same mistakes as the Lib Dems. Youjust don't do detail.

POUND LANE is a road that is used by service 102, which would be diverted if Keith Woodhms got his way. It goes from Lower Way by the sewage works (and the CCTV that faces into the hedge) up to Henwick Sports field).

Buses don't double back on themselves. Name one route that does? I simply can't believe that a bus would come out of the hospital, go up the A4 and around the roundabout before heading the opposite way along the A4.

Where is the mandate for this money to be spent? Who is requesting these changes or is it just an idea from the Lib Dems? Why would a new access to the hospital benefit buses leaving the hospital?

PS. I actually use these bus routes, do you or Keith?
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dannyboy
post Jun 21 2011, 11:04 AM
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QUOTE (Richard Garvie @ Jun 21 2011, 11:55 AM) *
You are making the same mistakes as the Lib Dems. Youjust don't do detail.

POUND LANE is a road that is used by service 102, which would be diverted if Keith Woodhms got his way. It goes from Lower Way by the sewage works (and the CCTV that faces into the hedge) up to Henwick Sports field).

Buses don't double back on themselves. Name one route that does? I simply can't believe that a bus would come out of the hospital, go up the A4 and around the roundabout before heading the opposite way along the A4.

Where is the mandate for this money to be spent? Who is requesting these changes or is it just an idea from the Lib Dems? Why would a new access to the hospital benefit buses leaving the hospital?

PS. I actually use these bus routes, do you or Keith?

I suggest you read what you post, detail is fine, but get it right.

Currently there is a bus service that routes via the Thatcham Wyevale Garden Centre roundabout, along Turnpike Road into the West Berkshire Hospital and onto Newbury.
“To pick up passengers at the bus stop at Benham Hill where both elderly and people with disabilities live, the bus has to come out of the hospital, turn left drive up to the garden centre roundabout and back along the A4 to Benham Hill and on to Newbury.


ie the bus goes round the Wyevale roundabout twice.

I know where Pound Lane is, thanks. Why should a bus lane & entry to the Hospital off the A4 mean the buses no longer come along Lower Way?
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user23
post Jun 21 2011, 11:38 AM
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QUOTE (Richard Garvie @ Jun 21 2011, 11:55 AM) *
You are making the same mistakes as the Lib Dems. Youjust don't do detail.

POUND LANE is a road that is used by service 102, which would be diverted if Keith Woodhms got his way. It goes from Lower Way by the sewage works (and the CCTV that faces into the hedge) up to Henwick Sports field).

Buses don't double back on themselves. Name one route that does? I simply can't believe that a bus would come out of the hospital, go up the A4 and around the roundabout before heading the opposite way along the A4.

Where is the mandate for this money to be spent? Who is requesting these changes or is it just an idea from the Lib Dems? Why would a new access to the hospital benefit buses leaving the hospital?

PS. I actually use these bus routes, do you or Keith?
Hang on, haven't you said in the past you live on Pound Lane, Thatcham?

Aren't you really kicking up a fuss because you'll have to walk a bit more to get the bus, whilst the elderly and disabled won't. If this is the case, how selfish.
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Richard Garvie
post Jun 21 2011, 11:39 AM
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QUOTE (dannyboy @ Jun 21 2011, 11:04 AM) *
I suggest you read what you post, detail is fine, but get it right.

Currently there is a bus service that routes via the Thatcham Wyevale Garden Centre roundabout, along Turnpike Road into the West Berkshire Hospital and onto Newbury.
“To pick up passengers at the bus stop at Benham Hill where both elderly and people with disabilities live, the bus has to come out of the hospital, turn left drive up to the garden centre roundabout and back along the A4 to Benham Hill and on to Newbury.


ie the bus goes round the Wyevale roundabout twice.

I know where Pound Lane is, thanks. Why should a bus lane & entry to the Hospital off the A4 mean the buses no longer come along Lower Way?


Have a look at the exec meetings prior to the election and what the Lib Dems were proposing almost every meeting.

I know what the suggestion is Dannyboy, but how many buses per day (if any) turn left onto the A4, drive to the wyevale roundabout, do a u turn and come back down the A4 towards Newbury? That is what Keith has said on Newbury Today, I would like to know how many buses do it. I use these bus services on a regular basis, and this has NEVER happened.
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dannyboy
post Jun 21 2011, 11:44 AM
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QUOTE (Richard Garvie @ Jun 21 2011, 12:39 PM) *
Have a look at the exec meetings prior to the election and what the Lib Dems were proposing almost every meeting.

I know what the suggestion is Dannyboy, but how many buses per day (if any) turn left onto the A4, drive to the wyevale roundabout, do a u turn and come back down the A4 towards Newbury? That is what Keith has said on Newbury Today, I would like to know how many buses do it. I use these bus services on a regular basis, and this has NEVER happened.

Most likely because the driver on his approach to the roundabout the first time checks the Benham Hill stop for waiting passengers.

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Richard Garvie
post Jun 21 2011, 11:49 AM
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But if buses were heading to hospital, then coming back for the stop, could take four / five minutes. What is people waited to see bus enter hospital from their window, then walked out to bus stop?

Are you suggesting bus drivers do not follow the set route?
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dannyboy
post Jun 21 2011, 11:51 AM
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QUOTE (Richard Garvie @ Jun 21 2011, 12:49 PM) *
But if buses were heading to hospital, then coming back for the stop, could take four / five minutes. What is people waited to see bus enter hospital from their window, then walked out to bus stop?

Are you suggesting bus drivers do not follow the set route?


You mean like you are?
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Richard Garvie
post Jun 21 2011, 01:03 PM
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QUOTE (dannyboy @ Jun 21 2011, 11:51 AM) *
You mean like you are?


I have a bus map on the piano, my partner calls me a bus spotter because I have the West Berks bus handbook and map, but who's laughing now, huh???

In all seriousness, twelve buses per day will benefit from this (confirmed by transport services). Is it worth spending a large chunk of money for the benefit of just twelve buses per day?
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dannyboy
post Jun 21 2011, 01:40 PM
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QUOTE (Richard Garvie @ Jun 21 2011, 02:03 PM) *
I have a bus map on the piano, my partner calls me a bus spotter because I have the West Berks bus handbook and map, but who's laughing now, huh???

In all seriousness, twelve buses per day will benefit from this (confirmed by transport services). Is it worth spending a large chunk of money for the benefit of just twelve buses per day?

In the light of the reduction to local bus services announced in the last few weeks, further cuts/changes to routes are likely. There is much duplication of routes in the area of the Hospital.
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Phil_D11102
post Jun 21 2011, 03:35 PM
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Instead of adding more traffic lights, delays to traffic due to construction for a simple 1 or 2 minute trip, how about providing low cost school buses for school kids.

Seeing how the council has some left over money, why not put it to good use to keep more cars off the roads so the traffic moves smoother?

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