What is the point of them in an emergency? Options

[GMR]

Exactly how long did it take?

Well over a minute.

Why did you need a police officer to confirm something you'd seen with your own eyes?

I didn't, it was the other way around.

[Andy Capp]

All this is why I suggested that the emergency services have control from the control room so that they can be lowered in a timely manner (at the time the alert is sent).

[Simon Kirby]

First; I've timed it, secondly I've had it confirmed by a police officer. Now we've confirmed and verified this another issue we can add is that if the police are speeding in a certain area pedestrians get out of the way fast, just as they do an any vehicle road.

You actually asked a police office responding to an emergency to time the lowering of the bollards?

[spartacus]

Check with WBC Highways if you want but here are four facts:

Berkshire Fire & Rescue have been issued transponders which operate the rising bollards for the pedestrian zone and on Kennet Heath in Thatcham - FACT

Berkshire Ambulance Service have been issued transponders which operate the rising bollards for the pedestrian zone and on Kennet Heath in Thatcham - FACT

Thames Valley Police have been issued transponders which operate the rising bollards for the pedestrian zone and on Kennet Heath - FACT

Some coppers get all excited when responding to a shout that they forget that they still have to drive up to the receiving unit in order to activate the mechanism which drops the bollards (well within 20 seconds) and instead think there should be a magic invisible zone for 100 metres in front of their panda car clearing their path even when rushing to pick up some fish and chips. Some coppers (edit) are dickheads need additional training - FACT

[nerc]

There are only 2 rising bollards, the other 2 (on Macdonalds side) are plastic are are put in place by the green meanies every day.
They are not fixed and can be move just by nudging them with a car so why couldnt the police car move them.

[spartacus]

I disagree. If it is an emergency then they should. If it was my child or even yours and they had died or suffered because they didn't over ride safety traffic regulations we wouldn't be sitting around and saying they did the right thing. We would be going for the jugular, and rightly so.

Rubbish. Responding to 'Emergency A' as quickly as possible doesn't mean you should leave a trail of 'Emergency B's, 'C's and 'D's in your wake for others to deal with. If they put pedestrians at risk in an area and at a time when vehicles are not meant to be there, especially if there could be elderly or deaf people walking about, then they shouldn't be behind the wheel of a police vehicle.

Being a police response vehicle driver means making judgement calls and balancing risks. Speeding through a pedestrian area isn't clever if you want to keep your police pension. If the area was clear because it was raining and most shoppers were inside that may be worth the risk. Otherwise, you enter the area on 'blues' and sirens but travel slowly and assume someone might accidentally step into your path.

Are you sure these were proper policemen you saw and it wasn't some Keystone Cops Re-enactment Society members larking about? Are PCSOs allowed to drive police cars?

[spartacus]

Today I witnessed a police car speeding from the Clock Tower towards town and then had to do a quick swerve, mount the pavement - pedestrians had to jump out of the way

There is also the danger of mounting the pavement and hitting a pedestrian.

I hope those people that had to dive out of the way make a complaint to the Chief Constable. Sounds like that police driver was acting irresponsibly and was probably driving under the influence of caffeine and jam doughnuts. A post-Tesco shopping trip 'sugar rush' for bored police on duty is like an adrenalin rush for normal people. The police car should be impounded and the steering wheel checked for traces of strawberry jam or castor sugar....

[GMR]

You actually asked a police office responding to an emergency to time the lowering of the bollards?

Don't be stupid. I doubt very much a police officer would answer such a question during an emergency.

[GMR]

There are only 2 rising bollards, the other 2 (on Macdonalds side) are plastic are are put in place by the green meanies every day.
They are not fixed and can be move just by nudging them with a car so why couldnt the police car move them.

I can only answer to what I saw.

[Simon Kirby]

Don't be stupid. I doubt very much a police officer would answer such a question during a emergency.

I see. So when you said that a police officer had confirmed your timing, that didn't happen? Or was it that the police car was't actually on an emergency call and so didn't need to lower the bollards?

[GMR]

I see. So when you said that a police officer had confirmed your timing, that didn't happen? Or was it that the police car was't actually on an emergency call and so didn't need to lower the bollards?

Did I say that? I said they happened, but I didn't say they happen at the same time. As for the police car; I can only go by the flashing lights and driving around the bollards, on to the pavement and then to their destination.

The emergency happened when I said. Asking the officer happened on another day when I was having a conversation with him.

[Simon Kirby]

Did I say that? I said they happened, but I didn't say they happen at the same time. As for the police car; I can only go by the flashing lights and driving around the bollards, on to the pavement and then to their destination.

The emergency happened when I said. Asking the officer happened on another day when I was having a conversation with him.

Have you actually timed the lowering of the bollards under emergency conditions with a constable there to verify your timing?

[GMR]

Have you actually timed the lowering of the bollards under emergency conditions with a constable there to verify your timing?

First of all I timed them when I saw them being used; it was an of chance. If you are suggesting that the action is very quick then why didn't the police go through the proper procedure? It wasn't the first time they couldn't wait.

[Biker1]

This debate could take us back to the level crossing issue.
Emergency vehicles are always going to come up against obstacles, bollards in the town just one of many.
What if your emergency was on the other side of a closed level crossing?
An issue raised in the level crossing debate threads before.
I would suggest that much more time is lost by avoiding jammed traffic on the A339.
Even more when another unnecessary roundabout and lights are installed!

[Simon Kirby]

First of all I timed them when I saw them being used; it was an of chance. If you are suggesting that the action is very quick then why didn't the police go through the proper procedure? It wasn't the first time they couldn't wait.

I'm not suggesting anything, I'm trying to establish your scientific method. You claimed that a police officer had verified your timing experiment and you implied the timing was performed under emergency conditions but that seemed to me unlikely and what seemed more plausible was that you'd made some kind of guestimation of the timing and then separately engaged an officer in a bollard-related discussion in which the officer had offered her subjective view that, in the same way a watched kettle will never boil, so the bollards appear to her to take forever to descend when she's on an emergency call and, pumped with adrenalin, desparately waiting for the bollards to lower. That or the officer just politely agreed with you. Either way it wasn't the objective validation of your experimental evidence that you made it out to be. So then I'd ask why, if your scientific method was sound, would you try and bolster it with an unsubstantiated claim that it had been independently verified by a Thames Valley Police observer, and the most likely answer is a lack of soundness.

You made a specific claim about timing which has been disputed and I'm just trying to see if your claim has substance.

[spartacus]

^

[spartacus]

In answer to the question 'what is the point of them in an emergency', the point is that there are procedures in place to allow them to be lowered in an emergency but these procedures need to be followed. This information either is no longer passed across to new police officers patrolling in Newbury on their shift change or is being forgotten in the heat of the moment during a response.

There is no machine for the police to have to push a ticket into. All they have to do is dig the transponder (credit card sized piece of plastic) out of their glove box and wave it at the receiving unit while the car is on the vehicle detection loop and the bollards will lower. It takes seconds.

[user23]

First of all I timed them when I saw them being used; it was an of chance. If you are suggesting that the action is very quick then why didn't the police go through the proper procedure? It wasn't the first time they couldn't wait.

As I asked before, how long did it take?

You don't have to be exact, to the nearest second will do.

[blackdog]

In answer to the question 'what is the point of them in an emergency', the point is that there are procedures in place to allow them to be lowered in an emergency but these procedures need to be followed.

This is not really the answer - the answer to "What is the point of the bollards in an emergency?" Is either that they have no point in an emergency, their point is to stop traffic using Northbrook Street - or - by preventing traffic from entering Northbrook Street they ensure that emergency vehicles are not stuck in a traffic jam in Northbrook Street and thus enable them to get to the emergency more quickly.

What is the issue - police car drives on pavement to get to emergency - the whole of Northbrook Street is a pavement when the bollards are up, so what's so special about the bit around the bollards? I've watched them drive round the bollards - pedestrians seemed to get the idea and get out of the way pretty sharpish!

[HJD]

There is no machine for the police to have to push a ticket into. All they have to do is dig the transponder (credit card sized piece of plastic) out of their glove box and wave it at the receiving unit while the car is on the vehicle detection loop and the bollards will lower. It takes seconds.

They are not fool proof though ! As I witnessed a while ago when a couple of P.C's. were frantically waving their Zapper to no avail at the Bollard's in Braemore Close. They didn't look too amused, as with Siren wailing they had to do a U turn & zoom off from whence they came !!