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> I don't believe it!
TallDarkAndHands...
post Aug 25 2010, 08:04 AM
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11076674

WTF - So hang on. You have a convicted person who is a known MENTALLY ILL VIOLENT CRIMINAL. I know what we'll do - Let them out to mix with all and sundry but hey at least we will know where they are when they strangle / murder / rape some innocenet member of society. This may have been 'successful' to start with but its only a matter of time.... angry.gif
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DrPepper
post Aug 25 2010, 08:35 AM
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Yep, that'll work and even better we wont infringe their human rights.
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Iommi
post Aug 25 2010, 10:39 AM
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I don't understand the idea of releasing violent mentality ill people either! I think Newbury have some that are yet to noticed as well!
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Bloggo
post Aug 25 2010, 11:04 AM
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A great many of these people are only able to maintain a degree of acceptable stability because of the drugs that they are taking. Once away from a disciplined environment where their drug intake is monitored many of them will decide not to take the drugs anymore because either they don't think that they need tem anymore or to see how they get on without them. Either way at that point they become a threat to the "normal" people around them.
It is a recipe for disaster and a very niave decision.


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Bofem
post Aug 25 2010, 12:22 PM
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Suggest you read this, before you start trying to outdo the Daily Mail. This woman was locked up 25 yrs ago for stabbing someone, but goes on shopping trips in Newbury.

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/he...ere-574351.html

If the only way she could go out was with a tag, would you honestly feel endangered?

Mind you, this is a little out of date, as Thornford Park is transferring all female inmates.
http://healthdirectory.cqc.org.uk/_db/_doc...%20Hospital.pdf


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Iommi
post Aug 25 2010, 12:28 PM
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QUOTE (Bofem @ Aug 25 2010, 01:22 PM) *
Suggest you read this, before you start trying to outdo the Daily Mail. This woman was locked up 25 yrs ago for stabbing someone, but goes on shopping trips in Newbury.

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/he...ere-574351.html

If the only way she could go out was with a tag, would you honestly feel endangered?

Mind you, this is a little out of date, as Thornford Park is transferring all female inmates.
http://healthdirectory.cqc.org.uk/_db/_doc...%20Hospital.pdf

What is your point? None of this changes mine.
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Bloggo
post Aug 25 2010, 12:50 PM
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QUOTE (Iommi @ Aug 25 2010, 01:28 PM) *
What is your point? None of this changes mine.

Me neither. Good lord iommi we are agreeing on something. wink.gif


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HeatherW
post Aug 29 2010, 06:51 PM
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Releasing criminals back into the community is cheaper than keep them in. If he should recommit then back inside. That is always going to be the cheapest option.
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On the edge
post Aug 30 2010, 11:07 AM
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QUOTE (HeatherW @ Aug 29 2010, 07:51 PM) *
Releasing criminals back into the community is cheaper than keep them in. If he should recommit then back inside. That is always going to be the cheapest option.


Not convinced that keeping them inside needs to be an expensive option. It is today, granted but it depends on the regime.


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user23
post Aug 30 2010, 01:06 PM
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QUOTE (On the edge @ Aug 30 2010, 12:07 PM) *
Not convinced that keeping them inside needs to be an expensive option. It is today, granted but it depends on the regime.
Putting a roof over someone's head and giving them two or three meals a day is always going to be reasonably expensive.
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On the edge
post Aug 30 2010, 01:12 PM
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QUOTE (user23 @ Aug 30 2010, 02:06 PM) *
Putting a roof over someone's head and giving them two or three meals a day is always going to be reasonably expensive.


A cost agreed, but balanced against the cost of correcting what petty criminals do over time its often justified. I know this will cause some misgivings but a prison regime which is really harsh - i.e. cells with concrete floors and just basic bedding, and three meals per day comprising of repetitive basic rations wouldn't be particularly costly. Heating to base HSE standard and a heavy work plan. Would get rid of the idea that prison is a rest camp and would also reduce the cost of building them - ex army camps would be ideal.


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Bloggo
post Aug 31 2010, 07:46 AM
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QUOTE (On the edge @ Aug 30 2010, 02:12 PM) *
A cost agreed, but balanced against the cost of correcting what petty criminals do over time its often justified. I know this will cause some misgivings but a prison regime which is really harsh - i.e. cells with concrete floors and just basic bedding, and three meals per day comprising of repetitive basic rations wouldn't be particularly costly. Heating to base HSE standard and a heavy work plan. Would get rid of the idea that prison is a rest camp and would also reduce the cost of building them - ex army camps would be ideal.

This makes a lot of sense and I have no misgivings about it.


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user23
post Aug 31 2010, 07:56 PM
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QUOTE (On the edge @ Aug 30 2010, 02:12 PM) *
A cost agreed, but balanced against the cost of correcting what petty criminals do over time its often justified. I know this will cause some misgivings but a prison regime which is really harsh - i.e. cells with concrete floors and just basic bedding, and three meals per day comprising of repetitive basic rations wouldn't be particularly costly. Heating to base HSE standard and a heavy work plan. Would get rid of the idea that prison is a rest camp and would also reduce the cost of building them - ex army camps would be ideal.
I think you'd be surprised how much it costs. Then there's the cost of buying the land and building new prisons to accommodate all these petty criminals.

Of course once inside it gives small time crooks a chance to mingle with others and those further up the food chain helping them perfect their art and giving them a valuable network of contacts once back on the outside.
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On the edge
post Aug 31 2010, 09:42 PM
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QUOTE (user23 @ Aug 31 2010, 08:56 PM) *
I think you'd be surprised how much it costs. Then there's the cost of buying the land and building new prisons to accommodate all these petty criminals.

Of course once inside it gives small time crooks a chance to mingle with others and those further up the food chain helping them perfect their art and giving them a valuable network of contacts once back on the outside.


Once things got underway on the basis that it should work, the costs would fall - wouldn't need as many. Very basic construction and a diy approach by inmates could keep cost under control. Mingling with others - Reading prison was actually built on the 'solitary system' designed to avoid that. Hence the treadmill there had separate compartments to stop any association. Treadmill needn't go to waste these days if it was connected to a generator. Again, not nice, but that's what its all about. Not inhumane but very very tough. We often forget the prime purpose of punishment isn't to rehabilitate. More as retribution to avenge the wrongdoers deeds and as a deterent to others.


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user23
post Sep 1 2010, 06:25 AM
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QUOTE (On the edge @ Aug 31 2010, 10:42 PM) *
Once things got underway on the basis that it should work, the costs would fall - wouldn't need as many. Very basic construction and a diy approach by inmates could keep cost under control. Mingling with others - Reading prison was actually built on the 'solitary system' designed to avoid that. Hence the treadmill there had separate compartments to stop any association. Treadmill needn't go to waste these days if it was connected to a generator. Again, not nice, but that's what its all about. Not inhumane but very very tough. We often forget the prime purpose of punishment isn't to rehabilitate. More as retribution to avenge the wrongdoers deeds and as a deterent to others.
Let's say for example I didn't pay a parking ticket or my council tax, I'm not sure locking me up for 23 hours a day is going to make me want to contribute to society any more, in fact it might make me want to learn from my fellow inmates how to contribute less.

You're probably going to reply "I didn't mean that sort of crime" however if you're going to operate a zero tolerance approach to wrong doing it has to be across the board.
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Bloggo
post Sep 1 2010, 07:34 AM
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QUOTE (user23 @ Sep 1 2010, 07:25 AM) *
Let's say for example I didn't pay a parking ticket or my council tax, I'm not sure locking me up for 23 hours a day is going to make me want to contribute to society any more, in fact it might make me want to learn from my fellow inmates how to contribute less.

You're probably going to reply "I didn't mean that sort of crime" however if you're going to operate a zero tolerance approach to wrong doing it has to be across the board.

Well if you didn't learn that respecting the law is what the requirement is and re-offended then you would go back inside for another term. I'm sure you would learn in the end.


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TallDarkAndHands...
post Sep 1 2010, 08:07 AM
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QUOTE (Bloggo @ Sep 1 2010, 08:34 AM) *
Well if you didn't learn that respecting the law is what the requirement is and re-offended then you would go back inside for another term. I'm sure you would learn in the end.


Quite agree Bloggo. Perhaps we should build a few of these to distinguish between violent crime and non payment of fines. laugh.gif

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debtors'_prison
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Bloggo
post Sep 1 2010, 08:20 AM
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QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Sep 1 2010, 09:07 AM) *
Quite agree Bloggo. Perhaps we should build a few of these to distinguish between violent crime and non payment of fines. laugh.gif

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debtors'_prison

Great idea. But I'm sure there would be plenty of space available after a few years as the crims won't want to go back after a spell of hard labour.


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On the edge
post Sep 1 2010, 04:19 PM
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QUOTE (user23 @ Sep 1 2010, 07:25 AM) *
Let's say for example I didn't pay a parking ticket or my council tax, I'm not sure locking me up for 23 hours a day is going to make me want to contribute to society any more, in fact it might make me want to learn from my fellow inmates how to contribute less.

You're probably going to reply "I didn't mean that sort of crime" however if you're going to operate a zero tolerance approach to wrong doing it has to be across the board.


Its a final penalty, yes for both criminal and civil matters after due process. You can go to gaol for non payment of Community Charges as a final action for instance. Again, nothing wrong with that and might bring a bit of discipline to the financial services industry and its customers. As for the 'university of crime' concept - that's why I mentioned the 'separation system' which was in place 1840s onwards - once inside, you didn't talk to anyone save the warder or the chaplin. So you'd have a fair time to contemplate the error of your ways!


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user23
post Sep 1 2010, 06:58 PM
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QUOTE (On the edge @ Sep 1 2010, 05:19 PM) *
once inside, you didn't talk to anyone save the warder or the chaplin. So you'd have a fair time to contemplate the error of your ways!
Or plot how you're going to get back at those that put you inside.
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