£90,000 well spent? Options

[Strafin]

And because I think your comment is wrong, I must be drunk? That's another example of your arrogance.

[Andy Capp]

And because I think your comment is wrong, I must be drunk? That's another example of your arrogance.

Hyperbole like you posted at the time you did is often an example of someone who's had a few; however, just hurling abuse without an explanation is not only arrogant, it is bloody rude too. You have done this before and when asked you didn't give any explanation then either.

You posted:

This is possibly the stupidest post I have ever read on this forum. Maybe even the whole internet.

I think I can find examples that are far more deserving of that title than my post; one obnoxious example is not too far away from here.

[Strafin]

Hyperbole like you posted at the time you did is often an example of someone who's had a few; however, just hurling abuse without an explanation is not only arrogant, it is bloody rude too. You have done this before and when asked you didn't give any explanation then either.

You posted:


I think I can find examples that are far more deserving of that title than my post; one obnoxious example is not too far away from here.

Your post implies that anyone who has an impairment is incapable of looking after themselves. And that to get away from a carer they need a little note from WBC as their own wouldn't be good enough. I think that is obnoxious and uniformed. I still do, and I didn't get personal until you did. As for history, I don't recall refusing to explain myself, but so what if I did? I think if we have a look at history you have caused more upset than me, but as it is a public forum we are both free to write pretty much what we like. But we have to accept that others might not like it.

[Andy Capp]

Your post implies that anyone who has an impairment is incapable of looking after themselves. And that to get away from a carer they need a little note from WBC as their own wouldn't be good enough.

Really, perhaps you could show me where that is then?

I did say that a message with WBC's endorsement would carry more weight than a self penned note. This has nothing to do with judging the capability of the user AT ALL. This is about treating the user with more respect than they otherwise might.

I then went on to explain how I felt about the apparent bad attitude of some bus drivers and what might lie behind it. Nothing to do with people with difficulties there either.

I think that is obnoxious and uniformed.

As this is based on a lie I have nothing to add at this point in time.

I still do, and I didn't get personal until you did.

You called my post idiotic, that sounds like you getting personal first, unless you can show me where on this thread I insulted you before then?

As for history, I don't recall refusing to explain myself, but so what if I did? I think if we have a look at history you have caused more upset than me, but as it is a public forum we are both free to write pretty much what we like. But we have to accept that others might not like it.

I didn't say you refused to reply, that is another lie, but I don't care if you agree or not, just explain yourself would do, but comments like the most idiotic post ever read on the Internet is complete hyperbole, notwithstanding ill-informed.

The problem seems you read what you thought you saw, not what was written, I therefore question your comprehension skills. I get like that sometimes if I've had a drink.


If you read the article it would seem it is quite a popular idea amongst the users too:

"The council says that the cards have been designed to help improve the experience of residents when taking the bus, and to help them grow their confidence and independence when travelling alone.

West Berkshire’s executive member for Transport Policy, Hilary Cole, said: “The Safer Journey Cards have been made available to residents taking part in the Personalised Travel Planning project in the south of Newbury, and have proven to be one of the most requested items.

“They are a simple way to make people’s lives and journeys easier.

“ We are encouraging anyone who might benefit from this facility or community groups to request cards.”

The use of the cards are supported by various bus operators within the district. The council plans to hold an event in Newbury later this year to promote both the Safer Journey Card and bus travel."

[On the edge]

Ummm, given how the Council and it's publicity machine like to play with numbers as we've noticed in so many other threads I'd live to see the numbers. How many 'ideas' have been implemented and how many are really being used would be a nice start. Sorry WBC, nothing you now say can be taken at face value.

Then, I would also like to know what WBC and the Bus Company propose to do about the apparent root cause of this problem; unfriendly drivers?

Indeed, if this is such a success, do they intend to build on it and quickly roll the scheme out to cover doctors receptionists, shop assistants, library staff etc.

I think we know the answer! Yes, the solution is cheap, in more ways than one.

[Andy Capp]

Unfriendly drivers is an assumption. The principle of the policy is to try to encourage people with difficulties to be more mobile, I believe. I see the cards as an inexpensive idea that might eventually become normal and where you might see others actually 'manufacturing' their own message cards. It might also just disappear of course!

However, why must it be an either or situation, I'd like to see initiatives like those you described earlier too: bus locating systems and the like.

[On the edge]

Unfriendly drivers is an assumption. The principle of the policy is to try to encourage people with difficulties to be more mobile, I believe. I see the cards as an inexpensive idea that might eventually become normal and where you might see others actually 'manufacturing' their own message cards. It might also just disappear of course!

However, why must it be an either or situation, I'd like to see initiatives like those you described earlier too: bus locating systems and the like.

If the drivers are treating all customers with respect; which if course is the essence of the various disability legislation, there should be absolutely no need for the cards. I can't see one phrase that shouldn't really be normal behaviour - even the wait until I sit down before pulling off. For able bodied users this is just as difficult and awkward.

As a general technique, for people with difficulties, suggesting they might use alternative methods of communication is good, of course. That is (or at least was) done as a matter of course.

I have no trouble with the fact that someone is reacting to comments made by disadvantaged users, but before rushing to what they perceive to be a solution, a little more thought and analysis would have been helpful. First question, why are they saying that?

[spartacus]

You're taking my earlier comment as gospel when in fact it was no more than a generalisation about SOME bus drivers.... From my experience some people who work at the checkout in the local shop are also miserable feckers and some people who post on web forums are total tossers....but that doesn't mean YOU are...(exhausted or OTE or whichever one of you has taken such offence. )

The comment could be equally relevant when referring to the bus passengers waiting in the queue to board behind the person with the disability. Being held up for 45 seconds while someone with a speech impediment (my example) or other disability struggles to get the words out or change out can seem like it's a massive amount of time - when it's only the same small 45 seconds.... but enough time for at least three loud 'huffs' from the impatient.

The driver can in truth be a shining example of tolerance but all it needs is a huff from behind or a glare from the passenger already sat in his seat and being 'delayed' and I would imagine someone who has difficulties in those situations may feel even more self-conscious and will perhaps be reluctant to go through it again.


Perhaps...just perhaps .... a few of those people who are entitled to free taxis (provided at public expense) may decide to jump on a bus instead if they feel that a simple card can help them (something you may take for granted - if you even use a bus!)

Perhaps then, a few cheap printed cards could save a considerable amount being spent on providing transport for the disabled. Perhaps then it becomes an initiative that instead of spending huge amounts ( ) of public money actually turns out to be a method of saving from a different area?

[On the edge]

You are quite right of course, bad customer service does not come from all staff. Let's just say in some fields of endeavour the percentage of poorly behaving staff is higher than others, which then becomes institutionalised. For instance, Doctors Receptionists as a generic group don't get a good press. Similarly, the reaction of other customers in the queue behind can be aggravating and can cause a loss of confidence, of course.

The 'flash card' scheme addresses a specific industry; whereas the problem is actually generic. Yes, it's a minimal cost and I'm sure has the support of disability help groups. If this is an issue I trust the scheme does not simply stop where it is. Similarly, the bus companies should also be taking heed and doing something to eliminate the need for some of the phrases used.

What this all means is that this scheme should not be used to grandstand the Transport Project the Council has undertaken. It's not acceptable to use what is frankly a quick cheap fix which will play to emotion to justify this scheme.

To me, that actually says, nothing of real value is emerging and we might as well have put £90 grand down the grid.

I wonder what those people protesting at cuts to critical disability services outside the Market Place office a while back would have done with the money?

[On the edge]

I've just seen that WBCs needy OAP meals on wheels provision is stopping because the £90 grand a year it needs has been cut!

Now what would you rather have? Meals on wheels with a quick check on vulnerable OAPs .... or a bunch of yoo hoos banging on doors trying to get people to stop using their cars but use their bike instead! As they say, you couldn't make it up!

[Turin Machine]

The elderly and vulnerable are always the ones that will suffer, after all, if WBC are going to save the Planet someone has to pay.

[Simon Kirby]

I've just seen that WBCs needy OAP meals on wheels provision is stopping because the £90 grand a year it needs has been cut!

Now what would you rather have? Meals on wheels with a quick check on vulnerable OAPs .... or a bunch of yoo hoos banging on doors trying to get people to stop using their cars but use their bike instead! As they say, you couldn't make it up!

Perhaps the town council could help. Getting rid of the mayor could net £90k without any hardship at all, and it wouldn't be difficult to find £250k with allotment self-management, dropping the charter market, and a move from the Gothic mansion that they all rattle around in, and still no one would notice any loss of service. Still, feeding old biddies hot meals isn't that important, and I guess they can always eat cake.

[Exhausted]

The Apetito meals for the old folk was not free. Each meal was invoiced at the end of the week directly to the pensioner. As far as I know and I may be wrong here, there was no general subsidy from the council.
I understand that it is a commercial decision taken by the Apetito company although for some reason, they are still supplying Hampshire users from their Newbury depot. Does this suggest that Basingstoke and Dene are supplementing the companies income and that WBC are not.
They, Apetito, recommend using a Wiltshire company that supplies frozen meals. That suggests that the customer is capable of using a microwave but a good few of them certainly are not or they would probably be cooking their own meals anyway.
It is a loss of a lifesaver for a lot of the old biddies as Simon calls them, but these are people who have paid their dues all their lives have perhaps become frail and have lost a lot of their abilities. Their relatives are trying to give them their independence living at home but I suspect the cost to WBC will be heavy as these persons will probably now end up in care homes..

But, good on Fairclose for filling the void but as it will be all volunteer work, I wonder how long that will last.

[Simon Kirby]

It is a loss of a lifesaver for a lot of the old biddies as Simon calls them, but these are people who have paid their dues all their lives have perhaps become frail and have lost a lot of their abilities.

I was being ironic - I hope that was clear, and I agree entirely with your point.

[Turin Machine]

Thankfully, lots of very good volunteers around Newbury.

[On the edge]

The Apetito meals for the old folk was not free. Each meal was invoiced at the end of the week directly to the pensioner. As far as I know and I may be wrong here, there was no general subsidy from the council.
I understand that it is a commercial decision taken by the Apetito company although for some reason, they are still supplying Hampshire users from their Newbury depot. Does this suggest that Basingstoke and Dene are supplementing the companies income and that WBC are not.
They, Apetito, recommend using a Wiltshire company that supplies frozen meals. That suggests that the customer is capable of using a microwave but a good few of them certainly are not or they would probably be cooking their own meals anyway.
It is a loss of a lifesaver for a lot of the old biddies as Simon calls them, but these are people who have paid their dues all their lives have perhaps become frail and have lost a lot of their abilities. Their relatives are trying to give them their independence living at home but I suspect the cost to WBC will be heavy as these persons will probably now end up in care homes..

But, good on Fairclose for filling the void but as it will be all volunteer work, I wonder how long that will last.

Yes, West Berks have stopped the subsidy (as you call it) Basingstoke haven't. I suspect that any organisation, public, private or not for profit would not be able to carry on delivering the service when it's original income stream is so massively reduced. Have a chat with your boss and see if she could.

The amount involved is £90,000 a year, and what ever financial game is being played, is arguably providing a component of the safety nets envisioned by the welfare proposals made in the middle of WW2. I know the son of one of the founders, she worked with the team working up the legislation. Meals on Wheels always served a double purpose, nutrition and the all important check. It gave our senior citizens a chance of independence.

WBC will doubtless try to distance themselves from the shabby decision to cut this service, wringing hands and claiming that it was down to the provider. Just as it does with the services cut from helping other needy people.

Simon Kirby was bring ironic and rightly highlighting other good examples of wholly unnecessary and totally unjustified expenditure. Let me add another, I wonder how they will feel parading this expensive finery on Rememberance Sunday, knowing that this service has been cut just in time for 'those left behind'.

Sorry, yet another example of a service that would be far safer and better delivered nationally without local government meddling.

[Exhausted]

I wasn't being critical of the old Biddies label, just thought that if Simon could use it so could I and I thought it a little amusing as well.
However Simon, if one has aspirations to be a politician, that would not be, in today's parlance, politically correct.

[Exhausted]

Yes, West Berks have stopped the subsidy (as you call it) Basingstoke haven't. I suspect that any organisation, public, private or not for profit would not be able to carry on delivering the service when it's original income stream is so massively reduced. Have a chat with your boss and see if she could.

I'm not blaming Apetito for the loss of service. They are not a charitable organisation and have to fund their operation to pay drivers and to finance vehicles in addition to providing hot meals.

I will however as you suggest, have a chat with my boss and see if there is anything she can do.

[On the edge]

Actually, this whole saga makes me very angry. This is gesture politics of the worst kind. We sneak in a drastic cut to OAP meal provision because of austerity, yet trumpet and laud much unnecessary spending on meals for fit kids! Look at what's happened at some local schools, where perfectly adequate kitchens have been massively re-equipped at an enormous cost. I've yet to see a school kitchen that couldn't cope with three times it's nominal role.

The actual benefit in doing this is doubtful to say the least and done of the arguments I've heard about encouraging manners / eating communally etc. etc. are simply spurious. Yet again, it seems the politicians don't think anyone is capable of bringing up their children properly. Little wonder then that some don't.

So, who gives a tinkers cuss that a few vulnerable OAPs loose out? Certainly not the coalition partners. Oh well, that's done me, several of you said it wasn't worth joining and trying to change within. Well, I have to say you were quite right

[Andy Capp]

That being said, many people these days have table manners of apes. I'm for school dinners, as is evident, people cannot feed children properly.