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J.D.Wetherspoon carpark (AKA Hatchet) |
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Aug 30 2012, 08:07 AM
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QUOTE (royston @ Aug 30 2012, 08:40 AM) Made the biggest mistake on Wed.went as usual to Hatchet for lunch,didnt have enough cash for parking meter so went in as usual to obtain cash but pub was very busy and only one person serving so it took a while to get served .when I got ticket and returned to car in their car park I found a penalty notice in my windscreen demanding £50. The operative must have been sitting in his/her vehicle and when I went into pub issued the ticket. Needless to say its highly improbable that I shall ever visit this pub again whilst they use these cowboy operators. Just ignore the ticket. See if they take you to court. Have a read here it may help. Boycott the pub though, as I would. Have you tried contacting the manager to see their take on it?
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Aug 30 2012, 09:57 AM
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QUOTE (Strafin @ Aug 30 2012, 10:55 AM) I would contact the management as well, they may be able to do something. I parked there on Saturday night and didn't even realise that I could have been clamped. Always read the small print Strafin! Remember, I got caught out by not doing that in a council "free" car park!
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Aug 30 2012, 11:53 AM
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QUOTE (Biker1 @ Aug 30 2012, 10:57 AM) Always read the small print Strafin! Remember, I got caught out by not doing that in a council "free" car park! The signs in the Hatchet are pretty big.......
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Aug 30 2012, 05:00 PM
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QUOTE (royston @ Aug 30 2012, 08:40 AM) Made the biggest mistake on Wed.went as usual to Hatchet for lunch,didnt have enough cash for parking meter so went in as usual to obtain cash but pub was very busy and only one person serving so it took a while to get served .when I got ticket and returned to car in their car park I found a penalty notice in my windscreen demanding £50. The operative must have been sitting in his/her vehicle and when I went into pub issued the ticket. Needless to say its highly improbable that I shall ever visit this pub again whilst they use these cowboy operators. You don't need to use the parking facilities in Newbury as their are plenty of free parking around.
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Aug 30 2012, 05:46 PM
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I read that a parking fine in a private car park is enforced as breach of contract: but is there a contract? If you haven't paid then there's no consideration and so no contract, no?
If the parking fine is for breach of contract then the carpark can only demand what it lost (the cost of parking) and reasonable administration, no? I'd have thought £20 was top-whack for sticking a ticken on the car, no? £50 looks to me like a punative "fine", and that's not enforceable is it - I'm pretty sure it's not fair under the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999.
In principle you could complain to WBC Trading Standards that the £50 "fine" is an unfair term under the Unfair Terms in Consumner Contracts Regulations 1999, though I doubt you'll get much joy.
I expect the pub to waive the ticket if you can prove to them that you were in there getting change for the meter, though if you can't it's hard to say that the pub is being unreasonable by insisting that you pay up, though I think £50 is way too much.
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Right an injustice - give Simon Kirby his allotment back!
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Aug 30 2012, 05:53 PM
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QUOTE (Simon Kirby @ Aug 30 2012, 06:46 PM) I expect the pub to waive the ticket if you can prove to them that you were in there getting change for the meter, though if you can't it's hard to say that the pub is being unreasonable by insisting that you pay up, though I think £50 is way too much. I suspect the 'parking management' is out-sourced.
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Aug 30 2012, 06:00 PM
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QUOTE (Simon Kirby @ Aug 30 2012, 06:46 PM) I read that a parking fine in a private car park is enforced as breach of contract: but is there a contract? If you haven't paid then there's no consideration and so no contract, no? Simon The "ticket" is not a fine. Nice thinking, but a contract is not disabled because one party has not yet paid!
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Aug 30 2012, 06:22 PM
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QUOTE (Newbelly @ Aug 30 2012, 07:00 PM) The "ticket" is not a fine. I didn't want to say "parking ticket" because that's what I'd call the the little piece of paper you get from the machine, I thought "parking fine" better described the bigger bit of paper the operative puts on your windscreen. No, it's not a "fine" in the sense of a statutory parking fine, but if £50 is in excess of the loss due to the breach and a reasonable sum to cover administration, then it looks to me like a punative charge and I don't believe that's enforceable as it's an unfair contract term. What do you think? QUOTE (Newbelly @ Aug 30 2012, 07:00 PM) Nice thinking, but a contract is not disabled because one party has not yet paid! From what's been said that's right in this case because there was a firm and settled intention to park and pay for a ticket, but just say for argument's sake that I parked there fully intending not to pay - aren't I just a trespasser? Could the car park owner prove there was a contract in that situation?
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Right an injustice - give Simon Kirby his allotment back!
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Aug 30 2012, 06:31 PM
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QUOTE (Simon Kirby @ Aug 30 2012, 07:22 PM) I didn't want to say "parking ticket" because that's what I'd call the the little piece of paper you get from the machine, I thought "parking fine" better described the bigger bit of paper the operative puts on your windscreen. No, it's not a "fine" in the sense of a statutory parking fine, but if £50 is in excess of the loss due to the breach and a reasonable sum to cover administration, then it looks to me like a punative charge and I don't believe that's enforceable as it's an unfair contract term. What do you think? It also might depend on what Strafin's parking prevented from happening. Strafin might have stopped for a coke and a bag of crisps, but meanwhile prevented someone from parking who might be prepared to buy a slap-up meal. QUOTE (Simon Kirby @ Aug 30 2012, 07:22 PM) From what's been said that's right in this case because there was a firm and settled intention to park and pay for a ticket, but just say for argument's sake that I parked there fully intending not to pay - aren't I just a trespasser? Could the car park owner prove there was a contract in that situation? No, because intent to pay up for a contract, or not, doesn't invalidate the broken contract from being a basis from which to proceed.
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Aug 30 2012, 06:47 PM
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QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Aug 30 2012, 07:31 PM) No, because intent to pay up for a contract, or not, doesn't invalidate the broken contract from being a basis from which to proceed. There is case law that says that, in effect, if you don't intend to pay it's trespass and there is no contract - see Vine v Waltham Forest.
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Right an injustice - give Simon Kirby his allotment back!
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Aug 30 2012, 07:00 PM
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QUOTE (Simon Kirby @ Aug 30 2012, 07:47 PM) There is case law that says that, in effect, if you don't intend to pay it's trespass and there is no contract - see Vine v Waltham Forest. That is not true in this example. An appeal was successful because the appeal judge was satisfied that the person parking the car was unaware of the likelihood of being clamped if they parked without paying. If you park knowing that you might be clamped if you don't make the appropriate payment, you in effect agree to the condition.
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