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> Jihadis allowed, Journalists not., We are in the excrement.
newres
post Mar 17 2018, 01:37 PM
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QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ Mar 17 2018, 01:05 PM) *
So, in a nutshell, the UK, NATO, USA, Europe in fact pretty much all of the western world including labours defence secretary believe it's Russia, but you believe an antiquated relic of the sixties. Sums you up really.

But the Uk won’t share their samples.
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Turin Machine
post Mar 17 2018, 01:42 PM
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QUOTE (newres @ Mar 17 2018, 01:37 PM) *
But the Uk won’t share their samples.

It wouldn't make a blind bit of difference if they did.


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newres
post Mar 17 2018, 02:41 PM
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QUOTE (Turin Machine @ Mar 17 2018, 01:42 PM) *
It wouldn't make a blind bit of difference if they did.

Well at least it would be open. Don't forgot the dodgy dossier as well as how close Porton Down is. Are we really saying that Putin authorised it? Where's the evidence? I'm not saying Russians aren't responsible, but to accuse the government seems bizarre at this stage. There's clearly corruption throughout and dodgy mafia/oligarchs here in the UK, but the clamour to condemn Putin is at best undiplomatic.
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SirWilliam
post Mar 17 2018, 03:39 PM
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QUOTE (newres @ Mar 17 2018, 02:41 PM) *
Well at least it would be open. Don't forgot the dodgy dossier as well as how close Porton Down is. Are we really saying that Putin authorised it? Where's the evidence? I'm not saying Russians aren't responsible, but to accuse the government seems bizarre at this stage. There's clearly corruption throughout and dodgy mafia/oligarchs here in the UK, but the clamour to condemn Putin is at best undiplomatic.


I tend to agree. Quite simply it would not be in Putin's interest to use such means when there are far simpler methods of assassination.
My immediate thought when the news broke was that the nerve agent had come from Porton Down, probably on "route" to a cell within the russian complex. That in no way infers the state instigated it though it would need to be orchestrated by someone in the politburo, and comrade Skripal was the local courier. This stuff is far to lethal just to chuck in the general direction of the victim without wiping out half of south wiltshire's population.
With the accompanying histeria of both sides we will probably never know the real truth which is probably more dangerous than doing nothing.


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Turin Machine
post Mar 17 2018, 03:48 PM
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QUOTE (newres @ Mar 17 2018, 02:41 PM) *
Well at least it would be open. Don't forgot the dodgy dossier as well as how close Porton Down is. Are we really saying that Putin authorised it? Where's the evidence? I'm not saying Russians aren't responsible, but to accuse the government seems bizarre at this stage. There's clearly corruption throughout and dodgy mafia/oligarchs here in the UK, but the clamour to condemn Putin is at best undiplomatic.

Diplomacy means nothing to Putin and once nerve agents are used on the streets on Britain it goes beyond diplomacy. Russia cares not one fig for the law or for world opinion, Putin had been pushing for a showdown since the day he took over and wants to demonstrate once again that he is a strong leader.
What next? Aircraft accidentally shotdown when escorting russian planes out of our airspace? This is the country complicit in the downing of the passenger plane over Ukraine recently. They don't care, never have, never will.


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newres
post Mar 17 2018, 05:10 PM
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QUOTE (Turin Machine @ Mar 17 2018, 03:48 PM) *
Diplomacy means nothing to Putin and once nerve agents are used on the streets on Britain it goes beyond diplomacy. Russia cares not one fig for the law or for world opinion, Putin had been pushing for a showdown since the day he took over and wants to demonstrate once again that he is a strong leader.
What next? Aircraft accidentally shotdown when escorting russian planes out of our airspace? This is the country complicit in the downing of the passenger plane over Ukraine recently. They don't care, never have, never will.

Still, where’s the proof and why is it not being shared?
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je suis Charlie
post Mar 17 2018, 05:51 PM
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QUOTE (newres @ Mar 17 2018, 05:10 PM) *
Still, where’s the proof and why is it not being shared?

Typical lefty, sitting back whining and not picking. What do you want, an empty packet of nerve agent, russian writing, addressed to 'V Putin Esq' . Could you crawl any further up Corbyn s backside?
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newres
post Mar 17 2018, 06:26 PM
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QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ Mar 17 2018, 05:51 PM) *
Typical lefty, sitting back whining and not picking. What do you want, an empty packet of nerve agent, russian writing, addressed to 'V Putin Esq' . Could you crawl any further up Corbyn s backside?

I’m not the one whining. I’m the calm one waiting to be convinced. It’s the usual suspects here and nationally getting uptight. Did you believe Saddam could launch an attack on us in 40 minutes? I certainly didn’t. And guess what. Our government lied to us. And that was a Labour government! If it was the nerve agent they say it is, let someone Independant test it.
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TallDarkAndHands...
post Mar 17 2018, 06:32 PM
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QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ Mar 17 2018, 05:51 PM) *
Typical lefty, sitting back whining and not picking. What do you want, an empty packet of nerve agent, russian writing, addressed to 'V Putin Esq' . Could you crawl any further up Corbyn s backside?


The porton down gals and guys will know exactly where this was "manufactured". I'm more concerned about the method of delivery. I suspect drone. What does Putin gain? Enhanced reputation as a strong man at home. Winning an election with a landslide and putting the fear of god up any russian that might think about "defecting". So bearing in mind all that I guess we did it or Mossad.😂
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Turin Machine
post Mar 17 2018, 07:03 PM
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QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Mar 17 2018, 06:32 PM) *
The porton down gals and guys will know exactly where this was "manufactured". I'm more concerned about the method of delivery. I suspect drone. What does Putin gain? Enhanced reputation as a strong man at home. Winning an election with a landslide and putting the fear of god up any russian that might think about "defecting". So bearing in mind all that I guess we did it or Mossad.😂

Or it could have been Betty from the mothers union, but on balance probably Russia.


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TallDarkAndHands...
post Mar 17 2018, 08:05 PM
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QUOTE (Turin Machine @ Mar 17 2018, 07:03 PM) *
Or it could have been Betty from the mothers union, but on balance probably Russia.

Nope. Newres thinks its us. Everything in some peoples eyes is a conspiracy. I expect he also believes that 911 was a CIA plot of some kind...😂
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newres
post Mar 18 2018, 07:57 AM
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QUOTE (Turin Machine @ Mar 17 2018, 07:03 PM) *
Or it could have been Betty from the mothers union, but on balance probably Russia.

Or Russians. Don't forget that both the US and Israel do have state sanctioned assassination programs so it wouldn't be surprising if they had one too. The US methods cause a lot more collateral damage.
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Andy Capp
post Mar 18 2018, 08:05 AM
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QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ Mar 17 2018, 05:51 PM) *
Typical lefty, sitting back whining and not picking. What do you want, an empty packet of nerve agent, russian writing, addressed to 'V Putin Esq' . Could you crawl any further up Corbyn s backside?

Perhaps we would like a rational government to act within the law. The way it is behaving causes doubt.
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Andy Capp
post Mar 18 2018, 08:16 AM
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QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ Mar 17 2018, 01:05 PM) *
So, in a nutshell, the UK, NATO, USA, Europe in fact pretty much all of the western world including labours defence secretary believe it's Russia, but you believe an antiquated relic of the sixties. Sums you up really.

Your response sums you and your like up.
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je suis Charlie
post Mar 18 2018, 12:45 PM
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QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Mar 18 2018, 08:16 AM) *
Your response sums you and your like up.

That was almost coherent, almost.
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je suis Charlie
post Mar 18 2018, 12:47 PM
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QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Mar 18 2018, 08:05 AM) *
Perhaps we would like a rational government to act within the law. The way it is behaving causes doubt.

Like your russian puppet masters obey the law? Don't make me laugh you train riding libtard.
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Turin Machine
post Mar 18 2018, 01:15 PM
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newres
post Mar 18 2018, 02:51 PM
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QUOTE (Turin Machine @ Mar 18 2018, 01:15 PM) *

It should be Trump, not Corbyn.
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TallDarkAndHands...
post Mar 18 2018, 04:35 PM
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QUOTE (newres @ Mar 18 2018, 02:51 PM) *
It should be Trump, not Corbyn.

Because?
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newres
post Mar 18 2018, 05:01 PM
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QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Mar 18 2018, 04:35 PM) *
Because?

I’m surprised you needed to ask. There’s more evidence of Russian collusion in Trump’s election victory than there is that Russia has influence over Corbyn.
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