Amazon deliveries, Now lumbered with Amazon Logistics Options

[On the edge]

I don't think they've taught us anything. Made things available, yes but we have a choice. After all the aristocracy always did have food out of season. Throwaway society came in as automated production lines started to impact back in the 30s - cheap white goods are just the end result. Yes, Tesco and the big oligopolies are ruthless when crushing competition, but that's nothing new. Look way back at the Enclosure Acts, the big boys sunk the little ones. Self interest is the way of the World. We did have a little break, just after 1945 when the collective good was seen as the way forward, and we became more important than me. That's now disappeared totally; it's everyone for himself. That isn't down to supermarkets, it's down to us.

[Andy Capp]

I don't think they've taught us anything. Made things available, yes but we have a choice. After all the aristocracy always did have food out of season. Throwaway society came in as automated production lines started to impact back in the 30s - cheap white goods are just the end result. Yes, Tesco and the big oligopolies are ruthless when crushing competition, but that's nothing new. Look way back at the Enclosure Acts, the big boys sunk the little ones. Self interest is the way of the World. We did have a little break, just after 1945 when the collective good was seen as the way forward, and we became more important than me. That's now disappeared totally; it's everyone for himself. That isn't down to supermarkets, it's down to us.

I'm not blaming them, I'm pointing out that cheapest prices is best is not without its insidious side. The ruthless side I'm talking about isn't about between companies, but the way Amazon and supermarkets 'bully' their suppliers - not least in the field of sustainable and ethical farming.

[Simon Kirby]

Amazon doesn't believe in unfettered retail competition - they are using their dominant market share with a pretty heavy hand.

Not so long ago it was Tesco taking over the world, now it's Amazon.

And yet Tesco didn't take over the world, and I don't see why Amazon will either. It's a free market, and good luck to retailers who out-compete their opposition.

[Andy Capp]

And yet Tesco didn't take over the world, and I don't see why Amazon will either. It's a free market, and good luck to retailers who out-compete their opposition.

It was only poor leadership that stopped it, but the idea that they are in a free market is also naive - partly free possibly. However, the supermarket model involves methods that are unsustainable and possibly ethically questionable.

[On the edge]

I'm not blaming them, I'm pointing out that cheapest prices is best is not without its insidious side. The ruthless side I'm talking about isn't about between companies, but the way Amazon and supermarkets 'bully' their suppliers - not least in the field of sustainable and ethical farming.

I'm not wholly convinced they do 'bully' suppliers, indeed that in some undertakings would actually be a good thing. The NHS could do with a little supermarketing buying expertise to sort the drugs companies. Arguably, it's a great tactic by suppliers to put it about that they've been bullied; yet they still come back for more. The sustainable issue is a very good point as we now import more than half our foodstuffs, but this is really more down to government (who will doubtless blame the EU) policy than supermarkets. If bullying was rife, we'd see a lot more supplier combinations and some genuinely poor farmers.

The biggest concern I have with the retail food industry is that the very fast and rapidly growing competition is all from continental based firms - which means the HO type jobs (the intellectual ones) won't be UK based. Yet again lowering our home workforce skill needs, demonstrating that again we've lost it in commercial leadership terms.

[Andy Capp]

I'm not wholly convinced they do 'bully' suppliers, indeed that in some undertakings would actually be a good thing. The NHS could do with a little supermarketing buying expertise to sort the drugs companies. Arguably, it's a great tactic by suppliers to put it about that they've been bullied; yet they still come back for more. The sustainable issue is a very good point as we now import more than half our foodstuffs, but this is really more down to government (who will doubtless blame the EU) policy than supermarkets. If bullying was rife, we'd see a lot more supplier combinations and some genuinely poor farmers.

The biggest concern I have with the retail food industry is that the very fast and rapidly growing competition is all from continental based firms - which means the HO type jobs (the intellectual ones) won't be UK based. Yet again lowering our home workforce skill needs, demonstrating that again we've lost it in commercial leadership terms.

They take all the profit but share no risk; demand exclusivity and give no breadth for suppliers to build a safe trading position; poor payers on unrealistic payment terms. All done by being in a big position of power. And we do see poor farmers.

A few examples, but there are many.

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/201...rket-price-wars

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/agricultu...mmed-alive.html

http://www.corporatewatch.org/content/roug...s-do-you-mean-0

[Exhausted]

It's not only the food retailers that screw their suppliers, Halfords trading terms have to be amongst the worst.

[Andy Capp]

There's also the poor way staff are treated. Anecdotally I occasionally see and hear of staff being illegally treated, but union 'power' in a certain supermarket is pathetic. A lot of the big stores are ran by kids.

[Simon Kirby]

It was only poor leadership that stopped it, but the idea that they are in a free market is also naive - partly free possibly. However, the supermarket model involves methods that are unsustainable and possibly ethically questionable.

You're right that it's not a free market, and to some degree I agonise over the incompatibility of my laissez faire dogma and what I see as essential regulation such as to limit monopolies.

However, the sustainability or otherwise of the supermarket model is more nuanced than you suggest. I don't entirely accept that there is a "supermarket model" per se and I think you need to look at the social and ecconomic impact of individual undertaking in the context of commerce generally. I don't for you example see any reason why Tesco's business model should be sustainable and if it goes bust in ten years time then what the hey. Likewise if Tesco bancrupts its suppliers then where exactly is the problem?

[Andy Capp]

You're right that it's not a free market, and to some degree I agonise over the incompatibility of my laissez faire dogma and what I see as essential regulation such as to limit monopolies.

However, the sustainability or otherwise of the supermarket model is more nuanced than you suggest. I don't entirely accept that there is a "supermarket model" per se and I think you need to look at the social and ecconomic impact of individual undertaking in the context of commerce generally. I don't for you example see any reason why Tesco's business model should be sustainable and if it goes bust in ten years time then what the hey. Likewise if Tesco bancrupts its suppliers then where exactly is the problem?

Be a bankrupt then.

Meanwhile, relatively unfettered commerce is making us fat while we throwing away 30% of the food produced for market.

http://www.unep.org/wed/2013/quickfacts/

I'm sorry Simon, but I find your politics on this subject disgusting, despite my admiring other 'philosophies' you have.

[Simon Kirby]

Be a bankrupt then.

Meanwhile, relatively unfettered commerce is making us fat while we throwing away 30% of the food produced for market.

http://www.unep.org/wed/2013/quickfacts/

I'm sorry Simon, but I find your politics on this subject disgusting, despite my admiring other 'philosophies' you have.

"Disgusting" is a bit strong.

As i've mentioned before, i stacked shelves in the produce department at Tesco so I have better than average experience of their fresh food waste policy. The department had a waste budget, an order of magnitude lower than the 30% quoted in the reference, and it was hard to come in below budget so a lot of your effort was directed every day at minimizing waste by being obsessive with rotation and stock management, and I don't suppose that is any different in any other supermarket. The supply chain is also very well managed with stock ordering automatically triggered by sales and a very short chain between the farmer and the supermarket shelves.

Of that 30% that is suposedly wasted I would say that almost all of that is thrown away in the home, and a significant reason for that is people throwing out perfectly good produce because they slavishly observe unrealistic best-before dates, and because they have so much disposable income that they can afford to be wasteful.

I don't see how any of that is the supermarket's fault.

As for going banckrupt, why would I lose sleep over an uncompetative business? For example, if British dairy farmers can't compete with Irish dairy farmers then fine. I'm happy that we now drive Hondas and BMWs rather than Morris Marinas and Austin Allegros.

[Andy Capp]

"Disgusting" is a bit strong.

You might think so, but perhaps ugly may be more appropriate.

As i've mentioned before, i stacked shelves in the produce department at Tesco so I have better than average experience of their fresh food waste policy. The department had a waste budget, an order of magnitude lower than the 30% quoted in the reference, and it was hard to come in below budget so a lot of your effort was directed every day at minimizing waste by being obsessive with rotation and stock management, and I don't suppose that is any different in any other supermarket. The supply chain is also very well managed with stock ordering automatically triggered by sales and a very short chain between the farmer and the supermarket shelves.

Of that 30% that is suposedly wasted I would say that almost all of that is thrown away in the home, and a significant reason for that is people throwing out perfectly good produce because they slavishly observe unrealistic best-before dates, and because they have so much disposable income that they can afford to be wasteful.

I don't see how any of that is the supermarket's fault.

I didn't say this is Tesco's or other supermarkets' fault. Western culture's 'free market' environment see to this kind of waste. Tiny example: is it supermarkets that 'invented' BOGOF, thus 'outsourcing' their 'waste disposal' policy (well described already in your post)?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-26908613

http://www.letsrecycle.com/news/latest-new...d-waste-problem

As for going banckrupt, why would I lose sleep over an uncompetative business? For example, if British dairy farmers can't compete with Irish dairy farmers then fine. I'm happy that we now drive Hondas and BMWs rather than Morris Marinas and Austin Allegros.

I think your point is a different argument. I believe, the switch to foreign cars was as much to about quality as price; however, I feel bad for those people that lose their jobs and homes due to policies employed by 'big brother' customers (like supermarkets), because they can source it from near slave labour countries abroad, or from suppliers with less rigorous production methods.


If I may, so that the argument doesn't sway too far from my original point, I originally said: "It's all very well all you people cooing over services like Amazon, but there is an unhealthy side to all this, as are things like supermarkets taking over retail."

I am not suggesting there is nothing good about the current situation, only that there is an unhealthy side too, and that is a fact. I certainly acknowledge that the consumer has as much, if not more to do with all this as the suppliers.