Calls to reduce the A34 to a 50mph limit, Yet more namby pamby nonsense Options

[user23]

Agreed, remind me, what is your agenda?

Hi Adrian, do you have a link to a study to support your claim that "99 per cent of all the accidents on that road will go away" if the speed limit is dropped to 50mph?

[Turin Machine]

Err of course he does, he also has documentation that PROVES that Elvis is alive and well and working in the Newbury McDonalds and that little green men run the council.

[Rusty Bullet]

he also has documentation that PROVES that Elvis is alive and well and working in the Newbury McDonalds and that little green men run the council.

One of those may just be true.

[user23]

Err of course he does, he also has documentation that PROVES that Elvis is alive and well and working in the Newbury McDonalds and that little green men run the council.

If he doesn't have any evidence to support this claim, doesn't that question the validity of his whole argument?

[Adrian Hollister]

If he doesn't have any evidence to support this claim, doesn't that question the validity of his whole argument?

It's a question of traffic management in an area where there is a high number of accidents resulting in high levels of traffic passing through the narrow roads of the Downland villages. There is no rocket science here.

But if you need reference materials, there are loads of studies out there:

Effect of Speed on Accident Rates
US example
NSC - speeding tripples accident rates
Even wikipedia has a document


I like the idea of variable speed mentioned by Dannyboy. If we could accurately measure the speed of vehicles climbing the hills and round the bends, it might be possible to slow oncoming traffic down to a level where the speed differential between the slow traffic and the speed freaks is at a level where the accident risk is much lower.

So if we took a worst case example:
Lorry crawling at 30mph up the hill, speak freak going at 80mph = 50mph difference

Added an average speed camera at 70mph:
Lorry crawling at 30mph up the hill, other traffic at 70mph = 40mph difference

Variable speed limit:
Lorry crawling at 30mph up the hill, other traffic at 60mph = 30mph difference
Lorry crawling at 30mph up the hill, other traffic at 50mph = 20mph difference

Might cost a bit more to implement, but other countries have used fluid dynamics to predict the impact of the effect of the speed differential and breaking (butterfly effects). I wonder how often the butterfly effect results in an accident and not the initial panic breaking.

There are companies out there working on these very problems, I wonder if they would be interesting in trailing the technology on this short section of road. If only West Berks would ask the question.

Remember, reducing the speed limit on this accident prone area will only increase journey times for car drivers by at most three minutes. Also remember that the Highways Agency are aware of the problem and put in place a 'no overtaking' trial for lorries (something I see regularly ignored - something else active traffic management would resolve).

[Adrian Hollister]

What the Green Party don't seem to realise is that...

btw... always interesting to see how the people from other political parties in West Berks (who are on this forum) decline to promote themselves on these issues. Too afraid to tackle tackle emotive topics and scared to talk to people and find out their real opinions?

I am always happy here to take the debate, I am prepared to spend time understanding the issue and I am always willing to evaluate my position if I've got it wrong.

[Strafin]

I don't want a reduction in speed limit there, but I take my hat off to you, for fighting your cause and coming up with the evidence you were asked for.

[NWNREADER]

Sadly, the bare statistics are not that useful in identifying causation, and the driver behaviour element is rarely considered. Engineers know best, of course, but some solutions only change the type of incident, not eliminate them.
True, slower speeds tend to reduce the effect of impacts, but blanket slower speeds have a huge cost to the business community. Simplistic solutions based on a dogmatic belief rarely deal with the 'problem' (if there is one).

[user23]

It's a question of traffic management in an area where there is a high number of accidents resulting in high levels of traffic passing through the narrow roads of the Downland villages. There is no rocket science here.

I'm looking for the study that supports your claim that "99 per cent of all the accidents on that road will go away" if the speed limit is dropped to 50mph.

I'm interested to see how the study arrived at that figure.

[Downlander]

I'm not sure we could ever travel fast enough for speed to kill us!

We're all travelling at about 800 mph even while we're just sitting at home, aren't we?

[NWNREADER]

It is not the speed that kills, just the mode of coming to a stop........

[Turin Machine]

Very pretty speach adrian, except of course you're not interested in argument, you already "know" you're right.

[Penelope]

Adrian, how are you getting on with that Land Rover of yours, not to bothered about pollution then ? Very green I must say, Fiited a particulate filter lately ? Good job i'm not one of the BMW classes (as you so sneeringly call them) otherwise I might get upset !

[Adrian Hollister]

Adrian, how are you getting on with that Land Rover of yours, not to bothered about pollution then ? Very green I must say, Fiited a particulate filter lately ?

Old stuff more than covered else where. But if your worried about the old girl, she is still going fine and served me, the family and the community well for so many years now. Brilliant in the last few years of deep snow and runs very well on WVO (waste veggie oil) and biodiesel. I assume you've kept your car for 16 years?

Good job i'm not one of the BMW classes (as you so sneeringly call them) otherwise I might get upset !

Do you speed?

[NWNREADER]

Oh dear - personal website.................

[Guest_xjay1337_*]

Old stuff more than covered else where. But if your worried about the old girl, she is still going fine and served me, the family and the community well for so many years now. Brilliant in the last few years of deep snow and runs very well on WVO (waste veggie oil) and biodiesel. I assume you've kept your car for 16 years?

I can promise you my car is better for the environment in every single way, plus stops quicker which means if a precious dear or owl flew into the path of my direction of travel I could brake and avoid a horrible incident which would no doubt leave me mentally scarred for years.

Plus with my height adjustable suspension I could easily get enough ground clearance for a "muddy track" and my chunky winter tyres (which work equally as well in the mud) would do fine for most things aside from deep mushy puddles which even your Land Rover would get stuck in...if you wanted off road ability, reliability or infact any redeeming features at all you would not have bought a Land Rover Discovery.

If you read Mark's comment on Adrians page I think he has the right idea..
http://www.adrianhollister.com/archives/24...-to-fix-it.html
A good argument swept away with the "ohh no speeding is bad and kills puppies and means women don't ovulate" argument.

Also again I seem to see that my comments were taken incorrectly and applied to his board. Well hereforth they are copyrighted as mine please remove your misinformation.

[Adrian Hollister]

A good argument swept away with the "ohh no speeding is bad and kills puppies and means women don't ovulate" argument.

The truth is there is an accident problem at Ilsley and it causes traffic nightmare in the Downlands. You can deny it, but it is still the truth. So whats your proposal?

[Guest_xjay1337_*]

Redesigning sliproad around that area, consider forcing a "time-trial" HGVs only use inside lane idea, improved road signage.. Cutting speed limits won't reduce accidents! Too many people are like "oh there's an accident we must cut the speed limit" when it doesn't SOLVE the core problem. It's like your house is on fire and you just turn off the gas...the fire is still gonna go on!

[Biker1]

What part ?

It's OK he always kicks in whenever bikes are mentioned.
Only time he ever does!
He will even turn a thread round to bikes even if that is not the issue.

[Adrian Hollister]

Redesigning sliproad around that area, consider forcing a "time-trial" HGVs only use inside lane idea, improved road signage..

Time-trial is already in effect, but it doesn't work (in my experience, HGV's seem to just ignore it).

Whilst the slip roads do need rethinking, it should be noted that longer slip roads are present southbound at Ilsley and they don't seem to make much difference.

Cutting speed limits won't reduce accidents! Too many people are like "oh there's an accident we must cut the speed limit" when it doesn't SOLVE the core problem. It's like your house is on fire and you just turn off the gas...the fire is still gonna go on!

Already proven through a lot of research (some linked earlier) that it does solve the problem. It gives more reaction time and in the event of an accident, it turns major accidents into minor ones.

Do you like the idea of a variable speed (at times when needed)... i.e. speed is only reduced when there is a problem ahead?