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Posted by: Blake Jul 26 2012, 10:35 AM

I was pretty disappointed with last week's edition.. a vast pullout section with a stack of photos on school leavers and their prom season; this is of supreme indifference and is not news.

I also note that last week, there was a mere single page of letters. The letters pages (and there were three pages of such not long ago) are one of the best sections of the newspaper.

I find there is less and less worth reading in this newspaper and yet the price escalates. I find the newspaper is increasingly heavy on photos and much lighter on text. The prom section is a classic example...what a waste of money.

This was a great paper a decade ago and less. Is there a new editor in charge?

The quality of the Newbury Weekly News and its news content seems to go from bad to worse.

Posted by: dannyboy Jul 26 2012, 10:54 AM

I take it you were not at, or had family at a prom.....

Posted by: Blake Jul 26 2012, 11:00 AM

Even if I did, I can take my own photos.

The paper never used to run this dross.

Posted by: dannyboy Jul 26 2012, 11:07 AM

I find sport dross, and find pages & pages devoted to local teams a right bore. Week in week out.

But I also understand that many people do find this interesting, and that they like to read about their teams & themselves in the local press.

In the same way that a teenager, or their parents, might find seeing a picture of their prom ( a once in a lifetime thing ) in the local paper interesting. A cut out & keep moment I would have thought.

If you don't, don't buy the NWN.

Posted by: Penelope Jul 26 2012, 11:16 AM

Yet another import from the USA (sigh) why? something else to drain poor daddy's wallet, yet another 'must have' from the land of the obese burger munchers.

Posted by: Blake Jul 26 2012, 11:16 AM

IS there market research to back that assertion?

Posted by: Penelope Jul 26 2012, 11:17 AM

which one?

Posted by: dannyboy Jul 26 2012, 11:19 AM

You sound like some one who wasn't asked to be Prom Queen.....

Posted by: Penelope Jul 26 2012, 11:22 AM

We used to have end of term disco (ahh the good old days)

Posted by: dannyboy Jul 26 2012, 11:52 AM

End of term Disco = The wood work teacher brings in his 8-track & your dad comes & collects you at 8:30, after 1 hour of sitting on the gym equipment listening to Slade & Shawaddywaddy.

Posted by: Jayjay Jul 26 2012, 12:49 PM

With girls on one side and lads on the other and the pungent smell of pumps and sweaty gym shirts in lost property frangrancing the air. Orange squash was the drink of the evening as I recall. Oh, happy days.

Posted by: Baffers100 Jul 26 2012, 01:16 PM

On the plus side, fewer words= fewer chances of spelling mistakes

Posted by: Blake Jul 26 2012, 02:02 PM

Yes, well, now that we have spellchecking, there is no excuse in the first place.

Does anyone know if the newspaper has a new editor? Could that be the reason for the poorer qualiy and content?

Posted by: Nothing Much Jul 26 2012, 03:13 PM

I just have to pop in for a second.Folk who knew things clever.
Made LSD in the Chem labs. Was freely available.
They were rusticated but allowed to sit exams.So they ended up at Cambridge
No Names.
There were gigs with Malvern Girls, but I was a wallflower.
ce

Posted by: Blake Jul 26 2012, 03:36 PM

What on earth are you talking about?

Posted by: Newbelly Jul 26 2012, 03:42 PM

The clue is Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds.

Posted by: Blake Jul 26 2012, 03:44 PM

And what has that got to do with the Newbury Weekly News??

Posted by: andy1979uk Jul 26 2012, 03:56 PM

Seriously, I know I get accused of trolling but you do post some complete dribble.

Posted by: Penelope Jul 26 2012, 04:15 PM

Do elucidate, sounds like fun.

Posted by: GMR Jul 26 2012, 04:43 PM

To be fair it is a lot easier to fill a newspaper with photos than stories/ news.

Posted by: user23 Jul 26 2012, 08:31 PM

I doubt the prom section was a waste of money.

I bet almost everyone in it bought at least one copy as a souvenir.

Posted by: dannyboy Jul 26 2012, 09:01 PM

To be fair, some stories are better told pictorially.

I can't imagine the paper covering 'Prom Night 2012' in prose alone......

Posted by: Newbelly Jul 26 2012, 09:08 PM

You are probably right.

Scaling things up a bit, whilst I in no way condone illegal practices such as hacking phones or computers, I just hope, post Leveson, we do not lose the spirit of investigative journalism.

Posted by: GMR Jul 26 2012, 09:29 PM

True.

Posted by: Andy Capp Jul 26 2012, 10:39 PM

I see nothing wrong with hacking, if it is used to expose serious wrong doing, but it should never hinder police work.

Posted by: Timbo Jul 26 2012, 10:42 PM

His dribble is by far the most interesting dribble I have ever read.

Penelope, the end of School Discos, you know, I think they had those up until about 2005!

Posted by: Strafin Jul 26 2012, 11:38 PM

It is rubbish, the prom bit. If you get you picture in the paper fair enough, but if everyone has their picture in the paper, and the pictures are being sold, it's not really exciting is it?

Posted by: Biker1 Jul 27 2012, 08:31 AM

Looking the way some of them did in those pictures I bet some didn't.
At least they are too young to have "tats" yet!
Gave me and Mrs. Biker a good laugh though.

Posted by: Blake Jul 27 2012, 08:33 AM

What I found after I had put the prom section and property pages in the recycling bin was a rather thin "newspaper".

Posted by: JeffG Jul 27 2012, 09:37 AM

When I left school we didn't even have discos.

Posted by: Jayjay Jul 27 2012, 11:05 AM

Do not understand the present for the teacher at end of term. Bottles of £70 perfum and expensive champagne? When did that become the norm, and why?

Posted by: HJD Jul 27 2012, 01:09 PM

Probably when Miss changed from a 60 yr. old Witch wielding a cane to a tasty 25 yr. old in a mini skirt.

Posted by: On the edge Jul 27 2012, 02:18 PM

Suspect these days the former could collect even more in certain parts of London....that's real market forces for you!

Posted by: Blake Jul 27 2012, 02:41 PM

Keep it relevant.

Does anyone else know why the newspaper has gone downhill in recent years?

Posted by: JeffG Jul 27 2012, 02:46 PM

You would be good at designing questions for referendums.

Posted by: Andy Capp Jul 27 2012, 03:49 PM

I don't think it has gone down hill, but I am disappointed by the letters page compared to the past. I would imagine newspapers are under great pressure from other media outlets, depressed housing market, and a drop in advertising revue in general, not to mention a loss from people only using the paper's website and not buying a paper.

Posted by: Penelope Jul 27 2012, 03:54 PM

I must confess I usually read the digital version myself.

Posted by: lordtup Jul 27 2012, 05:37 PM

Hear Hear !!

Posted by: Nothing Much Jul 27 2012, 07:17 PM

To answer an earlier post about what are you on about?
LSD was dead simple.
To the left as I type is an old school board that details scholars, Praeposters.
It was in a skip and a friend of my brother retrieved it along with all the others.
Yes I am there. 7 times over the years. Sports mostly. (CJE)
The guy who cooked up the LSD He ended up at Cambridge.
He was from an old car making family. Frazer-Nash.It wasn't just him.About 5 others were sent home.

I ended up in a travelling show.Well I spent 4 years touring shows with others.
It was quite good times really.(That is enough about that)

Nothing to do with Newbury I accept.
But it was my home town then.As Bruce might have said
ce

Posted by: Biker1 Jul 27 2012, 08:30 PM

But then you miss a whole enthralling page weekly of "Country Matters" or as it should be titled "Farming Propaganda"!

Posted by: On the edge Jul 27 2012, 08:46 PM

Then you could offer to do one on trains and transport. We have a good few commuters - so quite relevant. The page in 'Metro' which goes on about the Underground has made London appreciate the tube a bit more. And yes, I am being serious!

Posted by: On the edge Jul 27 2012, 08:53 PM

Nothing Much - just keep posting!

Anyone who disagrees simply ought to wonder why newspapers add odd quirky articles.

Frazer Nash cars - haven't heard of them since Grandad passed on!

Posted by: Biker1 Jul 27 2012, 09:10 PM

That would be putting my head on the chopping block!
We need to either stop complaining about the railways or do something about it which means spending money.
As soon as that is suggested it is usually lambasted.
Look at HS2.
We are paying the price for decades of under investment most of which was diverted to the roads. Things need to change as road transport is not the magical answer to everything as we though back in the 60's with Beeching, Marples and their plans.

Sorry, I digress..............
Just think farmers have their own publications for this type of thing.
And people who enjoy blasting animals for fun have theirs.
If it was really about country matters in general then it would be of interest to many more and worthwhile publishing.

Posted by: Simon Kirby Jul 27 2012, 09:28 PM

Absolutely.

Posted by: On the edge Jul 27 2012, 10:27 PM

Perhaps the column should be more about agriculture / food production - which ought to be of interest to our market town. Wholly agree it shouldn't be a platform for what are laughingly called country sports. I know several growers / farmers who are against similarly some townies (nice but dim types albeit) who are for.

Wholly agree about rail investment. Marples - who says corruption is a recent thing!

Posted by: Andy Capp Jul 28 2012, 12:09 AM

I'd rather people appealed for a right to reply, rather than wish something was censored. If the Country Matters has something offensive or wrong, then make a statement about it. I doubt Biker1 et al. have read enough of his articles to make a valid comment anyway.

Posted by: Biker1 Jul 28 2012, 06:49 AM

I have read enough of his articles to make a valid comment.

Posted by: On the edge Jul 28 2012, 07:15 AM

Agree. A right of reply isn't a panecea and certainly not to propaganda well executed.

Posted by: Andy Capp Jul 28 2012, 07:54 AM

It is in a democracy, I think, where someone is doing something legal. Censorship because some or many find it offensive is not how we should run things in modern Britain.

Posted by: HJD Jul 28 2012, 07:54 AM

Not really relevant i know but where has this new term 'Medical Episode' suddenly sprung from when describing some one who has been in an accident. It used to be simply called a Blackout or Felt ill !! Just wondering !

Posted by: Andy Capp Jul 28 2012, 08:00 AM

I don't trust your judgement; however, shall we agree to monitor the section and see? Hopefully we can avoid bigotry getting in the way of facts, but you never know; you might be right. By the way, I have no interest in hunting and shooting animals for sport. I think it is cruel and unnecessary.

I have three back issues here I can put my hand on. These are the headlines in order of prominence.

June 21 2012
1 Prince of Wales campaigned for a small price rise farmers get for wool.
2 Surprising endurance shown from migrating birds.
3 Broadband in rural areas.
4 Chairman of Natural England backs GM crops.
5 £1bn investment in whiskey production.

July 12 2012
1 An article on environmental impact of growing food.
2 National Farmers' Union on milk pricing.
3 Cereal yields from the poor weather.
4 Forestry ownership report submitted.
5 Royal Agriculture Collage wants to change its name to Royal Agriculture University.

July 26 2012
1 The impact of the weather on the harvest.
2 The election of a new president for Central Association of Agricultural Valuers.


... I can't wait for the next edition.

Posted by: Weavers Walk Jul 28 2012, 12:49 PM

Valid to whom?

Posted by: On the edge Jul 28 2012, 01:00 PM

Do you get out much?


And what do headlines mean - ever thought of reading beyond?

Posted by: Andy Capp Jul 28 2012, 01:09 PM

Breakfast amusement!


Evidently it is closer to actually reading the column than you or anyone else gave done so far! Which is surprising as Biker1 et al. have already written it off as being irrelevant.

Posted by: On the edge Jul 28 2012, 03:15 PM

Doesn't demonstrate that at all. There is a massive difference between reading and understanding - just as there is between promotion and propaganda. Looks as if you are hooked though!

Posted by: Biker1 Jul 28 2012, 04:47 PM

I haven't written it off and am sure it is relevant to a minority of readers.
However I fail to see why it warrants a full page weekly spread when it is all about farming and "country sports" and not really about the countryside in general at all.
Just my contribution to the op and why the heading "A newspaper with less news".

Posted by: Andy Capp Jul 28 2012, 09:51 PM

Have you read them them? I have and see none of that which you complain off. I'm not sure which one of us is truly 'hooked' on this.


So you think removing the column would bring more news! That's screwed logic.

Whether we like it or not, country sports allegedly supported in the paper, are legal, so we have to, if we support democracy, except it. However, like you are when you see people rubbish railways, I think it is a good idea to to try and support your opinion with the truth ... and not 'propaganda'.

Posted by: Biker1 Jul 30 2012, 08:06 AM

I do not defend railways I simply try to present the facts.
I agree in the other topic with JeffG his experience was not acceptable and should be addressed.
I was simply putting the facts right as he seemed to blame FGW for all the issues he experienced which was not correct.

Where is my opinion propaganda and not the truth?
The sub heading of this topic if "A newspaper with less news".
The column, in my opinion, is not news and appeals only to a small minority. I am sure there are sufficient letters to the paper, for example, to replace it with an extra page of these.

Posted by: Andy Capp Jul 30 2012, 09:39 AM

I agree, but my point is that I think it is only right that one apply such tests on all topics, even ones we don't like. I would like to add that you are clearly a rail advocate, so I think it is a little disingenuous to deny that you 'don't defend railways'. In any case, I think in the main, your 'defence' of railways is usually valid.


Many letters will contain half truths and political propaganda themselves, so I'm not sure that there would be an improvement in news reported there, although I would like to see more letters. Your stance on country sports is your main motivation for your complaint regards the Country Matters section. You later claimed that it lacks a diverse narrative. Well, I'd counter that the countryside in Newbury district is overwhelmingly agricultural, so I feel if you are correct, it is only right that the section contains a proportional amount of news on that matter.

Your assertion that Country Matters is just propaganda is, on first impression, incorrect, but time will tell. Lets keep an eye on it and we will be able to get an accurate view of the section. As you said, it is important to promote the facts, not fiction or propaganda.

Posted by: Biker1 Jul 30 2012, 09:55 AM

Well this week Mr. Davies is talking purely about farming and crops and the weather - the normal farmer's bleat.
Who knows, he may be a reader / contributor to this forum and may change his tact after reading this debate??
Nocola Chester's column on the same page give a more balanced view of the countryside which will be of interest to many more I should imagine?

Posted by: On the edge Jul 30 2012, 10:41 AM

Worth thinking about what propaganda actually is - but that would probably demand degree level media studies!

Posted by: Andy Capp Jul 30 2012, 11:50 AM

In what way?

Posted by: Andy Capp Jul 30 2012, 12:15 PM

Good point. Perhaps Biker1, it would be useful to explain what you mean by propaganda in the context of the Country Matters column?

Posted by: Nothing Much Jul 30 2012, 02:13 PM

My little free newspaper "Islington Tribune" is seemingly written by about 2 journalists.
I have never found a spelling error.There are I expect other staff who Handel the musical concert adverts.
It doesn't waste time on pages of unsellable houses. OK there is usually a page full of murders.

I like a newspaper on the kitchen table with a coffee and some marmite on toast.
The letters page is devoured. Politicians seem to have backed off at the moment.
The adverts for local arts and stuff have been useful, things I would not have known about.
So BIG IT UP for the little boys.
ce

Posted by: Biker1 Jul 30 2012, 05:24 PM

I didn't start to use the word propaganda did I?
EDIT;- Yep OK, found it and the reason I used that expression is as stated below......
Although it is used to promote farmer's interests and "country sports". (In my opinion propaganda.)
Wikipedia Definition - "Propaganda is a form of communication that is aimed at influencing the attitude of a community toward some cause or position. Propaganda is usually repeated and dispersed over a wide variety of media in order to create the chosen result in audience attitudes".

I just think the column(s) is a waste of space to the majority.
If I want to read about railways I buy "Rail" or "Railway Magazine"
I don't expect a column on railways in my local rag as it is a minority interest.
If I want to read about farming I buy "Farmers Weekly"
If I want to read about "country sports" (god forbid) I buy "Horse & Hound".

Nicola's column has a more general interest of the countryside rather than just farming and "country sports".

Posted by: JeffG Jul 30 2012, 05:54 PM

But surely one of the purposes of a local paper is to provide a general snapshot of things that would satisfy the varying interests of the people who live in its circulation area?

Otherwise you would need to buy half a dozen specialist magazines to get a smattering of news on subjects that interest you.

It's a bit like the people that don't like sport complaining that the BBC shows too much sport, and since they pay their licence fee the BBC should only show programmes that interest them.

Posted by: Andy Capp Jul 30 2012, 05:59 PM

Hmm ... OK, but if it is of little interest to most people (I'm not sure how you can qualify that), then it would fail as propaganda, surely?

Like I said previously, West Berkshire's country side is largely agricultural land, doesn't that mean the column is most likely to be agricultural based? You also said that the topics of farming and field sport are covered in other publications. While I agree with that, I would expect the local paper to be based around matters that concern West Berkshire, and the periodicals you mention to be more national based.

I still don't understand how removing a column is necessarily going to improve the news worthiness of the paper, as per the OP.

Posted by: Simon Kirby Jul 30 2012, 06:10 PM

If the NWN wants to sell as many copoes as possible then it doesn't just have to be interesting to as wide a variety of readers as possible, it also needs to be careful that its content doesn't offend more than it interests. I find much of what passes for "country matters" to be nothing more than blood-sports propaganda - and I'm a rural worker with a keen interest in country matters so by rights the column should be one of the first things I read, but it isn't. I'm not suggesting that my perception is fair, balanced, or tolerant, I'm just saying, as a weekly NWN-buyer, it's my perception.

Like Blake said, the letters page was once quite good but it's now miserable. I once got the Letter of the Week award - I think the NWN might reinstate this accolade to encourage some better quality correspondence.

Posted by: Biker1 Jul 30 2012, 06:24 PM

Fair enough but it is entitled "Country Matters" and it isn't about that.
It is about farming and bloodsports.
There is a small farming column next to it so why the need for extra coverage?

Posted by: Andy Capp Jul 30 2012, 06:34 PM

Well, judging by my first forays into a column that I have hitherto ignored, it would seem your perception is unjustified. However, lets say you are right. Isn't the point of a column meant to spawn debate? A column by its nature is designed to be a point of view and if it is to publish something that is controversial, then one should write to the paper and therefore with a bit of luck, get your letter published in the letters page. Everyone's a winner!


I agree with this one. The letters page is undersold.

Posted by: Andy Capp Jul 30 2012, 06:39 PM

Farming and (legal) blood sports are country matters, so how can you justifiably say they are not?

Posted by: JeffG Jul 30 2012, 06:48 PM

OK. I haven't bought the paper in a long while, so wasn't aware it was biased in favour of blood sports. Obviously discussion of farming matters, which is something completely different, isn't going to offend anyone, though it might bore a fair few. But then they don't have to read about it.

Posted by: Newbelly Jul 30 2012, 07:07 PM

Can someone please explain how NWN is biased in favour of blood sports ?

Posted by: Andy Capp Jul 30 2012, 08:17 PM

I believe that is because there is little coverage of people or organisations who are against blood sport, where as the editorial seems to promote hunting in positive terms.

Posted by: Biker1 Jul 30 2012, 08:50 PM

Not so much the paper in general (although I believe it is come Boxing Day) more the "Country Matters" column.

Posted by: dannyboy Jul 30 2012, 10:09 PM

Maybe the quality of letters sent to the NWN is poor.

Posted by: Andy Capp Jul 30 2012, 10:28 PM

I don't see that the paper is obliged to be negative about something that is legal, unless there is a story there to be had. I think you would have a reasonable argument if your letters of protest to the paper about its bias were ignored.

Posted by: user23 Jul 31 2012, 07:16 AM

Are there organisations who are against blood sport, based in Newbury?

Posted by: Andy Capp Jul 31 2012, 08:05 AM

I'm not sure, but Biker1, Over the Edge and Simon Kirbys point of view seems to be that propaganda is OK if it is something they agree with.

Posted by: user23 Jul 31 2012, 08:43 AM

How are they supposed to cover something, in this case organisations who are against blood sport, based in Newbury, if they don't exist?

Posted by: Simon Kirby Jul 31 2012, 09:16 AM

That's not my point. I'm saying I buy the NWN to be informed and entertained, and if the content upsets me I'm disinclined to buy the paper.

If the NWN was a platform for democratic debate and free expression then I'd agree with you that "Country Matters" has as much right to put their view across as any other minority interest, just as I will defend anyone's right to sign up to the NewburyToday forum and promote their agenda.

But the NWN is a newspaper and I'm entitled to stop buying it if I don't like the content - even just some of the content. That's a personal decision and doesn't need to be reasonable or rational.

The inversion of my argument doesn't work. Lot's of stories about allotment sheds and town councillors plagued by suppurating buboes still won't keep my patronage if there are regular stories I find deeply objectionable. Not that I find "Country Matters" deeply ojectionable, I'm just illustrating what I did and didn't say.

Posted by: Andy Capp Jul 31 2012, 10:52 AM

Simon - I never questioned your entitlement to express a point of view or have an obligation to the paper; however, I feel it is important that truth is promoted, so if members and readers (or indeed, the paper) might falsely represent anything, then that is a reasonable thing to debate.

My scepticism regards people's opinion of the Country Matters column is based round the very rare incidence of protest from said forum posters of the column.

For me, I like to think that I approach things with an open mind and am prepared to try to understand why things are what they are. I took the opportunity to follow a hunt once, and while it didn't change my mind about the subject, it at least meant I have at least some personal experience to draw from.

Posted by: On the edge Jul 31 2012, 12:56 PM

No.

Propaganda is a seriously misunderstood term and technique - whicjh is why it is dangerous. Its not direct advertising or promtoing, its softening up, making the promotors ideas seem acceptable and normal generally covertly. That will often mean not referring directly to the core issue that would cause contention.

I seem to recall before one of the Commons debates about hunting - someone came up with the view that 'noone ever stood up for the Countryside' - the manifestation of that is propaganda.

There is good and bad propaganda. The NHS itself was the result of a concerted effort since about 1890! A good example perhaps.

So then, country people; farmers and the like are really very responsible and nice. As we all know, They are having hard time at the moment. Our local heritage is agricultural, good old England, live and let live. Feilds of corn ripening in the summer sun, milk straight from the cow - and the ploughman's well earned pint in the cosy village pub after his honest labours, the scarlet jackets and stirup cup - hunting is part of our heritage...

Posted by: Andy Capp Jul 31 2012, 02:24 PM

OK, so perhaps a cynic might like to give examples of Country Matters's bad propaganda?

Posted by: On the edge Jul 31 2012, 03:43 PM

In tjhis case, as I'm not being cynical, I can't answer your question. Asking for examples suggests you haven't understood the nature of propaganda and how it works. Its not black or white - one of the reasons it generally defeats those who believe they are logical.

Posted by: Andy Capp Jul 31 2012, 04:50 PM

I think you are being cynical about Country Matters (CM) and I am confident I can recognise propaganda; I'm just asking for examples with regards CM.

A few pages ago, you suggested that perhaps CM should focus more on agriculture-like topics. Well looking at three examples I had to hand, that is exactly what it seems to do. Also, you and others commented on CM being an advocate of blood sports. Indeed, several used language that suggests blood sport takes a prominent position in the column. Again, I haven't seen any evidence to show that, yet.

I wouldn't be surprised if the author of CM was an enthusiastic hunt supporter, and I would imagine he would write accordingly from time to time, but whether that constitutes a column that only deals in farming and hunting propaganda hasn't been proved to me yet.

Posted by: On the edge Jul 31 2012, 08:06 PM

The whole thing gives a rose tinted view of country living - yes even the issues. In other words the Archers for real before the latest BBC producer got hold of it. Its the whole thing - so no one article will provide the example, Sorry I'd need to write a thesis - but have neither time nor inclination. As to why its in there - well, our previous MP (in an apparently 'rural' constituency) voted against blood sports. So, why wouldn't the local media want to restore some balance. Given the emotion running high on both sides - calls for a long term campaign, and consequently propaganda, make the countrysiders look nice, reasonable, etc. etc. The best propaganda never mentions the real issue, that;s the idea. You come to your own conclusion!

Same effect in another lobby - anglers are lobbying RSPB and HMG for a cormorant cull - they eat too many fish! OK for them to maim them though 'cos fish don't feel pain. Fishing is also a townie working man's hobby. Another example of propaganda - Martin Salter's efforts in that regard!

Posted by: Simon Kirby Jul 31 2012, 08:23 PM

I wonder that I imagined this, but it's my recollection a month or so back Country Matters was promoting the culling of otters.

Posted by: Andy Capp Jul 31 2012, 08:52 PM

These are illustrations of how propaganda might be employed, but are they anything to do with CM in particular? Your point regards David Rendel seems rather tenuous to me. Is it a fact?

I think it is quite clear that all pressure groups will employ propaganda and perhaps the most vociferous I have seen is by the anti-hunt community. What I am most interested in seeing is the justification that you, Biker1 et al. have in describing CM as little more than a farming and hunting propaganda machine.

Posted by: Andy Capp Jul 31 2012, 09:01 PM

Well now the column will be under my gaze, I will soon start to expose those kind of stories; however, was it promoting, and was it propaganda?

Posted by: On the edge Jul 31 2012, 09:16 PM

Sorry have tried to explain - can't do more!

Posted by: Andy Capp Jul 31 2012, 09:37 PM

I'm sorry but I didn't ask for an explanation: I know what propaganda is. What I'm after are examples of propaganda from the CM column. Simon had the right idea in his last post.

Posted by: Blake Aug 1 2012, 07:54 AM

I am not so bothered by the Country Matters section.

What does annoy me is that the TV guide was dropped with no explanation... at the very same time the price went UP!

Now that's what I call fair-play.

Posted by: Biker1 Aug 1 2012, 09:10 AM

For my part - wrong!
I would be just as critical of any minority interest which was represented by a column in the NWN.
I would imagine that country matters in general are of an interest to a large number of readers of the NWN.
I would also imagine that articles on farming and blood"sports" are not.
It will be interesting to leave it for now, monitor the column and come back later to see the result.
I could well be proved wrong especially if Mr. Davies reads this and modifies his subject matter accordingly.
I think we have done this to death now so I am backing out.

Posted by: Simon Kirby Aug 1 2012, 09:16 AM

Your questions are good ones. I think I've read CM twice in the last year, and both times were talking about killing stuff, but twice in fifty-odd issues doesn't support the allegation, and I agree that unfounded allegations deserve busting. It's possible NWN can turn up the copy for the otter article, but in the mean time I'm going to make an effrto to read CM objectively and make a more informed judgement in a coupole fo months time.

Posted by: Andy Capp Aug 1 2012, 09:54 AM

I really don't understand this point of view.

I think a minority interest column is just fine, I would only be concerned if it was at the expense of something more valuable.

Country Matters is the name of the column, but I understand that Mr Davies actually invites people to write to him to cover anything they might think is of interest. Perhaps his mail bag is largely agriculture and field sports.

I would imagine that articles on farming are rather an exclusive subject, esoteric if you like, but if I was pro or anti hunting or shooting, then I'd most certainly be interested in what he has to say on that subject.

I don't see this as we being right or wrong. My only concern is that a few people here might have been 'guilty' of a similar 'crime' as Mr Davies, that is, a spin or propaganda 'war' on the column.

Posted by: Biker1 Aug 1 2012, 09:58 AM

OK fine lets have one on Bikes and Biking, or railways, or tiddlywinks or maybe http://www.pylons.org/.

Posted by: Andy Capp Aug 1 2012, 10:00 AM

Actually, I think behind your joke, there is a good idea, accept I'm thinking maybe cycling instead of bikes.

Posted by: Biker1 Aug 1 2012, 11:49 AM

Yes, one on cycling possibly about how to ride one properly and within the law.
Did you see the letter in the NWN last week about the cyclist and the zebra crossing?
(OOOps, digressing to another thread!!)

Posted by: Andy Capp Aug 1 2012, 12:40 PM

Too late...


...yes I did!

Posted by: Nothing Much Aug 1 2012, 01:11 PM

A bit of digression gets me going.
A bloke who posts spent his life erecting Pylons all round the known world .
So there is one member of the Erection Appreciation society.
ce

Posted by: On the edge Aug 1 2012, 03:00 PM

Afraid my understanding of the word propaganda and the difference between propaganda and promotion is clearly very different to yours. That means asking me for examples in this case would be like asking where the music was in an organ. Sorry, there is not a lot more I can add.

Posted by: Andy Capp Aug 1 2012, 05:24 PM

I am ask you to give me an example of a an article Mr Davies has written that was in your opinion, propaganda. I reeeeeeeeealy don't understand what the problem is here.

Posted by: Newbelly Aug 1 2012, 05:44 PM

I would agree. Propaganda seeks a result in emotion not intellect.

Prior to WW1, it did not necessarily have the insidious meaning it does now.

Posted by: Andy Capp Aug 1 2012, 06:10 PM

Whatever it means, I would just like one of the people that feel that the CM column is a farming/hunting propeganda machine, to point out examples of where that has occurred. I am not denying or supporting the idea that it is (although I am currently sceptical), I would just like to see some evidence.

I am now going to make a point of reading the column, so I may make my own mind up.

Posted by: Newbelly Aug 1 2012, 06:35 PM

Great. But guard against confusing propaganda with rhetoric!

Posted by: Andy Capp Aug 1 2012, 07:25 PM

In what way?

Posted by: Newbelly Aug 1 2012, 08:17 PM

In the usual way of understanding the meaning of words.

As "On The Edge" says, there is not a lot more I can add.

Posted by: Andy Capp Aug 1 2012, 08:31 PM

In other words, without Wiki you can't explain.

Posted by: Newbelly Aug 1 2012, 08:35 PM

Don't rely on Wiki, I have an education

Posted by: Andy Capp Aug 1 2012, 08:36 PM

You were late for the lesson on manners I see.

Posted by: Newbelly Aug 1 2012, 08:50 PM

A big building, one of the major country estates, so could get lost sometimes. But never late for the lesson on hypocrisy.

Posted by: Andy Capp Aug 1 2012, 08:55 PM

Sadly, I was rubbish at school, so I humbly bow in the presence of superior intellect.

Posted by: Simon Kirby Aug 1 2012, 08:57 PM

Nope, I don't understand that either. I think I have a reasonable grasp of what each is - OtE's description of propaganda as a long-term subliminal campaign was good, and hence why it's not easy to cite examples, and rhetoric is really just the art of persuasion - but I don't understand what point it is you're making by comparing one with the other.

Posted by: Newbelly Aug 1 2012, 09:04 PM

Being "rubbish at school" does not mean you are thick. There are lots of people who left education early and went on to be very succesful and have become wealthy.

Posted by: Andy Capp Aug 1 2012, 09:21 PM

Just as having an education doesn't mean one is knowledgeable or intelligent either; however, I'd rather debate and discuss CM, propaganda, rhetoric et al. than have this childish spat.

Posted by: Newbelly Aug 1 2012, 09:27 PM

Thanks. OK, I pass you back to "On the Edge".

Posted by: Blake Aug 2 2012, 10:29 AM

Does anyone know why the TV guide was so suddenly stopped?

Posted by: Dodgys smarter brother. Aug 2 2012, 11:58 AM

I think you'll find it was around the time when 'listings' were deemed to be copyright, and publications had to pay for them if they wished to print them.

Posted by: Newbelly Aug 2 2012, 02:18 PM

Also, some research showed that people rely more on electronic guides on the TV nowadays, but agree that cost is probably the major issue.

Posted by: JeffG Aug 2 2012, 03:06 PM

I prefer a hard copy myself, then I don't have to turn on the TV to find out if I want to turn on the TV

Posted by: Newbelly Aug 2 2012, 03:12 PM

Sad, I know, but I have an app on my phone and iPad

Posted by: Blake Aug 2 2012, 03:59 PM

Cost; that does not really stand up as free newspapers still have them...

Posted by: Dodgys smarter brother. Aug 2 2012, 04:18 PM

You're comparing 'now' with 'then'. A couple of people were taken to Court because they were lifting stuff from the Listings magazines and running it. A Court held that listings were in fact copyright, and any user should pay for them. At that time nearly everyone (including the N.W.N.) stopped running them.

Wailing, hair pulling, gnashing of teeth. Great debate as to ways around it. Great debate as to which channels should be covered? Why, for instance would some newspapers want to put even more money into Murdochs' pocket? Should they run listings for all the movie channels? Have you seen how many channels the BBC are running during the Olympics? What about the religious channels, should they all be listed?(and if not, why not) Channels for those who do not have English as a first language, what about them? I believe there are nearly 700 free-to-air channels at the moment. Which one's should a rural(ish) local paper run to keep it's readership happy?

Thus many local papers and magazines decided it was just not worth the hassle of trying to get it right. They stopped listings altogether.

However, the Press Association recently came to the rescue with a spiffing wheeze whereby they paid for the listings and distributed them to their members. However, those pages are sponsored and carry branding as a trade off.

This might interest you..

http://www.bds.tv/

Posted by: JeffG Aug 2 2012, 08:47 PM

I suppose I could too (though an Android man myself) but you'll have a job to separate me from my Radio Times.

Posted by: Blake Aug 3 2012, 01:33 PM

The Out and About section is not bad but has rather too much advertising.

Posted by: Timbo Aug 3 2012, 03:35 PM

Why don't you apply for the edition of the Editor then, if you can do a better job.

Posted by: Biker1 Aug 4 2012, 07:52 AM

What a ridiculous suggestion.
I can tell a bad singer when I hear one but I don't claim that I can sing!

Posted by: On the edge Aug 4 2012, 09:33 AM

Or start your own micro paper...

Posted by: blackdog Aug 5 2012, 02:49 PM

I haven't looked at TV listings in a paper for years - waste of space as far as I am concerned. Much easier to turn on the TV or check online. Most of my non-sport watching is done when I want to watch, not when the broadcasters want to transmit - stuff I have recorded, or on demand stuff via Sky or online sources.

From time to time I miss programmes, unaware a new series has started or somesuch - but these days you can get most of them online, if not they will be repeated ad inifintum so I know I will have the opportunity to watch them again soon enough.

Posted by: Timbo Aug 5 2012, 04:12 PM

That's true but you wouldn't publicly insult say, Cher Lloyd now would you?
There's a difference between complaining and then moaning about it on the forum of the publication in question!

Posted by: Biker1 Aug 5 2012, 10:18 PM

Who?

By the way Paul McCartney was crap at both the Jubilee concert and Olympic opening ceremony.

Posted by: Penelope Aug 5 2012, 11:00 PM

Talentless oap, surely they could have had someone a little less wrinkly.

Posted by: Biker1 Aug 6 2012, 10:04 AM

The main theme of "Country Matters" this week was the cancellation of the http://www.gamefair.co.uk/ which, as you can see, promotes country "sports" (read for that the killing of wild animals).
What that has to do with Newbury or even West Berks is a mystery to me.

Posted by: Baffers100 Aug 6 2012, 10:46 PM

Hmm, not sure. Given how awful she is I probably would publicly insult her!

I agree with the comments on here about the paper being much lighter on content than it used to be, and also agree with the comments on the advertising. I have before written to the journalist of an article where I have taken an isue as to the quality of the editorial. In my experiences the responses are are slightly on the shirty side, and the badly written piece remains.

I stop whinging about it now and purposely read the articles looking for errors. No errors = happy morning. I'm not saying I want the editors job. I am saying they should pay more care and attention to published media, it's their job after all!

Posted by: Andy Capp Aug 6 2012, 11:16 PM

I think the theme this week was the cost to the economy of cancelled events due to the wet weather. I would imagine there might be some businesses in the district that were due to appear, but if true, that wasn't made clear in the article. While I don't support hunting without conservation being the cause, I find it harder to justifiably denounce hunting to eat.

If we are to have a propaganda or not gauge, in my view, this weeks was mild propaganda.

Posted by: On the edge Aug 7 2012, 04:51 AM

Not too sure you can have mild propaganda. That's a bit like saying 'she's a bit pregnant'.

Posted by: Andy Capp Aug 7 2012, 09:39 AM

Well I have heard the saying heavily pregnant, so I don't see anything wrong there. The point I make is that I don't think the article was overt propaganda. My reservations are only that I don't know if the figures stated are true and if there isn't anything left out. As for the subject matter of a game fair, I refer back to my previous post.

Posted by: dannyboy Aug 7 2012, 09:41 AM

Surely a game fair is fair game for a Country matters column?

Posted by: Andy Capp Aug 7 2012, 09:45 AM

Yes it is.

Posted by: On the edge Aug 7 2012, 12:03 PM

I'll go with that - agree it's certainly not overt.

Posted by: Andy Capp Aug 7 2012, 12:09 PM

What I do see is an apparent 'soft focus' view of hunting and shooting from the CLA people. The problem I have there is I am at odds with myself as to whether the welfare of animals' path to my dinner table is kinder than it is compared to the path they follow to the hunters'.

Posted by: Biker1 Aug 7 2012, 04:35 PM

If it was local maybe.
This is a local paper for West Berks.

Posted by: On the edge Aug 7 2012, 08:10 PM

Have no issue with people hunting for food, or in extremis to eliminate vermin. I certainly do strongly object to people simply hunting for fun or enjoyment. Similarly, very much against factory farming and mass killing of animals in food chain.

Posted by: JeffG Aug 7 2012, 09:25 PM

I agree with the first part. The second part implies that you would never eat eggs because virtually all male chicks are suffocated after hatching by putting them in chambers and removing the air. Unless we are vegan, we have to live with the second part.

Posted by: Biker1 Aug 13 2012, 09:40 PM

Correct me if I'm wrong, and I may have got hold of a rogue copy, but is the same report about Allenova Ballet exam success on both pages 26 and 28 of this week's NWN?
One way of getting "less news" in the same size paper!

(By the way "Country Matters" was all about farming again this week!)