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> Ken Barlow / Bill Roache
eternalriver
post May 1 2013, 11:47 PM
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Seriously, is there any merit in arresting an 81 year old television soap icon for something that appears to be a random and isolated incident 46 years ago, during the "Summer of Love", where a probably star-stuck girl of 15, who is now 62 /63 years of age, was apparently "raped" by him? This "coming out" of historical assault issues is getting out of hand. Why wasn't this reported at the time? It is no secret that the celebrity culture was sprouting at this time and this sort of thing (hedonism with groupies) was part of it. I'm too young to know this for sure but old enough to be suspicious of motives behind these ridiculous claims.
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NWNREADER
post May 2 2013, 06:19 AM
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Maybe the victims would be the best ones to answer your questions.....
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pbonnay
post May 2 2013, 07:17 AM
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If the police wish to focus on some historical crimes, how about some of the unsolved, less-reported murders (and the 3000 killings in Northern Ireland) or do they have to spend all their effort on investigating journalists/tv personalities and reinvestigating the (already solved) Stephen Lawrence case.
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NWNREADER
post May 2 2013, 07:32 AM
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Murder investigations never close, so all those offences are still 'under investigation' to some extent and there is a cold case operation in place.
I'm not aware the Lawrence case is being re-investigated. Indeed, one of the convicted men has withdrawn his appeal....
There is an issue about the way police are forced to prioritise their investigations, often led by media interests. Following on from the Savile revelations all manner of allegations are being made, some will be 100% genuine (and often quite harrowing), some will be unprovable (so the named suspect is branded), some will be false and made by glory seekers. Sometimes, and this can be the vital 'pro' for the investigations, it is only when someone makes the formal complaint that the quality and quantity of corroborating evidence comes forward.
If you propose a Statute of Limitations, be careful what you wish for..
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dannyboy
post May 2 2013, 07:50 AM
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QUOTE (eternalriver @ May 2 2013, 12:47 AM) *
Seriously, is there any merit in arresting an 81 year old television soap icon for something that appears to be a random and isolated incident 46 years ago, during the "Summer of Love", where a probably star-stuck girl of 15, who is now 62 /63 years of age, was apparently "raped" by him? This "coming out" of historical assault issues is getting out of hand. Why wasn't this reported at the time? It is no secret that the celebrity culture was sprouting at this time and this sort of thing (hedonism with groupies) was part of it. I'm too young to know this for sure but old enough to be suspicious of motives behind these ridiculous claims.

I'd imagine every aging celebrity must be awaiting a call from the police. If someone makes an allegation, the police are duty bound to follow it up.

I agree entirely with what you say - and find the list of 'celebrities' investigated rather odd.
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massifheed
post May 2 2013, 09:34 AM
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QUOTE (eternalriver @ May 2 2013, 12:47 AM) *
Seriously, is there any merit in arresting an 81 year old television soap icon for something that appears to be a random and isolated incident 46 years ago...


Luckily that view wasn't taken with this case...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-22379286

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motormad
post May 2 2013, 10:42 AM
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QUOTE (eternalriver @ May 2 2013, 12:47 AM) *
Seriously, is there any merit in arresting an 81 year old television soap icon for something that appears to be a random and isolated incident 46 years ago, during the "Summer of Love", where a probably star-stuck girl of 15, who is now 62 /63 years of age, was apparently "raped" by him? This "coming out" of historical assault issues is getting out of hand. Why wasn't this reported at the time? It is no secret that the celebrity culture was sprouting at this time and this sort of thing (hedonism with groupies) was part of it. I'm too young to know this for sure but old enough to be suspicious of motives behind these ridiculous claims.


I agree.

Not saying to excuse it but how come magically all of these "crimes" are now being brought up.... why? What motives? Surely 50 years later is not the time to bring things up..


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massifheed
post May 2 2013, 11:15 AM
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QUOTE (motormad @ May 2 2013, 11:42 AM) *
Not saying to excuse it but how come magically all of these "crimes" are now being brought up.... why?


Possibly because at the time the victims were afraid to report it, or thought they wouldn't be believed or it would be covered up - after all, it worked for Savile. There are any number of reasons a person wouldn't report such a crime. Just because it happened a long time ago doesn't mean the victim doesn't have the right to report it, have it investigated and deserve justice if there has been an offence committed.

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NWNREADER
post May 2 2013, 11:58 AM
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QUOTE (motormad @ May 2 2013, 11:42 AM) *
I agree.

Not saying to excuse it but how come magically all of these "crimes" are now being brought up.... why? What motives? Surely 50 years later is not the time to bring things up..


If ever (Heaven forbid) you are a victim you may understand
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motormad
post May 2 2013, 01:13 PM
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How do you know I am not, or have not been involved directly in such a situation?

QUOTE (massifheed @ May 2 2013, 12:15 PM) *
Possibly because at the time the victims were afraid to report it, or thought they wouldn't be believed or it would be covered up - after all, it worked for Savile. There are any number of reasons a person wouldn't report such a crime. Just because it happened a long time ago doesn't mean the victim doesn't have the right to report it, have it investigated and deserve justice if there has been an offence committed.


That's not what I'm saying.

I'm just saying that it's quite funny that one comes forward and they all start flooding forward. DNA Evidence was not around back in those days, it's very difficult to prove anything. It's word of one person against word of another. It's happened before, people have gotten cleared from false accusations.

I'm not saying every victim is crying wolf but simply questioning whether any of the victims that have come flooding forward are actually being honest, or taking an event and twisting it to seem worse to justify something in their mind.



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massifheed
post May 2 2013, 01:59 PM
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QUOTE (motormad @ May 2 2013, 02:13 PM) *
That's not what I'm saying.


You're not making it clear what you're saying! rolleyes.gif

QUOTE (motormad @ May 2 2013, 02:13 PM) *
I'm not saying every victim is crying wolf but simply questioning whether any of the victims that have come flooding forward are actually being honest, or taking an event and twisting it to seem worse to justify something in their mind.


What?!?


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pbonnay
post May 2 2013, 02:07 PM
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QUOTE (NWNREADER @ May 2 2013, 08:32 AM) *
Murder investigations never close, so all those offences are still 'under investigation' to some extent and there is a cold case operation in place.
/


The number of cold case reviews is very small and current murder investigations in London have been stripped of resources with staff being sent to Ops Weeting, Elvedon and Tuleta.

I think some priorities are getting confused.
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GMR
post May 2 2013, 04:08 PM
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QUOTE (eternalriver @ May 2 2013, 12:47 AM) *
Seriously, is there any merit in arresting an 81 year old television soap icon for something that appears to be a random and isolated incident 46 years ago, during the "Summer of Love", where a probably star-stuck girl of 15, who is now 62 /63 years of age, was apparently "raped" by him? This "coming out" of historical assault issues is getting out of hand. Why wasn't this reported at the time? It is no secret that the celebrity culture was sprouting at this time and this sort of thing (hedonism with groupies) was part of it. I'm too young to know this for sure but old enough to be suspicious of motives behind these ridiculous claims.


Of course. Age has nothing to do with it. What it shows is that if you commit such a crime you will spend the rest of your life looking over your shoulder if you haven't been caught at the time. Look at Stuart Hall, after verbally abusing his victims for spouting "such lies," he eventually admitted he did it. Time won't grant your freedom.
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Simon Kirby
post May 2 2013, 04:16 PM
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QUOTE (GMR @ May 2 2013, 05:08 PM) *
Of course. Age has nothing to do with it. What is shows is that if you commit such a crime you will spend the rest of your life looking over your shoulder if you haven't been caught at the time. Look at Stuart Hall, after verbally abusing his victims for spouting such lies, he eventually admitted he did it. Time won't grant your freedom.

Well said GMR.


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Squelchy
post May 2 2013, 05:33 PM
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QUOTE (eternalriver @ May 2 2013, 12:47 AM) *
these ridiculous claims.



If you have any evidence whatsoever that these claims are ridiculous, I would suggest you get in touch with Roache's defence team straught away.
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GMR
post May 2 2013, 06:15 PM
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QUOTE (Squelchy @ May 2 2013, 06:33 PM) *
If you have any evidence whatsoever that these claims are ridiculous, I would suggest you get in touch with Roache's defence team straught away.



I second that. In fact that is exactly what Stuart Hall, Jimmy Saville, Jim Davidson and many more said. "
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Andy Capp
post May 2 2013, 06:32 PM
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I'm not altogether comfortable with all that is going on either. While I have no sympathy for any guilty party, the up shot of all this is that we will still not be safe from sexual predators, but we will become increasingly more paranoid of children being with other people.
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blackdog
post May 2 2013, 06:52 PM
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The problem with naming the accused is that not all those accused are found guilty - but the accusation can blight their lives nevertheless. Unless they are actively predatory I don't really see what is gained from naming them before their guilt can be confirmed (or not). If they are deemed to be dangerous then that is another matter - the public deserve to be warned.
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motormad
post May 2 2013, 07:44 PM
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QUOTE (blackdog @ May 2 2013, 07:52 PM) *
The problem with naming the accused is that not all those accused are found guilty - but the accusation can blight their lives nevertheless. Unless they are actively predatory I don't really see what is gained from naming them before their guilt can be confirmed (or not). If they are deemed to be dangerous then that is another matter - the public deserve to be warned.


Nail. Head.


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Andy Capp
post May 2 2013, 07:55 PM
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QUOTE (blackdog @ May 2 2013, 07:52 PM) *
The problem with naming the accused is that not all those accused are found guilty - but the accusation can blight their lives nevertheless. Unless they are actively predatory I don't really see what is gained from naming them before their guilt can be confirmed (or not). If they are deemed to be dangerous then that is another matter - the public deserve to be warned.

I'd like to think the CPS has a reasonable idea about the possible guilt of an accused. Also, apparently on average, 1 rape victim in 30 will see their attacker brought to justice. This would suggest a lot of dishonest victims, or attackers getting away with it.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/9...tions-each.html
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