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Newbury Today Forum _ Random Rants _ EU fail #1: low CO2 targets and filthy diesels cars

Posted by: Andy Capp Feb 28 2016, 10:01 AM

My spin, but it's fun.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3467612/Why-diesel-car-greatest-s-touted-low-carbon-fuel-s-cost-tens-thousands-lives-air-filthier.html

Posted by: je suis Charlie Feb 28 2016, 11:14 AM

Oh no! Plagues of locusts oer the earth, world stops spinning, sun explodes, woe is me! Oh, and AC reads the Wail! tongue.gif

Posted by: Andy Capp Feb 28 2016, 01:21 PM

Yes I do, but I don't inhale and only the bits I approve of or supports my views! tongue.gif

Posted by: blackdog Mar 2 2016, 11:07 AM

Interesting spin - mine would be:

EU attempt to save lives foiled by UK government bungling.

Posted by: Biker1 Mar 2 2016, 11:48 AM

QUOTE (blackdog @ Mar 2 2016, 12:07 PM) *
Interesting spin - mine would be:

EU attempt to save lives foiled by UK government bungling.

OK, but trouble is the EU has no control over the world's worst polluters.

Posted by: Andy Capp Mar 2 2016, 12:19 PM

QUOTE (blackdog @ Mar 2 2016, 11:07 AM) *
Interesting spin - mine would be:

EU attempt to save lives foiled by UK government bungling.

I'm not sure about that, this is the bit that inspired my headline: The New Labour government decided to do that in the wake of a 1998 EU directive, which compelled Britain to cut CO2 emissions from vehicles by 25 per cent by 2020.

Posted by: Turin Machine Mar 2 2016, 08:18 PM

QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Mar 2 2016, 12:19 PM) *
I'm not sure about that, this is the bit that inspired my headline: The New Labour government decided to do that in the wake of a 1998 EU directive, which compelled Britain to cut CO2 emissions from vehicles by 25 per cent by 2020.

But petrol cars are the worst polluters of CO2, so drive a diesel! Ah, see the problem?

Posted by: Turin Machine Feb 23 2017, 05:18 PM

Bump!!

VW, up 17% in the states while every one else including the likes of GM are down, static or at best 2% up and what's helping to fuel the rise? Yup, you guessed it, peoples who took vw up on their offer to buy back their nasty products going back into showrooms to buy another. Ask me? They deserve Donald.

Posted by: Turin Machine May 3 2017, 11:20 AM

Volkswagen said profit at its troubled core division soared in the first three months of the year, first-quarter operating profit at VW's largest division surged to 869 million euros ($948.9 million) from 73 million a year earlier, the carmaker said on Wednesday, group operating profit jumped 40 percent to 4.37 billion euros in the three months to the end of March, one of the carmaker's highest-ever quarterly results. The Wolfsburg-based group expects the 2017 return on sales to come in between 6 and 7 percent, after reaching 6.7 percent in 2016, and group revenue to exceed last year's record 217 billion euros by as much as 4 percent. smile.gif

Posted by: je suis Charlie May 3 2017, 12:08 PM

5,
4,
3,
2,
1,

Posted by: On the edge May 3 2017, 12:35 PM

QUOTE (Turin Machine @ May 3 2017, 12:20 PM) *
Volkswagen said profit at its troubled core division soared in the first three months of the year, first-quarter operating profit at VW's largest division surged to 869 million euros ($948.9 million) from 73 million a year earlier, the carmaker said on Wednesday, group operating profit jumped 40 percent to 4.37 billion euros in the three months to the end of March, one of the carmaker's highest-ever quarterly results. The Wolfsburg-based group expects the 2017 return on sales to come in between 6 and 7 percent, after reaching 6.7 percent in 2016, and group revenue to exceed last year's record 217 billion euros by as much as 4 percent. smile.gif


Was it Lincoln who said you can only govern with the consent of the people.

The public take as much notice of the 'emission figures' as they did of the 'miles per gallon' numbers in years gone by.

Posted by: Andy Capp May 3 2017, 07:22 PM

QUOTE (On the edge @ May 3 2017, 01:35 PM) *
Was it Lincoln who said you can only govern with the consent of the people.

The public take as much notice of the 'emission figures' as they did of the 'miles per gallon' numbers in years gone by.

Which is why it is important that mummy is there to hide the matches in a safe place, just in case baby finds them!

Posted by: je suis Charlie May 3 2017, 07:39 PM

QUOTE (Andy Capp @ May 3 2017, 08:22 PM) *
Which is why it is important that mummy is there to hide the matches in a safe place, just in case baby finds them!

It might help if you didn't just bump the keyboard with your forehead.

Posted by: On the edge May 4 2017, 06:12 AM

QUOTE (Andy Capp @ May 3 2017, 08:22 PM) *
Which is why it is important that mummy is there to hide the matches in a safe place, just in case baby finds them!


Yes, quite right; the key is 'in a safe place'!

I must admit, when it comes to this type of failure, which is akin to tax dodging by certain big companies the underlying problem is that the Government (Mummy) has failed to create the right rules and certainly failed to properly manage adherence. i.e. a good example of good adherence is Weights and Measures, their tests (periodically) will include the software and mechanics of the scale they are testing.

Posted by: Andy Capp May 4 2017, 08:24 AM

That's right: while we have companies that do things like VW did and a load of baying sheep that suck-up their hype, we need an authority to protect us. Sadly we were let down and people are apparently dying because of it.

Posted by: newres May 4 2017, 08:36 AM

QUOTE (Andy Capp @ May 4 2017, 09:24 AM) *
That's right: while we have companies that do things like VW did and a load of baying sheep that suck-up their hype, we need an authority to protect us. Sadly we were let down and people are apparently dying because of it.

We should start seeing less of them post Brexit as people won't be able to afford them.

Posted by: Turin Machine May 4 2017, 10:13 AM

QUOTE (newres @ May 4 2017, 09:36 AM) *
We should start seeing less of them post Brexit as people won't be able to afford them.

Only poor people old boy, only poor people.

Posted by: gel May 6 2017, 05:51 PM

Let's not forget Gordon Brown drove this cheered on by the myopic green lobby.

Besides those purchased by private owners, many companies on the CO2
reduction excursion/ green agenda, changed their company car policies overnight.
Their employees with jobs requiring company cars had to accept diesel cars.
And business purchasers were by far the biggest share of the market.

Posted by: Berkshirelad May 8 2017, 08:41 AM

QUOTE (Andy Capp @ May 4 2017, 09:24 AM) *
That's right: while we have companies that do things like VW did and a load of baying sheep that suck-up their hype, we need an authority to protect us. Sadly we were let down and people are apparently dying because of it.


I still don't see that VW has done anything wrong legally.

They were given a set of regulations and testing conditions and optimised their vehicles to that regime.

US manufacturers have been doing it for decades. In California, exhausts emissions are set lower than other states. What did GM. Ford, etc do - simply added an engine-driven air pump to dilute the exhaust gas prior to the tailpipe so that the lower CO percentages were reached. This, of course, didn't change the overall exhaust pollution at all.

Posted by: Berkshirelad May 8 2017, 08:47 AM

QUOTE (gel @ May 6 2017, 06:51 PM) *
Let's not forget Gordon Brown drove this cheered on by the myopic green lobby.

Besides those purchased by private owners, many companies on the CO2
reduction excursion/ green agenda, changed their company car policies overnight.
Their employees with jobs requiring company cars had to accept diesel cars.
And business purchasers were by far the biggest share of the market.



This whole thing is nothing to do with clean air and saving lives, but just another way of raising revenue.

If diesels were actually so bad, they would be banned altogether on health grounds, but this is not what is happening merely additional tax and all those filthy black cabs, vans, buses, etc get off scot free.

Scrappage makes not a blind bit of difference for me. I have an old (2002) diesel Rover 75 and I am about to retire. Even if the government offered me £5000 scrappage, I still could not afford a new car.

Posted by: On the edge May 8 2017, 11:40 AM

QUOTE (Berkshirelad @ May 8 2017, 09:47 AM) *
This whole thing is nothing to do with clean air and saving lives, but just another way of raising revenue.

If diesels were actually so bad, they would be banned altogether on health grounds, but this is not what is happening merely additional tax and all those filthy black cabs, vans, buses, etc get off scot free.

....


Wot; like they've banned smoking!

Posted by: Turin Machine May 8 2017, 12:06 PM

If they want to save lives, ban tobacco, alcohol and fast food. That's a few hundred thousand lives saved per year.

Posted by: James_Trinder May 8 2017, 12:39 PM

QUOTE (Berkshirelad @ May 8 2017, 09:47 AM) *
Even if the government offered me £5000 scrappage, I still could not afford a new car.


That is true but you would be most of the way to a new Dacia at £6000.

Posted by: Andy Capp May 8 2017, 12:58 PM

QUOTE (Berkshirelad @ May 8 2017, 09:41 AM) *
I still don't see that VW has done anything wrong legally. They were given a set of regulations and testing conditions and optimised their vehicles to that regime.

There's a thing called lying by omission, but if VW did nothing wrong, I'm surprised they are willing to spend so much money 'rectifying' the issue.

Posted by: Andy Capp May 8 2017, 01:07 PM

QUOTE (Turin Machine @ May 8 2017, 01:06 PM) *
If they want to save lives, ban tobacco, alcohol and fast food. That's a few hundred thousand lives saved per year.

Quite, but then what would the poor and unintelligent people do with their day.

Posted by: Andy Capp May 8 2017, 01:15 PM

...spend all their time on here complaining about things, probably.

Posted by: Berkshirelad May 8 2017, 02:17 PM

QUOTE (James_Trinder @ May 8 2017, 01:39 PM) *
That is true but you would be most of the way to a new Dacia at £6000.



maybe, but they don't offer a hybrid or electric version at anywhere like £6000

Posted by: On the edge May 8 2017, 04:18 PM

QUOTE (Andy Capp @ May 8 2017, 02:07 PM) *
Quite, but then what would the poor and unintelligent people do with their day.

LibDems missed a trick, this is allegedly the core Brexit vote!

Posted by: Biker1 May 8 2017, 04:30 PM

QUOTE (Turin Machine @ May 8 2017, 01:06 PM) *
If they want to save lives, ban tobacco, alcohol and fast food. That's a few hundred thousand lives saved per year.

In addition to that don't take the train, they have nasty diesel engines too. In fact the HST's have German ones!
Oh and don't buy all those goods in the supermarkets, nasty diesel lorries bring them.
Oh and don't expect cheap consumer goods from the Far East, they come in diesel powered ships.
For the same reason don't book that cruise.
Can't take the bus either because guess what.......
Come to think of it how much NOX does a plane pump out? Better be safe and cancel that holiday / business trip.
And think of all the money saved not building that extra runway at Heathrow.
No, the only way to get about is to drive a nice, environment friendly petrol car that pumps out perfumed fresh air!
tongue.gif tongue.gif tongue.gif

Posted by: Andy Capp May 8 2017, 06:44 PM

QUOTE (Biker1 @ May 8 2017, 05:30 PM) *
In addition to that don't take the train, they have nasty diesel engines too. In fact the HST's have German ones!
Oh and don't buy all those goods in the supermarkets, nasty diesel lorries bring them.
Oh and don't expect cheap consumer goods from the Far East, they come in diesel powered ships.
For the same reason don't book that cruise.
Can't take the bus either because guess what.......
Come to think of it how much NOX does a plane pump out? Better be safe and cancel that holiday / business trip.
And think of all the money saved not building that extra runway at Heathrow.
No, the only way to get about is to drive a nice, environment friendly petrol car that pumps out perfumed fresh air!
tongue.gif tongue.gif tongue.gif

Once we're out of the EU we will be able to go round dumping NOx at our leisure.

Posted by: je suis Charlie May 8 2017, 06:59 PM

QUOTE (Andy Capp @ May 8 2017, 07:44 PM) *
Once we're out of the EU we will be able to go round dumping NOx at our leisure.

Oh, if you insist!

Posted by: Simon Kirby May 8 2017, 07:41 PM

QUOTE (Andy Capp @ May 8 2017, 07:44 PM) *
Once we're out of the EU we will be able to go round dumping NOx at our leisure.

There won't be any of those new-fangled Diesel engines once we've taken back control and all the nasty foreigners have taken their horrid foreign technology with them - it'll be back to good old-fashioned British engineering for everyone...

Posted by: je suis Charlie May 8 2017, 10:05 PM

Too techy for me, I'm saving up for a nice Ford pilot V8. Latest fing round here, gonna be a babe magnet, flat head, side valves, all in a tasteful black. Gonna bling it up with some 12" rimz an a nice nickle rad cap wiv dat whirly fing Inna middle. Gonna be totally cool man, might save up n buy some of dem wicked whitewall tyres for it. 'S gonna be like so totally Bonnie n Clyde, make yer eyes pop n dat! cool.gif

Posted by: On the edge May 9 2017, 06:31 AM

QUOTE (Simon Kirby @ May 8 2017, 08:41 PM) *
There won't be any of those new-fangled Diesel engines once we've taken back control and all the nasty foreigners have taken their horrid foreign technology with them - it'll be back to good old-fashioned British engineering for everyone...


This, for me, encapsulates the biggest, and to be honest, only real problem with us leaving Europe. We simply don't have the innovative or managerial competence to survive on our own, if ever we did.

Our survival in Europe, once we'd spent the cash we got from 'selling the farm' was as Europe's low wage, bang it together zone.

Where now?

Posted by: Andy Capp May 9 2017, 06:50 AM

QUOTE (On the edge @ May 9 2017, 07:31 AM) *
This, for me, encapsulates the biggest, and to be honest, only real problem with us leaving Europe. We simply don't have the innovative or managerial competence to survive on our own, if ever we did.

Our survival in Europe, once we'd spent the cash we got from 'selling the farm' was as Europe's low wage, bang it together zone.

Where now?

More the same, except we have the illusion of being in control that the Monster Raving Tories can exploit.

Posted by: On the edge May 9 2017, 07:10 AM

QUOTE (Andy Capp @ May 9 2017, 07:50 AM) *
More the same, except we have the illusion of being in control that the Monster Raving Tories can exploit.


Yes, that seems to be the reality. Ironic, because if we'd stayed in, the EU was likely to have had another 'Greece' on its hands in a decade or so. Coming out, they'll have the advantage of a low wage area to exploit; without the worry. Triples all round

Posted by: je suis Charlie May 9 2017, 08:08 AM

QUOTE (Andy Capp @ May 9 2017, 07:50 AM) *
More the same, except we have the illusion of being in control that the Monster Raving Tories can exploit.

Keyboard, meet forehead. Forehead? Meet keyboard.

Posted by: Berkshirelad May 9 2017, 08:27 AM

QUOTE (Simon Kirby @ May 8 2017, 08:41 PM) *
There won't be any of those new-fangled Diesel engines once we've taken back control and all the nasty foreigners have taken their horrid foreign technology with them - it'll be back to good old-fashioned British engineering for everyone...


Oi!

There was nothing wrong with the Morris Marina/Ital...








....that couldn't be sorted out with 5 gallons of petrol and a match...

Posted by: je suis Charlie May 9 2017, 08:35 AM

QUOTE (On the edge @ May 9 2017, 07:31 AM) *
This, for me, encapsulates the biggest, and to be honest, only real problem with us leaving Europe. We simply don't have the innovative or managerial competence to survive on our own, if ever we did.

I loved this,. I think Sir Timothy John Berners-Lee would love the irony of this complaint written on the internet. laugh.gif

Posted by: Turin Machine May 9 2017, 08:40 AM

QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ May 9 2017, 09:35 AM) *
I loved this,. I think Sir Timothy John Berners-Lee would love the irony of this complaint written on the internet. laugh.gif

One presumes he wrote it using a computer (or similar device) so Charles Babbage might wish to weigh in as well. 👦

Posted by: Andy Capp May 9 2017, 10:30 AM

QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ May 9 2017, 09:35 AM) *
I loved this,. I think Sir Timothy John Berners-Lee would love the irony of this complaint written on the internet. laugh.gif

Why?

Posted by: Turin Machine May 9 2017, 11:09 AM

QUOTE (Andy Capp @ May 9 2017, 11:30 AM) *
Why?

Perhaps he was thinking of this, "Sir Timothy John Berners-Lee OM KBE FRS FREng FRSA FBCS, also known as TimBL, is an English computer scientist, best known as the inventor of the World Wide Web." (Wiki)

Not the Internet per se but widely acknowledged as being the father of the internet.

Posted by: Andy Capp May 9 2017, 12:21 PM

QUOTE (Turin Machine @ May 9 2017, 12:09 PM) *
Perhaps he was thinking of this, "Sir Timothy John Berners-Lee OM KBE FRS FREng FRSA FBCS, also known as TimBL, is an English computer scientist, best known as the inventor of the World Wide Web." (Wiki)

Not the Internet per se but widely acknowledged as being the father of the internet.

Yes I see that, but I am unsure of the relevance in the argument as the inspiration, finance and support he received was through a multinational initiative, not in his shed in Battersea. CERN is an example of nations working together and not going it alone.

Posted by: Turin Machine May 9 2017, 12:36 PM

QUOTE (On the edge @ May 9 2017, 07:31 AM) *
We simply don't have the innovative or managerial competence to survive on our own.

I think he was demonstrating the paucity of the argument re lack of innovative competence and commenting on the irony of it all. Honestly, you can take it or leave it really.

Posted by: On the edge May 9 2017, 12:49 PM

QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ May 9 2017, 09:35 AM) *
I loved this,. I think Sir Timothy John Berners-Lee would love the irony of this complaint written on the internet. laugh.gif


Good, a response which graphically illustrates our problems; certainly two of them. And I've taken penicillin. If you can, think about it, but that might just uncover another national problem.

Posted by: je suis Charlie May 9 2017, 02:04 PM

QUOTE (On the edge @ May 9 2017, 01:49 PM) *
Good, a response which graphically illustrates our problems; certainly two of them. And I've taken penicillin. If you can, think about it, but that might just uncover another national problem.

Yeah but, don't be too hasty checking your DNA, might be paddling in the shallow end of the gene pool. smile.gif

Posted by: Turin Machine May 9 2017, 02:39 PM

QUOTE (On the edge @ May 9 2017, 01:49 PM) *
Good, a response which graphically illustrates our problems; certainly two of them. And I've taken penicillin. If you can, think about it, but that might just uncover another national problem.

The biggest problem we have is people like you, but not exclusively you, doing nothing but running the country down. The world won't stop spinning when we brexit, neither will countries like Germany want to stop trading. It's all scare stories and doom mongering when we should be looking forward to the future free of the hateful apron strings of people like Jean Claude.

Posted by: On the edge May 9 2017, 03:02 PM

QUOTE (Turin Machine @ May 9 2017, 03:39 PM) *
The biggest problem we have is people like you, but not exclusively you, doing nothing but running the country down. The world won't stop spinning when we brexit, neither will countries like Germany want to stop trading. It's all scare stories and doom mongering when we should be looking forward to the future free of the hateful apron strings of people like Jean Claude.


Oh dead, and I actually voted Brexit! What you don't actually like me telling is the truth. Indeed, for Joe Average on the street, there would have been little difference in or out. For me, Brexit should be an opportunity to show case what we can do, creating the high end 'thinking and directing' jobs in this country, realigning our education system to one producing commercial leaders, rather than middle managers.

So, now perhaps you'll understand that my biggest worry about Brexit, is actually people like you; still stuck in the sterile in/out debate, when we should now be worrying about tomorrow. Or do you just want your kids future to be exactly as it was on track for if we'd stayed in?

Come on, move on and lift your thoughts. As far as we are concerned, Jean Claude is as important as the night club bouncer as you leave the premises.

Posted by: On the edge May 9 2017, 03:05 PM

QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ May 9 2017, 03:04 PM) *
Yeah but, don't be too hasty checking your DNA, might be paddling in the shallow end of the gene pool. smile.gif


Darwin is supposed to have shown that we are all to apes, I'm just hoping I'm not related to you! tongue.gif

Posted by: je suis Charlie May 9 2017, 04:09 PM

QUOTE (On the edge @ May 9 2017, 04:05 PM) *
Darwin is supposed to have shown that we are all to apes, I'm just hoping I'm not related to you! tongue.gif

laugh.gif Don't worry, get a pictorial of evolution, about two thirds of the way up the tree splits into three? Got it? Well, the branch in the middle, that's homo sapiens, the branch on the left, that's Neanderthal man, the branch with no leaves on the right? The dead one? That's homo liberalous, that's you. rolleyes.gif

Posted by: Simon Kirby May 9 2017, 05:13 PM

QUOTE (Berkshirelad @ May 9 2017, 09:27 AM) *
Oi!

There was nothing wrong with the Morris Marina/Ital...








....that couldn't be sorted out with 5 gallons of petrol and a match...

smile.gif


Posted by: On the edge May 9 2017, 05:14 PM

QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ May 9 2017, 05:09 PM) *
laugh.gif Don't worry, get a pictorial of evolution, about two thirds of the way up the tree splits into three? Got it? Well, the branch in the middle, that's homo sapiens, the branch on the left, that's Neanderthal man, the branch with no leaves on the right? The dead one? That's homo liberalous, that's you. rolleyes.gif


Aaah yes, it's a different perspective looking up from the bottom of the tree! laugh.gif

Posted by: Biker1 May 9 2017, 06:16 PM

QUOTE (On the edge @ May 9 2017, 07:31 AM) *
We simply don't have the innovative or managerial competence to survive on our own, if ever we did.

Our survival in Europe, once we'd spent the cash we got from 'selling the farm' was as Europe's low wage, bang it together zone.

Where now?

Well the French government still seem to have a "post Brexit" interest in some of our industries!!
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/transport/row-as-french-rail-firm-sncf-launches-bid-to-run-london-to-birmingham-hs2-services-a3522966.htmlhttp://www.standard.co.uk/news/transport/row-as-french-rail-firm-sncf-launches-bid-to-run-london-to-birmingham-hs2-services-a3522966.html

Posted by: Andy Capp May 9 2017, 06:34 PM

QUOTE (Biker1 @ May 9 2017, 07:16 PM) *
Well the French government still seem to have a "post Brexit" interest in some of our industries!!
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/transport/row-as-french-rail-firm-sncf-launches-bid-to-run-london-to-birmingham-hs2-services-a3522966.htmlhttp://www.standard.co.uk/news/transport/row-as-french-rail-firm-sncf-launches-bid-to-run-london-to-birmingham-hs2-services-a3522966.html

The Monster Rabid Tories call it inward investment.

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome May 9 2017, 06:56 PM

QUOTE (Andy Capp @ May 9 2017, 07:34 PM) *
The Monster Rabid Tories call it inward investment.

The Monster Rabid Tories are going to win huge. Goodbye JC. Goodbye little Timmy. Up yours the Ginger krankie. The people want Brexit. And they want it now. And they are fed up with all the remoaners. If the remoaners love the EU that much may I suggest they move whilst they can and take EU citizenship whatever that is. Personally I'm English and then British. Some others may feel European. They should go if they want to feel at home. After all Juncker thinks the English language is on the way out anyway. The unelected raddled old freeloading soak.

Posted by: je suis Charlie May 9 2017, 07:08 PM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ May 9 2017, 07:56 PM) *
The Monster Rabid Tories are going to win huge. Goodbye JC. Goodbye little Timmy. Up yours the Ginger krankie. The people want Brexit. And they want it now. And they are fed up with all the remoaners. If the remoaners love the EU that much may I suggest they move whilst they can and take EU citizenship whatever that is. Personally I'm English and then British. Some others may feel European. They should go if they want to feel at home. After all Juncker thinks the English language is on the way out anyway. The raddled old freeloading soak.

Exactly. Boot the p@¥$ head into touch.

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome May 9 2017, 09:14 PM

https://mobile.twitter.com/GuyVerhofstadt/status/861862550706769920

Very grown up. Another 1% on the Brexit side. They really don't get the British so they? 😂

Posted by: On the edge May 9 2017, 09:27 PM

QUOTE (Biker1 @ May 9 2017, 07:16 PM) *
Well the French government still seem to have a "post Brexit" interest in some of our industries!!
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/transport/row-as-french-rail-firm-sncf-launches-bid-to-run-london-to-birmingham-hs2-services-a3522966.htmlhttp://www.standard.co.uk/news/transport/row-as-french-rail-firm-sncf-launches-bid-to-run-london-to-birmingham-hs2-services-a3522966.html


Thanks for sharing that Biker, it had passed me by. However it again quite illustrates the path we are on in or out of the EU.

Why would the French nationalised railway want to expand in another Country, spending French public money to do so? For the Remainers amongst us, where is the EU in this? Surely using cheap French public money is anti competitive? Oh, I nearly forgot, the EU supports nationalised industries; EdF being a good example.

In reality the only reason SNCF are doing this is because labour costs are so much cheaper in the UK so they can make a big wodge over here whilst the going is good. Desperately needed because the French pension position is dire - they need the cash.

For us, yeah, we'll get some cheap development cash, but the price our future economy pays is the French management, so the only UK jobs will be the navvie work.

it's not only trains taking us for a ride!

Posted by: On the edge May 9 2017, 09:31 PM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ May 9 2017, 07:56 PM) *
The Monster Rabid Tories are going to win huge. Goodbye JC. Goodbye little Timmy. Up yours the Ginger krankie. The people want Brexit. And they want it now. And they are fed up with all the remoaners. If the remoaners love the EU that much may I suggest they move whilst they can and take EU citizenship whatever that is. Personally I'm English and then British. Some others may feel European. They should go if they want to feel at home. After all Juncker thinks the English language is on the way out anyway. The unelected raddled old freeloading soak.


Then we now need to be putting enormous pressure on Mrs M to get our trade and industry back. Let's see the city start earning real money for the Country.

Posted by: je suis Charlie May 9 2017, 09:39 PM

But, but, Jeremy's gonna win! He said it on BBC today! Calling him a liar?

Posted by: Andy Capp May 10 2017, 06:57 AM

QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ May 9 2017, 10:39 PM) *
But, but, Jeremy's gonna win! He said it on BBC today! Calling him a liar?

I didn't see any reference to Corbyn, only the lying prime minister.

Posted by: je suis Charlie May 10 2017, 08:31 AM

QUOTE (On the edge @ May 9 2017, 10:31 PM) *
Then we now need to be putting enormous pressure on Mrs M to get our trade and industry back. Let's see the city start earning real money for the Country.

Let me spell it out to you, I obviously need to. It won't be 'Mrs M' that we will need to put pressure on when Jeremy is in charge. Now will it! Unless of course he is lying when he said that. But Jeremy wouldn't lie, would he? It's not difficult is it, I know you're a bit challenged but still. Do TRY to keep up with the adults smile.gif

Posted by: On the edge May 10 2017, 10:03 AM

QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ May 10 2017, 09:31 AM) *
Let me spell it out to you, I obviously need to. It won't be 'Mrs M' that we will need to put pressure on when Jeremy is in charge. Now will it! Unless of course he is lying when he said that. But Jeremy wouldn't lie, would he? It's not difficult is it, I know you're a bit challenged but still. Do TRY to keep up with the adults smile.gif


It's OK, just hold on, East Ham at the moment, next stop and you're there. tongue.gif

Posted by: je suis Charlie May 10 2017, 10:32 AM

QUOTE (On the edge @ May 10 2017, 11:03 AM) *
It's OK, just hold on, East Ham at the moment, next stop and you're there. tongue.gif

Yay! Are we there yet? Are we there yet?

Posted by: Biker1 May 11 2017, 09:10 AM

QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Feb 28 2016, 11:01 AM) *
My spin, but it's fun.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3467612/Why-diesel-car-greatest-s-touted-low-carbon-fuel-s-cost-tens-thousands-lives-air-filthier.html


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nr0b9S8JMio tongue.gif

Posted by: Turin Machine May 11 2017, 10:12 AM

Diesel is cleaner now than ever before and is getting cleaner, it also generates less Co2 than petrol, the main benefit however is that government can use it as a cash cow and punish drivers for doing what the government actually told us to do. It's easier to tax motorists than to do something about all the other causes of air pollution all of which would cost more money to address.

Posted by: Andy Capp May 11 2017, 11:55 AM

QUOTE (Turin Machine @ May 11 2017, 11:12 AM) *
Diesel is cleaner now than ever before and is getting cleaner, it also generates less Co2 than petrol, the main benefit however is that government can use it as a cash cow and punish drivers for doing what the government actually told us to do. It's easier to tax motorists than to do something about all the other causes of air pollution all of which would cost more money to address.

Quite. However, we are the 'government'. It is our fault, not theirs, in my view. 'We must' buy cheap stuff and 'we must' fly and drive for pleasure. 'We want' tomatoes all year round, we must have cheap TVs in every room and a decent phone to use while we 'watch' the telly, we MUST eat meat, etc...

Posted by: On the edge May 11 2017, 05:57 PM

QUOTE (Andy Capp @ May 11 2017, 12:55 PM) *
Quite. However, we are the 'government'. It is our fault, not theirs, in my view. 'We must' buy cheap stuff and 'we must' fly and drive for pleasure. 'We want' tomatoes all year round, we must have cheap TVs in every room and a decent phone to use while we 'watch' the telly, we MUST eat meat, etc...


Sadly, after 40 odd years of 'one size fits all' education, we are now conditioned to accept and not question; thus slaves to propoganda. What's good for Tesco etc, is good for us!

Posted by: Andy Capp May 11 2017, 07:27 PM

QUOTE (On the edge @ May 11 2017, 06:57 PM) *
Sadly, after 40 odd years of 'one size fits all' education, we are now conditioned to accept and not question; thus slaves to propoganda. What's good for Tesco etc, is good for us!

Notwithstanding sustainability and a lack of your average Joe taking some responsibility for their part in all this. The western world is arrogant and selfish.

Posted by: On the edge May 11 2017, 08:58 PM

QUOTE (Andy Capp @ May 11 2017, 08:27 PM) *
Notwithstanding sustainability and a lack of your average Joe taking some responsibility for their part in all this. The western world is arrogant and selfish.


Totally! And that may well be our eventual downfall.

Posted by: Turin Machine Jun 14 2017, 06:52 PM

I see that new research has shown airborne particulates are also being pumped out in massive quantities by petrol engines as well. VW are now going to fit filters on all new petrol engines.

Posted by: Biker1 Aug 6 2017, 08:45 AM

Is the electric car revolution as "eco friendly" as we are lead to believe.
Seems there is always an environmental / human cost no matter what form of energy we decide to use up!
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4764208/Child-miners-aged-four-living-****-Earth.html

Posted by: SirWilliam Aug 6 2017, 11:32 AM

QUOTE (On the edge @ May 11 2017, 09:58 PM) *
Totally! And that may well be our eventual downfall.


All "empires" have their day . The Romans, Ottomans , Blackburn Rovers . It is decreed from upon high that complacency is the precursor of decline so accept and get used to eating turnips 3 times a day.

I very much doubt that the electric car is the answer until we develop a generating system that isn't fossil fuel based .

How about a sail on top of your 4x4 ? wink.gif


Posted by: blackdog Aug 6 2017, 01:16 PM

QUOTE (SirWilliam @ Aug 6 2017, 12:32 PM) *
I very much doubt that the electric car is the answer until we develop a generating system that isn't fossil fuel based .


Nuclear, wind, solar, tidal, what more do you want?

Posted by: Turin Machine Aug 6 2017, 02:15 PM

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4764208/amp/Child-miners-aged-four-living-****-Earth.html?utm_referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fzen.yandex.com

Posted by: SirWilliam Aug 6 2017, 03:14 PM

QUOTE (Turin Machine @ Aug 6 2017, 03:15 PM) *
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4764208/amp/Child-miners-aged-four-living-****-Earth.html?utm_referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fzen.yandex.com


I read this earlier and , though it is hard to stomach , if it was not for this work those children would be earning nothing. How many of the moral high grounder brigade will send enough in aid to alleviate their need ? The same criteria applies to the child sex trade , ivory poaching et cetera .

Market force dictates and will continue to do so and the exploitation of those less fortunate will follow . The man who has a penny can buy something costing a penny , the one who has nothing does not have this option.

Posted by: On the edge Aug 6 2017, 04:10 PM

QUOTE (SirWilliam @ Aug 6 2017, 04:14 PM) *
I read this earlier and , though it is hard to stomach , if it was not for this work those children would be earning nothing. How many of the moral high grounder brigade will send enough in aid to alleviate their need ? The same criteria applies to the child sex trade , ivory poaching et cetera .

Market force dictates and will continue to do so and the exploitation of those less fortunate will follow . The man who has a penny can buy something costing a penny , the one who has nothing does not have this option.


But he has other options and some to the penny rich, seemingly quite unpleasant. Be very careful what you wish for!

Posted by: Biker1 Aug 7 2017, 05:01 AM

QUOTE (blackdog @ Aug 6 2017, 02:16 PM) *
Nuclear, wind, solar, tidal, what more do you want?

All of which have an environmental impact.
(Tidal? How many MW do we generate using that?) unsure.gif

Posted by: blackdog Aug 7 2017, 08:54 AM

QUOTE (Biker1 @ Aug 7 2017, 06:01 AM) *
All of which have an environmental impact.
(Tidal? How many MW do we generate using that?) unsure.gif


Everything we do has an environmental impact. If you want to reduce your environmental impact the biggest thing you can do is not have children.

Tidal power is in its infancy, but France has a 240MW plant, Korea a 254MW one; the Swansea project is planned to be 320MW.

And I forgot to mention hydroelectric.




Posted by: Biker1 Aug 7 2017, 01:49 PM

QUOTE (blackdog @ Aug 7 2017, 09:54 AM) *
Everything we do has an environmental impact. If you want to reduce your environmental impact the biggest thing you can do is not have children.

Correct. Over population is the cause of most evil to the planet.
QUOTE (blackdog @ Aug 7 2017, 09:54 AM) *
Tidal power is in its infancy, but France has a 240MW plant, Korea a 254MW one; the Swansea project is planned to be 320MW.

And I forgot to mention hydroelectric.

Interesting thanks.
I should imagine hydro- electric has the least environmental impact?
All you need is a bloody big dam!
Oh and a river.
Oh and a valley!

Posted by: On the edge Aug 7 2017, 02:51 PM

QUOTE (Biker1 @ Aug 7 2017, 02:49 PM) *
Correct. Over population is the cause of most evil to the planet.

Interesting thanks.
I should imagine hydro- electric has the least environmental impact?
All you need is a bloody big dam!
Oh and a river.
Oh and a valley!


Hydro is a great way of shutting up the nimbys who don't like looking at windmills though. Once your house is under a good few feet of water; that problem disappears.

Still, fracking will save us and with luck the chemicals they leech into the water table might at least neutralise the chlorine taste in imported American chicken.....

Posted by: SirWilliam Aug 7 2017, 05:38 PM

QUOTE (Biker1 @ Aug 7 2017, 02:49 PM) *
Correct. Over population is the cause of most evil to the planet.

Interesting thanks.
I should imagine hydro- electric has the least environmental impact?
All you need is a bloody big dam!
Oh and a river.
Oh and a valley!

And a few scattered villages so a few £million can be spent on consultation before re-housing them in a Swansea terrace , ( other terraces are undoubtedly available in equally desirable towns ), but they will be allowed to attend sightseeing days during periods of drought .

But that's ok because we don't live anywhere near. angry.gif

Posted by: On the edge Aug 7 2017, 07:10 PM

I wonder if those great minds looking at the UKs energy future will spot the opportunities round here. The run down of our independent nuclear capability must mean we have several,'nuclear sites' coming ready for new work.

Posted by: blackdog Aug 7 2017, 08:40 PM

Hyrdro can mean big dams and drowned valleys, but it can also mean a small generator in a river. There is a storage facility in Wales that comes under this too - they pump water up into a reservoir when there is low demand on the grid and let if fall through a hydro generator at times of peak demand.

Posted by: On the edge Aug 8 2017, 09:56 AM

QUOTE (blackdog @ Aug 7 2017, 09:40 PM) *
Hyrdro can mean big dams and drowned valleys, but it can also mean a small generator in a river. There is a storage facility in Wales that comes under this too - they pump water up into a reservoir when there is low demand on the grid and let if fall through a hydro generator at times of peak demand.


Small generators exploiting the flow rather than the weight of the water are very effective, much more so when several are installed connected together. A few years back a chap in Hungerford was looking at a promising Archimedes screw made from light materials which needed little groundwork to install. Big water wheels can also be effective and pleasant to watch, 'public art'. Sustainable energy is all about joining up thinking and different technologies; recognising every little helps. Our top down 'only my idea counts' approach demonstrably doesn't work.

Posted by: Turin Machine Aug 8 2017, 10:50 AM

I'm very much in favour of solar, I know that in this poxy climate it's not as effective as it could be but it still a largely unobtrusive means of generating power.

Posted by: SirWilliam Aug 8 2017, 02:28 PM

QUOTE (Turin Machine @ Aug 8 2017, 11:50 AM) *
I'm very much in favour of solar, I know that in this poxy climate it's not as effective as it could be but it still a largely unobtrusive means of generating power.

I remember reading a few years back that if the Sahara was covered completely with solar panels it would generate enough power to feed most of Europe . Now there may well have been an element of journalistic license but to be honest it is doing very little else and would bring employment to the "locals".

Posted by: blackdog Aug 8 2017, 04:08 PM

QUOTE (SirWilliam @ Aug 8 2017, 03:28 PM) *
I remember reading a few years back that if the Sahara was covered completely with solar panels it would generate enough power to feed most of Europe . Now there may well have been an element of journalistic license but to be honest it is doing very little else and would bring employment to the "locals".

If the figures are right it demonstrates the need for more than solar; if 3 million square miles of panels in a desert can't provide enough for Europe you have little chance of running the world from the sun.

And think of the eco impact of manufacturing that many panels!

Posted by: On the edge Aug 8 2017, 05:59 PM

QUOTE (Turin Machine @ Aug 8 2017, 11:50 AM) *
I'm very much in favour of solar, I know that in this poxy climate it's not as effective as it could be but it still a largely unobtrusive means of generating power.


It's not really a matter of personal preference, more what natural features can be utilised. Nothing wrong with any of the methods we could employ. Sure, there are going to be complaints, just as there were when Didcot was deemed necessary in the 1960s.


There is also the flip side of this, energy use reduction. Good design and innovation is also badly needed here. Look at the under insulated gas heated new flats we are shoving up in the town centre. Or the motor industry attempting to electrify by emulating ice vehicle design.

Not surprising really, when our media bemoan and struggle with the fact that big commercial users are paid to automatically switch off things when demand gets high.

Posted by: Simon Kirby Aug 8 2017, 06:46 PM

QUOTE (blackdog @ Aug 8 2017, 05:08 PM) *
And think of the eco impact of manufacturing that many panels!

I've no seen this analysis, but it would be interesting to see the per-kW environmental footprint of solar as against coal, oil, nuclear, wind, wave, and hydro. I may be wrong, but I'd guess that the environmental impact is less than for fossil-fuels generation and nuclear, so all things being equal solar might well be a good strategy if we could also develop better energy storage.

Posted by: Biker1 Aug 8 2017, 07:26 PM

QUOTE (Turin Machine @ Aug 8 2017, 11:50 AM) *
I'm very much in favour of solar, I know that in this poxy climate it's not as effective as it could be but it still a largely unobtrusive means of generating power.

https://energyinstalls.co.uk/the-biggest-solar-energy-farm-in-france-112780-solar-panels/ wink.gif

Posted by: On the edge Aug 8 2017, 07:53 PM

QUOTE (Simon Kirby @ Aug 8 2017, 07:46 PM) *
I've no seen this analysis, but it would be interesting to see the per-kW environmental footprint of solar as against coal, oil, nuclear, wind, wave, and hydro. I may be wrong, but I'd guess that the environmental impact is less than for fossil-fuels generation and nuclear, so all things being equal solar might well be a good strategy if we could also develop better energy storage.


Storage is a key issue but gradually creeping forward. Sodium is still in play and had promise. We could also learn from emerging economies where recycling lead acid batteries, particularly deep cycle ones. Particularly in a domestic setting, this is a method of choice in some areas, ironically to bridge regular power outages from unreliable traditional distribution networks.

Batteries and other small scale storeage such as compressed air is much more effective if it can be shared with your neighbours. In fact one of the real reasons for Smart (on line) Metering.

Posted by: On the edge Aug 8 2017, 07:56 PM

QUOTE (Biker1 @ Aug 8 2017, 08:26 PM) *
https://energyinstalls.co.uk/the-biggest-solar-energy-farm-in-france-112780-solar-panels/ wink.gif


Good design is all. Now, imagine replacing all the failing slate roofs of (say) strings of Victorian housing and public buildings not with tiles and panels, but with panels alone. I suspect few of us would even notice.

Posted by: Biker1 Aug 9 2017, 04:51 AM

QUOTE (On the edge @ Aug 8 2017, 08:56 PM) *
Good design is all. Now, imagine replacing all the failing slate roofs of (say) strings of Victorian housing and public buildings not with tiles and panels, but with panels alone. I suspect few of us would even notice.

Don't get me wrong. I not against generation from "renewable sources".
I am just pointing out that, in my opinion, there is a price to pay, lesser or greater, in some way for all our energy requirements.
Nothing comes for free! dry.gif

Posted by: On the edge Aug 9 2017, 05:55 AM

QUOTE (Biker1 @ Aug 9 2017, 05:51 AM) *
Don't get me wrong. I not against generation from "renewable sources".
I am just pointing out that, in my opinion, there is a price to pay, lesser or greater, in some way for all our energy requirements.
Nothing comes for free! dry.gif


Absolutely; often disregarded truth.

Posted by: Turin Machine Aug 9 2017, 06:26 AM

Nuclear pile in the basement. Gives a lovely pale blue glow through the house. Never need to switch the lights on now. Plus trained mice in a wheel in the shed, bit of cheese on a string, lovely!

Posted by: On the edge Aug 9 2017, 09:52 AM

QUOTE (Turin Machine @ Aug 9 2017, 07:26 AM) *
Nuclear pile in the basement. Gives a lovely pale blue glow through the house. Never need to switch the lights on now. Plus trained mice in a wheel in the shed, bit of cheese on a string, lovely!


Interesting what we are scared of isn't it? Bet you are happy sitting in a moving tin box with petrol sloshing about!

Posted by: SirWilliam Aug 9 2017, 10:06 AM

QUOTE (Turin Machine @ Aug 9 2017, 07:26 AM) *
Nuclear pile in the basement. Gives a lovely pale blue glow through the house. Never need to switch the lights on now. Plus trained mice in a wheel in the shed, bit of cheese on a string, lovely!


Just a thought but if we constructed treadmills at the appropriate points and conscripted the unemployed / pensioners and those children who's parents have benefitted from the tax payer to power them on a rota system, we would have a cost effective answer .

Alternatively we could just use less.


Posted by: On the edge Aug 9 2017, 03:59 PM

QUOTE (SirWilliam @ Aug 9 2017, 11:06 AM) *
Just a thought but if we constructed treadmills at the appropriate points and conscripted the unemployed / pensioners and those children who's parents have benefitted from the tax payer to power them on a rota system, we would have a cost effective answer .

Alternatively we could just use less.


British Gas have just got into big trouble for trying to encourage people to do just that, using the only way many seem to understand.

Not a matter of using less, more about using wisely.

Posted by: Turin Machine Aug 9 2017, 11:04 PM

If early reports are correct, Mazda have cracked the HCCI problem and will be rolling out highly effective and efficient petrol engines in 2018 / 19 if true it will herald a new generation of ice technology!

Posted by: On the edge Aug 10 2017, 05:50 AM

QUOTE (Turin Machine @ Aug 10 2017, 12:04 AM) *
If early reports are correct, Mazda have cracked the HCCI problem and will be rolling out highly effective and efficient petrol engines in 2018 / 19 if true it will herald a new generation of ice technology!


Are they also looking to solve the other minor problem created by the planet running out of cheap easily extracted fuel?

Posted by: Turin Machine Aug 10 2017, 06:22 AM

QUOTE (On the edge @ Aug 10 2017, 05:50 AM) *
Are they also looking to solve the other minor problem created by the planet running out of cheap easily extracted fuel?

A/ not running out in either of our lifetimes.
B/ you mean other than the 30% increase in efficiency?

Posted by: On the edge Aug 10 2017, 09:01 AM

QUOTE (Turin Machine @ Aug 10 2017, 07:22 AM) *
A/ not running out in either of our lifetimes.
B/ you mean other than the 30% increase in efficiency?


Don't get me wrong, it's a worthy attempt to significantly increase efficiency and much needed. Nonetheless, it is in the same league as Mr Welsbach's great invention was to the gas industry.

I appreciate having no concern for future generations doesn't fit easily with our society's present philosophy, but it's worth remembering that if past generations had the same attitudes, you might be spending most of your working day observing the rear end of a horse.

Posted by: Turin Machine Aug 10 2017, 04:17 PM

QUOTE (On the edge @ Aug 10 2017, 09:01 AM) *
Don't get me wrong, it's a worthy attempt to significantly increase efficiency and much needed. Nonetheless, it is in the same league as Mr Welsbach's great invention was to the gas industry.

I appreciate having no concern for future generations doesn't fit easily with our society's present philosophy, but it's worth remembering that if past generations had the same attitudes, you might be spending most of your working day observing the rear end of a horse.

They had the same attitude, which is why all the forests are gone along with the coal mines. If I wanted to look at a horses **** I'd look you up.😂

Posted by: On the edge Aug 10 2017, 04:54 PM

QUOTE (Turin Machine @ Aug 10 2017, 05:17 PM) *
They had the same attitude, which is why all the forests are gone along with the coal mines. If I wanted to look at a horses **** I'd look you up.😂


Something called learning cut in, sadly it seems to have been selective as you well know. tongue.gif

Posted by: Biker1 Aug 10 2017, 04:59 PM

QUOTE (Turin Machine @ Aug 10 2017, 07:22 AM) *
not running out in either of our lifetimes.

Hmmmm.....I'll pass that on to my grand daughter shall I?

QUOTE (Turin Machine @ Aug 10 2017, 05:17 PM) *
They had the same attitude, which is why all the forests are gone along with the coal mines.

There's plenty of coal left in the coal mines. It's just that we're not allowed to burn it any more because we are considering future generations! tongue.gif

Posted by: blackdog Aug 10 2017, 05:04 PM

QUOTE (Biker1 @ Aug 10 2017, 05:59 PM) *
There's plenty of coal left in the coal mines. It's just that we're not allowed to burn it any more because we are considering future generations! tongue.gif


Future generations will thank us for not using all the coal and leaving a bit for them. And the current generation should thank us that they don't have to work down the pit and can work in a nice call centre or supermarket instead.

Posted by: Turin Machine Aug 10 2017, 05:29 PM

QUOTE (Biker1 @ Aug 10 2017, 04:59 PM) *
Hmmmm.....I'll pass that on to my grand daughter shall I?


There's plenty of coal left in the coal mines. It's just that we're not allowed to burn it any more because we are considering future generations! tongue.gif

Except all the mines are flooded and derelict.

Posted by: SirWilliam Aug 10 2017, 05:50 PM

The problem as far as I can see is that any reduction per capita is offset by the number of additional users .
Are we not on playing catch up as opposed to finding a real answer to the problem ? Every citizen is entitled to drive a car / heat their house / cook their food etc but what hope is there if efficiency is lost to an increasing population ?

We are lucky in this Country inasmuch that most of the inhabitants are already user/contributor to the system , but the third world is growing and their consumption is only going in one direction .

Posted by: Turin Machine Aug 10 2017, 06:41 PM

I saw this on BBC and thought, je suis strikes again?

The Maldives: Political turmoil threatens the 'island paradise' - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-40827633

Posted by: On the edge Aug 10 2017, 07:19 PM

QUOTE (SirWilliam @ Aug 10 2017, 06:50 PM) *
The problem as far as I can see is that any reduction per capita is offset by the number of additional users .
Are we not on playing catch up as opposed to finding a real answer to the problem ? Every citizen is entitled to drive a car / heat their house / cook their food etc but what hope is there if efficiency is lost to an increasing population ?

We are lucky in this Country inasmuch that most of the inhabitants are already user/contributor to the system , but the third world is growing and their consumption is only going in one direction .


Everyone entitled?

It's rather ironic that population growth dips once an economy has developed. The faster we get the whole World 'developed' the better. Population would then start taking a dip.

Posted by: Biker1 Aug 11 2017, 06:13 AM

QUOTE (SirWilliam @ Aug 10 2017, 06:50 PM) *
Every citizen thinks they are entitled to drive a car / heat their house / cook their food etc but what hope is there if efficiency is lost to an increasing population ?

Fixed that a bit but you have hit the nail cleanly on the head there Sir W!

Posted by: blackdog Aug 11 2017, 09:41 AM

QUOTE (Turin Machine @ Aug 10 2017, 07:41 PM) *
I saw this on BBC and thought, je suis strikes again?


"I am" strikes again? Will?

Posted by: SirWilliam Aug 11 2017, 10:41 AM

QUOTE (Biker1 @ Aug 11 2017, 07:13 AM) *
Fixed that a bit but you have hit the nail cleanly on the head there Sir W!


My feeling is that as long as we live in a market force environment anyone with the means is entitled to spend it on whatever they choose . If we start dictating who has the right to a use of the diminishing resources the outcome will be anarchy on a global scale.
History has shown us that Countries will go to war over resources , whether that is water oil or food , and the most sensible way of maintaining the status quo is to share it around.

Little doubt something along these lines will manifest itself before long especially if global population is not controlled but we all know that is not going to happen.

Posted by: On the edge Aug 11 2017, 01:21 PM

QUOTE (SirWilliam @ Aug 11 2017, 11:41 AM) *
My feeling is that as long as we live in a market force environment anyone with the means is entitled to spend it on whatever they choose . If we start dictating who has the right to a use of the diminishing resources the outcome will be anarchy on a global scale.
History has shown us that Countries will go to war over resources , whether that is water oil or food , and the most sensible way of maintaining the status quo is to share it around.

Little doubt something along these lines will manifest itself before long especially if global population is not controlled but we all know that is not going to happen.


Aaah, so whoever has the most money wins and can do exactly as they please; where is the difference?

Forgetting climate change or even diminishing reserves, being particularly selfish about it, we still gave a problem. Coal apart, we have few other natural resources left, very little money and as is becoming increasingly plain, few saleable skills. Probably as good a reason as any why we shouldn't use our residual legacy on trying to develop 'free' sustainable energy.

Posted by: Simon Kirby Aug 11 2017, 06:51 PM

QUOTE (SirWilliam @ Aug 11 2017, 11:41 AM) *
My feeling is that as long as we live in a market force environment anyone with the means is entitled to spend it on whatever they choose . If we start dictating who has the right to a use of the diminishing resources the outcome will be anarchy on a global scale.
History has shown us that Countries will go to war over resources , whether that is water oil or food , and the most sensible way of maintaining the status quo is to share it around.

Little doubt something along these lines will manifest itself before long especially if global population is not controlled but we all know that is not going to happen.

Sorry, but are you arguing that you can only have access to life's essentials if you are wealthy? Societies have certainly gone up in flames when the privileged believed that - "Qu'ils mangent de la brioche", etc, etc.

Posted by: Turin Machine Aug 11 2017, 07:11 PM

To the victor, the spoils.

Posted by: Andy Capp Aug 11 2017, 07:33 PM

There was an interesting article on TV last about the folley of adherence to escalating GDP.

Posted by: SirWilliam Aug 12 2017, 12:19 PM

QUOTE (Simon Kirby @ Aug 11 2017, 07:51 PM) *
Sorry, but are you arguing that you can only have access to life's essentials if you are wealthy? Societies have certainly gone up in flames when the privileged believed that - "Qu'ils mangent de la brioche", etc, etc.


??? Must be the dementia kicking in because I couldn't see any reference to me advocating such a proposal , more a case of stating the obvious . rolleyes.gif

Posted by: je suis Charlie Sep 29 2017, 10:37 AM

"London Mayor Sadiq Khan is seeking new powers to ban wood burning in the most polluted areas of the capital.The mayor has written to the Environment Secretary Michael Gove asking for greater powers to tackle air pollution not caused by traffic.Mr Khan wants to introduce a network of "zero-emission zones" where the burning of wood or coal is completely prohibited.He also wants tougher controls on the sale of wood-burning stoves."

And not before time, give the cardigan wearing libtards something to bay about!

Posted by: Andy Capp Dec 27 2017, 11:11 AM

An interesting article: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/resources/idt-sh/how_toxic_is_your_car_exhaust

Posted by: SirWilliam Dec 27 2017, 06:42 PM

QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Dec 27 2017, 11:11 AM) *
An interesting article: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/resources/idt-sh/how_toxic_is_your_car_exhaust


Must admit I got half way through reading this unmitigating drivel before returning to the well deceased turkey sandwich . The question is somewhat rhetorical in that the answer is of only academic interest . I can not see the average motorist upgrading his car just because it happens to be belching out more pollutant than a spanking new model . ALL internal combustion engines pollute , as do external and electric to a degree , but only a complete sandal wearing idiot would advocate the removal of all vehicles without first having a viable alternative .

Posted by: Andy Capp Dec 27 2017, 08:31 PM

QUOTE (SirWilliam @ Dec 27 2017, 06:42 PM) *
Must admit I got half way through reading this unmitigating drivel before returning to the well deceased turkey sandwich . The question is somewhat rhetorical in that the answer is of only academic interest . I can not see the average motorist upgrading his car just because it happens to be belching out more pollutant than a spanking new model . ALL internal combustion engines pollute , as do external and electric to a degree , but only a complete sandal wearing idiot would advocate the removal of all vehicles without first having a viable alternative .

If you would have been capable of reading the whole thing and understand it, you may have posted a more relevant point.

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Dec 27 2017, 08:50 PM

QUOTE (SirWilliam @ Dec 27 2017, 06:42 PM) *
Must admit I got half way through reading this unmitigating drivel before returning to the well deceased turkey sandwich . The question is somewhat rhetorical in that the answer is of only academic interest . I can not see the average motorist upgrading his car just because it happens to be belching out more pollutant than a spanking new model . ALL internal combustion engines pollute , as do external and electric to a degree , but only a complete sandal wearing idiot would advocate the removal of all vehicles without first having a viable alternative .


Yeah. Give up plastic. Thats the "flavour" of the month. Leave them cars alone. I cant cope with anymore people on my train commute!!

Posted by: Andy Capp Dec 28 2017, 12:41 AM

A big message in the article is that the way the emissions are monitored is hugely flawed. The message in this “drivel” is that the people we pay to keep us safer are failing to do their job.

Posted by: SirWilliam Dec 28 2017, 09:12 AM

Good to see hostilities have commenced after the festive break . My argument stands in that the article was long winded and irrelevant to the the headline as more inches were devoted to the French holiday than the subject matter . I am not doubting the figure of £3-10 K to test a car's emissions / mpg, just questioning the wisdom of doing it when it solves nothing .

Posted by: Andy Capp Dec 28 2017, 12:25 PM

QUOTE (SirWilliam @ Dec 28 2017, 09:12 AM) *
Good to see hostilities have commenced after the festive break . My argument stands in that the article was long winded and irrelevant to the the headline as more inches were devoted to the French holiday than the subject matter . I am not doubting the figure of £3-10 K to test a car's emissions / mpg, just questioning the wisdom of doing it when it solves nothing .

Your argument was incoherent and remains so.


Happy new year. tongue.gif

Posted by: Biker1 Dec 28 2017, 02:48 PM

All cars chuck out pollutants.
If it bothers you that much then cut down on your driving or don't do it at all.

Posted by: Andy Capp Dec 28 2017, 03:19 PM

QUOTE (Biker1 @ Dec 28 2017, 02:48 PM) *
All cars chuck out pollutants.
If it bothers you that much then cut down on your driving or don't do it at all.

Whether something is a pollutant isn’t the substantive point being made.

Posted by: je suis Charlie Jan 18 2018, 11:08 AM

"Microwaves emit 7.7 million tonnes of carbon dioxide per year in the EU, which is equivalent to the annual emissions of 6.8 million cars, says University of Manchester study"
Scientifically proven! laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif

Posted by: Andy Capp Jan 18 2018, 11:24 PM

QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ Jan 18 2018, 11:08 AM) *
"Microwaves emit 7.7 million tonnes of carbon dioxide per year in the EU, which is equivalent to the annual emissions of 6.8 million cars, says University of Manchester study"
Scientifically proven! laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif

Put into context, 10 years ago there were ~250 million cars on the road in the EU, so 6.8 million is a small percentage of the whole.

Posted by: Turin Machine Jan 18 2018, 11:26 PM

QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Jan 18 2018, 11:24 PM) *
Put into context, 10 years ago there were 250 million cars on the road, so 6.8 million is a small percentage of the whole.

Nah, can't argue with science, fact innit.

Posted by: Turin Machine Jan 18 2018, 11:44 PM

This'll make you smile, Volvo XC90 hybrid, how much for a new battery? 2k? 4k?, Can't be more than that shuuurly! Oh dear, 22k! That's twenty two thousand pounds. And they are only warranted from new for 7 years. Hybrid cars? Don't think I'll be buying one soon. laugh.gif

Posted by: SirWilliam Jan 19 2018, 09:25 AM

QUOTE (Turin Machine @ Jan 18 2018, 11:44 PM) *
This'll make you smile, Volvo XC90 hybrid, how much for a new battery? 2k? 4k?, Can't be more than that shuuurly! Oh dear, 22k! That's twenty two thousand pounds. And they are only warranted from new for 7 years. Hybrid cars? Don't think I'll be buying one soon. laugh.gif


Smile? State of horror more like. One wonders if the salesman, ( sorry person ), empathised this on the test run. With government(s) pushing the electric agenda a sceptic may conclude that it is designed to price Mr and Mrs Average off the roads.

Posted by: je suis Charlie Jan 19 2018, 03:49 PM

QUOTE (Turin Machine @ Jan 18 2018, 11:44 PM) *
This'll make you smile, Volvo XC90 hybrid, how much for a new battery? 2k? 4k?, Can't be more than that shuuurly! Oh dear, 22k! That's twenty two thousand pounds. And they are only warranted from new for 7 years. Hybrid cars? Don't think I'll be buying one soon. laugh.gif

It's why I didn't go for the XC90. And, inbuilt unreliability. From Volvo as well. Sigh!

Posted by: je suis Charlie Feb 4 2018, 10:05 AM

And guess what's comrade Jeremy is chauffered around in? That's right, after calling for a total ban on killer diesel he's in a ? Yeah, guessed it, a diesel. Class act.

Posted by: Turin Machine Feb 4 2018, 12:28 PM

QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ Feb 4 2018, 10:05 AM) *
And guess what's comrade Jeremy is chauffered around in? That's right, after calling for a total ban on killer diesel he's in a ? Yeah, guessed it, a diesel. Class act.

laugh.gif Mr 'do as I say, not as I do' Corbyn! laugh.gif

Posted by: Strafin Feb 7 2018, 12:09 AM

QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ Feb 4 2018, 10:05 AM) *
And guess what's comrade Jeremy is chauffered around in? That's right, after calling for a total ban on killer diesel he's in a ? Yeah, guessed it, a diesel. Class act.

As leader of the opposition he is allocated a government funded car and driver. They fund it and I'm pretty sure they pick it.

Posted by: Biker1 Feb 7 2018, 08:55 AM

QUOTE (Strafin @ Feb 7 2018, 02:09 AM) *
As leader of the opposition he is allocated a government funded car and driver. They fund it and I'm pretty sure they pick it.

Government hypocrisy knows no bounds.
After convincing us that diesel cars are the scourge of the earth they cancel electrification of............
Great western main line from Cardiff to Swansea.
Oxford to Didcot
Thames Valley branch lines
Midland Main Line from Bedford to Sheffield
Trans-Pennine route from Leeds to Manchester.
All in favour of using DIESEL instead! rolleyes.gif tongue.gif

Posted by: On the edge Feb 8 2018, 08:40 AM

QUOTE (Biker1 @ Feb 7 2018, 08:55 AM) *
Government hypocrisy knows no bounds.
After convincing us that diesel cars are the scourge of the earth they cancel electrification of............
Great western main line from Cardiff to Swansea.
Oxford to Didcot
Thames Valley branch lines
Midland Main Line from Bedford to Sheffield
Trans-Pennine route from Leeds to Manchester.
All in favour of using DIESEL instead! rolleyes.gif tongue.gif


I'm saying nothing!

Do you know if 'Thames Valley branch lines' includes Reading to Newbury? Wouldn't be surprised if some comic came up with the idea of stopping electrification at Woolhampton!

Posted by: Biker1 Feb 8 2018, 08:42 AM

QUOTE (On the edge @ Feb 8 2018, 10:40 AM) *
I'm saying nothing!

Do you know if 'Thames Valley branch lines' includes Reading to Newbury? Wouldn't be surprised if some comic came up with the idea of stopping electrification at Woolhampton!

laugh.gif laugh.gif
No, it means.............
West Ealing - Greenford
Slough - Windsor
Maidenhead - Marlow
Twyford - Henley.

Posted by: Andy Capp Feb 8 2018, 09:11 AM

Not to mention we will be traveling on diesel bombs, a la Paddington Rail Disaster.

Posted by: On the edge Feb 9 2018, 08:59 AM

QUOTE (Biker1 @ Feb 8 2018, 08:42 AM) *
laugh.gif laugh.gif
No, it means.............
West Ealing - Greenford
Slough - Windsor
Maidenhead - Marlow
Twyford - Henley.


Phew! Thanks for that.

Posted by: Turin Machine Mar 19 2018, 06:08 PM

NEWS


SAN FRANCISCO, March 19 (Reuters) - A woman was killed by an Uber self-driving sport utility vehicle in Arizona, police said on Monday, and the ride-hailing company said it had suspended its autonomous vehicle program across the United States and Canada.

The accident in the Phoenix suburb of Tempe marked the first fatality from a self-driving vehicle, which are being tested around the globe, and could derail efforts to fast-track the introduction of the new technology.

The vehicle was in autonomous mode with an operator behind the wheel at the time of the accident, which occurred overnight Sunday to Monday, Tempe police said.

"The vehicle was traveling northbound ... when a female walking outside of the crosswalk crossed the road from west to east when she was struck by the Uber vehicle," police said in a statement.

So not as safe as some people would have you believe huh.

Posted by: Mr Brown Mar 19 2018, 09:51 PM

QUOTE (Turin Machine @ Mar 19 2018, 06:08 PM) *
NEWS


SAN FRANCISCO, March 19 (Reuters) - A woman was killed by an Uber self-driving sport utility vehicle in Arizona, police said on Monday, and the ride-hailing company said it had suspended its autonomous vehicle program across the United States and Canada.

The accident in the Phoenix suburb of Tempe marked the first fatality from a self-driving vehicle, which are being tested around the globe, and could derail efforts to fast-track the introduction of the new technology.

The vehicle was in autonomous mode with an operator behind the wheel at the time of the accident, which occurred overnight Sunday to Monday, Tempe police said.

"The vehicle was traveling northbound ... when a female walking outside of the crosswalk crossed the road from west to east when she was struck by the Uber vehicle," police said in a statement.

So not as safe as some people would have you believe huh.


So then, that's Muslims, Jews, Socialists, Russians, Europeans, Cyclists, uber drivers, Council employees, railway staffs, social housing tenants, all out to get the local people in Newbury! The World beyond Thatcham is pretty scary huh.

Posted by: Turin Machine Mar 19 2018, 11:08 PM

But, on a slightly saner note, VW post record sales and record profits, so it didn't do them much harm! ohmy.gif

Posted by: Turin Machine Mar 19 2018, 11:08 PM

QUOTE (Mr Brown @ Mar 19 2018, 09:51 PM) *
So then, that's Muslims, Jews, Socialists, Russians, Europeans, Cyclists, uber drivers, Council employees, railway staffs, social housing tenants, all out to get the local people in Newbury! The World beyond Thatcham is pretty scary huh.

If you say so! laugh.gif

Posted by: Mr Brown Mar 20 2018, 07:47 AM

QUOTE (Turin Machine @ Mar 19 2018, 11:08 PM) *
But, on a slightly saner note, VW post record sales and record profits, so it didn't do them much harm! ohmy.gif


VW manually controlled cars, with all the others, kill and maim far, far more every day than any 'driverless vehicle' on a mile for mile basis and driverless vehicles are still in pre production testing. Presumably you'd refuse a sea cruise on the basis of what happened to the Titanic.

Posted by: Andy Capp Mar 20 2018, 08:04 AM

QUOTE (Turin Machine @ Mar 19 2018, 11:08 PM) *
But, on a slightly saner note, VW post record sales and record profits, so it didn't do them much harm! ohmy.gif

They even had time to feed toxic fumes to monkeys I see and even to their close relatives: humans.

Posted by: Turin Machine Mar 20 2018, 11:11 AM

QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Mar 20 2018, 08:04 AM) *
They even had time to feed toxic fumes to monkeys I see and even to their close relatives: humans.

Yup! Isn't science wonderful laugh.gif all those people who said, getting rid of my VW, Nasty, dirty things apparently walked back into the showrooms and bought, VW's. You have to smile, you really do. laugh.gif :lol

Meanwhile UK law has now drawn a line in the sand regarding the vexed question of who's to blame if you're driving an autonomous car and it injures another person. Turns out you will need to be in control, is; hands on the wheel and in a position to take immediate control, the car must also have had any modifications done whatsoever and be fully and up to the moment updated. So some people's vision of sitting in the back reading the paper isn't going to happen anyday soon.
I for one say good.:

Posted by: SirWilliam Mar 20 2018, 12:33 PM

QUOTE (Turin Machine @ Mar 20 2018, 11:11 AM) *
Yup! Isn't science wonderful laugh.gif all those people who said, getting rid of my VW, Nasty, dirty things apparently walked back into the showrooms and bought, VW's. You have to smile, you really do. laugh.gif :lol

Meanwhile UK law has now drawn a line in the sand regarding the vexed question of who's to blame if you're driving an autonomous car and it injures another person. Turns out you will need to be in control, is; hands on the wheel and in a position to take immediate control, the car must also have had any modifications done whatsoever and be fully and up to the moment updated. So some people's vision of sitting in the back reading the paper isn't going to happen anyday soon.
I for one say good.:


So why have a self driving vehicle if it still needs a driver? I appreciate the desire to have an array of sensors that stop me hitting the neighbours wall or running their cat over, but a self driving car that I can not use is a total waste of development resources.

Posted by: je suis Charlie Mar 21 2018, 01:10 PM

Investigators currently in BMW offices, software emissions cheats.

Posted by: Andy Capp Mar 21 2018, 01:23 PM

QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ Mar 21 2018, 01:10 PM) *
Investigators currently in BMW offices, software emissions cheats.

About to see BMW’s trading figures go through the roof then! Mind you, a couple of Dubs are sat on my drive most days, one of them may have contributed to the Dubs trading figures a while back!

Posted by: Turin Machine Mar 22 2018, 10:50 PM

QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Mar 21 2018, 01:23 PM) *
About to see BMW’s trading figures go through the roof then! Mind you, a couple of Dubs are sat on my drive most days, one of them may have contributed to the Dubs trading figures a while back!

So, a dubber then? What are they?

Posted by: Andy Capp Mar 22 2018, 11:22 PM

QUOTE (Turin Machine @ Mar 22 2018, 10:50 PM) *
So, a dubber then? What are they?

Sorry, nothing sexy, one’s a Mk 6 whose DPF failed (bit steep) and one’s an Up! which is a tidy car. I prefer old skool stuff, I’d have an early Golf GTi like a shot! But of course, such is the value of classics, I think anyone would!

Posted by: Turin Machine Mar 22 2018, 11:35 PM

QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Mar 22 2018, 11:22 PM) *
Sorry, nothing sexy, one’s a Mk 6 whose DPF failed (bit steep) and one’s an Up! which is a tidy car. I prefer old skool stuff, I’d have an early Golf GTi like a shot! But of course, such is the value of classics, I think anyone would!

Mk six is tidy enough, worth getting the filter done I would have thought. Get an indie to do it, not too expensive. Shame to let it just sit there. It's funny how they keep putting design clues in the new ones that hark back to the original. I keep wondering about getting a 3.2 just to hoon around on s Sunday pm.

Posted by: Andy Capp Mar 23 2018, 07:57 AM

The DPF’s done now, wish it was a warranty item though! 😀

Posted by: Turin Machine Mar 23 2018, 12:35 PM

QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Mar 23 2018, 07:57 AM) *
The DPF’s done now, wish it was a warranty item though! 😀

How many miles on the clock.?

Have you had active regeneration done?

Posted by: Andy Capp Mar 23 2018, 06:50 PM

QUOTE (Turin Machine @ Mar 23 2018, 12:35 PM) *
How many miles on the clock.?

Have you had active regeneration done?

Around 60k, but not sure. The car is my littlun’s who said the coil came on other day so went for a drive to Reading and back; should’ve got a petrol really. Don’t do the miles to get the benefit of a diesel.

Posted by: Turin Machine Mar 23 2018, 07:15 PM

QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Mar 23 2018, 06:50 PM) *
Around 60k, but not sure. The car is my littlun’s who said the coil came on other day so went for a drive to Reading and back; should’ve got a petrol really. Don’t do the miles to get the benefit of a diesel.

First thing, try putting it on the M4, put it in fifth and run it for at least half an hour, without slowing or stopping. This will give it a chance to to an active regeneration, that might do it. It's important to keep the revs at around two thousand two hundred. That's the key.

Posted by: Andy Capp Mar 23 2018, 07:48 PM

Thanks, I’ll pass it on.

Posted by: Turin Machine Mar 23 2018, 08:40 PM

Worth trying, if it doesn't work a forced regen can be made but it's entirely possible is not the for but rather an sensor malfunction one side or the other of the dpf. These and the mass air are known to be made of chocolate on these cars. Good luck with it.

Posted by: Andy Capp Mar 23 2018, 08:49 PM

Yes, apparently, the car never gave a warning until there was a workshop error message. We were told that we needed a new filter, after paying £80 to have the diagnostics. We needed the EGR valve replacing after a sensor failed. This was at 64.5k. Repair was £1,400 lol!

Posted by: Turin Machine Mar 23 2018, 10:02 PM

QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Mar 23 2018, 08:49 PM) *
Yes, apparently, the car never gave a warning until there was a workshop error message. We were told that we needed a new filter, after paying £80 to have the diagnostics. We needed the EGR valve replacing after a sensor failed. This was at 64.5k. Repair was £1,400 lol!

WOW! Just wow! You have four choices, first is to get a good indie to give a second opinion (I recommend Sharps) , or replace the filter and sell the car, or get a dpf delete, or sell it on to someone who will get a dpf delete.

Posted by: Biker1 Mar 24 2018, 07:56 AM

Red line it in each gear a few times.
That should clear it out!! biggrin.gif

EDIT : Well maybe not in top unless you have access to a disused aerodrome! tongue.gif

Posted by: Andy Capp Mar 24 2018, 10:59 AM

The frustrating thing is that it was just before we got a recall to make the engine run lumpy, had it happened after that, we’d got it done for free.

Posted by: Andy Capp Mar 24 2018, 11:05 AM

QUOTE (Turin Machine @ Mar 19 2018, 06:08 PM) *
NEWS


SAN FRANCISCO, March 19 (Reuters) - A woman was killed by an Uber self-driving sport utility vehicle in Arizona, police said on Monday, and the ride-hailing company said it had suspended its autonomous vehicle program across the United States and Canada.

The accident in the Phoenix suburb of Tempe marked the first fatality from a self-driving vehicle, which are being tested around the globe, and could derail efforts to fast-track the introduction of the new technology.

The vehicle was in autonomous mode with an operator behind the wheel at the time of the accident, which occurred overnight Sunday to Monday, Tempe police said.

"The vehicle was traveling northbound ... when a female walking outside of the crosswalk crossed the road from west to east when she was struck by the Uber vehicle," police said in a statement.

So not as safe as some people would have you believe huh.

The question should be: was the accident preventable; would the average human have avoided the pedestrian.

https://www.geekwire.com/2018/police-release-video-ubers-self-driving-car-hitting-pedestrian/



Posted by: Turin Machine Mar 24 2018, 11:25 AM

QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Mar 24 2018, 11:05 AM) *
The question should be: was the accident preventable; would the average human have avoided the pedestrian.

https://www.geekwire.com/2018/police-release-video-ubers-self-driving-car-hitting-pedestrian/

We will of course never know, but it may serve as a sobering effect to those who seem to think that self driving cars are the answer. I'll find a better video in a minute, showing semi autonomous.

Posted by: Turin Machine Mar 24 2018, 11:29 AM

Here 'tis,. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-ESMIvzpwU

Tres amusing.

Posted by: Mr Brown Mar 24 2018, 12:32 PM

QUOTE (Turin Machine @ Mar 24 2018, 11:25 AM) *
We will of course never know, but it may serve as a sobering effect to those who seem to think that self driving cars are the answer. I'll find a better video in a minute, showing semi autonomous.


Thanks Prof Lardner; didn't realise you were still about. Still, we've at least managed to discover that people don't die just because train exceeds 30mph.

My regards to Mr Ludd. tongue.gif

Posted by: je suis Charlie Mar 24 2018, 01:06 PM

QUOTE (Turin Machine @ Mar 24 2018, 11:29 AM) *
Here 'tis,. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-ESMIvzpwU

Tres amusing.

That was indeed funny! My father in law turns pale whenever I turn mine on!

Posted by: Turin Machine Apr 1 2018, 10:09 AM

Old VW's

Volkswagen's car 'graveyard' in California - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-43592885

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