What does good look like?, Real local government Options

[On the edge]

A Parliamentary by election at a time of economic strife and the turnout is less than 30 per cent. For local government elections its often less. Yet there seems to be massive dissatisfaction and not just on this forum!! Our present system is broke and the only official suggestions for a fix is more of the same. This is a debate which is far bigger than the political establishment to lead, so what do we actually want?

Here's a very small starter for 10. Just one minor component. Technology is available to just about all these days, so there seems no reason why we couldn't have a continual 'public view / will' monitor. Something like this forum but where there was no anonymity (with severe penalties for reprisal) and as well as a textual element, a regular referendum style voting mechanism. Lots of flaws, but simply added to get a discussion going.

[Cognosco]

A Parliamentary by election at a time of economic strife and the turnout is less than 30 per cent. For local government elections its often less. Yet there seems to be massive dissatisfaction and not just on this forum!! Our present system is broke and the only official suggestions for a fix is more of the same. This is a debate which is far bigger than the political establishment to lead, so what do we actually want?

Here's a very small starter for 10. Just one minor component. Technology is available to just about all these days, so there seems no reason why we couldn't have a continual 'public view / will' monitor. Something like this forum but where there was no anonymity (with severe penalties for reprisal) and as well as a textual element, a regular referendum style voting mechanism. Lots of flaws, but simply added to get a discussion going.

Problem with this is they get the participation they require for legitimacy but get the results they don't!
It's like their consultations they put hours of work into what question they are going to ask to ensure the outcome can only be the result they want to achieve.
Sample:

Do you want the the council to recycle more.........result fortnightly collections of general waste which most did not want. Saving the council and it's contractors a fair wedge but the cost to ratepayers the same. Also allows the council to tick the correct box to give the impression they are going green. Sorted!

[On the edge]

I suppose the key thing is trying to make sure 'the community' suits and does what most of the people in the vicinity want, the way they want it. I suppose question 1 is where are the boundaries? Let's face it, we are told most don't want a post code lottery hence services are really designed centrally. Schools, waste, roads etc, etc. all a council does is deliver. No real strategic input at all. So with today's model, I'd want to see the Council as no more than a local government agency - with four or five local service complaints advisors, who could be elected. What else us there for them to do?

[Ruwan Uduwerage-...]

Dear Forum Members,

There is one sure way of changing a 'broken system' and influencing how local government operates, and that is (I appreciate that I am a broken record on this) to get involved.

I for one would love to see greater diversity of political thought within all council chambers, and the mainstream Political Parties should not fear this, for it would imply that those voting for a given Party would actually be doing so because in the main they support its policies, rather than the option was 'either or'.

Ruwan Uduwerage-Perera

Newbury Town Council - Councillor for Victoria Ward & Deputy Leader
Mobile: +44 7886 799 256

[On the edge]

That's fine. BUT exactly how does one 'get involved' and not just helping canvass or filling out direct debit firms?

[Cognosco]

I suppose the key thing is trying to make sure 'the community' suits and does what most of the people in the vicinity want, the way they want it. I suppose question 1 is where are the boundaries? Let's face it, we are told most don't want a post code lottery hence services are really designed centrally. Schools, waste, roads etc, etc. all a council does is deliver. No real strategic input at all. So with today's model, I'd want to see the Council as no more than a local government agency - with four or five local service complaints advisors, who could be elected. What else us there for them to do?

Yes but what would the Mr Busybody types do with their time? You know, the types that know what is best for us? The types that ensure we do not get it wrong? The types that ensure the few who know what is best for Britain stay in charge and ensure they reap the just rewards for their knowledge?
Just what would Newbury end up like without this knowledge.......just a town that people would prefer to avoid...........Ah well!

[Andy Capp]

Perhaps a lack of engagement and a lack of turn out is a sign of things being generally OK?

[Cognosco]

Perhaps a lack of engagement and a lack of turn out is a sign of things being generally OK?

Or nothing will change no matter what we do especially in these busy times trying to earn a crust?

[On the edge]

Perhaps a lack of engagement and a lack of turn out is a sign of things being generally OK?

Perhaps it is and we are the odd ones out. Has been known before, Marx reckoned that religion was the opium of the people, now the people have much easier access to such drugs, you are probably right!

[On the edge]

Or nothing will change no matter what we do especially in these busy times trying to earn a crust?

Think you are right! Why should it, as President Johnson used to say, when you have them by the balls hearts and minds follow...!

[motormad]

That's fine. BUT exactly how does one 'get involved' and not just helping canvass or filling out direct debit firms?

That's absolutely an issue.

I work weekdays, most weekends I am also busy. I would love to come and participate in Council meetings but more rather ones where council members are there to listen to, note and action concerns of residents. I don't to come along, sit and watch them argue amongst themselves.

Likewise, Ruwan, I have asked this before and had no response - Where, when, what (is happening) in regards to the meetings you keep mentioning...

[Simon Kirby]

Perhaps a lack of engagement and a lack of turn out is a sign of things being generally OK?

Well, I think it's right to a degree. People aren't necessarily content, but their discontent isn't strong enough for them to storm the Bastille. Of course it would be better that states didn't govern their people so unjustly that in the end they did storm the barricades, but that does seem to be in the nature of things.

[Cognosco]

Well, I think it's right to a degree. People aren't necessarily content, but their discontent isn't strong enough for them to storm the Bastille. Of course it would be better that states didn't govern their people so unjustly that in the end they did storm the barricades, but that does seem to be in the nature of things.

Well you can come to our meetings but don't expect to ask questions and even more don't expect answers.......transparency at work!

[Biker1]

I have said it before but surely in this day and age we should have a better system than a pencil and piece of paper for voting.
I would have thought one of the most effective ways of increasing "turn out" is to bring voting into the 21st Century!

[Simon Kirby]

I would love to come and participate in Council meetings but more rather ones where council members are there to listen to, note and action concerns of residents.

Yeah, that'd be great. It doesn't work like that in Newbury though. In Newbury you do as you're told. In principle you're free to turn up and ask questions at town council meeting, but that works like the promise of the Bank of England to give you £10's worth of gold if you turn up with a ten pound note and demand it.

The town council is kind of like a club for pro-establishment reactionary busybodies and everything they do is focussed on their own power and importance. They could for example allow their allotment tenants to vote on changes to their own site rules in the way any other sports or social club would do at its AGM, but it's all about the power for the town council so they wouldn't possibly devolve that authority. Of course you could always turn up at a meeting and ask the council if it would consult its tenants about changes to the rules, but they'll just ignore you.

If you want to change something your only real option is to join either the Conservatives or Lib Dems (it doesn't matter which, they're both the same) and get elected, and then you quietly badger behind the scenes for what it is you want. Don't go asking for democratization of stuff like that though as you'll just weird them out, you need to ask for stuff for yourself.

Getting nominated to stand by your party is straight forward enough unless you are a complete nut-case, but even then you'll probably be fine. There aren't actually many people interested in local politics - you virtually never see any of the new candidates involved in anything until the election comes, and if they don't get elected you never see them again. Basically if you're willing to stand you'll get the nomination. The only difficulty will be if you believe in anything. Asking for stuff for yourself is fine, that's expected really, but believing in stuff is dangerous and you'll come over all threatening. Best not to talk politics really if you want your party's nomination.

[user23]

I have said it before but surely in this day and age we should have a better system than a pencil and piece of paper for voting.
I would have thought one of the most effective ways of increasing "turn out" is to bring voting into the 21st Century!

I think the start of this is already happening, with electronic voter registration.

[blackdog]

Lack of involvement in politics must have something to do with a disillusionment with politicians, but surely it is also a reflection of a level of contentment - if people were seriously fed up with politics they'd get more involved, not less.

[On the edge]

I think the start of this is already happening, with electronic voter registration.

That's really 21st century stuff User! Wow, an advance on 1984. Makes sense, check the register against the other data the government holds. Gives pin point accuracy, check against NHS records and you'll be able to see if it's even worth me voting! Actually, have they thought of using say Acorn and some of the other data and derive my voting intention? Save me even turning up.

My regards to Big Brother.

[On the edge]

Lack of involvement in politics must have something to do with a disillusionment with politicians, but surely it is also a reflection of a level of contentment - if people were seriously fed up with politics they'd get more involved, not less.

Interesting one that. A 'no response' answer means content. One of the reasons I simply spoil my ballot paper and recommend others to do the same.

[MontyPython]

Lack of involvement in politics must have something to do with a disillusionment with politicians, but surely it is also a reflection of a level of contentment - if people were seriously fed up with politics they'd get more involved, not less.

No - if they thought it would make a difference they would speak up- The majority I speak to are fed up but don't even bother with sites like this. Why waste valuable time on those that will not change (politicians and officials).

Time for a "none of the above" on all voting forms - then we can make our true opinions heard!