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> Second referendum
Turin Machine
post Jun 15 2019, 09:36 PM
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Now this is what I call an 'expert';

"Noel Gallagher has hit out at Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn in a colourful interview where he despaired at the state of modern British politics.
The rock star, who previously said he would rather reform Oasis than see “lunatic” Jeremy Corbyn elected, now branded him a “f***ing student debater, f***ing captain fishy craggy old f***ing donkey, f*** off”. He also described shadow home secretary Diane Abbott as “the face of f***ing buffoonery”.
“They talk pipe-smoking communist nonsense, do you know what I mean? I think the role of any politician in the world is to be forward thinking, and modern, and contemporary - looking forward,” he told the Manchester Evening News.


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newres
post Jun 16 2019, 05:37 AM
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QUOTE (Mr Brown @ Jun 15 2019, 09:14 PM) *
....and what do you think was the Oxbridge degree of choice for politicians and civil servants up until comparitively recently? Again, what is your definition of an expert?

Politicians aren’t generally experts at subjects. They use experts to advise. His degree in Classics doesn’t make him an expert in business, economics, health, social services, defence, law and order or immigration. You’re being a silly billy to quote another politician.
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newres
post Jun 16 2019, 07:04 AM
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QUOTE (Turin Machine @ Jun 15 2019, 10:36 PM) *
Now this is what I call an 'expert';

"Noel Gallagher has hit out at Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn in a colourful interview where he despaired at the state of modern British politics.
The rock star, who previously said he would rather reform Oasis than see “lunatic” Jeremy Corbyn elected, now branded him a “f***ing student debater, f***ing captain fishy craggy old f***ing donkey, f*** off”. He also described shadow home secretary Diane Abbott as “the face of f***ing buffoonery”.
“They talk pipe-smoking communist nonsense, do you know what I mean? I think the role of any politician in the world is to be forward thinking, and modern, and contemporary - looking forward,” he told the Manchester Evening News.

I don't like Noel Gallagher but I agree with the thrust of what he's saying. A stopped clock is right twice a day.
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Mr Brown
post Jun 16 2019, 07:13 AM
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QUOTE (newres @ Jun 16 2019, 06:37 AM) *
Politicians aren’t generally experts at subjects. They use experts to advise. His degree in Classics doesn’t make him an expert in business, economics, health, social services, defence, law and order or immigration. You’re being a silly billy to quote another politician.


Experts know a great deal about technical matters, which in simple terms is typified by the difference between an arts or science degree. Of course, politicians are not generalists, they'll take expert advice, but like other sensible people, will weigh that against contrary expert advice and other factors. Finally, again, I'd also argue that you insult politicians by saying they are aren't generally experts at subjects - one of the strengths of the Cimmons is having politicians who had (and often still follow) a career elsewhere. Ironically, your stance well illustrates the danger of career politicians who know no other field of endeavour.
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newres
post Jun 16 2019, 07:16 AM
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Slightly stating the obvious perhaps, but worth pointing out. It’s a complete impasse. There has to be a referendum or general election. BJ cannot deliver a new deal or no deal. No wonder he won’t make himself available.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/j...re_iOSApp_Other

My hope is that he’s going to get in and admit the only way forward is a second vote on the existing deal.
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newres
post Jun 16 2019, 07:25 AM
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QUOTE (Mr Brown @ Jun 16 2019, 08:13 AM) *
Experts know a great deal about technical matters, which in simple terms is typified by the difference between an arts or science degree. Of course, politicians are not generalists, they'll take expert advice, but like other sensible people, will weigh that against contrary expert advice and other factors. Finally, again, I'd also argue that you insult politicians by saying they are aren't generally experts at subjects - one of the strengths of the Cimmons is having politicians who had (and often still follow) a career elsewhere. Ironically, your stance well illustrates the danger of career politicians who know no other field of endeavour.

Sorry, but that's incoherent.
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Turin Machine
post Jun 16 2019, 08:33 AM
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QUOTE (newres @ Jun 16 2019, 08:16 AM) *
Slightly stating the obvious perhaps, but worth pointing out. It’s a complete impasse. There has to be a referendum or general election. BJ cannot deliver a new deal or no deal. No wonder he won’t make himself available.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/j...re_iOSApp_Other

My hope is that he’s going to get in and admit the only way forward is a second vote on the existing deal.

The Guardian 😆😆😆


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Biker1
post Jun 16 2019, 08:34 AM
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QUOTE (newres @ Jun 15 2019, 10:37 AM) *
Even the IRA have higher standards than the Brexit MPs. They refuse to attend HofC and don't take their salaries.

One word........
Unbelievable!!!
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Mr Brown
post Jun 16 2019, 08:35 AM
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QUOTE (newres @ Jun 16 2019, 08:25 AM) *
Sorry, but that's incoherent.


Rubbish. My nine year old nephew fully understands this. It's information which doesn't fit your view of the World so, of course, you don't comprehend. Ironic, proves a point about your attitude others have mentioned. laugh.gif
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newres
post Jun 16 2019, 08:39 AM
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QUOTE (Mr Brown @ Jun 16 2019, 09:35 AM) *
Rubbish. My nine year old nephew fully understands this. It's information which doesn't fit your view of the World so, of course, you don't comprehend. Ironic, proves a point about your attitude others have mentioned. laugh.gif

It’s muddled. On the one hand you’re saying someone with a Classics MA is an expert in everything and then you’re saying they’re not.
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newres
post Jun 16 2019, 08:40 AM
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QUOTE (Turin Machine @ Jun 16 2019, 09:33 AM) *
The Guardian 😆😆😆

Well here’s your chance to critique the analysis. What’s wrong with it? I don’t expect an answer from you btw.
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Turin Machine
post Jun 16 2019, 09:16 AM
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QUOTE (newres @ Jun 16 2019, 09:40 AM) *
Well here’s your chance to critique the analysis. What’s wrong with it? I don’t expect an answer from you btw.

It's just, The Guardian 😆😆😆.

QUOTE (newres @ Jun 15 2019, 06:56 PM) *
Personally I’d rather be guided by the experts.


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Mr Brown
post Jun 16 2019, 10:21 AM
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QUOTE (newres @ Jun 16 2019, 09:39 AM) *
It’s muddled. On the one hand you’re saying someone with a Classics MA is an expert in everything and then you’re saying they’re not.


'A generalist doesn't need to be a subject matter expert but can be expert in the art of governance.'
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Turin Machine
post Jun 16 2019, 10:47 AM
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QUOTE (newres @ Jun 16 2019, 08:25 AM) *
Sorry, but that's incoherent.

So, what was it that you couldn't understand, oh, wait, as you were. Newres 😂😂😂


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newres
post Jun 16 2019, 03:15 PM
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QUOTE (Turin Machine @ Jun 16 2019, 09:33 AM) *
The Guardian 😆😆😆

Some long words. Sorry. Here's a few snippets of what Tory MPs are saying:

David Gauke, the justice secretary, said: “Boris is saying that he will definitely leave the EU by 31 October, but he is refusing to say how he will do this if parliament takes steps to stop a no-deal Brexit. Will he respond by suspending parliament? Will he seek a general election? This lack of clarity is helping him maintain a broad base of support for now but it won’t survive the autumn. This is why his position on Brexit needs to be tested thoroughly now.”

Alistair Burt, the former foreign office minister, said: “The risk of a serious confrontation in the party seems to be growing – the only way to avoid this is to get a deal. Jeremy Hunt is the best bet to open up the impasse, otherwise … we seem to be heading for a disastrous general election, with all the risks.”

Kenneth Clarke: “If some idiot was sailing into a no-deal Brexit I’d decide politics had finally gone mad and vote against it.” Clarke also said that if it came down to a choice between no deal and a second referendum, he would abandon his lifelong opposition to referendums and back a second public vote.


‘If there’s no other way you’ve got to bring the government down’

“If the choice eventually became no deal or a second referendum, then they’d try to win my support – I’d stop abstaining and I’d vote for it.”

Former universities minister Sam Gyimah said: “There is no sweet spot between what the [European Research Group] sees as the ideal resolution and what is right for the party and country. You either please them and imperil the government, country and party, or you pivot away from them and your own position is at risk. This is going to come to a head pretty quickly.

“For all the differences, this is Theresa May’s script. He will try to say he believes in the project and wants to deliver Brexit, but it is parliament that is standing in the way. This is what Theresa May attempted.”

The point is that there's no way forward in our democracy without a vote of some kind. Unless BJ is announces a second referendum he's finished. I'm guessing he wants power more than Brexit. I think he'll offer a referendum.
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TallDarkAndHands...
post Jun 16 2019, 03:28 PM
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QUOTE (newres @ Jun 16 2019, 04:15 PM) *
Some long words. Sorry. Here's a few snippets of what Tory MPs are saying:

David Gauke, the justice secretary, said: “Boris is saying that he will definitely leave the EU by 31 October, but he is refusing to say how he will do this if parliament takes steps to stop a no-deal Brexit. Will he respond by suspending parliament? Will he seek a general election? This lack of clarity is helping him maintain a broad base of support for now but it won’t survive the autumn. This is why his position on Brexit needs to be tested thoroughly now.”

Alistair Burt, the former foreign office minister, said: “The risk of a serious confrontation in the party seems to be growing – the only way to avoid this is to get a deal. Jeremy Hunt is the best bet to open up the impasse, otherwise … we seem to be heading for a disastrous general election, with all the risks.”

Kenneth Clarke: “If some idiot was sailing into a no-deal Brexit I’d decide politics had finally gone mad and vote against it.” Clarke also said that if it came down to a choice between no deal and a second referendum, he would abandon his lifelong opposition to referendums and back a second public vote.


‘If there’s no other way you’ve got to bring the government down’

“If the choice eventually became no deal or a second referendum, then they’d try to win my support – I’d stop abstaining and I’d vote for it.”

Former universities minister Sam Gyimah said: “There is no sweet spot between what the [European Research Group] sees as the ideal resolution and what is right for the party and country. You either please them and imperil the government, country and party, or you pivot away from them and your own position is at risk. This is going to come to a head pretty quickly.

“For all the differences, this is Theresa May’s script. He will try to say he believes in the project and wants to deliver Brexit, but it is parliament that is standing in the way. This is what Theresa May attempted.”

The point is that there's no way forward in our democracy without a vote of some kind. Unless BJ is announces a second referendum he's finished. I'm guessing he wants power more than Brexit. I think he'll offer a referendum.


He'll offer a GE and he will link up with Farage.
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newres
post Jun 16 2019, 04:56 PM
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QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Jun 16 2019, 04:28 PM) *
He'll offer a GE and he will link up with Farage.

Your naivety is sweet. He won’t split the Tory party. An electoral pact with Farage would do that.
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TallDarkAndHands...
post Jun 16 2019, 06:16 PM
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QUOTE (newres @ Jun 16 2019, 05:56 PM) *
Your naivety is sweet. He won’t split the Tory party. An electoral pact with Farage would do that.

We will see.
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newres
post Jun 16 2019, 07:00 PM
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Leader’s debate thoughts?

Raab slaughtered and made to look stupid. Javid is getting a bit boring playing the race card. Gove unnerved me the way he kept sniffing and eating his cheeks. Hunt a bit of a nobody. Rory Stewart is the man. Honest and decent.
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TallDarkAndHands...
post Jun 16 2019, 08:12 PM
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QUOTE (newres @ Jun 16 2019, 08:00 PM) *
Leader’s debate thoughts?

Raab slaughtered and made to look stupid. Javid is getting a bit boring playing the race card. Gove unnerved me the way he kept sniffing and eating his cheeks. Hunt a bit of a nobody. Rory Stewart is the man. Honest and decent.

Didn't watch it. C4 is shockingly biased.
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