Is the current policing model in England & Wales broken? Options

[Ruwan Uduwerage-...]

It would appear from yesterdays (260710) Home Secretary comments in the media that she believes that she believes that the system of policing within England and Wales is broken.

We all, I am sure, wish the service to be more accountable, effective, efficient and professional so should not the service itself and the public be requesting the establishment of a Royal Commission into Policing in the Twenty-First Century, and whether it is 'fit for purpose'?

If the debate is left purely in the hands of politicians and other people who have no understanding of policing and the wider criminal justice system then we may end up with a service that is ill equipped to deal with both contemporary and future issues, but is rather in the image of the fictional world of 'Dixon of Dock Green'.

As a former police officer and researcher in policing for over a quarter of a century, I am only too aware of the need for greater accountability and public participation, but the country as a whole deserves to have a thorough review undertaken rather than whimsical ideas just plucked from the air.

[Bloggo]

It would appear from yesterdays (260710) Home Secretary comments in the media that she believes that she believes that the system of policing within England and Wales is broken.

We all, I am sure, wish the service to be more accountable, effective, efficient and professional so should not the service itself and the public be requesting the establishment of a Royal Commission into Policing in the Twenty-First Century, and whether it is 'fit for purpose'?

If the debate is left purely in the hands of politicians and other people who have no understanding of policing and the wider criminal justice system then we may end up with a service that is ill equipped to deal with both contemporary and future issues, but is rather in the image of the fictional world of 'Dixon of Dock Green'.

As a former police officer and researcher in policing for over a quarter of a century, I am only too aware of the need for greater accountability and public participation, but the country as a whole deserves to have a thorough review undertaken rather than whimsical ideas just plucked from the air.

What you say and suggest here may well be correct and a Royal Commission audit of present day policing may be appropriate however I and I suspect many other people will not understand the complex interactions between Government, Police and independant agencies authorised to explore and make recomendations regarding future police procedures.
What I would hope is that having recently voted for a government that clearly stated that it would improve the police's performance and accountability then they would move towards that goal.
The latest statements from the government suggest that that may be happening.
There are many aspects of police work that would seem to be being done extremely well particularly the areas where more serious and complicated crime is being dealt with and this should be applauded.
Where improvement clearly needs to be seen is the areas of low level crime, anti-social behaviour and the police's ability to respond to the public's concerns in a timely fashion.
My own experience is that the public are letting the police know when incidents are occuring however they seem to be failing to respond with any urgency and fail to communicate back to the public what they have done and what the result is or may be. This has the effect of the public saying that there is little point in contacting the police as they won't respond or keep you in touch with developements. It appears to be a one way information route and this must change in order to instill confidence in the public that the police are working for them.
It is also appalling that there now seems to be areas of London and perhaps other inner city areas that ordinary people cannot walk through without fear of serious injury. Effectively no-go areas. In amodern society this cannot be acceptable.

[Hugh Saskin]

It is also appalling that there now seems to be areas of London and perhaps other inner city areas that ordinary people cannot walk through without fear of serious injury.

Yeah, like Ian Tomlinson, poor s0d. RIP
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-10777287

If the inquest jury brings in a verdict of unlawful killing, is anyone likely to be going down? Don't hold your breath...

[HeatherW]

It is. All you have to do is look around you. Drunks, anti social behaviour, bottles lying around etc. Then there is the crime.

[Andy Capp]

And the perfidious Tories look as though are going to go light on offenders!

[Hugh Saskin]

It is. All you have to do is look around you. Drunks, anti social behaviour, bottles lying around etc. Then there is the crime.

Sounds like your gaff is where it all happens, H!

[On the edge]

It would appear from yesterdays (260710) Home Secretary comments in the media that she believes that she believes that the system of policing within England and Wales is broken.

We all, I am sure, wish the service to be more accountable, effective, efficient and professional so should not the service itself and the public be requesting the establishment of a Royal Commission into Policing in the Twenty-First Century, and whether it is 'fit for purpose'?

If the debate is left purely in the hands of politicians and other people who have no understanding of policing and the wider criminal justice system then we may end up with a service that is ill equipped to deal with both contemporary and future issues, but is rather in the image of the fictional world of 'Dixon of Dock Green'.

As a former police officer and researcher in policing for over a quarter of a century, I am only too aware of the need for greater accountability and public participation, but the country as a whole deserves to have a thorough review undertaken rather than whimsical ideas just plucked from the air.

Quite - but then she's up against the outdated and ill judged thinking of Justice Minister Ken Clarke (what a surprise!!) It seems we are in for more 'restorative justice' having a 'firm' chat with the local yobbos - so they won't do it again. Just like I did yesterday to a couple of feral youths who tried to take me off my bike. Just run off screaming abuse. Yet we are now going to be expected to volunteer to help these ill educated badly behaved 'young people'. I'd be more than willing to help - but not in the way our pink Justice Minister suspects! Perhaps I'm getting too old, but I seem to remember my dad telling me about 'restorative conversations' - one between a nice guy called Neville and another chap called Adolf - didn't work then either.

[HeatherW]

We need changes to our police force. All we have to do is look around Newbury to see nothing is happening. At one time Newbury was a nice place. Drug and drinking free. If it was around then it was well hidden. When you walk young kids through the town this is the impression they get. No wonder people want to move out of Newbury.

[On the edge]

We need changes to our police force. All we have to do is look around Newbury to see nothing is happening. At one time Newbury was a nice place. Drug and drinking free. If it was around then it was well hidden. When you walk young kids through the town this is the impression they get. No wonder people want to move out of Newbury.

Sadly I have to agree. A few years ago there were some local initiatives that looked promising. Some things got done - but as is only too common - fizzled out and we are back to square one. The root of the problem is never addressed - the failure of the criminal justice system. That fails to provide a deterrent and fails to motivate those charged with bringing offenders to justice. Unless that is sorted and properly anything else will fail.

[Darren]

We need changes to our police force. All we have to do is look around Newbury to see nothing is happening. At one time Newbury was a nice place. Drug and drinking free. If it was around then it was well hidden. When you walk young kids through the town this is the impression they get. No wonder people want to move out of Newbury.

But where too?

You go to any reasonably sized town in the UK and you will find the same problems. It's not a uniquely Newbury problem.

[The BQE]

...our pink Justice Minister...

Forgive me, but what does this mean?

EDIT: Ah, do you mean leftist? Sorry, haven't seen that usage in ages!

[user23]

You go to any reasonably sized town in the UK and you will find the same problems. It's not a uniquely Newbury problem.

I'd like to know where's this town of similar size that people are moving to that doesn't suffer these problems.

Personally I've never heard of anyone moving out of Newbury because of a few drunks in town and it's a problem that has existed for centuries in pretty much every town across the country.

[Bloggo]

Sadly I have to agree. A few years ago there were some local initiatives that looked promising. Some things got done - but as is only too common - fizzled out and we are back to square one. The root of the problem is never addressed - the failure of the criminal justice system. That fails to provide a deterrent and fails to motivate those charged with bringing offenders to justice. Unless that is sorted and properly anything else will fail.

Spot on, couldn't agree more.
Those who commit crime and especially low level crime have nothing to be scared about.

[Biker1]

Sadly I have to agree. A few years ago there were some local initiatives that looked promising. Some things got done - but as is only too common - fizzled out and we are back to square one. The root of the problem is never addressed - the failure of the criminal justice system. That fails to provide a deterrent and fails to motivate those charged with bringing offenders to justice. Unless that is sorted and properly anything else will fail.

Like Bloggo I agree with you but in addition to this there is an underlying problem with society today where respect for each other, our property and the environment has dissolved in many cases.

Unless this can be restored through the education and parenting system then harsh punishment will not be the complete answer.

A tall order I know, and it will take some time, but one which I think must be addressed

[Andy Capp]

Like Bloggo I agree with you but in addition to this there is an underlying problem with society today where respect for each other, our property and the environment has dissolved in many cases. Unless this can be restored through the education and parenting system then harsh punishment will not be the complete answer.

I agree, but how to do this effectively will be challenge, although I don't think things are as bad as that. I think we are talking about a minority of people.

[Bloggo]

I agree, but how to do this effectively will be challenge, although I don't think things are as bad as that. I think we are talking about a minority of people.

Yes, it will be a challenge but one that must be met and of course you are correct that it is a minority of people.
However this minority has to be dealt with.
There are now 3 generations (maybe 4) that have never worked. Each one is influenced by the one before resulting in a growing culture of ignorance and dependency on the state and or an understanding that crime is an acceptable alternative to work.
They have received no guidance from their parents on how to behave and see no need for education. They demonstrate a lack or respect for themselves or anyone else.
This circle has to be broken. This government has to show that the world of work and employment is the way forward and that the workshy, lazy and criminal elements will not be tolerated anymore.
These people need firm and fair guidance to give them hope, respect and ambition.

[Jayjay]

Attended the Battle of the Proms on Saturday and saw Newbury at its best. Lots of patriotism, from various nationalities, flag waiving and a feeling of being proud to be in Britain and enjoy the best it has to offer. Guess the majority of people were local and it restored my faith and love of Newbury and its people.

[HeatherW]

Sadly I have to agree. A few years ago there were some local initiatives that looked promising. Some things got done - but as is only too common - fizzled out and we are back to square one. The root of the problem is never addressed - the failure of the criminal justice system. That fails to provide a deterrent and fails to motivate those charged with bringing offenders to justice. Unless that is sorted and properly anything else will fail.

I agree. Those initiatives sound good on paper but they have no end plan. In other words if it goes wrong then how do they deal with it/ Where i live our community got together but we found we had not support from the authorities. Yes, they wanted to help us, but to a point, actually solving the problems then riding us of them they did not want to know. We were back to square one. Without support from the authorities like the council, police etc you end up having talking shop. Some members enjoyed that, which makes you wonder if the police etc had another agenda (just to pacify us).

[HJD]

Yes, it will be a challenge but one that must be met and of course you are correct that it is a minority of people.
However this minority has to be dealt with.
There are now 3 generations (maybe 4) that have never worked. Each one is influenced by the one before resulting in a growing culture of ignorance and dependency on the state and or an understanding that crime is an acceptable alternative to work.
They have received no guidance from their parents on how to behave and see no need for education. They demonstrate a lack or respect for themselves or anyone else.
This circle has to be broken. This government has to show that the world of work and employment is the way forward and that the workshy, lazy and criminal elements will not be tolerated anymore.
These people need firm and fair guidance to give them hope, respect and ambition.

Once again 'Bloggo' your post makes a lot of sense.

[HeatherW]

But where too?

You go to any reasonably sized town in the UK and you will find the same problems. It's not a uniquely Newbury problem.

I agree. That is why you need strong laws, strong law courts and a strong police force. So when people do step out of line they know the consequences of their actions. Either that or the lunatics really have taken over the asylum. Then what? What happens to the decent and honest people?