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> Petrol prices in Newbury
Jonno
post Aug 15 2013, 02:01 PM
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I realise this has been discussed before but, for the last week, we have reached an even higher level of pricing inequality! It now costs 6p per litre more to buy petrol in Newbury than it does in Swindon. As I do about 20,000 miles per year that is £180 extra for the privilege of buying it at home. Possibly we should have a town-wide collection to help Asda fund a local store with a petrol station. I'd throw in £180........
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Ron
post Aug 15 2013, 03:05 PM
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At the moment there is about 4p/litre difference between Tesco and Sainsburys
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Simon Kirby
post Aug 15 2013, 04:13 PM
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QUOTE (Jonno @ Aug 15 2013, 03:01 PM) *
I realise this has been discussed before but, for the last week, we have reached an even higher level of pricing inequality! It now costs 6p per litre more to buy petrol in Newbury than it does in Swindon. As I do about 20,000 miles per year that is £180 extra for the privilege of buying it at home. Possibly we should have a town-wide collection to help Asda fund a local store with a petrol station. I'd throw in £180........

I see two options.

1. The Free Market.

In a free market the price garages charge is determined by the market. Garages can make more profit by charging more, but they risk losing sales as motorists shop elsewhere. The cheapest price for a litre of unleaded in Newbury is currently 137.9 pence, and the most expensive is 147.9 pence, so shopping around in Newbury can save the prudent motorist 10 pence per litre, and if you commute to local towns you might also be able to save more by filling up there, so for example in Swindon the cheapest price for a litre of unleaded is currently 131.7 pence, and the most expensive is 139.9 pence. Buying fuel at the right Swindon garage can save you another 6.2 pence per litre as against the best Newbury price, but you do need to do your homework because the worst price in Swindon will cost you 2 pence a litre more than the best price in Newbury.

Under a free market then prices will vary by region - you can currently save 6.2 pence per litre by shopping in Swindon - but actually prices vary much more locally - you can save 10 pence per litre just by shopping at the right local garage.

2. State-Regulated Market

In a state-regulated market garages have to charge what the state tells them to charge. The state bureaucracy will set the price, but without a free market it will have to decide for itself how much that price should be. This is a difficult job, and the state bureaucracy will be large and expensive to administer, and that cost will also be borne by the motorist. Fuel suppliers will put pressure on the state bureaucracy to set the price as high as possible, and as with other state bureaucracies the price will be set to please the suppliers and not to please the motorist.

I vote free market.


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Andy Capp
post Aug 15 2013, 05:01 PM
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I vote ASDA.
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gel
post Aug 15 2013, 05:52 PM
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QUOTE (Simon Kirby @ Aug 15 2013, 05:13 PM) *
I see two options.

1. The Free Market.

In a free market the price garages charge is determined by the market. Garages can make more profit by charging more, but they risk losing sales as motorists shop elsewhere. The cheapest price for a litre of unleaded in Newbury is currently 137.9 pence, and the most expensive is 147.9 pence, so shopping around in Newbury can save the prudent motorist 10 pence per litre, and if you commute to local towns you might also be able to save more by filling up there, so for example in Swindon the cheapest price for a litre of unleaded is currently 131.7 pence, and the most expensive is 139.9 pence. Buying fuel at the right Swindon garage can save you another 6.2 pence per litre as against the best Newbury price, but you do need to do your homework because the worst price in Swindon will cost you 2 pence a litre more than the best price in Newbury.

Under a free market then prices will vary by region - you can currently save 6.2 pence per litre by shopping in Swindon - but actually prices vary much more locally - you can save 10 pence per litre just by shopping at the right local garage.

2. State-Regulated Market

In a state-regulated market garages have to charge what the state tells them to charge. The state bureaucracy will set the price, but without a free market it will have to decide for itself how much that price should be. This is a difficult job, and the state bureaucracy will be large and expensive to administer, and that cost will also be borne by the motorist. Fuel suppliers will put pressure on the state bureaucracy to set the price as high as possible, and as with other state bureaucracies the price will be set to please the suppliers and not to please the motorist.


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and as reported before Sainsburys Wantage where there are very few petrol outlets is 1p cheaper than Newbury. Strange market forces apply there.

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user23
post Aug 15 2013, 06:14 PM
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Simon's right, this is down to market forces and also Newbury being one of the wealthier and more desirable places to live in the country.

If you want to pay less for petrol, buy less or move somewhere worse off.
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Simon Kirby
post Aug 15 2013, 06:22 PM
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QUOTE (gel @ Aug 15 2013, 06:52 PM) *
and as reported before Sainsburys Wantage where there are very few petrol outlets is 1p cheaper than Newbury. Strange market forces apply there.


I don't know about strange, I just see market forces. Sainsbury's doesn't just sell you fuel, it wants you to shop there too, so you can't just look at Wantage in isolation, you need to look at it in context, sat in the middle of Swindon, Newbury, and Oxford, where a lot of the inhabitants will work and a good many might choose to shop as well.


QUOTE (gel @ Aug 15 2013, 06:52 PM) *
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Dude, that's a lot of hash.


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Simon Kirby
post Aug 15 2013, 06:27 PM
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QUOTE (user23 @ Aug 15 2013, 07:14 PM) *
If you want to pay less for petrol, buy less or move somewhere worse off.

Indeed, we're talking about 10p on the price of a litre, and that's the same as finding an extra 3-4 mpg on the economy of a typical family saloon. So if you're price-conscious (and no reason why you shouldn't be) then driving more slowly and accelerating and braking less harshly will more than save you that, and if you're not already driving something that returns 70 mpg and costs nothing in road fund licence, then that's something to look at too.


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On the edge
post Aug 15 2013, 06:44 PM
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QUOTE (gel @ Aug 15 2013, 06:52 PM) *
and as reported before Sainsburys Wantage where there are very few petrol outlets is 1p cheaper than Newbury. Strange market forces apply there.


Market forces don't mean that the price will fall or increase automatically. A pure 'Market' has two participants, buyers and sellers - sellers can do what they like with their prices and buyers can choose not to give their custom! There are many reasons why Sainsburys might want to offer a low price in Wantage.

Nevertheless, the answer is in your hands, don't like Sainsburys prices / tactics or whatever, simply stop using them. Better still tell them exactly why.


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Andy Capp
post Aug 15 2013, 07:28 PM
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QUOTE (user23 @ Aug 15 2013, 07:14 PM) *
Simon's right, this is down to market forces and also Newbury being one of the wealthier and more desirable places to live in the country. If you want to pay less for fuel, buy less or move somewhere worse off.
QUOTE (Simon Kirby @ Aug 15 2013, 07:27 PM) *
Indeed, we're talking about 10p on the price of a litre, and that's the same as finding an extra 3-4 mpg on the economy of a typical family saloon. So if you're price-conscious (and no reason why you shouldn't be) then driving more slowly and accelerating and braking less harshly will more than save you that, and if you're not already driving something that returns 70 mpg and costs nothing in road fund licence, then that's something to look at too.

None of this disguises supermarkets in Newbury taking the piss and I am also sure we are aware of the measures that can be taken to avoid Newbury's rip-off fuel prices, but the dumbness in Simon's suggestion is that one could make those savings as well as saving if petrol was cheaper.

The OP isn't about how one could save on petrol, but to complain about being ripped off by the price of fuel in Newbury.

PS - public services have to pay these rip-off prices too, thus raising the cost of public services in the area.
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user23
post Aug 15 2013, 08:12 PM
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QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Aug 15 2013, 08:28 PM) *
The OP isn't about how one could save on petrol, but to complain about being ripped off by the price of fuel in Newbury.
We're under no obligation to buy from them, nor is their any hidden cost.
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Andy Capp
post Aug 15 2013, 08:31 PM
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QUOTE (user23 @ Aug 15 2013, 09:12 PM) *
We're under no obligation to buy from them, nor is their any hidden cost.

We are obliged to buy from them unless we want to pay even more buy travelling further to get cheaper petrol. I wonder if the extra cost in supplying the fuel compared to the other towns is due to extra cost of being located in Newbury.
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user23
post Aug 15 2013, 08:48 PM
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QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Aug 15 2013, 09:31 PM) *
We are obliged to buy from them...
Let me stop you there.

No one is forcing you to buy from them. It was your choice to buy a car and yours to buy one that runs on petrol or diesel.

If this is now proving too expensive perhaps you should reconsider your choices or move to a less desirable location where fuel costs less?
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Andy Capp
post Aug 15 2013, 08:53 PM
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QUOTE (user23 @ Aug 15 2013, 09:48 PM) *
Let me stop you there.

Too late; I've already posted! rolleyes.gif

QUOTE (user23 @ Aug 15 2013, 09:48 PM) *
No one is forcing you to buy from them. It was your choice to buy a car and yours to buy one that runs on petrol or diesel. If this is now proving too expensive because of the location you choose to live in perhaps you should reconsider your choices?

Let me stop you there: I am not forced to buy from Newbury, but unfortunately, cheaper alternatives are uneconomically distanced. I therefore have little choice but to accept Newbury's rip-off prices; well in actual fact: its pretty much West Berkshire rip-off prices. So in practical terms, I am forced to buy their fuel. Also, the cost of other vehicles that are not run on fossil fuel are not affordable by me. Third, where did I say I cannot afford the rip-off prices of Newbury? Forth, where did I say I chose to live here?

Thank you. rolleyes.gif

Now back to the point, I wonder if it costs petrol stations more to sell fuel than it does in neighbouring towns? dry.gif It seems to me, the reason is we don't have a supermarket chain that is prepared to aggressively compete with their fuel prices.
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user23
post Aug 15 2013, 09:20 PM
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QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Aug 15 2013, 09:53 PM) *
Let me stop you there: I am not forced to buy from Newbury, but unfortunately, cheaper alternatives are uneconomically distanced. I therefore have little choice but to accept Newbury's rip-off prices; well in actual fact: its pretty much West Berkshire rip-off prices. So in practical terms, I am forced to buy their fuel. Also, the cost of other vehicles that are not run on fossil fuel are not affordable by me. Second, where did I say I cannot afford the rip-off prices of Newbury? Third, where did I say I chose to live here?
Like I said, no one's forcing you to own a car or buy fuel.

Why are petrol prices so high? Because despite all your protestations you choose to buy it at that price.

The question is, what's the highest price you'd pay before you change your choice of transport?
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On the edge
post Aug 15 2013, 09:21 PM
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That last point is a very good one. Again an Adam Smith; the holders of the unearned increment, landlords. Wonder what the rents are in Newbury and so indeed the business rate. Landlords can severely damage commerce - just an instance, it took Wetherspoons far to long to open in Newbury.

Some direct action may be an answer. A boycott would doubtless be ineffective, because visitors and businesses would not want to join, but something like a concerted carefully check the pump for faults and spills then 'go slow' at the 'till, - simply to significantly reduce the take per hour.

Has Richard Garvey had any feedback from his Tesco contacts?





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Andy Capp
post Aug 15 2013, 09:43 PM
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QUOTE (user23 @ Aug 15 2013, 10:20 PM) *
Like I said, no one's forcing you to own a car or buy fuel.

That isn't what you originally said which includes the word 'forced', but never mind, as what is true is that I am compelled to buy in Newbury which in practical terms means the same thing as forced.

QUOTE (user23 @ Aug 15 2013, 10:20 PM) *
Why are petrol prices so high? Because despite all your protestations you choose to buy it at that price.

I very much doubt my buying fuel in Newbury makes any difference in what the garages charge. What would make a big difference in rip-off Newbury is if we had a fuel discounter. This was even admitted by a supermarket manager recently.

QUOTE (user23 @ Aug 15 2013, 10:20 PM) *
The question is, what's the highest price you'd pay before you change your choice of transport?

The cost of fuel accounts for about 5% of my net income, so the price doesn't affect me greatly, however, the cost of a train to do similar journey would be much more. About twice as much more in fact and would significantly increase my journey time to work, door to door.

No, my concern for the price of fuel in rip-off Newbury is more about how it affects others. Like I said, a number of public services are ripped off by the fuel outlets in Newbury and I am sure that adversely affect their costs too, which eventually will impact on others.

Take West Berkshire Council's fuel bill, or the Crime Commissioners bill. They would save about 6% of their fuel bill if Newbury wasn't being taken to the cleaners. So not only do we pay more than elsewhere, maybe we have to may more for our services because of it too.
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motormad
post Aug 15 2013, 09:56 PM
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QUOTE (Simon Kirby @ Aug 15 2013, 07:27 PM) *
Indeed, we're talking about 10p on the price of a litre, and that's the same as finding an extra 3-4 mpg on the economy of a typical family saloon. So if you're price-conscious (and no reason why you shouldn't be) then driving more slowly and accelerating and braking less harshly will more than save you that, and if you're not already driving something that returns 70 mpg and costs nothing in road fund licence, then that's something to look at too.


I'll stick with my big turbocharged beast thank you laugh.gif
Eco cars.. really.
although saying that I am looking at buying a second car (diesel) so I can take my daily off the road for modification without worrying about breaking it.

QUOTE (user23 @ Aug 15 2013, 07:14 PM) *
Simon's right, this is down to market forces and also Newbury being one of the wealthier and more desirable places to live in the country.

If you want to pay less for petrol, buy less or move somewhere worse off.



laugh.gif

Desirable places to live
You really do work for the council don't you, what a joffa! laugh.gif laugh.gif Newbury is not desirable in the same way that I am sexy and charming.


Posts like this come up regularly and yes it's annoying but what can you do about it? I put Vpower or BP Ultimate in regardless so cheap fuel is never going to matter to me.
MPG in your car can vary so much depending on even wind direction on a long motorway drive that you're never going to really be effected much more than the case of a quid per tank of fuel on average.

In a way I agree with Simon - buy less, buy elsewhere or move.


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Andy Capp
post Aug 16 2013, 12:53 AM
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QUOTE (motormad @ Aug 15 2013, 10:56 PM) *
In a way I agree with Simon - buy less, buy elsewhere or move.

But naming and shaming on a public forum is a lot cheaper and easier, but just as pointless (a bit like user23's posts)! tongue.gif
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x2lls
post Aug 16 2013, 06:28 AM
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QUOTE (On the edge @ Aug 15 2013, 10:21 PM) *
That last point is a very good one. Again an Adam Smith; the holders of the unearned increment, landlords. Wonder what the rents are in Newbury and so indeed the business rate. Landlords can severely damage commerce - just an instance, it took Wetherspoons far to long to open in Newbury.

Some direct action may be an answer. A boycott would doubtless be ineffective, because visitors and businesses would not want to join, but something like a concerted carefully check the pump for faults and spills then 'go slow' at the 'till, - simply to significantly reduce the take per hour.

Has Richard Garvey had any feedback from his Tesco contacts?



I like your idea, do what the Spanish do in Gibralter!!


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