IPB

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

2 Pages V   1 2 >  
Reply to this topicStart new topic
> GAMA Planning Appeal
Phil_D11102
post Aug 1 2011, 04:31 PM
Post #1


Advanced Member
***

Group: Members
Posts: 403
Joined: 16-April 10
Member No.: 846



http://www.newburytoday.co.uk/News/Article...articleID=17443

It's good to see that an appeal has been lodged, as the GAMA, Building 274 and the Control Tower can be made into a world class musuem telling the story of the part that Newbury played in both WWII and the Cold War.

I was up at Greenham last week. There are loads of cars already being stored up there, as well as loads of ship containers. Loads of buildings have been torn down, and there is ruble all over the place. The place is looking terrible, what a waste of what could of been a great development.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Simon Kirby
post Aug 1 2011, 07:33 PM
Post #2


Advanced Member
***

Group: Members
Posts: 6,326
Joined: 20-July 10
From: Wash Common
Member No.: 1,011



The Control Tower is an iconic building in a great location and would be truely excellent as an interpretation center/tearoom. Do you think WBC would be interested in leasing it Phil?


--------------------
Right an injustice - give Simon Kirby his allotment back!
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
blackdog
post Aug 1 2011, 09:37 PM
Post #3


Advanced Member
***

Group: Members
Posts: 2,945
Joined: 5-June 09
Member No.: 130



I thought the GAMA proposal included a museum of sorts (indeterminate - their words were along the lines of there is potential for a historical museum on the site in the future) as a sweetener to allow the site to be used for car storage.

The 'promise' is so woolly that there must be zero confidence in anything ever happening - unless the museum is made a criteria of any planning consent (thou shalt open a museum within 2 years or pay an enormouse fine) which won't happen.

Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Phil_D11102
post Aug 1 2011, 11:33 PM
Post #4


Advanced Member
***

Group: Members
Posts: 403
Joined: 16-April 10
Member No.: 846



QUOTE (Simon Kirby @ Aug 1 2011, 08:33 PM) *
The Control Tower is an iconic building in a great location and would be truely excellent as an interpretation center/tearoom. Do you think WBC would be interested in leasing it Phil?


What is a "interpretation center".

What the control tower should be is an introduction to the D-Day invasion and what happened around the local area during that time with a bit of information about Eisnehower.

QUOTE
The 'promise' is so woolly that there must be zero confidence in anything ever happening - unless the museum is made a criteria of any planning consent (thou shalt open a museum within 2 years or pay an enormouse fine) which won't happen.


Sure, like the WBC, GC Trust or the NTC putting up a plaque saluting all those who served on the base in the various capacities. Next year will be 20 years since the base operationally closed, and still there is nothing there saying how important the base was in WWII and the Cold War.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Simon Kirby
post Aug 2 2011, 06:31 PM
Post #5


Advanced Member
***

Group: Members
Posts: 6,326
Joined: 20-July 10
From: Wash Common
Member No.: 1,011



QUOTE (Phil_D11102 @ Aug 2 2011, 12:33 AM) *
What is a "interpretation center".

See here. In short an interpretation centre is somewhere that helps make sense of a place for people. A good museum is an interpretation centre of sorts when it goes further than simply displaying its artifacts and usese the artifacts to tell a story and make the place and events relevant for visitors and create that sense of place. And hold onto yourself Phil, but that story includes the contribution of CND and the peace campaigners.


--------------------
Right an injustice - give Simon Kirby his allotment back!
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Phil_D11102
post Aug 2 2011, 11:36 PM
Post #6


Advanced Member
***

Group: Members
Posts: 403
Joined: 16-April 10
Member No.: 846



QUOTE (Simon Kirby @ Aug 2 2011, 07:31 PM) *
See here. In short an interpretation centre is somewhere that helps make sense of a place for people. A good museum is an interpretation centre of sorts when it goes further than simply displaying its artifacts and usese the artifacts to tell a story and make the place and events relevant for visitors and create that sense of place. And hold onto yourself Phil, but that story includes the contribution of CND and the peace campaigners.


Isn't there a "peace garden" dedicated to the peace women OUTSIDE the former front gate.

During the 10th anniversary of GC returning to common land there was loads about the peace women and very little about the military. There are also various pieces of art on the GC about the demilitarization of the base. There is NOTHING on the base to acknowledge that it was in the front lines for close to 50 years.

As for the contribution of CND and the peace women, what did they actually accomplish that the deployment of cruise did not? Did CND bring the Gorbachev to the peace table. Did the peace women bring down the Berlin Wall and reshape Europe? Perhaps it was the resolve of the NATO countries not to bow to the Warsaw Block and those countries wanting to be out from under the opression of the Russians and their troop "deployments" in their countries. Contributon of CND and peace woment. How about commenting on the drain to council resources and the damage they did on and off the base.

If your suggesting that the best idea you can come up with is part of the control tower being an "interpretation" center with it's main focus is to be a tearoom, that that is a slap across the face of every person who ever served up at GC, and to those who left GC on D-Day only to die in battle. I will again fully support the attempts at the GAMA being partly as car storage with the intention of starting up a museum.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Andy Capp
post Aug 3 2011, 12:51 AM
Post #7


Advanced Member
***

Group: Members
Posts: 11,902
Joined: 3-September 09
Member No.: 317



QUOTE (Phil_D11102 @ Aug 3 2011, 12:36 AM) *
As for the contribution of CND and the peace women, what did they actually accomplish that the deployment of cruise did not? Did CND bring the Gorbachev to the peace table. Did the peace women bring down the Berlin Wall and reshape Europe? Perhaps it was the resolve of the NATO countries not to bow to the Warsaw Block and those countries wanting to be out from under the opression of the Russians and their troop "deployments" in their countries. Contributon of CND and peace woment. How about commenting on the drain to council resources and the damage they did on and off the base.

Well they were still a part of the history, regardless of their motive and achievement. What we can be thankful for, was that the USSR ran out of money before the USA did.

QUOTE (Phil_D11102 @ Aug 3 2011, 12:36 AM) *
If your suggesting that the best idea you can come up with is part of the control tower being an "interpretation" center with it's main focus is to be a tearoom, that that is a slap across the face of every person who ever served up at GC, and to those who left GC on D-Day only to die in battle. I will again fully support the attempts at the GAMA being partly as car storage with the intention of starting up a museum.

Well you'll get your cars, but don't hold your breath for a museum.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
NWNREADER
post Aug 3 2011, 06:10 AM
Post #8


Advanced Member
***

Group: Members
Posts: 3,414
Joined: 20-November 10
Member No.: 1,265



QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Aug 3 2011, 01:51 AM) *
Well you'll get your cars, but don't hold your breath for a museum.


The early plan for the Control Tower, one of the reasons it was retained, was to use it as an Information Centre and viewing platform..............
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Phil_D11102
post Aug 3 2011, 07:43 AM
Post #9


Advanced Member
***

Group: Members
Posts: 403
Joined: 16-April 10
Member No.: 846



QUOTE
Well they were still a part of the history, regardless of their motive and achievement. What we can be thankful for, was that the USSR ran out of money before the USA did.


I think their motives were honorable, their actions were dispicable. As for the Russians, it wasn't money, it was the realization that their politics wasn't going to be global, and those who were forced under their rule weren't buying their brand.

QUOTE
Well you'll get your cars, but don't hold your breath for a museum.

The early plan for the Control Tower, one of the reasons it was retained, was to use it as an Information Centre and viewing platform..............


Unlike the council, know for their transparency. The control tower has sat empty for close to twenty years, and nothing has been made of it to date.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Andy Capp
post Aug 3 2011, 08:27 AM
Post #10


Advanced Member
***

Group: Members
Posts: 11,902
Joined: 3-September 09
Member No.: 317



QUOTE (Phil_D11102 @ Aug 3 2011, 08:43 AM) *
I think their motives were honorable, their actions were dispicable. As for the Russians, it wasn't money, it was the realization that their politics wasn't going to be global, and those who were forced under their rule weren't buying their brand.

I fear you are being naive. It was a game of brinkmanship and the Soviet model was unsustainable, as is now, the US's.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Phil_D11102
post Aug 3 2011, 11:36 AM
Post #11


Advanced Member
***

Group: Members
Posts: 403
Joined: 16-April 10
Member No.: 846



QUOTE
I fear you are being naive. It was a game of brinkmanship and the Soviet model was unsustainable, as is now, the US's.


Does East Germany, Poland, Hungary and Czechslovakia spring to mind. That's how the Russians kept their "allies" in line. In both Afghanistan and Iraq the word is "international", be it the U.S. providing a major share of the people their.

The brinkmanship came from the NATO side, buy deciding to deploy Cruise. The Warsaw Pact countries on the receiving end were tired of their polices being dictated by Moscow and now having tactical nuclear weapons based in Europe pointed at them.

Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Andy Capp
post Aug 3 2011, 11:54 AM
Post #12


Advanced Member
***

Group: Members
Posts: 11,902
Joined: 3-September 09
Member No.: 317



QUOTE (Phil_D11102 @ Aug 3 2011, 12:36 PM) *
Does East Germany, Poland, Hungary and Czechslovakia spring to mind. That's how the Russians kept their "allies" in line. In both Afghanistan and Iraq the word is "international", be it the U.S. providing a the vast majority of the military presence there.

I have no sympathy with the Communist ideal (have also adjusted you post for accuracy).

QUOTE (Phil_D11102 @ Aug 3 2011, 12:36 PM) *
The brinkmanship came from the NATO side, buy deciding to deploy Cruise. The Warsaw Pact countries on the receiving end were tired of their polices being dictated by Moscow and now having tactical nuclear weapons based in Europe pointed at them.

The Soviets ran out of money and couldn't pay the army. They collapsed. In the aftermath I am not at all sure the Soviet threat has gone. If anything, they are more dangerous now than before, just at a time the US has had to concede it can't afford world dominion any more.

I also suppose that Europe provided a convenient theatre to protect the States - a quid pro quo.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Phil_D11102
post Aug 3 2011, 01:25 PM
Post #13


Advanced Member
***

Group: Members
Posts: 403
Joined: 16-April 10
Member No.: 846



QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Aug 3 2011, 12:54 PM) *
I have no sympathy with the Communist ideal (have also adjusted you post for accuracy).


The Soviets ran out of money and couldn't pay the army. They collapsed. In the aftermath I am not at all sure the Soviet threat has gone. If anything, they are more dangerous now than before, just at a time the US has had to concede it can't afford world dominion any more.

I also suppose that Europe provided a convenient theatre to protect the States - a quid pro quo.


The Soviets did run out of money, they ran out of allies both in and outside of Russia. Their "allies" didn't like their brand nor having a policy gun to their head.

Don't confuse the U.S. plans for "world domination" to the British Empire.

Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Blake
post Aug 3 2011, 02:08 PM
Post #14


Advanced Member
***

Group: Members
Posts: 507
Joined: 19-May 09
Member No.: 75



It's high time something useful was done with the GAMA and I think Flying A Services deserve to get things moving. I have analysed their plans in depth and no harm will come to the site. It is pretty well bombproof!

It should also create some much needed employment.

Yes, I agree with Phil; just think of the fortune our American allies poured into West Berkshire; £43 million in 1983 alone, and that is in 1980s pounds. It could be three times that if adjusted for inflation. Greenham was a frontline for freedom and yet that reality is omitted from the site today. A grave case of the sin of omission.

A museum and restoration of the control tower are a must.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Andy Capp
post Aug 3 2011, 02:38 PM
Post #15


Advanced Member
***

Group: Members
Posts: 11,902
Joined: 3-September 09
Member No.: 317



QUOTE (Phil_D11102 @ Aug 3 2011, 02:25 PM) *
The Soviets did run out of money, they ran out of allies both in and outside of Russia. Their "allies" didn't like their brand nor having a policy gun to their head. Don't confuse the U.S. plans for "world domination" to the British Empire.

Where have I done that?

In a nutshell. Cruise didn't defeat the USSR. Greenham Common didn't win WW II. Should we have a 'memorial' to the cold war. Perhaps, but many do not share you view of life and many wish to 'forget' the arms race and all that it cost.

While the USSR did have an evil under belly, as far as I know, they have never dropped a nuclear warhead on anyone.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
NWNREADER
post Aug 3 2011, 02:56 PM
Post #16


Advanced Member
***

Group: Members
Posts: 3,414
Joined: 20-November 10
Member No.: 1,265



QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Aug 3 2011, 03:38 PM) *
Where have I done that?

In a nutshell. Cruise didn't defeat the USSR. Greenham Common didn't win WW II. Should we have a 'memorial' to the cold war. Perhaps, but many do not share you view of life and many wish to 'forget' the arms race and all that it cost.

While the USSR did have an evil under belly, as far as I know, they have never dropped a nuclear warhead on anyone.


I believe their testing was done on their own territory before it all went underground - much as we did at Bikini Atoll....

Plenty of places around the UK (and world) have memorials to WW2 (and other conflicts) where significant activities took place. The D-Day flights from GC were significant, not only for the presence of Eisenhower, the nearvby residence of the King of Norway, and the real 'Band of Brothers departure.

In my opinion the memorial should be much more to the wartime activities than the GLCM years. Many of those who left for Normandy did not return home......
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Andy Capp
post Aug 3 2011, 04:00 PM
Post #17


Advanced Member
***

Group: Members
Posts: 11,902
Joined: 3-September 09
Member No.: 317



I think there should be a war memorial for Greenham, and I think a Cold War museum would be interesting. It is just in these days of austerity, I don't see how it will be funded properly. I can understand Phil's point, insofar, this is a piece of American heritage as well as a military air field. I might sound ungracious, but my views previously posted are in a way, speaking for those that are not so enthusiastic about a tribute to the arms race, even if we should in reality be grateful. Some don't see it that way.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
blackdog
post Aug 3 2011, 05:24 PM
Post #18


Advanced Member
***

Group: Members
Posts: 2,945
Joined: 5-June 09
Member No.: 130



QUOTE (NWNREADER @ Aug 3 2011, 03:56 PM) *
I believe their testing was done on their own territory before it all went underground - much as we did at Bikini Atoll....

But we didn't do any testing at Bikini....
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Andy Capp
post Aug 3 2011, 06:32 PM
Post #19


Advanced Member
***

Group: Members
Posts: 11,902
Joined: 3-September 09
Member No.: 317



QUOTE (blackdog @ Aug 3 2011, 06:24 PM) *
But we didn't do any testing at Bikini....

My OP was about its belligerent use.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Phil_D11102
post Aug 3 2011, 08:56 PM
Post #20


Advanced Member
***

Group: Members
Posts: 403
Joined: 16-April 10
Member No.: 846



QUOTE
In a nutshell. Cruise didn't defeat the USSR. Greenham Common didn't win WW II. Should we have a 'memorial' to the cold war. Perhaps, but many do not share you view of life and many wish to 'forget' the arms race and all that it cost.


It was the resolve of NATO by deploying Cruise that brought the Russians to the table. It was the unrest of those under the thumbs of Russia that helped it as well. If it wasn't for the folks who served up at GC and other locations, you probably wouldn't have the opportunity to take part of a forum such as this.


QUOTE
While the USSR did have an evil under belly, as far as I know, they have never dropped a nuclear warhead on anyone


Truman weighed up the choices, either a million American casualites landing in Japan, or dropping the bomb. As for Russia's evil underbelly, how many Russians were killed under Stalin?
Again, the Russian put down anti communist uprisings in Hungary and Czechslovika, and were threating Poland during the Gdansk strikes. They also invaded Afghanistan for no reason.

QUOTE
I can understand Phil's point, insofar, this is a piece of American heritage as well as a military air field. I might sound ungracious, but my views previously posted are in a way, speaking for those that are not so enthusiastic about a tribute to the arms race, even if we should in reality be grateful. Some don't see it that way.


As I said before, I contacted the WBC, GC Trust and the NTC about putting up a plaque for all those regardless of nationality for those who served at Greenham. What happened up at GC during the cruise deployment was as much as a British operation though the weapons and base was under U.S. control. It wasn't the Americans who defended the base during the major demostrations, and it was the RAF Regiment who were assigned to defend the base during wartime operations.

QUOTE
Plenty of places around the UK (and world) have memorials to WW2 (and other conflicts) where significant activities took place. The D-Day flights from GC were significant, not only for the presence of Eisenhower, the nearvby residence of the King of Norway, and the real 'Band of Brothers departure.

In my opinion the memorial should be much more to the wartime activities than the GLCM years. Many of those who left for Normandy did not return home......


Exactly, which is why a museum complex utilising the control tower, Bldg 274 and the GAMA should be developed.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

2 Pages V   1 2 >
Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 

Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 28th March 2024 - 09:13 AM