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> 29th March 2019, Independence Day
newres
post Jun 29 2018, 04:20 AM
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QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Jun 28 2018, 10:42 PM) *
Opinions fella. We all have them. We may not see eye to eye but I respect your will to write the gibberish you spout.👍

However the Brexit leader’s view on business is “F U C K business”. Now I assume by “basket case” you mean economically. Business is pretty much unanimously telling us that we will lose jobs if we don’t stay in the single market. It’s kind of obvious really. In my opinion nothing is more important than us being economically sound as a nation because that means we can provide healthcare, security, welfare and so on. A notion of “taking back control “ is just a “notion”. There won’t even be less immigration as long as we need workers and the Syrian refugee crisis won’t be affected as we are an island and not in Schengen. Although obviously we’re gonna need less workers if we leave.

All that’s really left is a misconception that we’re ruled by Brussels and a dislike of foreigners.
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Biker1
post Jun 29 2018, 04:58 AM
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QUOTE (newres @ Jun 28 2018, 01:27 PM) *
Sorry, I didn't invent the terms Islamophobia, transphobia, homophobia, xenophobia and so on... laugh.gif

No, but many people, maybe including yourself, use them erroneously! tongue.gif
Not liking or agreeing with something is not an irrational fear! rolleyes.gif
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TallDarkAndHands...
post Jun 29 2018, 06:10 AM
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QUOTE (newres @ Jun 29 2018, 05:20 AM) *
However the Brexit leader’s view on business is “F U C K business”. Now I assume by “basket case” you mean economically. Business is pretty much unanimously telling us that we will lose jobs if we don’t stay in the single market. It’s kind of obvious really. In my opinion nothing is more important than us being economically sound as a nation because that means we can provide healthcare, security, welfare and so on. A notion of “taking back control “ is just a “notion”. There won’t even be less immigration as long as we need workers and the Syrian refugee crisis won’t be affected as we are an island and not in Schengen. Although obviously we’re gonna need less workers if we leave.

All that’s really left is a misconception that we’re ruled by Brussels and a dislike of foreigners.


Schengens on its last legs...most countries are just ignoring it now and Merkels position is weak. Macron has a lower approval rating than Trump and nationalist parties are on the rise. Seems like a good tine to leave....
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SirWilliam
post Jun 29 2018, 08:47 AM
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QUOTE (On the edge @ Jun 28 2018, 07:10 PM) *
Depends what you define as Sovereignty. We have a Sovereign and look at the huge powers she has laugh.gif

The EU made no bones about it, 'ever closer union' was and still is the ultimate aim. When that happens doubtless we'll have a ceremonial Westminister with as much power as the County of Berkshire!

We've always had workers from overseas, even before we joined the EU. Don't think very many thought we'd not need overseasj workers when we come out. That flys in the face of past history. For instance, an MP called Powell I think, arranged for large numbers to come to help run our Health service back in the 60s.


Interesting point as to whether protection of sovereignty means the continuation of a monarchy or maintaining a legislate independent of outside influence? When one looks at the last 2,000 years of European history it seems to be one of continual slaughter so any bringing together has to be of some benefit. The problem is that those human attributes that contributed to conflict are still prevalent and anyone who thinks we are immune from war is sadly deluded. A King/Queen will not prevent one anymore than a border post, but a "united" Europe is a formidable force in the face of adversity. On the other side of the pendulum is the collective proletariat who quite honestly don't give a Jean-Claude Juncker who is in charge providing they don't impose their will unduly, but the ugly face of nationalism will inevitably surface when they do, which in essence is what happened when Cameron in his infinite wisdom decided to test the status quo with a plebiscite of unparalleled naivety. It was not so much the EU that people objected to as the arrogant politicians on either side of the English Channel who, in escence, asked the electorate for a vote of confidence and got their answer.
Monarchy,sovereignty,independence are words banded around by those who would make mischief and it will be interesting to see where we are in 10 years.
Probably still sorting out brexit. rolleyes.gif


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dannyboy
post Jun 29 2018, 09:47 AM
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QUOTE (On the edge @ Jun 28 2018, 07:10 PM) *
We've always had workers from overseas, even before we joined the EU. Don't think very many thought we'd not need overseasj workers when we come out. That flys in the face of past history. For instance, an MP called Powell I think, arranged for large numbers to come to help run our Health service back in the 60s.



which makes TDH's comment about immigration being the main reason people voted to leave all the more ironic.
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On the edge
post Jun 29 2018, 11:23 AM
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QUOTE (dannyboy @ Jun 29 2018, 10:47 AM) *
which makes TDH's comment about immigration being the main reason people voted to leave all the more ironic.


Yes, that's the sort of trouble you get into when mainstream politicians start trading misinformation and fake data. It means people with other agendas can manipulate the situation for their own ends. Happens all round. For instance Nigel Farage publicity about funding NHS condemned by the Chancellor only to be adopted 'now the time is right' as official policy!

I've just been talking to people in the UKs rust belt in the Midlands. Looking forward to a return of manufacture, foodstuffs drinks et all in the UK, rather than being tanked from Holland or France. When asked who is going to work the factories as we haven't got enough labour, there was a simple answer. The secret is in the word controlled, the door isn't simply wide open, you just have to knock.

Certainly makes you think. Why aren't the bosses twittering about Brexit starting to think of investing in the UK for once?


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newres
post Jun 29 2018, 01:01 PM
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QUOTE (On the edge @ Jun 29 2018, 12:23 PM) *
Yes, that's the sort of trouble you get into when mainstream politicians start trading misinformation and fake data. It means people with other agendas can manipulate the situation for their own ends. Happens all round. For instance Nigel Farage publicity about funding NHS condemned by the Chancellor only to be adopted 'now the time is right' as official policy!

I've just been talking to people in the UKs rust belt in the Midlands. Looking forward to a return of manufacture, foodstuffs drinks et all in the UK, rather than being tanked from Holland or France. When asked who is going to work the factories as we haven't got enough labour, there was a simple answer. The secret is in the word controlled, the door isn't simply wide open, you just have to knock.

Certainly makes you think. Why aren't the bosses twittering about Brexit starting to think of investing in the UK for once?

Because they want to be able to trade tariff free into Europe perchance?
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On the edge
post Jun 29 2018, 01:04 PM
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QUOTE (SirWilliam @ Jun 29 2018, 09:47 AM) *
Interesting point as to whether protection of sovereignty means the continuation of a monarchy or maintaining a legislate independent of outside influence? When one looks at the last 2,000 years of European history it seems to be one of continual slaughter so any bringing together has to be of some benefit. The problem is that those human attributes that contributed to conflict are still prevalent and anyone who thinks we are immune from war is sadly deluded. A King/Queen will not prevent one anymore than a border post, but a "united" Europe is a formidable force in the face of adversity. On the other side of the pendulum is the collective proletariat who quite honestly don't give a Jean-Claude Juncker who is in charge providing they don't impose their will unduly, but the ugly face of nationalism will inevitably surface when they do, which in essence is what happened when Cameron in his infinite wisdom decided to test the status quo with a plebiscite of unparalleled naivety. It was not so much the EU that people objected to as the arrogant politicians on either side of the English Channel who, in escence, asked the electorate for a vote of confidence and got their answer.
Monarchy,sovereignty,independence are words banded around by those who would make mischief and it will be interesting to see where we are in 10 years.
Probably still sorting out brexit. rolleyes.gif


I'm far from convinced that the 'collective proletariat' don't care who rules. Indeed, even recently there has been some murmuring about the return of the White Horse to a traditional Berkshire. Then, there are the nationalist movements which are pretty sizeable in Wales, Scotland, and Ireland. Plus we have the Cornish half joking about their nation. The English seem to like it too, hence hanging on to illogical Counties which don't exist and the romantic attachment to Royalty - in spite of Rupert Murdoch's best endeavours. The only reason overt displays if 'Englishness' are derided is because it's emblem and flag have been adopted by extreme right wing supporters, who by their own admission, were groomed out of thuggish commercial footballing support. Try telling a Cbannel Islander or a Manxman, it doesn't matter who governs him!


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TallDarkAndHands...
post Jun 29 2018, 02:19 PM
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QUOTE (newres @ Jun 29 2018, 02:01 PM) *
Because they want to be able to trade tariff free into Europe perchance?

Not all traders biggest matket is the EU. The way you bang on anyone would think we export to them more than we import. Its a two way street. I dont think German car manufactuters are going to be keen on punishing us. You really are Mr project fear. Anyways we are out. No turning back. 👍☀😂🍻🍺🍸
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dannyboy
post Jun 29 2018, 02:42 PM
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QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Jun 29 2018, 03:19 PM) *
Not all traders biggest matket is the EU. The way you bang on anyone would think we export to them more than we import. Its a two way street. I dont think German car manufactuters are going to be keen on punishing us. You really are Mr project fear. Anyways we are out. No turning back. 👍☀😂🍻🍺🍸



85% of cars made in the UK go abroad. When that stops the Germans will be busy taking up the slack.
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dannyboy
post Jun 29 2018, 02:44 PM
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QUOTE (On the edge @ Jun 29 2018, 12:23 PM) *
Yes, that's the sort of trouble you get into when mainstream politicians start trading misinformation and fake data. It means people with other agendas can manipulate the situation for their own ends. Happens all round. For instance Nigel Farage publicity about funding NHS condemned by the Chancellor only to be adopted 'now the time is right' as official policy!

I've just been talking to people in the UKs rust belt in the Midlands. Looking forward to a return of manufacture, foodstuffs drinks et all in the UK, rather than being tanked from Holland or France. When asked who is going to work the factories as we haven't got enough labour, there was a simple answer. The secret is in the word controlled, the door isn't simply wide open, you just have to knock.

Certainly makes you think. Why aren't the bosses twittering about Brexit starting to think of investing in the UK for once?



Personally I prefer French wine...Cote Du Walsall & Pays de Kidderminster? No thanks...
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On the edge
post Jun 29 2018, 02:45 PM
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QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Jun 29 2018, 03:19 PM) *
Not all traders biggest matket is the EU. The way you bang on anyone would think we export to them more than we import. Its a two way street. I dont think German car manufactuters are going to be keen on punishing us. You really are Mr project fear. Anyways we are out. No turning back. ��☀��������


We really ought to be promoting UK business; particularly manufacturing.

No reason why we shouldn't see HP sauce, confectionery, dairy products, beer etc.etc.etc. produced here. Just how much diesel fuel that would save. Apparently the Irish are getting a tad worried that their lorry route to our east coast ports is at risk.

Some big sea carriers have been constructed, so far less 'cross UK' lorry movements; good news for our emissions targets.

Then Mr Trump is apparently threatening Harley Davidson with some massive taxes because it's been slagging him off about his imposition of tariffs against the EU. Bring it on, let's hear it for Triumph; still going strong.

Talking of bikes, anyone heard of a couple of lightweight machines - MUTT? 125cc and 250cc imported engines, but put together in English frames in Brum!

We'll get there if only we stop trying to go back to the past - the EU is now in terminal decline.


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newres
post Jun 29 2018, 02:48 PM
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QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Jun 29 2018, 03:19 PM) *
Not all traders biggest matket is the EU. The way you bang on anyone would think we export to them more than we import. Its a two way street. I dont think German car manufactuters are going to be keen on punishing us. You really are Mr project fear. Anyways we are out. No turning back. 👍☀😂🍻🍺🍸

No, but where’s the advantage for those that trade outside of Europe? They face just as much uncertainty as those that trade into Europe. There just is no upside economically. We are hardly going to be able to gain better trading deals on our own than we did as part of the largest trading bloc on the planet. If you can actually state one benefit from day one to our economy then I’m all ears.
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TallDarkAndHands...
post Jun 29 2018, 02:52 PM
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QUOTE (On the edge @ Jun 29 2018, 03:45 PM) *
We really ought to be promoting UK business; particularly manufacturing.

No reason why we shouldn't see HP sauce, confectionery, dairy products, beer etc.etc.etc. produced here. Just how much diesel fuel that would save. Apparently the Irish are getting a tad worried that their lorry route to our east coast ports is at risk.

Some big sea carriers have been constructed, so far less 'cross UK' lorry movements; good news for our emissions targets.

Then Mr Trump is apparently threatening Harley Davidson with some massive taxes because it's been slagging him off about his imposition of tariffs against the EU. Bring it on, let's hear it for Triumph; still going strong.

Talking of bikes, anyone heard of a couple of lightweight machines - MUTT? 125cc and 250cc imported engines, but put together in English frames in Brum!

We'll get there if only we stop trying to go back to the past - the EU is now in terminal decline.


To a lot in here the EU is some sort of deity rather than a corrupt unaudited bloated parady of the original common market that we joined. It just needs a reset and us leaving may precipitate that. I think it has already started a conversation amongst the other EU stalwarts. Being anti EU is not being xenophobic or anti Europe.
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newres
post Jun 29 2018, 03:25 PM
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QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Jun 29 2018, 03:52 PM) *
Being anti EU is not being xenophobic or anti Europe.

True, but every xenophobe IS anti EU. And it's rare during online "debates" that those that are anti-EU don't bring immigration into it. Immigration levels will only change if job levels change.
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TallDarkAndHands...
post Jun 29 2018, 06:19 PM
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QUOTE (newres @ Jun 29 2018, 04:25 PM) *
True, but every xenophobe IS anti EU. And it's rare during online "debates" that those that are anti-EU don't bring immigration into it. Immigration levels will only change if job levels change.

And every liberal wants open borders as long as they dont have to put immigrants up in there own homes. Talk the talk. Walk the walk.
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newres
post Jun 29 2018, 06:22 PM
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QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Jun 29 2018, 07:19 PM) *
And every liberal wants open borders as long as they dont have to put immigrants up in there own homes. Talk the talk. Walk the walk.

But I wouldn't want you in my home either! Silly argument.
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dannyboy
post Jun 29 2018, 06:38 PM
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QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Jun 29 2018, 07:19 PM) *
And every liberal wants open borders as long as they dont have to put immigrants up in there own homes. Talk the talk. Walk the walk.



We had an Afghan refugee stay with us for 5 months. Nice lad.
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TallDarkAndHands...
post Jun 29 2018, 06:59 PM
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QUOTE (dannyboy @ Jun 29 2018, 07:38 PM) *
We had an Afghan refugee stay with us for 5 months. Nice lad.

Good for you...How did that come about?
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TallDarkAndHands...
post Jun 29 2018, 07:01 PM
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QUOTE (newres @ Jun 29 2018, 07:22 PM) *
But I wouldn't want you in my home either! Silly argument.

No its not. If you feel that strongly about it and have spare rooms, you could easily help as it appears dannyboy has done.
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