NTC admit lack of expertise., Can't run a public toilet. Options

[On the edge]

Have a look at the report on page 5, in this week's NWN. Apparently the Wharf toilets will stay open, but at 20p a go. However, NTC are looking for contractors to help, because they haven't got the necessary expertise.

Interesting; how come a Council that doesn't have the expertise apparently necessary to run public lavatory, thinks it has the expertise to run allotments, cemetaries, markets and construction projects?

Would they like somone to donate a brush?

[blackdog]

Have a look at the report on page 5, in this week's NWN. Apparently the Wharf toilets will stay open, but at 20p a go. However, NTC are looking for contractors to help, because they haven't got the necessary expertise.

Interesting; how come a Council that doesn't have the expertise apparently necessary to run public lavatory, thinks it has the expertise to run allotments, cemetaries, markets and construction projects?

The expertise they apply to the tasks you list seems limited to employing a contractor to do it for them (fairly typical of local government) - why expect toilets to be any different?

[TallDarkAndHands...]

The expertise they apply to the tasks you list seems limited to employing a contractor to do it for them (fairly typical of local government) - why expect toilets to be any different?

They'll probably subcontract to Crapita or the like and get charged 50p per visit by them....😮😂

[On the edge]

The expertise they apply to the tasks you list seems limited to employing a contractor to do it for them (fairly typical of local government) - why expect toilets to be any different?

That's the point, the condition of the services they already deliver by employing contractors or otherwise, demonstrates a lamentable lack of any measure of expertise. This is the very first time they've admitted it!

[Cognosco]

That's the point, the condition of the services they already deliver by employing contractors or otherwise, demonstrates a lamentable lack of any measure of expertise. This is the very first time they've admitted it!

How many years have we been stating this.................so how many more years before they admit that to have a town council is a complete waste of time and money, just to keep some local busybodies with nothing better to do than stroke their own egos, and get rid of the lot. As the saying goes cut out the middlemen!

[user23]

That's the point, the condition of the services they already deliver by employing contractors or otherwise, demonstrates a lamentable lack of any measure of expertise. This is the very first time they've admitted it!

Don't they contract out park maintenance?

[On the edge]

Don't they contract out park maintenance?

Indeed they do. Apparently WBC contracts out most of its own services and still has a large well supported staff. They, of course, contract out the maintenance of Northcroft Park. So it really made good sense and was quite logical to spend rather a lot of money on legal work transferring Victoria Park (literally yards from Northcroft) and its maintenance to a couple of clerks at NTC, who were unlikely to have had any significant experience in contract management. Still, that's local politicians for you; couldn't run a public lavatory....

[user23]

..a couple of clerks at NTC, who were unlikely to have had any significant experience in contract management.

Now you're saying NTC are wrong to contract stuff out, you do love arguing against yourself.

So back to NTC contracting out stuff, the kiosk in the park, do NTC run that or is it contracted out?

[On the edge]

Now you're saying NTC are wrong to contract stuff out, you do love arguing against yourself.

So back to NTC contracting out stuff, the kiosk in the park, do NTC run that or is it contracted out?

No dearie, it's not about contracting or otherwise, its about 'lack of expertise' - the implication has to be that if NTC can't manage a public lavatory, they certainly can't manage contracts. What an organisation, saying your staff have no expertise; hardly very motivating is it? Still, I can see where you are coming from, in pay terms, this has to mean the pay rates for lavatory attendants need to be significantly enhanced.

[user23]

No dearie, it's not about contracting or otherwise, its about 'lack of expertise' - the implication has to be that if NTC can't manage a public lavatory, they certainly can't manage contracts. What an organisation, saying your staff have no expertise; hardly very motivating is it? Still, I can see where you are coming from, in pay terms, this has to mean the pay rates for lavatory attendants need to be significantly enhanced.

I think this was already covered here

The expertise they apply to the tasks you list seems limited to employing a contractor to do it for them (fairly typical of local government) - why expect toilets to be any different?

[On the edge]

I think this was already covered here

Quite so, but that doesn't make it right, immune from criticism or hilarity. Essentially, we are talking about installing a turnstile and employing a couple of people to keep the place tidy. It's literally yards from NTC's rather elaborate citadel! Do you honestly believe, with the number of people on their payroll they can't actually do that? After all, even his worship believes that even smaller parish councils can handle major projects.

Employ contractors to do a job as small as it is simple; little wonder the Government finance people think we have money to burn round here.

[user23]

Quite so, but that doesn't make it right, immune from criticism or hilarity. Essentially, we are talking about installing a turnstile and employing a couple of people to keep the place tidy. It's literally yards from NTC's rather elaborate citadel! Do you honestly believe, with the number of people on their payroll they can't actually do that? After all, even his worship believes that even smaller parish councils can handle major projects.

Employ contractors to do a job as small as it is simple; little wonder the Government finance people think we have money to burn round here.

You're arguing against yourself here again.

In another thread you supported centralisation and the economy of scale that brings, now you're chastising a council for not micro-managing a function they've taken on.

[On the edge]

You're arguing against yourself here again.

In another thread you supported centralisation and the economy of scale that brings, now you're chastising a council for not micro-managing a function they've taken on.

No, actually DOING the job you are asked to do is not micro management! Ironically, you've actually identified the nub of the issue with 'local' government, everyone thinks they are a manager. In fact, the NTC example demonstrates exactly why centralisation is the way forward. Ask the staff to do something, they immediatley call in contractors. The issue Demonstrates that this attitude is institutionalised.

I fully accept I'm mixed up, being a mere voter means I don't count anyway and certainly not if I live in Thatcham. So, as you only ever appear to throw bricks at anyone with suggestions, what are your ideas? With your logical approach I'm sure they'd be worth hearing.

[user23]

In fact, the NTC example demonstrates exactly why centralisation is the way forward. Ask the staff to do something, they immediatley call in contractors. The issue Demonstrates that this attitude is institutionalised.

You'd rather their staff have a go at fixing a hand dryer themselves for example, rather than contracting it out to someone with the experience and tools to repair it themselves?

[On the edge]

You'd rather their staff have a go at fixing a hand dryer themselves for example, rather than contracting it out to someone with the experience and tools to repair it themselves?

How hard can that be? Look up local electrician on line, send message asking him to visit....less time than it takes to have a pee! Presumably in your complex world that's 'contract management' rather than something even the humble attendant could deal with Again, if your view is endemic in local government, the staff aren't even capable of dealing with minor issues on their own I agree with you, formally contracting out would be the best way. Then, by extension, I'm sure you'll agree, it would be expensive and pointless having hundreds of clerks all over the country 'managing contracts' to deliver exactly the same services, so you've arrived at centralisation after all. Well done!

[user23]

How hard can that be? Look up local electrician on line, send message asking him to visit....less time than it takes to have a pee!

I take it you've never run a business as I imagine that's probably more expensive, plus you wouldn't have any sort of service level agreement.

I guess it would be far better to contract out supply and maintenance of something like this.

Your issue was was with "actually DOING the job you are asked to do", and phoning up a local sparky also isn't doing the job yourself, its getting in expertise from outside, the same as contracting it out.

[On the edge]

I take it you've never run a business as I imagine that's probably more expensive, plus you wouldn't have any sort of service level agreement.

I guess it would be far better to contract out supply and maintenance of something like this.

Your issue was was with "actually DOING the job you are asked to do", and phoning up a local sparky also isn't doing the job yourself, its getting in expertise from outside, the same as contracting it out.

Yes, I have run a business as it happens, indeed I still do. I'm really quite surprised you don't fully understand what 'contract management' all about, but gratified you have enough to see the point of centralisation. Don't worry about the rest!

[user23]

Yes, I have run a business as it happens, indeed I still do. I'm really quite surprised you don't fully understand what 'contract management' all about, but gratified you have enough to see the point of centralisation. Don't worry about the rest!

Yes, I see the point and in fact I haven't said I'm against centralisation.

You seem to alter your stance on everything taking the contrary view to that of the local councils, and very often you're arguing against what you have said previously which generally makes for a really poor discussion on here.

It's disappointingly fickle and has possibly contributed to the lack of discussion on here.

[On the edge]

Yes, I see the point and in fact I haven't said I'm against centralisation.

You seem to alter your stance on everything taking the contrary view to that of the local councils, and very often you're arguing against what you have said previously which generally makes for a really poor discussion on here.

It's disappointingly fickle and has possibly contributed to the lack of discussion on here.

Really? But then you only ever throw bricks, coming out with hacknied one liners, generally ungrounded and usually missing the point. All classic diversionary tactics from those unwilling to think beyond their own parochial understandings. Your sanctimonious and snide responses aren't debate or even banter, simply depressing.

My views on our local councils round here have not changed, in fact they have strengthened. If you can't see that, then I'm saddened; simply because it demonstrates that there is justification for the return of grammar schools, if only to teach people how to think for themselves.

[user23]

My views on our local councils round here have not changed, in fact they have strengthened. If you can't see that, then I'm saddened; simply because it demonstrates that there is justification for the return of grammar schools, if only to teach people how to think for themselves.

Your own views constantly change and contradict themselves depending on the situation, and you patronise anyone with a different view to the one you hold at any particular time.

This isn't a debate, it's you defeating your own arguments with your constantly shifting position and then being abusive when someone points it out to you.

Again, I'm out.