Europe - In or Out, Straw Poll for Forumisters Options

[Andy Capp]

“What did the EU ever do for us?

In the week when the UK's five extremist right-wing media billionaires won their battle to waste our time, money and political capital on a EU referendum, I thought it a good time to post the great letter by Simon Sweeney in the Guardian, which he kindly allowed me to reproduce in my book, "The Prostitute State - How Britain's Democracy has Been Bought":

"What did the EU ever do for us?
Not much, apart from: providing 57% of our trade;
structural funding to areas hit by industrial decline;
clean beaches and rivers;
cleaner air;
lead free petrol;
restrictions on landfill dumping;
a recycling culture;
cheaper mobile charges;
cheaper air travel;
improved consumer protection and food labelling;
a ban on growth hormones and other harmful food additives;
better product safety;
single market competition bringing quality improvements and better industrial performance;
break up of monopolies;
Europe-wide patent and copyright protection;
no paperwork or customs for exports throughout the single market;
price transparency and removal of commission on currency exchanges across the eurozone;
freedom to travel, live and work across Europe;
funded opportunities for young people to undertake study or work placements abroad;
access to European health services;
labour protection and enhanced social welfare;
smoke-free workplaces;
equal pay legislation;
holiday entitlement;
the right not to work more than a 48-hour week without overtime;
strongest wildlife protection in the world;
improved animal welfare in food production;
EU-funded research and industrial collaboration;
EU representation in international forums;
bloc EEA negotiation at the WTO;
EU diplomatic efforts to uphold the nuclear non-proliferation treaty;
European arrest warrant;
cross border policing to combat human trafficking, arms and drug smuggling; counter terrorism intelligence;
European civil and military co-operation in post-conflict zones in Europe and Africa;
support for democracy and human rights across Europe and beyond;
investment across Europe contributing to better living standards and educational, social and cultural capital.
All of this is nothing compared with its greatest achievements: the EU has for 60 years been the foundation of peace between European neighbours after centuries of bloodshed.
It furthermore assisted the extraordinary political, social and economic transformation of 13 former dictatorships, now EU members, since 1980.
Now the union faces major challenges brought on by neoliberal economic globalisation, and worsened by its own systemic weaknesses. It is taking measures to overcome these. We in the UK should reflect on whether our net contribution of £7bn out of total government expenditure of £695bn is good value. We must play a full part in enabling the union to be a force for good in a multi-polar global future.

Simon Sweeney,

Lecturer in international political economy, University of York"

Please share - the anti-EU campaign will have the full force of Murdoch's and the other 4 extremist right-wing media billionaires papers whose agenda is to destroy all our human rights.

As I wrote in The Prostitute State, over 80% of UK papers are owned by five extremist right wing media billionaires: Rupert Murdoch, (Sun/Times), Barclay Brothers (Telegraph), Richard Desmond (Express) and Lord Rothermere (Daily Mail).

Murdoch is Australian living in New York, Rothermere lives in France, the Barclay Brothers in the tax havens of Monaco and Guernsey. All of them use tax haven entities to avoid UK taxes.

So key question is in light of the above list, why have these billionaires for decades tried to destroy the EU's democratic institutions?

Together we can take him/them on and beat him/them.

peace love respect
Donnachadh x
www.theprostitutestate.co.uk

[On the edge]

I fear being in or out wouldn't make the difference. Poor government planning results in being vulnerable to exploitation, e.g. West Berks Council and town centre apartments.

Quite, so as maintaining a common market is the prime reason for their existance, there is little point in paying the huge sums we do for their efforts.

[On the edge]

“What did the EU ever do for us?

In the week when the UK's five extremist right-wing media billionaires won their battle to waste our time, money and political capital on a EU referendum, I thought it a good time to post the great letter by Simon Sweeney in the Guardian, which he kindly allowed me to reproduce in my book, "The Prostitute State - How Britain's Democracy has Been Bought":

"What did the EU ever do for us?
Not much, apart from: providing 57% of our trade;
structural funding to areas hit by industrial decline;
clean beaches and rivers;
cleaner air;
lead free petrol;
restrictions on landfill dumping;
a recycling culture;
cheaper mobile charges;
cheaper air travel;
improved consumer protection and food labelling;
a ban on growth hormones and other harmful food additives;
better product safety;
single market competition bringing quality improvements and better industrial performance;
break up of monopolies;
Europe-wide patent and copyright protection;
no paperwork or customs for exports throughout the single market;
price transparency and removal of commission on currency exchanges across the eurozone;
freedom to travel, live and work across Europe;
funded opportunities for young people to undertake study or work placements abroad;
access to European health services;
labour protection and enhanced social welfare;
smoke-free workplaces;
equal pay legislation;
holiday entitlement;
the right not to work more than a 48-hour week without overtime;
strongest wildlife protection in the world;
improved animal welfare in food production;
EU-funded research and industrial collaboration;
EU representation in international forums;
bloc EEA negotiation at the WTO;
EU diplomatic efforts to uphold the nuclear non-proliferation treaty;
European arrest warrant;
cross border policing to combat human trafficking, arms and drug smuggling; counter terrorism intelligence;
European civil and military co-operation in post-conflict zones in Europe and Africa;
support for democracy and human rights across Europe and beyond;
investment across Europe contributing to better living standards and educational, social and cultural capital.
All of this is nothing compared with its greatest achievements: the EU has for 60 years been the foundation of peace between European neighbours after centuries of bloodshed.
It furthermore assisted the extraordinary political, social and economic transformation of 13 former dictatorships, now EU members, since 1980.
Now the union faces major challenges brought on by neoliberal economic globalisation, and worsened by its own systemic weaknesses. It is taking measures to overcome these. We in the UK should reflect on whether our net contribution of £7bn out of total government expenditure of £695bn is good value. We must play a full part in enabling the union to be a force for good in a multi-polar global future.

Simon Sweeney,

Lecturer in international political economy, University of York"

Please share - the anti-EU campaign will have the full force of Murdoch's and the other 4 extremist right-wing media billionaires papers whose agenda is to destroy all our human rights.

As I wrote in The Prostitute State, over 80% of UK papers are owned by five extremist right wing media billionaires: Rupert Murdoch, (Sun/Times), Barclay Brothers (Telegraph), Richard Desmond (Express) and Lord Rothermere (Daily Mail).

Murdoch is Australian living in New York, Rothermere lives in France, the Barclay Brothers in the tax havens of Monaco and Guernsey. All of them use tax haven entities to avoid UK taxes.

So key question is in light of the above list, why have these billionaires for decades tried to destroy the EU's democratic institutions?

Together we can take him/them on and beat him/them.

peace love respect
Donnachadh x
www.theprostitutestate.co.uk

Seriously?

I think I could argue with a good many of those! It's this ungrounded bilge that takes much credibility from the yes side. Ironic, 'break up of monopolies' is listed - see immediately previous post!

[Simon Kirby]

“What did the EU ever do for us...

And pretty much all of that I appreciate. Blighty is a more just, a more responsible society, and it's a miserable truth that, but for our membership of the EU, we might still be living in our own 70's crapulance. Of course, having had some benefit from EU membership there is no reason per se why we shouldn't now leave, and quite honestly I don't believe the EU should have got itself involved in hardly any of those things, but here's the pinch - without the EU this tin-pot island of ours just doesn't appear to have civilised sufficiently to want those things for itself and we'd rather grow our hedges and cower indoors like some piss-pants old misanthrope.

[Andy Capp]

Seriously?

I think I could argue with a good many of those! It's this ungrounded bilge that takes much credibility from the yes side. Ironic, 'break up of monopolies' is listed - see immediately previous post!

Please name three things that are highest on your things that you disagree?

[On the edge]

Please name three things that are highest on your things that you disagree?

OK, take the first five. The UK was either doing or well on the way when joined. The 'EU' have been involved since then, of course, but claiming 'they did it' rather like the Americans saying they won WW2 - yes indeed, BUT actually, they helped.

[GMR]

I fear being in or out wouldn't make the difference. Poor government planning results in being vulnerable to exploitation, e.g. West Berks Council and town centre apartments.

It would make a difference in the sense that we are in charge of our own destiny.

[Biker1]

OK, take the first five. The UK was either doing or well on the way when joined. The 'EU' have been involved since then, of course, but claiming 'they did it' rather like the Americans saying they won WW2 - yes indeed, BUT actually, they helped.

I like "cleaner air" and "cheaper air travel" being in the same list!

[Andy Capp]

It would make a difference in the sense that we are in charge of our own destiny.

That is just the point; we wouldn't necessarily.

[TallDarkAndHands...]

That is just the point; we wouldn't necessarily.

BUT we would only have our own elected leaders and ourselves to blame. That is the nub.

[Andy Capp]

BUT we would only have our own elected leaders and ourselves to blame. That is the nub.

Which is another good point: if I am averagely intelligent, half the voting population are thicker than me.

[TallDarkAndHands...]

Which is another good point: if I am averagely intelligent, half the voting population are thicker than me.

Perhaps we should introduce an exam to qualify for voting.

A written English and Maths exam should do the trick.

Pass and you get to vote. I'm sure UKIP would be up for it!

[je suis Charlie]

Which is another good point: if I am averagely intelligent, half the voting population are thicker than me.

Or conversely.

[Andy Capp]

Or conversely.

Sadly being intelligent brings no guarantee of rational decisions.

[Andy1]

Leave the EU for Freedom. Freedom to restore the legal system. To negotiate better trade deals. Regenerate the British fishing industry. To spend the vast sums of money here rather than on a costly membership. To make economic and social decisions at home.

[Simon Kirby]

Perhaps we should introduce an exam to qualify for voting.

A written English and Maths exam should do the trick.

Alrighty: Question #1. A sizable majority of voters are less than averagely intelligent.

Might that be true? Show your workings.

[Simon Kirby]

Leave the EU for Freedom. Freedom to restore the legal system.

And which specific pieces of European legislation are making life so intolerable for you?

[Andy1]

And which specific pieces of European legislation are making life so intolerable for you?

I think I covered a few but the freedom negotiate anything is very important. We simply do not have this now. If we do please correct me.

[Andy1]

I think I covered a few but the freedom negotiate anything is very important. We simply do not have this now. If we do please correct me.

Apologies I didn't read your question correctly. Unlike some European nations we've been pretty peaceful internally for 100 of years, I would suggest this is due mostly to ours, I maybe wrong.

[Ken]

My vote would be for out.