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> CoronaVirus, Nature will find a way
je suis Charlie
post May 22 2020, 08:56 PM
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Coincidence huh,

https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/22/investing/mo...ales/index.html

Still, why not.
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Mr Brown
post May 22 2020, 09:11 PM
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QUOTE (newres @ May 22 2020, 08:24 PM) *
Whatís apparent is that other than PPE shortages the NHS was far from overwhelmed. Pretty much everything else was shut down so there was huge capacity and the bar was set so high to get in that many died at home. Additionally infected elderly patients were sent back into care homes untested.

Iíve no idea at what level these decisions were taken, but Iíd say that the service was therefore sub prime.

There will be a cost for years to come in cancer deaths, heart disease and other illnesses.


Lack of testing is actually only one, and possibly only a subsidiary reason. The elderly patients discharged were in hospital for other reasons. There is regular traffic between Care Home and Hospital. Even in normal circumstances, hospital bed occupancy needs to be carefully managed and as soon as any patient is fit for discharge, they must go home. So, if you are in because of your heart problem, out you go when you are stable. No testing is going to pick up an infection that happened in previous hours. Sadly, the biggest issue is procedural - any patient arriving back needed isolating. Further, the perfectly acceptable care home staff practice of working unconstrained in several settings is now serious issue. There are also procedural issues with who is told of a care home patients medical history. And so on. The care home issue is very sad indeed but the reasons for it and what needs to be done is far more complex than the populist shout that is all the Governments fault for not testing! Arguably the media peddling this simplistic view is insulting and distressing.
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je suis Charlie
post May 22 2020, 09:32 PM
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QUOTE (Mr Brown @ May 22 2020, 10:11 PM) *
Lack of testing is actually only one, and possibly only a subsidiary reason. The elderly patients discharged were in hospital for other reasons. There is regular traffic between Care Home and Hospital. Even in normal circumstances, hospital bed occupancy needs to be carefully managed and as soon as any patient is fit for discharge, they must go home. So, if you are in because of your heart problem, out you go when you are stable. No testing is going to pick up an infection that happened in previous hours. Sadly, the biggest issue is procedural - any patient arriving back needed isolating. Further, the perfectly acceptable care home staff practice of working unconstrained in several settings is now serious issue. There are also procedural issues with who is told of a care home patients medical history. And so on. The care home issue is very sad indeed but the reasons for it and what needs to be done is far more complex than the populist shout that is all the Governments fault for not testing! Arguably the media peddling this simplistic view is insulting and distressing.

Unfortunately it's pointless trying to explain the facts, he doesn't want to know, all he ever does is whine on about the Tory government. He still hasn't got over being on the losing side, again, and again, and again.
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James_Trinder
post May 22 2020, 09:41 PM
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QUOTE (Mr Brown @ May 22 2020, 10:11 PM) *
Lack of testing is actually only one, and possibly only a subsidiary reason. The elderly patients discharged were in hospital for other reasons. There is regular traffic between Care Home and Hospital. Even in normal circumstances, hospital bed occupancy needs to be carefully managed and as soon as any patient is fit for discharge, they must go home. So, if you are in because of your heart problem, out you go when you are stable. No testing is going to pick up an infection that happened in previous hours. Sadly, the biggest issue is procedural - any patient arriving back needed isolating. Further, the perfectly acceptable care home staff practice of working unconstrained in several settings is now serious issue. There are also procedural issues with who is told of a care home patients medical history. And so on. The care home issue is very sad indeed but the reasons for it and what needs to be done is far more complex than the populist shout that is all the Governments fault for not testing! Arguably the media peddling this simplistic view is insulting and distressing.


The problem is exactly procedural and almost entirely due to the fact that health and social care are joined in the name of a department but not sufficiently practically.
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TallDarkAndHands...
post May 22 2020, 09:42 PM
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QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ May 22 2020, 10:32 PM) *
Unfortunately it's pointless trying to explain the facts, he doesn't want to know, all he ever does is whine on about the Tory government. He still hasn't got over being on the losing side, again, and again, and again.

He never ever picks a winning side. Basically he is a great tipster. Just lump on anything he disagrees with.😂😂
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je suis Charlie
post May 22 2020, 09:53 PM
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QUOTE (James_Trinder @ May 22 2020, 10:41 PM) *
The problem is exactly procedural and almost entirely due to the fact that health and social care are joined in the name of a department but not sufficiently practically.

As is so much of central government. Unfortunately.
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TallDarkAndHands...
post May 24 2020, 02:29 PM
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When do we burn Cummings at the stake?

My guess is he will "resign", be available on the phone and be back in a few months.

Wont actually achieve anything apart from appeasing a load of remainers and leftists who cant get over Brexit.

He has been a **** yes, but the media pile on is laughable.
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Mr Brown
post May 24 2020, 02:56 PM
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QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ May 24 2020, 03:29 PM) *
When do we burn Cummings at the stake?

My guess is he will "resign", be available on the phone and be back in a few months.

Wont actually achieve anything apart from appeasing a load of remainers and leftists who cant get over Brexit.

He has been a **** yes, but the media pile on is laughable.


Hard to disagree with any of that!
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Andy Capp
post May 24 2020, 03:01 PM
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Itís worse than that. Ether he lied to the Government, or the Government lied to us. He needs to go. The Brexit issue is that we will be left with this diabolical government.
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TallDarkAndHands...
post May 24 2020, 07:35 PM
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QUOTE (Andy Capp @ May 24 2020, 04:01 PM) *
Itís worse than that. Ether he lied to the Government, or the Government lied to us. He needs to go. The Brexit issue is that we will be left with this diabolical government.

Personally I hope he knights Cummings tomorrow, asks Farage to be a Home secretary, and says everyone has to go back to work on Tuesday.😂👍
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Mr Brown
post May 25 2020, 07:50 AM
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QUOTE (Andy Capp @ May 24 2020, 04:01 PM) *
Itís worse than that. Ether he lied to the Government, or the Government lied to us. He needs to go. The Brexit issue is that we will be left with this diabolical government.


Diabolical it may be, but the alternative doesn't bear thinking about. As for the EU, the global pandemic has turned what some saw as a life belt has morphed into a millstone.
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je suis Charlie
post May 25 2020, 12:35 PM
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QUOTE (Andy Capp @ May 24 2020, 04:01 PM) *
Itís worse than that. Ether he lied to the Government, or the Government lied to us. He needs to go. The Brexit issue is that we will be left with this diabolical government.

You are I take it referring to the Brexit decision democratically arrived at with what amounted to a second referendum in December? And the government that gained power in one of the greatest landslide elections in three generations?
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Andy Capp
post May 25 2020, 01:01 PM
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QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ May 25 2020, 01:35 PM) *
You are I take it referring to the Brexit decision democratically arrived at with what amounted to a second referendum in December? And the government that gained power in one of the greatest landslide elections in three generations?

Brexit means we will be left with this shower of idiots. That one.
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Andy Capp
post May 25 2020, 01:02 PM
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QUOTE (Mr Brown @ May 25 2020, 08:50 AM) *
Diabolical it may be, but the alternative doesn't bear thinking about. As for the EU, the global pandemic has turned what some saw as a life belt has morphed into a millstone.

Like this is salvation.
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TallDarkAndHands...
post May 25 2020, 01:22 PM
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QUOTE (Andy Capp @ May 25 2020, 02:02 PM) *
Like this is salvation.

You ain't seen nothing yet. Wait till furlough is cut and millions are made redundant. Then they will have something to moan about rather than this faux outrage from lefties and #fbpe remainers.
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je suis Charlie
post May 25 2020, 02:13 PM
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Also wait with excitement the inrush of breath when the mouth breathers realise that their mortgage 'holidays' actually need paying back.
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TallDarkAndHands...
post May 25 2020, 03:23 PM
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QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ May 25 2020, 03:13 PM) *
Also wait with excitement the inrush of breath when the mouth breathers realise that their mortgage 'holidays' actually need paying back.

Quite. Some people commuting to London have been much better off being furloughed, with no travel expenses and no mortgage. No wonder they are keen to keep on furloughing ...🙄
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Mr Brown
post May 25 2020, 04:24 PM
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QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ May 25 2020, 04:23 PM) *
Quite. Some people commuting to London have been much better off being furloughed, with no travel expenses and no mortgage. No wonder they are keen to keep on furloughing ...🙄


Yep! Going to have an interesting effect on the office property market too - even our traditional directors can smell the coffee!
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je suis Charlie
post May 25 2020, 05:05 PM
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QUOTE (Mr Brown @ May 25 2020, 05:24 PM) *
Yep! Going to have an interesting effect on the office property market too - even our traditional directors can smell the coffee!

Going to be a lot more working from home and a lot less hot desking in the future. "Sorry, you don't get a company car, not if you're working from home". I see a lot of office space going begging with no-one to fill it, it's certainly enough to worry some people.
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Mr Brown
post May 25 2020, 05:43 PM
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QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ May 25 2020, 06:05 PM) *
Going to be a lot more working from home and a lot less hot desking in the future. "Sorry, you don't get a company car, not if you're working from home". I see a lot of office space going begging with no-one to fill it, it's certainly enough to worry some people.


What woke us up was the management reports which were actually showing an increase in productivity. Plus, the little admin. team who field the phone calls have been doing that at home too. Their supervisor also took it on herself to set up a PO box number for the relatively few letters we get sent - either answers them, or just copies electronically to who ever is appropriate. So doesn't look like we'll renew the lease in a few months time. Looks as if I'll be able to live where I want to from then on too.
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