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Posted by: gel Oct 1 2010, 10:34 AM

Why are Police causing massive inconvenience to thousands and not bringing incident to swift end by intervention; presume a jumper or the like?

http://www.newburytoday.co.uk/News/Article.aspx?articleID=14702


Almost certainly this will result in more accidents due to overloaded local roads, whilst police never seem to have in mind rapid reopening of this major artery.

Posted by: JeffG Oct 1 2010, 11:12 AM

Yes, the police are doing this deliberately. Nothing amuses them more than causing traffic chaos - it spices up their boring lives.

(For those who take comments like this literally - and there are some - I am being sarcastic.)

Also http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/8064867.stm is not an option, I believe.

Posted by: dannyboy Oct 1 2010, 11:15 AM

How do you bring a swift end to someone threatening to jump off a bridge? Push them?

Posted by: theone09 Oct 1 2010, 11:17 AM

Exactly, push em off. If they want to die, let them die!!

Posted by: Iommi Oct 1 2010, 11:21 AM

There's the person's family to consider as well. That is someone's dad, mother, brother, sister, son, etc...

Posted by: Bloggo Oct 1 2010, 11:27 AM

Well, it is sad if someone gets to the point where they want to end it all but they should either get on and do it or if they change their mind, leave the scene.
Holding up thousands of people and causing havoc is just plain selfish.
Why can't they do it quietly?

Posted by: Bill1 Oct 1 2010, 11:34 AM

BloodyHell!

No wonder I hardly bother posting on here anymore.

Posted by: Iommi Oct 1 2010, 11:38 AM

Quite Bill1; the world is full of thoughtless, ignorant people and this thread has exposed at least 3.

Posted by: Brad Oct 1 2010, 11:53 AM

What happened to the good old fashion rope and a tree? Or a bottle of pills and whiskey. It's selfish to kill yourself anyway but inconveniencing other people.. no need? People who jump off bridges onto cars below, and people who jump in front of trains, yes they have mental issues as killing yourself goes against all survival instincts, but are selfish nonetheless.

I've thought many a time of getting out quick and not having to put up with life, a nice secluded field with a tree nice views taking your life peacefully! Not this attention seeking bridge rubbish!

Posted by: Bloggo Oct 1 2010, 11:54 AM

Thousands of people are dying everyday. We all do it sooner or later.
If someone wants to go sooner than their natural time then that's their decision.
Most choose to do it with a little grace and privacy choosing not to disrupt the lives of those around them such as the Milners, brave and gentle people.
Standing on a motorway bridge after the traffic has been stopped tells me that whoever it was is just trying to get attention and has no wish to complete the deed.

Posted by: Iommi Oct 1 2010, 12:04 PM

The list grows, Bill1!

Posted by: Richard Garvie Oct 1 2010, 12:20 PM

If it was somebody you knew, would you not want the police to talk them down??? If it was someone that I knew, I would be relieved that the police had prevented it from ending in a death.

Living in Stockcross, I must have seen around four or five people threatening to jump of the A34 bridge where the A4 crosses it.

Posted by: Brad Oct 1 2010, 12:22 PM

Well it is stockcross, i don't blame em!

Posted by: Bloggo Oct 1 2010, 12:24 PM

You are a bad man Brad.

Posted by: Iommi Oct 1 2010, 12:25 PM

There are also people with mental health issues, there are also people who are going through a bad patch and are treatable; not to mention the possibility of coercion or other fowl play, and then there are the relatives of the person to consider as well.

Hes' not alone.

Posted by: Rachel Oct 1 2010, 12:25 PM

Some of the responses on here have saddened me greatly. If we stop for one second to think how desperate that person must be feeling, perhaps the cries of "selfish so-and-so" would be reversed. Surely that person, stood on a bridge, considering leaving whatever their life has brought them, is not able to think straight enough to be considered selfish. Few people would begrudge someone that ill, a couple of hours disruption which they will have no idea they'll have created? Poor, poor person, they deserve pity & understanding, not shouts of "get on with it, you're in my way!"
Call me soft if you like, but I was in Sainsbury's (not Newbury) on Wednesday, & the sweet lady on the til had been saddened by something the previous customer had said (I think she'd been offered condollences). She carried on serving me, tears rolling down her cheeks, but smilling all the while. I silently passed her a tissue & a smile, paid & left, hearing a quiet "Thankyou" as I left. Perhaps some people here think I should have told her to pull herself together & hurry up before my frozen peas defrosted? Don't answer that.

Posted by: Andy1 Oct 1 2010, 12:36 PM

Sad Man more like

Posted by: Brad Oct 1 2010, 12:38 PM

A tissue, you offered a tissue.. Where was the hug? I'd have squished that old lady up in a loving hug, pinched her cheek whilst saying how adorable she was, patted her on the head and off id plod. I do hope it was a used tissue

Posted by: Bill1 Oct 1 2010, 12:51 PM

You're quite new on here aren't you?

We welcome people aboard but then hope they are the decent sort i.e. know when to have a laugh and when not.


One of my best friends had to cope with the suicide of his only brother and a cousin of mine was shot by a lad who then took his own life, so I know all about the tragedy of suicide and I doubt I'm the only one on here who does, so please think before you post.

This goes for others who have been less than sympathetic on here too.

Thank you.

Posted by: Simon Kirby Oct 1 2010, 12:55 PM

I don't want to feed this misanthropic trolling, but I feel obliged to say that I find some of the comments in this thread unacceptable.

Posted by: Rachel Oct 1 2010, 01:19 PM

Well, sometimes, silence speaks louder than words. please re-read what I wrote, you will see she appeared a gentle soul, &, not wishing to embarress her, a tissue & a smile seemed appropriate.

Appropriate....now there's a word with meaning, one which many might ponder.

Posted by: Jacklets Oct 1 2010, 01:35 PM

Well said - some of the comments on here are shameful. Having known two people who did, as well as a very close relative who didn't, but tried a couple of times - I know only too well the utter misery it can cause to all involved. So I hope that those too selfish to think beyond the inconvenience it may cause them will never have a loved one going through the sort of turmoil that person is today.

What hope is there for David Cameron's Big Society when this is the reaction of many to news of another human being in trouble?!

Posted by: Darren Oct 1 2010, 02:33 PM

I'd go further and say downright disgraceful.

Regardless of an inconvenience it may cause, you have a person, who could easily be a member of your family, in need. Mental illness in all it's forms, including depression, cause people of all ages, sex and creed do things that you and I call "irrational". They should not be something to be hated or despised but are in need of help, and if more people helped those less fortunate than themselves, the world would be a better place.

To those criticising, go back under your rock and have a good think about what you have said.

One day it might just be you up there in need.

Posted by: Roost Oct 1 2010, 05:48 PM

I have seen a lot of people who need help in many ways.
I have experienced families and persons who are suffering, again in many different ways and for a variety of reasons.


As has been posted by the (apparently few!) remaining sensible people on here, certain comments made I find unacceptable, insensitive and beyone the point of jokes.


Please, please think before you type.

Posted by: Chesapeake Oct 1 2010, 06:57 PM

I am totaly stunned!!!

The dreadful, disgusting and quite frankly inhumane comments posted on this site today by those who obviously don't have an ounce of compassion in their bodies should be removed! In fact I think that the posters themselves should be removed from this site!

People who wish to commit suicide by such drastic means are not thinking rationally and they certainly wouldn't be thinking about a small amount of inconvenience to the people who are caught up in their pain. Something that has happened to them or a situation that they find themselves in is SO incomprehendably awful that they cannot see a way forward or any other way to escape from their pain.

I hope that the selfish people who have made such thoughtless comments on here re-read their posts and go to bed tonight knowing that their views have shocked and outraged normal, good, kind, caring people and I hope that it causes them pain and an enormous amount of shame! Then, maybe, they will experience a minute fraction of the pain that the poor man was feeling and also the pain that the people who surrounded him because of their jobs or because of their relationship with him will have felt today and for the indefineable future.

I wish that man all of the best that is in this world so that he will be able to see that there ARE beautifull things in this world and thee ARE beautifull people around him who only want the best for him. X

Posted by: DrPepper Oct 2 2010, 07:17 AM

I think there is a bit of over-reaction here with many a bleeding heart wishing to take the moral high ground. I think what has been said, and I agree with, is that this person was probably just seeking, and enjoying, the attention with no intention of suicide at all. In which case is was a very selfish act. If it was a genuine suicide attempt then why stand on a bridge during rush hour waiting for police etc to arrive. If your going to do it you will do it, I wonder just how long they stood there before anyone turned up - must have been at least twenty minutes.

Posted by: On the edge Oct 2 2010, 08:47 AM

Thanks DrPepper. Balance and reason.

Posted by: Iommi Oct 2 2010, 09:03 AM

I don't believe anyone yet is qualified to comment on the motives of this individual. I think the response to the objectionable posts on here speak for themselves.

Why can't you and others see that there could be 'collateral damage' in all this? This isn't just down to the welfare of this person (who could be mentally ill for all we know; he has been sectioned), what about the feelings of any possible friends or relatives in circumstances like this?

As for 'balance and reason'; DrPepper's post is full of assertions. That's not balance and reason. And even if it is 'just an attention seeker', what difference to the process does that make? He could be an 'attention seeker' who makes a mistake.

Posted by: Andy Capp Oct 2 2010, 09:29 AM

Yes, things can't be that OK for someone who goes to such lengths to seek attention. I don't see that as the actions of a rational person. As previously said, what about the people who might know him, or his dependants?

Posted by: DrPepper Oct 2 2010, 12:14 PM

No more so than those supporting/sympathising this person.

Posted by: On the edge Oct 2 2010, 12:37 PM

Sorry, just don't understand this response.

Posted by: Richard Garvie Oct 2 2010, 01:24 PM

There is no doubt that some people use attempted suicide as a cry for help. But in some cases people actually do want to end their lives. I'd like to think if it was anyone I knew on that bridge, people would do everything they could to stop the situation ending in death.

Posted by: Iommi Oct 2 2010, 02:23 PM

But no one is claiming the other posts are. OTE considered your post balanced and rational because he agrees with you, not because it was. Your opinion was assumptive and one sided; that is neither balanced nor rational. Whether anyone else's point was is immaterial, but at least they might be compassionate.


That explains a lot, but I can't see there is anything difficult to understand in it. I'm explaining that with any incident, consideration for welfare extends beyond the protagonist. There are a number of issues that are being ignorantly over looked by the 'let him jump', or 'he doesn't mean it' club.

I think you know full-well what I mean and you are just being deliberately obtuse.


Exactly, and the police did everything they could to ensure that outcome. It is just regrettable that with have some people with such a narrow minded attitude about matter like these.

Posted by: DrPepper Oct 2 2010, 03:40 PM

Why is it immaterial if opposing views are not balanced or rational, but highly relevant that mine aren't (I agree mine are wholly one sided, its what makes for a debate) - you can't have it both ways. To be fully supporting what could be deliberate action to cause chaos is not balanced or rational.

Because...... same situation bought Birmingham to a virtual standstill on Thursday, could this be a new way of disrupting our infrastructure? http://www.expressandstar.com/news/2010/09/30/birmingham-city-centre-gridlock-as-man-threatens-to-jump-from-paradise-bridge/

Posted by: Iommi Oct 2 2010, 03:55 PM

I have already explained that no-one was saying that anyone was being B&R, except OTE towards your post. He made the claim that your post was B&R; I believe that to be simply not true.

In my view though, the sympathisers are being more 'human', and that makes up for any possible indiscretion in my view. Even if this person was simply seeking attention, that person was still a risk to himself, although doing something like he seems to have done (it has not been revealed what), doesn't sound like the efforts of a rational person.

Perhaps if there was any official news on the incident, we could speak with more authority.


What stupid thing to say. Who is supporting the actions of this person, what ever they might be?


Who knows, but to decide we would need to know the facts.

Posted by: DrPepper Oct 2 2010, 04:01 PM

Err you, jacklets, darren, roost - need I go on.

As you say we don't yet know the details - so my views are just as valid and possible correct as yours might be.

Posted by: Iommi Oct 2 2010, 04:03 PM

But that's b******s, so you have no need to go on. To understand someone, is not the same as to support someone. I understand why my mate's brother committed suicide, but I don't support it. I understand why someone might want to display a cry for help, but I don't support methods like in this topic.


Validity is not the issue; it is the lack of compassion that is lacking in yours and other posts that has upset people.

Like I said, for the umpteenth time, even if this person did not intend to take his life, it is still not the actions of a rational person. Notwithstanding that he could still possibly do something accidental.

Posted by: DrPepper Oct 2 2010, 04:15 PM

Fantastic and reasoned - if your argument falls down use a swear word.

I don't think I have shown any lack of compassion, I'm just not jumping on the "poor sole - look how understanding I am" bandwagon when they may well be very sinister reasons for this action. I have also not said at any point that I'm correct - just putting across a theory.

Posted by: Iommi Oct 2 2010, 04:28 PM

1 My argument hasn't fallen down.
2 I haven't used a swear word; perhaps you could explain where my argument fails?


Nor have I (although I believe it to be narrow minded; which implies half wrong), but I said I think OTE's opinion of yours is wrong. You lack compassion because your point of view fails to make provision for other people that might be connected with this person and what they might feel, let alone what the person might feel himself.

Posted by: DrPepper Oct 2 2010, 04:36 PM

Until we know who, what and why you can't show compassion on assumptions - not genuine compassion anyway.

Posted by: Iommi Oct 2 2010, 04:41 PM

I read that the bloke has been sectioned under the mental health act. That suggests it wasn't a stunt of a sane person. 'Normal' people don't tell the world they want to kill themselves (assuming that is what he suggested), on radio or TV.

Posted by: DrPepper Oct 2 2010, 04:44 PM

Thanks, can you point me towards a link for this info'. Generally attempted suicides do get sectioned as a first course of action though, and probably rightly so so they can be evaluated as to their mental state.

Posted by: Iommi Oct 2 2010, 04:51 PM

"Thames Valley Police have also confirmed that a man in his 40s has been detained under section 136 of the Mental Health Act."

http://www.newburytoday.co.uk/News/Article.aspx?articleID=14711


Of course, but for the squillionth time, 'normal' people don't do what this person did!

Posted by: DrPepper Oct 2 2010, 04:55 PM

Thanks, it'll be interesting to see if this is followed up.

For the 10th squillionth time I was offering an alternate view - no "normal" people don't this - troubled souls do, terrorist do, protester do (fathers for justice being a recent example), and probably others I can't think of right now

Anyway, my Saturday night awaits (yea X factor!)

Posted by: On the edge Oct 2 2010, 05:09 PM

Have you any other mode than boorish? Isn't anyone able to have a different view point to yours? Are contributors here meant only to subscribe to your own understandings? Makes coherent debate impossible.

I agreed with DrPepper because I thought he was right and his points were grounded. Unlike the attached which is just emotional.

Posted by: Iommi Oct 2 2010, 05:22 PM

That depends on who you are, but more importantly: what you say.


Where have a said people shouldn't post contrary opinion?


I don't know if they are meant to or not; I couldn't care less. As you imply, this is a forum for debate and opinion, so is likely to have contrasting points of view, so when people do that I will sometimes reciprocate.


Perhaps it makes coherent debate impossible when one subscribes to a weak argument?


And I think you are wrong that his argument was B&R; it was not. Had you said 'I agree', I couldn't have argued that you were wrong, but you offered an argument that I think was. As for emotional; that plays a part, but it is feeble of you to say it is just emotional. DrPepper had a view that we were 'bleeding hearts' and you agreed, so that must mean I am entitled to reply, does it not?

I have posted opinion fortified with arguments. I am happy to engage in sensible debate, but frankly some people on here seem incapable of that. I know you are a bright bloke, but to just post 'sorry, just don't understand this response', is, as I said, feeble in my view.

PS - While I am boorish on occasion, I think it is unfair to accuse me of being boorish on the post you quoted. I will, however, apologise for any rudeness, but I think you are being deliberately obtuse when you say you don't understand my points.

People are focusing on the individual (who we assume threatened to attempt to commit suicide), but I think that is being ignorant of other people's feelings in this matter.

Posted by: Chesapeake Oct 2 2010, 06:06 PM

Iommi, I fully agree with most of your argument on this subject and I bow to your intelligent responses. However, please forgive me if I am a little picky here in your comment about "normal" people not doing this sort of thing. People who commit or attempt to commit suicide are quite often 'normal' people who have come to a period in life, for whatever reason, that they can no longer cope with. It could be that they are the normal, regular, family man, next door who cleans his car on a Sunday but due to the current economic crises has been made redundant and does not want to face up to the fact that he can no longer look after his wife and children in the way that they had became used to. There are many reasons for suicide. Some have obvious mental health issues, some have hidden from depression for years and some just don't think that they are good enough to carry on living. But who is to say that they are not normal?

Even someone who is deliberately seeking attention in this way has such pain in their lives that they do not know how else to ask for help. Humans are filled with many different emotions and that is one of the things that makes us unique on this planet. Thank goodness for variety otherwise we would not have such an interesting forum. However, those who feel the need to be insensitive to anothers pain and trauma are, I believe, selfish and self obsessed in this situation. What a luxury for them that their only problem in situations like this is that they are slightly inconvenienced.

I am blessed with the courage to carry on and do the best that I can for myself and my children not matter what life throws at me and I cherish and appreciate that fact. I do however realise that I am not perfect and that I cannot expect to be as good or inteligent as others but I do not beat myself up about it. I am far from perfect and I am guilty of many things but hopefully not of being uncaring as others on here seem to be.

Posted by: On the edge Oct 2 2010, 06:08 PM

You are quite right my original response was feeble and yes, of course I understood. Was in the heat of the moment - simply I think this thread is about too things - 1) the Police shutting down trunk roads. and 2) suicides and mental health. We've been concentrating on just the second part. I suspect that's what you've been saying.

Anyway - I'm sorry too and will try not to be obtuse in future!

Posted by: Iommi Oct 2 2010, 06:13 PM

Oh OTE...now you make me feel nasty...!

Posted by: Darren Oct 2 2010, 06:43 PM

From earlier this year

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1287049/Man-agonising-skin-condition-leapt-death-motorists-yelled-jump.html

Posted by: Iommi Oct 2 2010, 06:45 PM

Chesapeake, yes, when I say 'normal' people, that is to say it isn't normal for people to want to do these things, although it is normal to feel down, upset, etc. When I said 'normal' people don't do this, I was trying to explain that there must be something behind someone wanting to do this. To say someone is being selfish is true in one sense, but it over-looks many things that include what you posted. People don't usually wake-up and think, 'what shall I do to day: wash the car, do the garden, go shopping and on the way back pretend to attempt to commit suicide'.


i.e. I know exactly what you mean Chesapeake.

Posted by: Bill1 Oct 2 2010, 07:23 PM

Who's jumping on the bandwagon you quote Dr Pepper.

I understand how inconvenient these types of delay (like any delay) are, it's the comments made about a fellow human being (who we nothing about) that shocked and upset me.

Posted by: DrPepper Oct 3 2010, 10:17 AM

Who's bandwagon jumping? All those who after the first post came out with psuedo sympathy for a person no one here knows doing something for a reason no one here knows. That is the balance that needs re-dressing with a little bit of realism rather trying to score a brownie point for being the most caring person on this forum.

I don't know the details - hence why I posted a few alternatives to what may or may not have happened.

No one on here knows the details - but many have blindly taken things at face value and slated others for being maybe a bit more open minded with the ability to think for themselves.

To say it again - NO ONE HERE KNOWS - so all opinions are surely equally as valid.

Something to ponder - all you caring types showing sympathy, would you still be so sympathetic if a relative needed an ambulance and it couldn't get to them in time because of this selfish act?

Posted by: Darren Oct 3 2010, 10:49 AM

You and I clearly have a totally different definition of "being maybe a bit more open minded"



Motorways have hard shoulders for just this sort of thing.
Ambulances can be deployed from multiple location
Wiltshire has a very good and capable Air Ambulance

Posted by: Iommi Oct 3 2010, 11:05 AM

You and others had already made up their minds what happened. It was only when your rather ignorant point of view got exposed by the reaction, did people like you moderate their language. 'Brownies points' is crap, it was revulsion at some people's almost inhumane point of view.

Posted by: DrPepper Oct 3 2010, 11:30 AM

Eh, its you who has already made up your mind that is was a suicide attempt. I have come up with two or three alternatives - to which you have added nothing, you just bang on about it being a troubled person with mental disability - which is just your theory at the moment with no evidence to back it up. And no, there is no evidence to back up my theories either - that is what makes them theories in the first place!

I'm done with replying to your post on this subject now as I don't know what happened, you don't what happened and you seem incapable to debate beyond your own narrow minded point of view.

Posted by: Strafin Oct 3 2010, 11:31 AM

My main issue with this whole thing is the length of time the roads were closed for. Of course people lose patience - can you imagine sitting stationary on a motorway for four hours? I don't know who it is who should be charged with helping people who find themselves in this position, but perhaps that is waht needs looking at. The man was obviously not thinking straight, whether he was ill or not and we could all end up in that position. So let's not blame him totally, the police should have done a better job of removing the stiuation, but is it really their job to talk down potential jumpers? And what got thge guy so incensed that he ended up there in the first place? Maybe we should be blaming whoever made him feel like this was a good move? Either way I can understand peoples frustration, this took far too long to sort out, but at least it didn't result in a needless death.

Posted by: Iommi Oct 3 2010, 12:56 PM

Narrow minded! It is you that decided that if it was suicide and that if the the person didn't finish the job, he couldn't have meant it and was just attention seeking!!! It was others that recognised that there could be any number of issues at play.

I can debate, it is only you ignore totally all that surrounds the issue, like the feelings of the person's friends, relatives and dependants. I have constantly maintained we don't know what happened, but that doesn't remove the fact what some people's automatic response to this was, including yours.

Of course it was a regrettable incident, I don't think any one is denying that, it is just that we were talking about someone's life here and comments like 'he couldn't have meant it' is overlooking the whole issue.

Posted by: On the edge Oct 3 2010, 03:47 PM

I think that's the nub of this particular issue. Lets forget the cause - just for the minute. For many other reasons - we often see the whole road shut for what seem like extended periods. OK accept that after and during 'an incident' things have to be done. However, that shouldn't be a surprise and as it happens frequently, there should be some contigency plans. Rapid implementation of temporary one lane working, diversions to other routes etc. etc. Rather more information on the Radio would help those upcoming, who might be able to take evasive action if they knew - BBC local are particularly bad. Its not just the Police, the Highways Agency have some responsibilities too.

Posted by: Darren Oct 4 2010, 01:18 AM

When it comes to "talking down" someone who is suicidal, the police are not the people for the job by any stretch of the imagination. The problem is, they are 99.99% of the time, the first to arrive on scene. You ideally need someone who is trained and has experience in such dialogue. While the police do have trained negotiators available, there are very few of them and work as either civilian staff or are normal patrol officers. Wiltshire is a large, mostly rural force meaning the nearest trained negotiator is many miles away.

When an officer opens a dialogue and gets to a point of being in a conversation, they are pretty much committed to that job until it is resolved - however it may end. The key thing here is trust. Whoever opens the dialogue starts to build a relationship where trust is the keystone. What you cannot have a situation where a level of trust has been built between 2 people and because that person is not a trained negotiator, they are pulled off and replaced. The trust has instantly been lost and the suicidal person will immediately feel abandoned and betrayed by someone who they trusted. This can be all they need to take that final step.

Forget what you seen on television and in films where the hero grabs them and pulls them to safety. This is a very dangerous thing to do. They could easily take you with them.

The motorway was closed in both directions as you cannot anticipate where they might jump. If they are in an agitated state, they may move along the length of the bridge before making their mind up. It's not only the person on the bridge you have to consider but the poor driver they land in front of. The fall may not kill them, but being run over may well do. Operating a single lane also opens the danger of some idiot shouting "jump" as they pass, and going by some of the comments here, that is a real possibility.

The article does say it was closed at J14 and 15 so there was a diversion. Signing the diversion takes time to arrange as the lorry carrying the signs is usually stuck in the queues.

As they were detained under the Mental Health Act, this one ended on a positive note. Hopefully they are now receiving the help they need.

Posted by: Bloggo Oct 4 2010, 08:02 AM

For those that defend this mans right to disrupt the lives of thousands whether or not he was sane and just seeking attention or insane and likely to throw himself off or any other scenario , consider this.
How many people failed to get to a hospital or home of someone who was dying in time to say goodbye.
How many people missed a funeral of a loved one.
How many people missed important meetings that may affect their future.
How many people missed their flight, etc etc etc.

The amount of pain and suffering that this act of selfishness caused to maybe hundreds of people is indefensible and whayt is more is that I and others have the right to say it.

Posted by: DrPepper Oct 4 2010, 08:20 AM

How can you say that, you uncaring, selfish, sub-human low life you. This poor poor person was so deeply troubled that it's only right he should disrupt the lives of thousands and risk the lives of others. Go take a good look at yourself and don't post on here again until you have joined the PC brigade and repented you sins and have more rational thoughts that won't offend anyone

Posted by: Bloggo Oct 4 2010, 08:33 AM

After following your rather convoluted argument again it occured to me that had the police known about your debating skills they could have asked you to talk the man down.
I would have thought that after 10 minutes of listening to you he would have either jumped or run for it.

Posted by: DrPepper Oct 4 2010, 08:38 AM

Saying that I have noticed a couple of regulars on this forum seem to be missing lately...............

Posted by: Iommi Oct 4 2010, 09:56 AM

Who is defending the person's right to disrupt lives? I think it is an utterly regrettable incident.


Quite!

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Oct 4 2010, 12:28 PM

Bloggo etc at work??

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/7016267/DJ-Steve-Penk-plays-Van-Halens-Jump-as-woman-leaps-from-bridge.html

Posted by: Bloggo Oct 4 2010, 01:05 PM

Thanks for that.

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Oct 4 2010, 03:01 PM

No worries Bloggo - We have to laugh at ourselves sometimes. Like you I don't understand 'jumpers'. I especially feel sorry for train drivers in regard to this.

Posted by: Chesapeake Oct 4 2010, 04:48 PM

Hmmmm.....lack of understanding, lack of compassion, irresponsible and in very poor taste!!!!! Reminds me of certain people.....? Can't think who????

Thanks TDH, it's just a shame that some posters on here seem to think their comments are justified.

Posted by: DrPepper Oct 4 2010, 04:51 PM

Aww, don't worry cheapskate no one holds your opinions against you

If we all agreed these forums would be empty.

Posted by: Strafin Oct 4 2010, 07:23 PM

I agree, I don't think I'm totally without compassion and understanding, this suicide attempt could have been done elsewhere without all the disruption and still got the attention the man needed.

Posted by: GMR Oct 4 2010, 07:41 PM

That depends what you mean by justified? We all have different points of view and forums are ways of debating those differences.

PS I've only read backwards to your post, so I don't know what the other poster said for you to disapprove of; so I neither agree nor disagree to what you were replying to. Just in case I get accused of agreeing with a bad tasted comment (if it was a bad tasted comment).



I am sure if push comes to shove you'll remember

PS Maybe this post has jogged your memory? Don't thank me, just look at it as a public service for a very kind and treasured forum member. I can be good like that (some call it my generous side... some would say something else)

Posted by: GMR Oct 4 2010, 07:44 PM

That is true; the Chinese have a word for it; yin and yang (two actually). Without both you've got nothing, other than loneliness.

Posted by: Darren Oct 4 2010, 11:36 PM

Ahh. Like sweet and sour?

Posted by: Bloggo Oct 5 2010, 07:31 AM

It is a shame that you can only see one side of the argument and demonstrate a rather blinkered view.


I see you are someone else who thinks that they are the only ones with an opinion and those that disagree should remain quiet. Not healthy in a democracy.

Posted by: pinkfluffyclouds Oct 5 2010, 08:06 AM

I have read all the posts on here and see all points of view. I don't think you can actually commit suicide without it affecting other people – the bridge you jump off affecting traffic - the train or tube you jump in front of causing the train driver to probably have nightmares for the rest of his/her life – the hose through the window – someone has to find you when you have done the deed. However you do the deed it affects other people. I have never felt so strongly that I wanted to end my life but have had mental health problems which were not really understood by family and friends so I do have some empathy for those that are that troubled and surely not thinking logically. Maybe it was a spur of the moment thing walking across that bridge and he just suddenly thought hey here is a good place to end it all. We just don’t know.

The suiciders (I know not a word) I have BIG problems with are those that are very calculating in their actions and will wipe out their entire family before then taking their own lives. Those are the selfish ones. !!

Posted by: DrPepper Oct 5 2010, 08:33 AM

The trains point is a good example, just look at the loss of live caused by the Ufton Nevert crash. Whatever you state of mind there is no need for this - just stand in front of the train if you need to. Do the bleeding hearts here have the same sympathy and sorrow for this troubled soul? Personally I despise this person and my sympathy went out to the totally innocent people who did unwillingly loose their lives that night.

Posted by: Iommi Oct 5 2010, 08:40 AM

What a load of utter rubbish!!! Who said you are not entitled to your opinion? We just 'despise' it, that's all.

Posted by: Iommi Oct 5 2010, 08:47 AM

I'd rather someone suggests they seek help.


You would despise as it seems your heart of full of hate and vengeance. My sympathy goes out to all concerned and affected. It was a horrendous event, one that I actually missed by virtue of him deciding to 'use' the same train going in the opposite direction, I believe.

I am just grateful that I am presently not in the same frame of mind as anyone that would do such a thing, notwithstanding all those bereaved from such an event.

Posted by: Chesapeake Oct 5 2010, 08:55 AM

On the contrary. I may not have the same opinions as others on here but I love to read what others think. I nearly always learn something and I think that healthy debate increases my knowledge (which I much need) and creates interesting and enjoyable moments to my day (also much needed). What I find hard to understand is when peoples point of view is damaging and disturbing as in this particular dabate.

Being frustrated because of the inconvenience caused I can understand, to a point. But, in this case to show such lack of compassion for a fellow human beings pain and distress is far more selfish as your state of mind is at an apparent "normal" level. Or maybe not!!

Posted by: Chesapeake Oct 5 2010, 08:57 AM

Totally agree Iommi.

Posted by: GMR Oct 5 2010, 04:38 PM

Exactly, but sweet and sour also depends on ones taste puds.

Posted by: GMR Oct 5 2010, 04:40 PM

Good points and a good post.

You are getting there

Posted by: Bloggo Oct 6 2010, 08:16 AM

I do understand your position and appreciate that this person has issues that he was unable to deal with and maybe he did not consciously make the decision to cause the mayhem that he did.
However the fact remains that many people will have had their lives disrupted, some in quite a serious manner. Someone could have possibly died because they could not get to hospital in time or been involved in a serious accident as a result of this incident. My compassion is for the pain and distress of the many, not the one.
I find it pretentious and arrogant that you hold yourself as judge of what is normal or not.

Posted by: dannyboy Oct 6 2010, 08:41 AM

A bit Daily Mail. Were house prices affected too?

Posted by: Iommi Oct 6 2010, 09:12 AM

Do you have an opinion of what is 'normal' or not?

Posted by: Bloggo Oct 6 2010, 09:33 AM

Oh what a wag. Got anything pertinent to say?

Posted by: Bloggo Oct 6 2010, 09:36 AM

Yes, but I would not wish to classify others by it.

Posted by: Iommi Oct 6 2010, 09:41 AM

Why not, it is just an opinion? She was simply explaining that it is easy to criticise others of irrational behaviour when one is rational. It is what is at the heart of this debate.

Posted by: Bloggo Oct 6 2010, 09:49 AM

I understood what she said.
Why do you think it necessary to reply on her behalf, I'm sure she is capable of giving me her view herself.

Posted by: Iommi Oct 6 2010, 10:11 AM

Because I want to. Because I thought it was an important point and a point that you consistently overlook, ignore, or don't care about.

Posted by: GMR Oct 6 2010, 04:30 PM

Rule of thumb; anybody on here isn't normal. The rest......

Or should that be the other-way around?

Posted by: Chesapeake Oct 6 2010, 05:04 PM

Bloggo, I do apologise. It's seems that you have taken offense to my suggestion that you are "normal". I will not do it again, I promise!

As for Iommi agreeing with my posts, surely it his his right to agree to them and to defend his opinion and mine. Isn't that what forums and debates are all about?

Posted by: GMR Oct 6 2010, 05:07 PM

I would take offense if somebody called me 'normal.'

Posted by: Chesapeake Oct 6 2010, 05:14 PM

Don't worry Glenn, it will never happen.

Posted by: GMR Oct 6 2010, 05:17 PM

Well, it hasn't happened yet... so i must be on the right path. And it seems my psychiatric team also concurs (I wonder if that was why they've increased my medication?).

Posted by: Biker1 Oct 6 2010, 09:09 PM

More disruption on the trains tonight as a man threatened to jump on the tracks from some scaffolding just outside Paddington Station.

Most trains delayed some cancelled.

Posted by: gel Oct 7 2010, 06:46 AM

Explanation following complaints from TVP

http://www.newburytoday.co.uk/News/Article.aspx?articleID=14739

Police seem to adopt this approach too often even after minor shunts, and too often
cone off lanes whilst they investigate some car accidents, rather than get Highways Agency to clear carriageway asap.

I'm sure many of us will have witnessed that sort of event especially when using M/Way network ie one lane left open and rest shut.

Rot started when that nutter N Wales Chief Constable (Brunstrom) decreed that all fatalities
on highways have to be treated as crime scenes, and all that entails re gathering evidence, so that's carte blanche to cause maximum inconvenience.
All right for them, they're already at work!

Posted by: Darren Oct 7 2010, 07:37 AM

Perfectly reasonable too. Where there is a fatality, a full investigation must take place so that if there is a prosecution for Death by Dangerous/Careless Driving, there has been a proper investigation. This means taking photos, measurements, examining the carriageway for defects, ensuring that vehicle parts are recovered, so on ans so forth. The recovery takes longer too as the wheels on the vehicles must not be turned to ensure everything is the same as at the scene.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/glasgow_and_west/8549199.stm

Good job they didn't just sweep up the glass and leave it at that.

Sheesh, some people.

Posted by: dannyboy Oct 7 2010, 08:17 AM

Aye, amazing isn't it?

Seems to me that the police should be sorting out crime - but only if it is crime that directly affects me & the sorting out does not get in my way!

Posted by: tom1 Oct 7 2010, 01:27 PM

I began to wonder with all the trouble caused to untold numbers of people just how long were the police prepared to keep that motorway closed. Granted the man had suicidal tendencies ,but surely thought must be given to this type of situation before another occurrence, with resultant delays.

Posted by: Darren Oct 7 2010, 01:30 PM

Solution?

Posted by: JeffG Oct 7 2010, 02:21 PM

I don't see how they could have reopened the motorway before they got him off the bridge. It's not just the life of one individual at stake, but if he did jump and landed on or in front of a moving vehicle there could have been untold carnage.

Obviously, the man's life is important, but it goes much further than that.

Posted by: DrPepper Oct 8 2010, 06:59 AM

Get one of this big blow up bouncy castle type thingies - used quiet a lot is the USA - then push the fool off, job done in what 45 - 60 minutes. Plenty of time left then to shed a tear and the more worthy of us to rush to his aid and make him "normal"

As for the trains, fit them all with a cattle guard and just sweep all the jumpers up - easy.

Posted by: JeffG Oct 8 2010, 08:55 AM

Well the Chinese jumper landed on an airbag. Presumably in this case if police approached from each end of the bridge so he was confined in the airbag area, it would be a viable solution. And if he saw jumping wasn't going to result in what he apparently wanted, he'd be more likely to give himself up on the bridge, anyway. Win win.

Posted by: Jayjay Oct 8 2010, 03:04 PM

Have only just got round to reading this post and am saddened. The pro jumpers truly believe that their meeting or Tesco shopping trip was worth a man's life. These posters have probably taken the same amount of time out of their busy, 'me I am so terribly important', little lives to complain on this forum, that they took sitting in that traffic jam. I am truly saddened at what so called humanity is coming too.

Posted by: Strafin Oct 15 2010, 06:20 PM

I don't think anyone is pro jumper, they are just questioning whether or not the HOURS of delay for thousands of people could have been prevented.

Posted by: spartacus Oct 15 2010, 06:26 PM

It should be standard practise to smear thick layers of anti-burglar paint or axle grease on the ledges of all motorway overbridges. That way, if there is a potential jumper who decides to climb on board, they slip straight off for a quick trip to the pearly gates........ None of this hanging around and creating a scene nonsense.... If you're going to do it..Do It!

Posted by: Strafin Oct 15 2010, 06:48 PM

OK maybe Spartacus is "pro jumping"!
What about thick sticky stuff that bonds them to the bridge so that they can't come off?

Posted by: NWNREADER Oct 15 2010, 07:13 PM

Did anybody note the report of a person who jumped/fell off a bridge onto the M25 the other day. Carriageway closed for hours, if only for the mess to be cleared up.
Any 'pro-jumpers' ever dealt with the remains of a body after it has been struck by a vehicle/train?

Posted by: spartacus Oct 15 2010, 07:54 PM

It's not purdee I'll grant you that.......

It helps if it's raining heavily so that the 'aftermath' gets washed away quicker. The days of the fire service turning up to all RTAs so that they were on hand to 'wash down' the area and sluice away the messy bits (those too small to put in bags) into the nearest drains afterwards, have long gone...

These days it's full body part recovery with all the painstaking H&S protective measures thrown in for the recovery crew. Body fluids aren't washed into drains. They spread absorbent materials down and shovel it into bags once it's done it's work.

Posted by: Iommi Oct 15 2010, 10:33 PM

...that reminds me, I have that half eaten kebab in the fridge from last night!