Thank you Network rail and Thatcham level crossing Options

[Biker1]

Thought I would put the record straight in here rather than start another TLC thread!
In the report "Bridge at Thatcham is one too far"article today on the web site there is the statement "Stopping trains currently activate the level crossing barriers when they are four minutes from the station, with fast and freight trains two-and-a-half minutes and three-minutes 20 seconds respectively."
Trains do not activate the barriers at Thatcham Crossing. They are controlled and activated by the signaller at Colthrop Signal Box.
All full barrier crossings in the UK are, at present, operated by humans. They have to be!

[motormad]

I thought the crossing at Thatcham was Electronically controlled.

Learn something new..

[motormad]

I thought the crossing at Thatcham was Electronically controlled.

Learn something new..

[Andy Capp]

Trains do not activate the barriers at Thatcham Crossing. They are controlled and activated by the signaller at Colthrop Signal Box. All full barrier crossings in the UK are, at present, operated by humans. They have to be!

How does the Cothrop signaller know where the trains are?

[Nothing Much]

Like Tonto... puts his head on the track,
then sprints for the signal box when the Iron Horse starts to shake the rail!

[Biker1]

How does the Cothrop signaller know where the trains are?

Track circuits (now axle counters) relay where the train is.
Rings a bell in the box when a train enters that section warning that the crossings need to close and signals to clear.
Progress of train is shown on diagram above box controls. Also type of train and headcode is displayed giving signaller the correct timing of the lowering of the barriers.
See image.
Also you can see the cctv monitors etc.
 S7300776.JPG ( 93.57K ) Number of downloads: 19

(Bit of an old picture but best I could find of the box interior.)

[CrackerJack]

 S7300776.JPG ( 93.57K ) Number of downloads: 19

(Bit of an old picture but best I could find of the box interior.)

I get the impression when driving over Colthrop that the inside of the control box hasn't changed at all inside since that photo was taken and as a working environment it matches working in a Didcot museum piece....

Question for biker:
I was coming up to the Ufton Nervet crossing last week. The half barriers came down and literally 15 seconds later a 125 sped past. How come that crossing can have such a minimal delay? If the delay at Thatcham was reduced then there wouldn't be half of the complaints.

[Biker1]

Question for biker:
I was coming up to the Ufton Nervet crossing last week. The half barriers came down and literally 15 seconds later a 125 sped past. How come that crossing can have such a minimal delay? If the delay at Thatcham was reduced then there wouldn't be half of the complaints.

I think it may be a little more than 15 secs.
Ufton is an Automatic Half Barrier Crossing.
This type IS operated by the train as it approaches.
Unlike full barrier crossings it is not controlled by signals which will be clear (or off) as the train approaches even though the barriers have not yet lowered until the train is much closer.
AHBC's reliy purely that traffic has cleared the crossing and none has entered because of the lights, siren and barrier.
There is no cctv on this type of crossing.
Hence, because the full barrier type is controlled by signals, the barriers have to be lowered in sufficient time to clear them and not delay the train.
Volume of traffic is usually the deciding factor in which type of crossing is installed.
(Just as a bye - the crossing is just Ufton (or Ufton Crossing) - Ufton Nervet is the village some distance away.)

[Simon Kirby]

Thought I would put the record straight in here rather than start another TLC thread!
In the report "Bridge at Thatcham is one too far"article today on the web site there is the statement "Stopping trains currently activate the level crossing barriers when they are four minutes from the station, with fast and freight trains two-and-a-half minutes and three-minutes 20 seconds respectively."
Trains do not activate the barriers at Thatcham Crossing. They are controlled and activated by the signaller at Colthrop Signal Box.
All full barrier crossings in the UK are, at present, operated by humans. They have to be!

An informative post Biker. I'm surprised to hear the barriers are activated by a human, I would have assumed that it had been automated.

Off on a bit of a tangent - but has there been much development of automating the driving of the trains themselves? Google have an autonomous car and that's presumably a much more difficult prospect, so how about autonomous trains?

[Andy Capp]

An informative post Biker. I'm surprised to hear the barriers are activated by a human, I would have assumed that it had been automated.

Off on a bit of a tangent - but has there been much development of automating the driving of the trains themselves? Google have an autonomous car and that's presumably a much more difficult prospect, so how about autonomous trains?

Don't start, we have enough strike action to endure already!

[Andy Capp]

I was coming up to the Ufton Nervet crossing last week. The half barriers came down and literally 15 seconds later a 125 sped past. How come that crossing can have such a minimal delay? If the delay at Thatcham was reduced then there wouldn't be half of the complaints.

I find even the 2 or 3 minute delay for a HST isn't really a problem. The problem is when you have number of trains close to each other. Also the extra waiting time for a slow trains leaving Newbury takes quite a long time as do the 'earth movers'. Those Hanson trains often take over 4 minutes to go past.

I remember once sat watching an ambulance on 'blues and 2s' stopped at the crossing on the south side. I remember wondering whose night was being made worse by the decision to go that route.

Another thing, not only do we have major south Newbury developments coming on line - like Sandlford, which are bound to add to the traffic - but there is now a new development on the south-side of the crossing. So we have the prospect of people stopped to turn right which is going to cause the same problem that was partially solved by the north-side crossing road-layout improvements recently.

[Biker1]

Don't start, we have enough strike action to endure already!

[Biker1]

An informative post Biker. I'm surprised to hear the barriers are activated by a human, I would have assumed that it had been automated.

There are tests being made with object detection equipment on level crossings, but until then it takes a human to recognise if the crossing is clear in order to lower the barriers, or if someone is trapped.

Off on a bit of a tangent - but has there been much development of automating the driving of the trains themselves? Google have an autonomous car and that's presumably a much more difficult prospect, so how about autonomous trains?

Driverless trains are already used on short length, high intensity, low speed lines but their introduction on the UK network I think is a long way off, but no doubt will come.
In cab signalling, which can be used to directly control the train, is already in use in parts of the country but it will be a while, and after lots of investment, before it is in use nationwide.

[On the edge]

Great explanations Biker. Given the constraints, the fewer and fewer operational people still manage to do a very good job with ageing and outdated technology. Sadly, unlike most other nations, there is little hope for improvement in spite of the massive amounts of cash poured into the industry. Instead of investing in innovative, properly customer focussed engineering, we in the UK would rather make do and mend or produce pedestrian modernisations, designed to ensure rapacious executive salaries and bonuses are maintained. I can certainly understand why rail engineers are likely to be so demoralised and disenchanted that innovative design isn't even thought about. Our fault; a direct consequence of what we vote for.

[CrackerJack]

Our fault; a direct consequence of what we vote for.

I rather suspect that the controlling hands of the Union bosses have a significant influence over how much modernisation is permitted on our railways. When it comes to 'get what you vote for' then it's also Union member votes that count...

[On the edge]

I rather suspect that the controlling hands of the Union bosses have a significant influence over how much modernisation is permitted on our railways. When it comes to 'get what you vote for' then it's also Union member votes that count...

When even the Prime Minister suggests 'Britain needs a pay rise' we could conclude that Trades Unions have had their day. Most of their modern day disputes have a grounding of truth; it's just that they aren't media savvy; so inevitably get trounced.

Certainly for this particular issue, I don't think there is any remote connection between Trades Union activity and say the pedestrian penny pinching design of Reading Station, or the lack of an innovative solution to the Thatcham Level Crossing issue.

It surprises me that anyone would actually join a trades Union these days; considering their abject failure to deliver any real improvement to working conditions or prospects.

[On the edge]

Just an observation.

I've just come back from Southern France via SNCF and then Eurostar. SNCF is nationalised of course. However, the 2nd class seats we had were very comfortable, with little tables, sufficient leg room and a good amount of luggage space. There was a reasonably equipped restaurant and the 'facilities' worked and were reasonably clean. The comfort compared favourably with journeys I have to make in UK to Scotland, where a kind benefactor pays for 1st class. Of course, the French can fit less seats width ways in their carriages because they have a wider loading gauge... Ticket prices stand comparison and as to punctuality, the 6 hour journey ended in Paris within a minute of the advertised time.

Something wrong here surely?

[Nothing Much]

Daughter who was 8 months pregnant was due to go with a bunch of girlfriends to Turkey.
She was dubious about the whole flying thing with check ins, heat,food,I suggested Avignon by TGV. My wife and I enjoyed the experience some years before. Turned out to be a complete success. TGV had finished but SNCF did the job. No faffing around with terminals.
Now she has a got a new toy...8 month old Isabel. (Izzy)..crawling now. They are off to the Lake district-- erm by Audi RS5.
Can't win 'em all!
We took a tour round the ports by TGV and were in 1st class. It was packed with French people going on holiday.They like camping and it seems taking their clothes off as well(but not on the train)

[Biker1]

Just an observation.

I've just come back from Southern France via SNCF and then Eurostar. SNCF is nationalised of course. However, the 2nd class seats we had were very comfortable, with little tables, sufficient leg room and a good amount of luggage space. There was a reasonably equipped restaurant and the 'facilities' worked and were reasonably clean. The comfort compared favourably with journeys I have to make in UK to Scotland, where a kind benefactor pays for 1st class. Of course, the French can fit less seats width ways in their carriages because they have a wider loading gauge... Ticket prices stand comparison and as to punctuality, the 6 hour journey ended in Paris within a minute of the advertised time.

Something wrong here surely?

Interesting OTE.
What is wrong?
As you say, most of Europe's railways are nationalised.
BUT - look...........

Abellio (a subsidiary of Nederlandse Spoorwegen) operates Abellio Greater Anglia, Abellio Scotrail, Merseyrail and Northern Rail.

Arriva UK Trains (a subsidiary of Arriva, part of Deutsche Bahn) - operates Arriva Trains Wales, CrossCountry, Chiltern Railways, London Overground and Grand Central Railway.

Govia (a subsidiary of Keolis) operates Great Northern, London Midland, Southern, Southeastern and Thameslink.

DB Schenker (part of Deutsche Bahn) - largest rail freight operator in UK.

Plus, OTE, the French allow themselves to build new, high speed lines. (Which I presume you travelled on?) We tend not to!!

So yes, something is wrong??

PS - UK is now the safest rail in Europe. It's not all bad!

[On the edge]

Interesting OTE.
What is wrong?
As you say, most of Europe's railways are nationalised.
BUT - look...........

Abellio (a subsidiary of Nederlandse Spoorwegen) operates Abellio Greater Anglia, Abellio Scotrail, Merseyrail and Northern Rail.

Arriva UK Trains (a subsidiary of Arriva, part of Deutsche Bahn) - operates Arriva Trains Wales, CrossCountry, Chiltern Railways, London Overground and Grand Central Railway.

Govia (a subsidiary of Keolis) operates Great Northern, London Midland, Southern, Southeastern and Thameslink.

DB Schenker (part of Deutsche Bahn) - largest rail freight operator in UK.

Plus, OTE, the French allow themselves to build new, high speed lines. (Which I presume you travelled on?) We tend not to!!

So yes, something is wrong??

PS - UK is now the safest rail in Europe. It's not all bad!

Quite so.

This actually makes me very angry, because it demonstrates exactly what is wrong with our British attitude to Europe. I've tried to explain to both our present MP and his predecessor the stupidity of our present position.

It's blindingly obvious to most of us that there is just one reason a Business takes over another, particularly if the victim is in another Country. The nationalised German State railway is hardly going to do it for altruistic reasons. It's also hardly a fair market, any other private firm making a bid for the victim firm is actually bidding against State money. Similarly, our businesses can't make a bid for the State owned firms on the Continent, no matter how inefficient they are.

That's the EU for you! We always play by the rules and we always loose. Frankly, it's a wonder we have any rail service at all, given the cash that's been leeched away via payments to Continental state businesses, excessive executive salaries and bonuses not to mention 'lets pretend' leasing and other parasitic hanger on businesses. Trades Unions? Yes, to blame but only insofar as they let Toni Blair abolish clause 4, which simply needed reinterpretation.

We have the best safety record; which again recognises the innate skill and competence of the operational staffs in the face of political economic incompetence, inept regulation and executive greed.

NOTE - same thing can be seen in nuclear energy, where a French nationalised industry will design and operate our next generation of nuclear power stations. How cleaver is that? Perhaps we could get a private equity firm to launch a hostile bid for EdF.....!