New political parties?, What next for our broken system! Options

[On the edge]

If nothing else, the referendum result has generated some thoughts towards new political alignments; potentially new parties. We could end up with an American, two party centre left versus right split.

Apparently, there are a couple of dozen 'one nation/remain' Tories ready to take off because they are unhappy with the leadership ticket. LibDem Farron thinks LibDem is now a toxic brand; and would be better renaming themselves Democrats. That's because amongst other things he's expecting big Labour and Tory defections. Then, of course, the very unhappy 'new' Labour residue, likely to take shelter elsewhere.

On the other side, is it conceivable that now UKIP no longer has it's salesman at the helm, it will realise it's also a toxic brand and get back to Alan Sked's original real (Cobden / Bright) liberal 'small Government' roots. Perhaps facilitating a new grouping to attract the Adam Smith Thatcherites, the remaining real liberals in the Lib Dems.

Or will we just revert to same old, same old....

[user23]

If nothing else, the referendum result has generated some thoughts towards new political alignments; potentially new parties. We could end up with an American, two party centre left versus right split.

Apparently, there are a couple of dozen 'one nation/remain' Tories ready to take off because they are unhappy with the leadership ticket. LibDem Farron thinks LibDem is now a toxic brand; and would be better renaming themselves Democrats. That's because amongst other things he's expecting big Labour and Tory defections. Then, of course, the very unhappy 'new' Labour residue, likely to take shelter elsewhere.

On the other side, is it conceivable that now UKIP no longer has it's salesman at the helm, it will realise it's also a toxic brand and get back to Alan Sked's original real (Cobden / Bright) liberal 'small Government' roots. Perhaps facilitating a new grouping to attract the Adam Smith Thatcherites, the remaining real liberals in the Lib Dems.

Or will we just revert to same old, same old....

If Leadsom becomes leader of the Conservative Party and Corbyn remains leader of the Labour Party, it's almost certain we'll see a new pro-EU political party of the centre emerge.

[TallDarkAndHands...]

If Leadsom becomes leader of the Conservative Party and Corbyn remains leader of the Labour Party, it's almost certain we'll see a new pro-EU political party of the centre emerge.

What is the "centre" these days? I'm afraid whoever wins the Tory leadership contest has a penalty kick with no goalkeeper (labour) if they call a GE. I also think you would also have the lowest turnout in history for a GE.

[user23]

What is the "centre" these days? I'm afraid whoever wins the Tory leadership contest has a penalty kick with no goalkeeper (labour) if they call a GE. I also think you would also have the lowest turnout in history for a GE.

If there's a party running on a "Remain" ticket I think we'd see a high turnout.

[TallDarkAndHands...]

If there's a party running on a "Remain" ticket I think we'd see a high turnout.

That could cause a lot of trouble. We voted as a Country. Like it or not the result was a million plus majority for out. May will probably not trigger 50. That in itself is worrying.

[blackdog]

That could cause a lot of trouble. We voted as a Country. Like it or not the result was a million plus majority for out. May will probably not trigger 50. That in itself is worrying.

In two years time a million of the referendum electorate will have died and two million youngsters will have turned 18 - quite a change in the electorate. If the pollsters are right (okay, I'm stretching it a bit) this could result in a significant swing towards Remain.

[user23]

That could cause a lot of trouble. We voted as a Country. Like it or not the result was a million plus majority for out. May will probably not trigger 50. That in itself is worrying.

You might be right about May, so it could be years before we leave the EU, if at all.

There would be much more chance of us leaving sooner if Johnson and Farage had stuck around.

[TallDarkAndHands...]

In two years time a million of the referendum electorate will have died and two million youngsters will have turned 18 - quite a change in the electorate. If the pollsters are right (okay, I'm stretching it a bit) this could result in a significant swing towards Remain.

This may be negated by the fact that I knew lots of left wing leaning people at school who now they have worked for 20 odd years are more right wing than me. Odd. Or not? Young people generally vote on principals. Those principals get diluted as you get older and you realise the way of the world. 😞

[On the edge]

You might be right about May, so it could be years before we leave the EU, if at all.

There would be much more chance of us leaving sooner if Johnson and Farage had stuck around.

I'd go so far as to suggest that's the grand plan. Even if this debate continues for a few months, it will cool substantially. I'd hazard two alternatives, a) some sort of agreement is cobbled together which is a trade agreement aka a weaker Norway type thing or the EU itself makes some cosmetic changes that can be sold as a massive victory just before next election. All they have to do is wait.

[x2lls]

If nothing else, the referendum result has generated some thoughts towards new political alignments; potentially new parties. We could end up with an American, two party centre left versus right split.

Apparently, there are a couple of dozen 'one nation/remain' Tories ready to take off because they are unhappy with the leadership ticket. LibDem Farron thinks LibDem is now a toxic brand; and would be better renaming themselves Democrats. That's because amongst other things he's expecting big Labour and Tory defections. Then, of course, the very unhappy 'new' Labour residue, likely to take shelter elsewhere.

On the other side, is it conceivable that now UKIP no longer has it's salesman at the helm, it will realise it's also a toxic brand and get back to Alan Sked's original real (Cobden / Bright) liberal 'small Government' roots. Perhaps facilitating a new grouping to attract the Adam Smith Thatcherites, the remaining real liberals in the Lib Dems.

Or will we just revert to same old, same old....

Did you get all this stuff from media somewhere, or from your own head? Got any links?

[Biker1]

In two years time a million of the referendum electorate will have died and two million youngsters will have turned 18 - quite a change in the electorate. If the pollsters are right (okay, I'm stretching it a bit) this could result in a significant swing towards Remain.

Blimey!
A Million dead over 2 years?
Are things going to be THAT bad when we leave?

[TallDarkAndHands...]

Blimey!
A Million dead over 2 years?
Are things going to be THAT bad when we leave?

The remain camp will tell you so. It must be true! 😂

[newres]

Blimey!
A Million dead over 2 years?
Are things going to be THAT bad when we leave?

Director's suicides?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36757795

Interesting and how it looks to me:

"In all likelihood, whatever arrangements the UK eventually arrives at with the EU won't look very different from what we have at the moment.

Looking forward to TDH and his mates marching with their Union flags.

[On the edge]

Did you get all this stuff from media somewhere, or from your own head? Got any links?

It's simply a position I reached after looking at many sources, both on line, paper and face to face. I also strongly believe that the result of the referendum gives several very uncomfortable lessons to those who aspire to lead. I put the original post together after seeing yesterday's print Sunday Times; which was hinting at a 'democrat' formation.

That coupled with what seems to be a growing yearning for a better and more attuned political alignment amongst the thinking activists of all three major parties. In particular, because of my political leanings, I am fascinated by UKIP's development. Arguably many will think it's job is done; it isn't Farrage was a means to an end, if they go back to the vision.

Looking at things coldly, our problem today is the political system, because the main parties divide by social class/aspiration (Conservatives for the wealthy, Labour for the workers) the real political division ignored - big or small government.

Right now, all of the parties claim to 'represent and support the working man' and they do that with soap powder politics. It simply doesn't work.

[TallDarkAndHands...]

Director's suicides?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36757795

Interesting and how it looks to me:

"In all likelihood, whatever arrangements the UK eventually arrives at with the EU won't look very different from what we have at the moment.

Looking forward to TDH and his mates marching with their Union flags.

I'm not even going to bother replying to that. Shows you up for what you are.

[newres]

I'm not even going to bother replying to that. Shows you up for what you are.

You just did.

[On the edge]

Director's suicides?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36757795

Interesting and how it looks to me:

"In all likelihood, whatever arrangements the UK eventually arrives at with the EU won't look very different from what we have at the moment.

Looking forward to TDH and his mates marching with their Union flags.

Thanks for this.

In pure business terms that's spot on; we'll continue to trade with Europe just as we do today, come what may. And their conclusion, business leaders should hold their nerve and continue to invest in Britain.

So, one of our most influential business consultants is saying go with the result!

A good endorsement. I'd love to see the full analysis, which if I know how they work, would include an outlook for Remain. I have a sneaky suspicion it wouldn't be anywhere near as rosy. It's significant that it doesn't even rate a mention!

[newres]

Thanks for this.

In pure business terms that's spot on; we'll continue to trade with Europe just as we do today, come what may. And their conclusion, business leaders should hold their nerve and continue to invest in Britain.

So, one of our most influential business consultants is saying go with the result!

A good endorsement. I'd love to see the full analysis, which if I know how they work, would include an outlook for Remain. I have a sneaky suspicion it wouldn't be anywhere near as rosy. It's significant that it doesn't even rate a mention!

In order for it to remain the same, most analysts expect that free movement of labour will continue. That said, only an idiot would make a large investment which was predicated on free access to European markets. We have years of this to come. Even if it's all as they expect, the economy will suffer until the outcome is clear.

As for your "sneaky suspicion", well it's a bit meaningless.

[blackdog]

Blimey!
A Million dead over 2 years?
Are things going to be THAT bad when we leave?

1/2 a million died last year, and the year before that - we don't live forever.

[On the edge]

In order for it to remain the same, most analysts expect that free movement of labour will continue. That said, only an idiot would make a large investment which was predicated on free access to European markets. We have years of this to come. Even if it's all as they expect, the economy will suffer until the outcome is clear.

As for your "sneaky suspicion", well it's a bit meaningless.

About as meaningless as your dire predictions! Where did 'free movement of labour' pop out from all of a sudden?

Your gripe has been that our trade and industry is going to collapse, bringing with it our economy if we come out of Europe. The article you posted, from a very reputable consulting house actually says it won't!

Why don't you believe them?

By the way, a good few of the business wire services I have seen are saying exactly the same. Sure, all the upset political pundits and the pseudo intellectual media are peddling just the opposite; simply because they don't like being proved wrong. Rather like a number of Labour MPs.

And when it comes to our economic salvation, yes, we are going to have years of getting things back, but we'll be climbing up rather than walking down, as we were locked into the EU.

Hadn't you realised that the 'single market' means levelling every nation's economy to make it equitible. For us, that would mean levelling down.