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Newbury Today Forum _ Newbury News _ Still no Newbury tip pass yet

Posted by: Andy Capp Oct 2 2016, 10:25 PM

Great, still no pass for The tip! Any idea why this dumb scheme wasn't delayed?

Posted by: je suis Charlie Oct 3 2016, 05:27 AM

Got mine last week. Very sparkly! But it seems to me that the costs involved in production and distribution of said passes, plus the cost to monitor their use will surely obviate any cost savings?

Posted by: On the edge Oct 3 2016, 06:39 AM

QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ Oct 3 2016, 06:27 AM) *
Got mine last week. Very sparkly! But it seems to me that the costs involved in production and distribution of said passes, plus the cost to monitor their use will surely obviate any cost savings?


Well, speculate to accumulate. This is a very good test for differential access, so that service delivery is fair to us all. Probably the reasoning behind the fences round the kids area in Victoria Park and the idea of Wharf toilet charging. If you don't have your card, you either pay or you don't get in. Done properly, NTC customers would get a discount by showing their card when using the market. Greenham Parish will welcome this, because non Greenies will have to pay their way when the Control Tower opens. Why should we pay for others? It's only a few Hants residents getting upset; but if they think about it, they have to go to Basingstoke to change their library books or visit a museum.

Posted by: Andy Capp Oct 3 2016, 07:54 AM

QUOTE (On the edge @ Oct 3 2016, 07:39 AM) *
Well, speculate to accumulate. This is a very good test for differential access, so that service delivery is fair to us all. Probably the reasoning behind the fences round the kids area in Victoria Park and the idea of Wharf toilet charging. If you don't have your card, you either pay or you don't get in. Done properly, NTC customers would get a discount by showing their card when using the market. Greenham Parish will welcome this, because non Greenies will have to pay their way when the Control Tower opens. Why should we pay for others? It's only a few Hants residents getting upset; but if they think about it, they have to go to Basingstoke to change their library books or visit a museum.

I presume devolving waste disposal management this way adds cost to the country's tax payer.

Posted by: dannyboy Oct 3 2016, 08:01 AM

QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Oct 2 2016, 11:25 PM) *
Great, still no pass for The tip! Any idea why this dumb scheme wasn't delayed?



You do live in West Berks I take it?

Posted by: On the edge Oct 3 2016, 09:40 AM

QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Oct 3 2016, 08:54 AM) *
I presume devolving waste disposal management this way adds cost to the country's tax payer.


And why not? We want public services, we have to pay for them. After all, as I found recently, car parking charges are a bit cheaper in Basingstoke. These Hants. people can't have it both ways. We could, of course, have waste management run centrally; but that would inevitably mean a loss of admin jobs in the area, carrying on as we are now at least means we are maintaining, indeed even increasing, local employment.

As you've noticed, there has been some delay in getting the passes issued. However, given that the decision was only taken very recently; that any have been issued at all is a tribute to the hard work and effort by the administration. Resource is cut to the bone anyway because of the effect of last year's budget. For the Councillors and their senior advisers, it must have been a very difficult decision to make; not one we'd have much hope of solving.

And that's probably why we vote the same people into office every time we have a chance. Now perhaps we can concentrate our minds on a very serious issue; replenishment of grit bins, which needs to be done before Winter strikes; if it isn't, no one gets to the dump, pass or not.




Posted by: On the edge Oct 3 2016, 09:47 AM

Copied below from our patron's newspaper. If Hampshire people can do this, they can afford to put a recycling centre at Newtown or in the vicinity.




Tadley's youth centre, The Point, official opening

TADLEY’s new £900,000 youth centre is officially open after the ribbon was snipped by Basingstoke and Deane Borough councillor Marilyn Tucker (Con, Pamber and Silchester).

Also at the official opening of The Point, which is situated behind Tadley and District Community Centre, Newchurch Road, was Adrian Noad, the chairman of Tadley and District Community Association, which oversaw the project and manages both buildings.

Chairman of Tadley Town Council David Leeks was also there on the day in a show of support. The town council had provided some £160,000 of taxpayers’ money towards the project.

According to the community association, for every £1 contributed by Tadley council taxpayers, it has secured an additional £2.88 in grants or donations towards the project.

In an online statement, the association said The Point had proved an ambitious project.

“The land, that was purchased by Basingstoke and Deane Borough Council from Hampshire County Council for just £1, is likely to be land- locked in future years when houses are constructed on the adjoining former school site.

“To develop this site there was really the only one opportunity to ensure that a lasting legacy could be delivered for the area’s youngsters.

“The design of the building was inspired by the young people of Tadley themselves when they contributed to the feasibility study in October 2013.”

The doors of the youth centre were opened at the end of April, after months of setbacks and delays.

Eight years in the making, The Point began to take shape in August last year, ahead of an initial scheduled opening date in November.

The opening was put back until January this year, owing to a shortage of skilled craftsmen, in particular carpenters, to finish the construction of the timber building, which then slipped back further to April.

The new £900,000 community facility will be available to the area’s 11- to 19-year-olds from 4pm to 9pm on Mondays to Fridays, and includes a café area and meeting hall, equipped with pool tables, video games, music and free wi-fi.

Available to the wider community during the daytime and weekends, The Point features additional meeting rooms, a first-floor performance hall and a fully- equipped recording studio.

Funds for the building include: public works loan – £150,000; Turbury Allotment Charity – £300,000; Greenham Common Trust – £65,000; Basingstoke and Deane Borough Council – £182,300; and Tadley Town Council – £160,000.

Local businesses offering sponsorship and donations are still being sought, to fund furnishings and equipment. Volunteers for the café area are also needed.

For more details contact Tadley and District Community Association on (0118) 981 4538

Posted by: blackdog Oct 3 2016, 10:44 AM

QUOTE (On the edge @ Oct 3 2016, 10:47 AM) *
Copied below from our patron's newspaper. If Hampshire people can do this, they can afford to put a recycling centre at Newtown or in the vicinity.


Or they could save the money needed to create, staff and run a new recycling centre by paying WBC for the use of their existing sites.

Posted by: newres Oct 3 2016, 10:56 AM

QUOTE (On the edge @ Oct 3 2016, 10:47 AM) *
Copied below from our patron's newspaper. If Hampshire people can do this, they can afford to put a recycling centre at Newtown or in the vicinity.




Tadley's youth centre, The Point, official opening

TADLEY’s new £900,000 youth centre is officially open after the ribbon was snipped by Basingstoke and Deane Borough councillor Marilyn Tucker (Con, Pamber and Silchester).

Also at the official opening of The Point, which is situated behind Tadley and District Community Centre, Newchurch Road, was Adrian Noad, the chairman of Tadley and District Community Association, which oversaw the project and manages both buildings.

Chairman of Tadley Town Council David Leeks was also there on the day in a show of support. The town council had provided some £160,000 of taxpayers’ money towards the project.

According to the community association, for every £1 contributed by Tadley council taxpayers, it has secured an additional £2.88 in grants or donations towards the project.

In an online statement, the association said The Point had proved an ambitious project.

“The land, that was purchased by Basingstoke and Deane Borough Council from Hampshire County Council for just £1, is likely to be land- locked in future years when houses are constructed on the adjoining former school site.

“To develop this site there was really the only one opportunity to ensure that a lasting legacy could be delivered for the area’s youngsters.

“The design of the building was inspired by the young people of Tadley themselves when they contributed to the feasibility study in October 2013.”

The doors of the youth centre were opened at the end of April, after months of setbacks and delays.

Eight years in the making, The Point began to take shape in August last year, ahead of an initial scheduled opening date in November.

The opening was put back until January this year, owing to a shortage of skilled craftsmen, in particular carpenters, to finish the construction of the timber building, which then slipped back further to April.

The new £900,000 community facility will be available to the area’s 11- to 19-year-olds from 4pm to 9pm on Mondays to Fridays, and includes a café area and meeting hall, equipped with pool tables, video games, music and free wi-fi.

Available to the wider community during the daytime and weekends, The Point features additional meeting rooms, a first-floor performance hall and a fully- equipped recording studio.

Funds for the building include: public works loan – £150,000; Turbury Allotment Charity – £300,000; Greenham Common Trust – £65,000; Basingstoke and Deane Borough Council – £182,300; and Tadley Town Council – £160,000.

Local businesses offering sponsorship and donations are still being sought, to fund furnishings and equipment. Volunteers for the café area are also needed.

For more details contact Tadley and District Community Association on (0118) 981 4538

Interesting. But it makes me wonder why West Berks can't fund even basic community services but Basingstoke can?

Posted by: On the edge Oct 3 2016, 12:24 PM

QUOTE (blackdog @ Oct 3 2016, 11:44 AM) *
Or they could save the money needed to create, staff and run a new recycling centre by paying WBC for the use of their existing sites.


That's where the difficulty is Blackdog. Apparently, they can't although senior people from WBC have suggested just that. Inter Council working seems to make superficial sense, but past experience, when councils tried sharing admin shows it is ineffective, even if the rules made it possible. I think we can see that round here, there are often arguments and tussles between WBC and its own parish councils. WBC do at least try. The other big issue is that Reading might jump on that particular bandwaggon an exoect us in West Berkshire to cough up in respect of WBC residents living on the boarder. Where would it end?

Posted by: On the edge Oct 3 2016, 12:31 PM

QUOTE (newres @ Oct 3 2016, 11:56 AM) *
Interesting. But it makes me wonder why West Berks can't fund even basic community services but Basingstoke can?


Well, it may be because the subsidy they've been paying us for use of the dump until now has been too low. They also have a County Council which has funds as well.

Posted by: blackdog Oct 3 2016, 01:20 PM

QUOTE (On the edge @ Oct 3 2016, 01:24 PM) *
That's where the difficulty is Blackdog. Apparently, they can't although senior people from WBC have suggested just that. Inter Council working seems to make superficial sense, but past experience, when councils tried sharing admin shows it is ineffective, even if the rules made it possible. I think we can see that round here, there are often arguments and tussles between WBC and its own parish councils. WBC do at least try. The other big issue is that Reading might jump on that particular bandwaggon an exoect us in West Berkshire to cough up in respect of WBC residents living on the boarder. Where would it end?


Of course they could - they have been doing so for years. Of course they aren't going to provide an alternative local tip for Hants residents, it's all about cutting the budget - never mind the inconvenience and cost to the residents who will have to drive half an hour or more to get to a tip.

All in all I blame the Government.

Posted by: On the edge Oct 3 2016, 03:08 PM

QUOTE (blackdog @ Oct 3 2016, 02:20 PM) *
Of course they could - they have been doing so for years. Of course they aren't going to provide an alternative local tip for Hants residents, it's all about cutting the budget - never mind the inconvenience and cost to the residents who will have to drive half an hour or more to get to a tip.

All in all I blame the Government.


Can't be right; the Government, Basingstoke and WBC are all Tory. They must talk to each other and their LibDem coalition bedfellows who came up with the central settlement. The government are into localism, so they wouldn't be doing anything to damage that would they? So of this can have been a surprise to our local administrators. Yes, its an inconvenience but it keeps jobs in the district.

I'm sure if we saw the original business case for doing the subsidy with the other councils we'd all see that not recharging and just carrying on on a 'knock for knock' basis was not an option.

Let's face it lots of people come along the 339 from Basingstoke way, presumably all from Hampshire. I've even seen some coming down the other road laden with rubbish, again must be from Hampshire.

Our local political and financial experts have worked out that passes are the right way forward; we ought to trust the experts.

Posted by: Andy Capp Oct 3 2016, 06:12 PM

QUOTE (On the edge @ Oct 3 2016, 10:40 AM) *
And why not? We want public services, we have to pay for them.

Adds cost, to the cost that was there when there was a mutual agreement. In other words, more money is spent administering than would otherwise had been the case.

Posted by: On the edge Oct 3 2016, 09:19 PM

QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Oct 3 2016, 07:12 PM) *
Adds cost, to the cost that was there when there was a mutual agreement. In other words, more money is spent administering than would otherwise had been the case.


Surely that can't be the case, as you rightly say the scheme will need ongoing monitoring and enforcement at least. The existing transfer of monies must simply pay for the additional rubbish to be processed and no 'profit'. That means to us lay people, the new scheme seems all extra cost. The officials and politicos who came up with this must know that; which therefore means they'll have made a saving elsewhere, or managed to get a grant. I think, therefore, that the cost is negligible, otherwise the LibDem opposition would be making a huge fuss about it; protest marches and outbursts in the Council.

Posted by: spartacus Oct 3 2016, 10:40 PM

QUOTE (On the edge @ Oct 3 2016, 10:19 PM) *
.....otherwise the LibDem opposition would be making a huge fuss about it; protest marches and outbursts in the Council.

What.... ....with FOUR LibDem Councillors and 48 Conservatives?? Not the greatest of odds for a vocal and effective opposition to make themselves heard.

Posted by: On the edge Oct 4 2016, 06:41 AM

QUOTE (spartacus @ Oct 3 2016, 11:40 PM) *
What.... ....with FOUR LibDem Councillors and 48 Conservatives?? Not the greatest of odds for a vocal and effective opposition to make themselves heard.


....it only takes ONE!

Posted by: Andy Capp Oct 4 2016, 07:08 AM

QUOTE (On the edge @ Oct 3 2016, 10:19 PM) *
Surely that can't be the case, as you rightly say the scheme will need ongoing monitoring and enforcement at least. The existing transfer of monies must simply pay for the additional rubbish to be processed and no 'profit'. That means to us lay people, the new scheme seems all extra cost. The officials and politicos who came up with this must know that; which therefore means they'll have made a saving elsewhere, or managed to get a grant. I think, therefore, that the cost is negligible, otherwise the LibDem opposition would be making a huge fuss about it; protest marches and outbursts in the Council.

Yes, the beauty of our democracy is the rigorous scrutiny from the opposition.

Posted by: Washwaterman Oct 4 2016, 07:16 AM

I notice the Penwood tip is open for fly tipping and that's open 24 hours.

Posted by: Rdg Oct 4 2016, 08:28 AM

Didn't this whole debacle start because WBC decided it didn't want tocontinue paying a contribution to RE3 to allow West Berks residents in tielhurst and calcot etc to use the Reading tip. So RE3 brought in a permit scheme to identify Reading, Wokingham & Bracknell residenets for their tip (which has a cost not least the guys sat on the gate at Longshot lane and Whitley checking the passes), then Hants said to WBC "if you aren't paying RE3 why should we be making a voluntary contribution to you, so WBC have had to bring in a permit scheme for it's tips to ensure no Hants residents use them (and they need to upgrade the Padworth site for the extra volume coming from the West side of Reading to it now.

So as far as I can see WBC dont pay RE3 but don't get money from Hants and Reading, Wokingham, Bracknell and West Berkshire residents are all having to pay for a permit scheme and it's compliance which didnt exist before - please can someone point me to the overall saving to tax payers ?

Posted by: Berkshirelad Oct 4 2016, 08:34 AM

Perhaps there is an argument here that WBC (and others) are too small to be effective. Perhaps we could also save a lot of duplication of councilors' allowances and senior staff staff employment costs by merging the unitary authorities into one - we could call it Berkshire County Council!

BTW, is there anybody just in Hants who might like to 'rent' a WBC permit for a visit to the tip?

Posted by: Cognosco Oct 4 2016, 11:55 AM

QUOTE (Berkshirelad @ Oct 4 2016, 09:34 AM) *
Perhaps there is an argument here that WBC (and others) are too small to be effective. Perhaps we could also save a lot of duplication of councilors' allowances and senior staff staff employment costs by merging the unitary authorities into one - we could call it Berkshire County Council!

BTW, is there anybody just in Hants who might like to 'rent' a WBC permit for a visit to the tip?


My son has already loaned his permit to a couple of neighbors just over the border! rolleyes.gif

Posted by: On the edge Oct 4 2016, 02:38 PM

QUOTE (Rdg @ Oct 4 2016, 09:28 AM) *
Didn't this whole debacle start because WBC decided it didn't want tocontinue paying a contribution to RE3 to allow West Berks residents in tielhurst and calcot etc to use the Reading tip. So RE3 brought in a permit scheme to identify Reading, Wokingham & Bracknell residenets for their tip (which has a cost not least the guys sat on the gate at Longshot lane and Whitley checking the passes), then Hants said to WBC "if you aren't paying RE3 why should we be making a voluntary contribution to you, so WBC have had to bring in a permit scheme for it's tips to ensure no Hants residents use them (and they need to upgrade the Padworth site for the extra volume coming from the West side of Reading to it now.

So as far as I can see WBC dont pay RE3 but don't get money from Hants and Reading, Wokingham, Bracknell and West Berkshire residents are all having to pay for a permit scheme and it's compliance which didnt exist before - please can someone point me to the overall saving to tax payers ?


Who came up with such an incredibly stupid system in the first place?

Job creation at its worse, no wonder central government doesn't trust local government in the first place. The inter council dole system is exactly the inappropriate and unnecessary waste central governments have been seeking to abolish.

One might also ask why we have such expensive creatures as the District Auditors and Local Government Ombudsmen all the time nonsenses like this are perpetuated; without question.

The Pass System then, is only the latest manifestation of mis management in this area.


Posted by: On the edge Oct 4 2016, 02:46 PM

QUOTE (Berkshirelad @ Oct 4 2016, 09:34 AM) *
Perhaps there is an argument here that WBC (and others) are too small to be effective. Perhaps we could also save a lot of duplication of councilors' allowances and senior staff staff employment costs by merging the unitary authorities into one - we could call it Berkshire County Council!

BTW, is there anybody just in Hants who might like to 'rent' a WBC permit for a visit to the tip?


Some of us have been saying that for a few years now. It must be quite clear now that local government in the UK is an oxymoron, indeed, it's wholly unnecessary. Absolutely everything they are supposed to be responsible for would be better done and delivered by centrally appointed agencies. Yes, that also includes parish level councils, if residents in a particular locality think they need a collective voice, they would be quite free to set up a residents association.

Posted by: motormad Oct 8 2016, 05:06 PM

Regarding the tip and passes. Don't see the big deal.

Would you want waste from other large towns being disposed of in your local tip, given those large towns have their own tip?

It's not an awful idea. However as I found out recently you don't need a pass, driving license is fine as long as you live within the right areas.

Posted by: newres Oct 8 2016, 05:07 PM

QUOTE (motormad @ Oct 8 2016, 06:06 PM) *
Regarding the tip and passes. Don't see the big deal.

Would you want waste from other large towns being disposed of in your local tip, given those large towns have their own tip?

It's not an awful idea. However as I found out recently you don't need a pass, driving license is fine as long as you live within the right areas.

Woolton Hill isn't a large town.

Posted by: x2lls Oct 8 2016, 06:46 PM

QUOTE (motormad @ Oct 8 2016, 06:06 PM) *
Regarding the tip and passes. Don't see the big deal.

Would you want waste from other large towns being disposed of in your local tip, given those large towns have their own tip?

It's not an awful idea. However as I found out recently you don't need a pass, driving license is fine as long as you live within the right areas.



And there you have it. FFS, we all live on the same planet!!!

Posted by: Rdg Oct 8 2016, 09:34 PM

QUOTE (motormad @ Oct 8 2016, 06:06 PM) *
Regarding the tip and passes. Don't see the big deal.

Would you want waste from other large towns being disposed of in your local tip, given those large towns have their own tip?

It's not an awful idea. However as I found out recently you don't need a pass, driving license is fine as long as you live within the right areas.


Well this started with West Berks which covers all of Calcot and Tilehurst (parts of the large town Reading) deciding it did not want to pay RE3 (Reading, Wokingham & Bracknell's waste contractor) for those people to drop off waste in their own town - everything else stems from that

Posted by: On the edge Oct 8 2016, 09:40 PM

QUOTE (motormad @ Oct 8 2016, 06:06 PM) *
Regarding the tip and passes. Don't see the big deal.

Would you want waste from other large towns being disposed of in your local tip, given those large towns have their own tip?

It's not an awful idea. However as I found out recently you don't need a pass, driving license is fine as long as you live within the right areas.


I must admit, when I lived in Reading, I used to get p***** off with Newbury people using our Hospital!

Posted by: blackdog Oct 8 2016, 10:22 PM

QUOTE (Rdg @ Oct 8 2016, 10:34 PM) *
Well this started with West Berks which covers all of Calcot and Tilehurst

No it doesn't. Most of Tilehurst is in Reading.

Posted by: motormad Oct 8 2016, 11:41 PM

QUOTE (x2lls @ Oct 8 2016, 07:46 PM) *
And there you have it. FFS, we all live on the same planet!!!



Ummm, yes , but I'm sure you'd moan if everyone from another planet decided to turn up on your doorstep and dump their crap.


I just don't see the problem.
If you live in Reading using the Reading tip.
If you live in Newbury use the newbury one!

I do not know, and do not care, for intricate details, but as an overall scheme, restricting you to tipping in your most local tip, I see no issue with that.

Posted by: x2lls Oct 9 2016, 12:37 AM

QUOTE (motormad @ Oct 9 2016, 12:41 AM) *
Ummm, yes , but I'm sure you'd moan if everyone from another planet decided to turn up on your doorstep and dump their crap.


I just don't see the problem.
If you live in Reading using the Reading tip.
If you live in Newbury use the newbury one!

I do not know, and do not care, for intricate details, but as an overall scheme, restricting you to tipping in your most local tip, I see no issue with that.




You still don't get it.


There is no reason whatsoever for there to be a so called boundary based recycling/dumping scheme. The whole country shares the issue of waste and recycling so why on earth can't a nationally based scheme work? Jeez, we have a national tax system, we have national car registration, national loads of stuff.

Posted by: x2lls Oct 9 2016, 12:38 AM

QUOTE (On the edge @ Oct 8 2016, 10:40 PM) *
I must admit, when I lived in Reading, I used to get p***** off with Newbury people using our Hospital!



Like!!

Posted by: newres Oct 9 2016, 04:35 AM

QUOTE (motormad @ Oct 9 2016, 12:41 AM) *
Ummm, yes , but I'm sure you'd moan if everyone from another planet decided to turn up on your doorstep and dump their crap.


I just don't see the problem.
If you live in Reading using the Reading tip.
If you live in Newbury use the newbury one!

I do not know, and do not care, for intricate details, but as an overall scheme, restricting you to tipping in your most local tip, I see no issue with that.

If you live in Woolton Hill go to Basingstoke? It's absurd, it really is.

Posted by: Andy Capp Oct 9 2016, 06:14 AM

QUOTE (motormad @ Oct 9 2016, 12:41 AM) *
Ummm, yes , but I'm sure you'd moan if everyone from another planet decided to turn up on your doorstep and dump their crap.


I just don't see the problem.
If you live in Reading using the Reading tip.
If you live in Newbury use the newbury one!

I do not know, and do not care, for intricate details, but as an overall scheme, restricting you to tipping in your most local tip, I see no issue with that.

Because for many the nearest and most convenient isn't the one in your council district.

Posted by: Biker1 Oct 9 2016, 08:34 AM

QUOTE (x2lls @ Oct 9 2016, 01:37 AM) *
You still don't get it.


There is no reason whatsoever for there to be a so called boundary based recycling/dumping scheme. The whole country shares the issue of waste and recycling so why on earth can't a nationally based scheme work? Jeez, we have a national tax system, we have national car registration, national loads of stuff.

HMRC, vehicle tax, hospitals etc. are taxed nationally, whereas the funds for waste collection are taxed locally from the rates council tax I believe.
Is this where the problem lies?

Posted by: On the edge Oct 9 2016, 08:49 AM

QUOTE (Biker1 @ Oct 9 2016, 09:34 AM) *
HMRC, vehicle tax, hospitals etc. are taxed nationally, whereas the funds for waste collection are taxed locally from the rates council tax I believe.
Is this where the problem lies?


For the plodding book keepers that presently infest local government today, that's exactly the issue. This has been going on since the end of WW2 and it's now time we put an end this once and for all. No one likes post code lotteries, let's save money as well and have all our services delivered centrally via agents.

Posted by: spartacus Oct 9 2016, 09:30 AM

QUOTE (Cognosco @ Oct 4 2016, 12:55 PM) *
My son has already loaned his permit to a couple of neighbors just over the border! rolleyes.gif

My daughter lives just over the border and has used mine already

Posted by: user23 Oct 9 2016, 09:58 AM

QUOTE (On the edge @ Oct 9 2016, 09:49 AM) *
For the plodding book keepers that presently infest local government today, that's exactly the issue. This has been going on since the end of WW2 and it's now time we put an end this once and for all. No one likes post code lotteries, let's save money as well and have all our services delivered centrally via agents.
Be careful what you wish for.

The Government just removed the "postcode lottery" of local residents being able to choose whether they'd like to see fracking in Lancashire.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lancashire-37567866

Imagine this applied to all decisions and services.

Posted by: On the edge Oct 9 2016, 10:30 AM

QUOTE (user23 @ Oct 9 2016, 10:58 AM) *
Be careful what you wish for.

The Government just removed the "postcode lottery" of local residents being able to choose whether they'd like to see fracking in Lancashire.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lancashire-37567866

Imagine this applied to all decisions and services.


So what? I seem to remember a very large number round here didn't want the Vodafone development. Isn't the fracking issue a national issue; same reaction can be expected in any locality where it was proposed. In fact, this particular issue demonstrates why centralising things is actually fairer and better.

Posted by: user23 Oct 9 2016, 12:08 PM

QUOTE (On the edge @ Oct 9 2016, 11:30 AM) *
So what? I seem to remember a very large number round here didn't want the Vodafone development. Isn't the fracking issue a national issue; same reaction can be expected in any locality where it was proposed. In fact, this particular issue demonstrates why centralising things is actually fairer and better.
Blimey, that's a fairly contemptuous of local people's views coming from one of our local politicians there.

I take it you voted Remain then, as you think centralising things is actually fairer and better?

Posted by: On the edge Oct 9 2016, 12:50 PM

QUOTE (user23 @ Oct 9 2016, 01:08 PM) *
Blimey, that's a fairly contemptuous of local people's views coming from one of our local politicians there.

I take it you voted Remain then, as you think centralising things is actually fairer and better?


No, quite the reverse! I certainly hope I'm not a 'local' politician, and getting closer as made me even less inclined. Seeing things at close quarters brings them into sharp focus; if you do a dispassionate a analysis, the existing system is damaged beyond repair. Until we can get a mechanisim that delivers real local accountability, nothing will change. What real power does a local council have over any service it delivers? Where does the bulk of their money come from? What real difference in services is Joe Average wanting to see when he has a choice of house in different local authority areas? When we are scrabbling around for coins behind the sofa to pay for essential services, we really can't afford the comic opera going on between District and parish level councils.

Posted by: user23 Oct 9 2016, 12:54 PM

QUOTE (On the edge @ Oct 9 2016, 01:50 PM) *
No, quite the reverse! I certainly hope I'm not a 'local' politician, and getting closer as made me even less inclined. Seeing things at close quarters brings them into sharp focus; if you do a dispassionate a analysis, the existing system is damaged beyond repair. Until we can get a mechanisim that delivers real local accountability, nothing will change. What real power does a local council have over any service it delivers? Where does the bulk of their money come from? What real difference in services is Joe Average wanting to see when he has a choice of house in different local authority areas? When we are scrabbling around for coins behind the sofa to pay for essential services, we really can't afford the comic opera going on between District and parish level councils.
I take it you voted Remain then, as you think centralising things is actually fairer and better?

Posted by: On the edge Oct 9 2016, 02:51 PM

QUOTE (user23 @ Oct 9 2016, 01:54 PM) *
I take it you voted Remain then, as you think centralising things is actually fairer and better?


Quite the reverse. I voted Brexit to leave the stultifying, dead hand of the un representative self satisfied bureaucracy that epitomises the EU. Far from encouraging fairness, it's doing the opposite. The idea is great, the institutionalised incompetence isn't - get the picture?

Posted by: user23 Oct 9 2016, 07:13 PM

QUOTE (On the edge @ Oct 9 2016, 03:51 PM) *
Quite the reverse. I voted Brexit to leave the stultifying, dead hand of the un representative self satisfied bureaucracy that epitomises the EU. Far from encouraging fairness, it's doing the opposite. The idea is great, the institutionalised incompetence isn't - get the picture?
You said centralising things is actually fairer and better, yet you voted against it in the EU Referendum.

Can't have it both ways mate. biggrin.gif

Posted by: On the edge Oct 9 2016, 07:57 PM

QUOTE (user23 @ Oct 9 2016, 08:13 PM) *
You said centralising things is actually fairer and better, yet you voted against it in the EU Referendum.

Can't have it both ways mate. biggrin.gif


Of course I can. Get rid of unnecessary, expensive and incompentent bureacracy either side of our parliament. What's wrong with that? What properly focussed organisation hasn't done exactly the same.

Centralising things properly doesn't actually mean loss of democratic or indeed local input IF the organisation set up to deliver the service is created properly. After all, that's exactly what's happening with schools right now.

Odd, I thought you'd get that.

Posted by: user23 Oct 9 2016, 08:19 PM

QUOTE (On the edge @ Oct 9 2016, 08:57 PM) *
Of course I can. Get rid of unnecessary, expensive and incompentent bureacracy either side of our parliament. What's wrong with that? What properly focussed organisation hasn't done exactly the same.

Centralising things properly doesn't actually mean loss of democratic or indeed local input IF the organisation set up to deliver the service is created properly. After all, that's exactly what's happening with schools right now.

Odd, I thought you'd get that.
Centralising things would be giving more power to Brussels, not one of 28 regional parliaments taking back control.

What's happening with schools right now is http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-37589921.

Posted by: On the edge Oct 9 2016, 08:35 PM

QUOTE (user23 @ Oct 9 2016, 09:19 PM) *
Centralising things would be giving more power to Brussels, not one of 28 regional parliaments taking back control.

What's happening with schools right now is http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-37589921.


Sigh, no, now we have Brexit, centralisation will just give more power to Westminister, actually finalising a process already underway.

As for schools, yes, failures finish; what's wrong with that? Equally, 'close to going bust' is a million miles from actually doing so. Most competent organisations I know operate on a financial knife edge, very successfully, as the saying goes, every penny counts. Do you know any public sector finance officer who'd say in public he had enough money? laugh.gif

Posted by: user23 Oct 9 2016, 08:40 PM

QUOTE (On the edge @ Oct 9 2016, 09:35 PM) *
Sigh, no, now we have Brexit, centralisation will just give more power to Westminister, actually finalising a process already underway.

As for schools, yes, failures finish; what's wrong with that? Equally, 'close to going bust' is a million miles from actually doing so. Most competent organisations I know operate on a financial knife edge, very successfully, as the saying goes, every penny counts. Do you know any public sector finance officer who'd say in public he had enough money? laugh.gif
Sign, no, Brexit is exactly the opposite of centralisation.

Odd, I thought you'd get that.

Posted by: On the edge Oct 9 2016, 08:45 PM

QUOTE (user23 @ Oct 9 2016, 09:40 PM) *
Sign, no, Brexit is exactly the opposite of centralisation.

Odd, I thought you'd get that.


Don't you understand the concept of sovereignty? That's what Brexit is about. Like it or not, the majority in the Country are not internationalists. It's disenjenuous to suggest otherwise.

Posted by: user23 Oct 9 2016, 08:57 PM

QUOTE (On the edge @ Oct 9 2016, 09:45 PM) *
Don't you understand the concept of sovereignty? That's what Brexit is about. Like it or not, the majority in the Country are not internationalists. It's disenjenuous to suggest otherwise.
We were discussing centralisation. You said you support that approach.

Then we discussed Brexit which is essentially decentralisation from Europe. You said you support that too.

You're either confused or on the wind up, taking two contrary points on the same topic.

Either way, I'm out.

Posted by: On the edge Oct 10 2016, 06:09 AM

QUOTE (user23 @ Oct 9 2016, 09:57 PM) *
We were discussing centralisation. You said you support that approach.

Then we discussed Brexit which is essentially decentralisation from Europe. You said you support that too.

You're either confused or on the wind up, taking two contrary points on the same topic.

Either way, I'm out.


By your elementary logic, and your previous responses take it that you are a 'Remainer' couple that with what you've said here means you must strongly support my contention that centralisation is the way forward, so we are both looking forward to the abolition of WBC.

Either way, you know you can't sustain your position, so of course you are out!

Posted by: JeffG Oct 10 2016, 08:55 AM

QUOTE (user23 @ Oct 9 2016, 09:57 PM) *
Then we discussed Brexit which is essentially decentralisation from Europe.

I don't see it as decentralisation. More like raise-the-drawbridge inward looking centralisation.

Posted by: Berkshirelad Oct 13 2016, 11:58 AM

Back on topic, http://www.newburytoday.co.uk/news/home/19531/taxi-driver-turned-away-from-newbury-recycling-centre.html is less than happy with the new permit system


Posted by: JeffG Oct 13 2016, 02:34 PM

You couldn't make it up, could you?

Posted by: HJD Oct 13 2016, 02:56 PM

Ah well it seems those over the border in Hampshire are going to get permits after all, although they have got to wait till Christmas though rolleyes.gif .

Posted by: On the edge Oct 13 2016, 03:55 PM

QUOTE (HJD @ Oct 13 2016, 03:56 PM) *
Ah well it seems those over the border in Hampshire are going to get permits after all, although they have got to wait till Christmas though rolleyes.gif .


So, then, back to square one, except some of us still can't use the dump because we turn up in a WBC licenced taxi, and we have been issued with passes checked by paid staff when we turn up.

Mmm, yet another sparkling success for our superb local authority.

As a previous response pointed out; you couldn't make it up!

Posted by: Andy Capp Oct 13 2016, 05:14 PM

The big question is: is this actually saving ANY MONEY! If it is, is it worth the aggro this causes everyone! angry.gif

Posted by: Rdg Oct 13 2016, 10:43 PM

QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Oct 13 2016, 06:14 PM) *
The big question is: is this actually saving ANY MONEY! If it is, is it worth the aggro this causes everyone! angry.gif


As i stated before on average it can not be saving the tax payer money as no reading, newbury and hants all have permit systems and paid staff checking that they didnt before

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