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Scotland, Yeh or Neh? |
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Sep 10 2014, 01:34 PM
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I will stick my head above the parapit on this.
I have to say that if I was still living and working in Scotland, I have to admit that I would be voting "YES".
As sadly they NO campaign lost all credility right from the start, as the NO campaign has all been based around NEGATIVE campaigning an trying to BULLY & BLACKMAIL the Scots into voting NO.
As for the £ well the British (soon to be English) government has NO right and more importantly NO RIGHTS to say Scotland cannot use the £. As the Scottish already have their own banks, their own bank notes and their banks are just as old as ours. So Scotland will keep the £ what ever happens. Our government would only be able to treat the Scottosh £ as any other foreign currency and set a high exchange rate, that would also mean that the Scottish £ would nolonger be legal tender in England/Wales.
If there is one positive that is going to come from a YES vote, it is that David Cameron would be out of his job. I would hope that he would do the honourable thing and call a general election so that the people of England could tell the ConDems where to go too.
But the sad thing is MANY Scottish people will be voting YES for the wrong reasons, that is many of them will be voting YES because the NO campaign is ANTI Conservatives, anti LibDems, and they see a YES vote as a way of showing their disapproval of Cameron, Clegg and this ConDem government.
Cameron had the chance to allow the Scots the 3rd option of DEVOLUTION MAX, but he was too arrogant and said it had to a YES or NO vote!
Well he made that decision, thankfully it will be his downfall!
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Obnoxious possiby, VEXATIOUS definitely not.
*****
www.notellingyou.not
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Sep 10 2014, 03:32 PM
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QUOTE (motormad @ Sep 10 2014, 01:48 PM) I don't really think it matters at all. Actually, in reality, safely you are quite right. We know round here that at all levels does not listen to the people. We are just fed sound bites as policy. Political debate has reduced to simply a question of service delivery, nothing more. Just centralised bureaucracy. Arguably, the Scottish a independents are quite right, Scotland as a region in a federal Europe can and will survive quite as well as it does today. Frankly, the rest of the UK would do well to heed the example. At least if would give a real degree of respect and autonomy to the other regions in these islands. Westminster has blown it, MPs lost what little respect they commanded in the expenses scandal and have done nothing since to earn it back. Let Scotland go, but let's do the job properly, break the remainder up as well - who knows, we might get our voice back!
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Know your place!
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Sep 10 2014, 05:46 PM
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QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Sep 10 2014, 05:37 PM) I see a potential for an increase in sectarianism, not only in Scotland but elsewhere too. The No campaign is bound to be negative because that is the incumbent situation. The relationship between Scotland and England is unique so there is no precedence to relate to. No-one really knows the full extent to what will happen both short term or long term. The fallacy in the Yes vote is that domiciles of Scotland are every bit as human as the English, so to think that Scottish parliament will be any 'cleaner' or Scottish is false in my view; it's almost racist to think so in fact.
In my view, to change a constitution, any constitution, it should be by an overwhelming majority and I doubt that will be the case. Wholly agree with your last comment and the majority should be of the whole nation, not just part.
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Know your place!
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Sep 10 2014, 07:31 PM
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QUOTE (Simon Kirby @ Sep 10 2014, 08:13 PM) You all know how I feel about self-management. Good point, but should matters be 'forced' on a population based on a significant minority (I appreciate that cuts both ways)?
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Sep 10 2014, 07:34 PM
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QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Sep 10 2014, 08:31 PM) Good point, but should matters be 'forced' on a population based on a significant minority (I appreciate that cuts both ways)? You make an interesting point. I favour a simple majority, but I can understand why you would suggest that fundamental changes like this pass a tougher test, like a 2/3 majority.
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Right an injustice - give Simon Kirby his allotment back!
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Sep 11 2014, 12:37 AM
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QUOTE (Gazzadp @ Sep 10 2014, 02:34 PM) If there is one positive that is going to come from a YES vote, it is that David Cameron would be out of his job. I would hope that he would do the honourable thing and call a general election so that the people of England could tell the ConDems where to go too. If Scotland leaves the UK the next general election will return a Conservative Government with a big majority, without the Scottish seats Labour has no chance of beating them. And no one else can come close. QUOTE (Gazzadp @ Sep 10 2014, 02:34 PM) But the sad thing is MANY Scottish people will be voting YES for the wrong reasons, that is many of them will be voting YES because the NO campaign is ANTI Conservatives, anti LibDems, and they see a YES vote as a way of showing their disapproval of Cameron, Clegg and this ConDem government. Well you've got me confused? I think the Scots are being asked an impossible question. The referendum should be about determining whether the Scottish Government has a mandate to negotiate the terms of independence with the UK Government. Once the terms were agreed another vote could decide Yes or No with the real issues on the table. No more politicians telling us what will happen, purely because they see it in their crystal balls - make the final decision once the real impact of independence is clear.
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Sep 11 2014, 06:26 AM
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QUOTE (blackdog @ Sep 11 2014, 01:37 AM) .............. I think the Scots are being asked an impossible question. The referendum should be about determining whether the Scottish Government has a mandate to negotiate the terms of independence with the UK Government. Once the terms were agreed another vote could decide Yes or No with the real issues on the table. No more politicians telling us what will happen, purely because they see it in their crystal balls - make the final decision once the real impact of independence is clear. That's the most sensible comment I've heard about this whole campaign. If this had been done, it would have given a credibility which could be sustained, no matter which way the vote went, even on a simple majority decision.
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Know your place!
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Sep 11 2014, 07:59 AM
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QUOTE (On the edge @ Sep 11 2014, 07:26 AM) That's the most sensible comment I've heard about this whole campaign. If this had been done, it would have given a credibility which could be sustained, no matter which way the vote went, even on a simple majority decision. If, as they seem to say, a yes vote will affect us all, why are we all not getting a say in the result?
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Sep 11 2014, 08:31 AM
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QUOTE (Ron @ Sep 11 2014, 08:59 AM) If, as they seem to say, a yes vote will affect us all, why are we all not getting a say in the result? Hear, hear.
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Sep 17 2014, 05:22 PM
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QUOTE (On the edge @ Sep 17 2014, 02:27 PM) Loosing Scotland will actually benefit us, no more subsidy leeching out of England to pay for free prescriptions, further education grants etc, etc. Trying to keep GB together 'as is' is simply an emotional response. I understand that we get more back in tax than we spend, so I am not sure that is true.
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Sep 17 2014, 05:48 PM
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QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Sep 17 2014, 06:22 PM) I understand that we get more back in tax than we spend, so I am not sure that is true. There's so much bluff and bluster on both sides it's been impossible to see the real truth. Nonetheless, we do know that the Barnett formula for local government does substantially favour Scotland. Similarly, there doesn't seem to be any reduction in spend elsewhere to set against the cost of free prescriptions and further education grants. So, who is being suckered?
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Know your place!
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Sep 17 2014, 06:55 PM
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QUOTE (On the edge @ Sep 17 2014, 06:48 PM) There's so much bluff and bluster on both sides it's been impossible to see the real truth. Nonetheless, we do know that the Barnett formula for local government does substantially favour Scotland. Similarly, there doesn't seem to be any reduction in spend elsewhere to set against the cost of free prescriptions and further education grants. So, who is being suckered? Yes I understand that information is arranged to suit the argument (typical confirmation bias), but I have been lead to believe that Scotland pays its way, unlike the rest of the UK outside the south east. Yes we do spend more per head than in other areas of the UK, but if you take into account oil revenue (at 90% of total oil revenue), then Scotland pays for itself. http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/the-stag...88-union-public
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