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Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Jul 8 2017, 08:18 PM

As this job is based in London and white British people make up less than 50% of the capital now surely they are now an ethnic minority?

https://creativeaccess.org.uk/opportunity/trainee-production-intern/

Also if I advertised for a job and said "whites only" what would the social and media reaction be? My guess is I'd end up being prosecuted. Odd world....

And I just noticed... PESTON

Posted by: je suis Charlie Jul 8 2017, 08:35 PM

Yeah, rite on bro! Bit like black people make better parents than white people, yah?

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Jul 8 2017, 08:43 PM

What if I am white but "identify" as black? If I wear fake tan can I apply? What is "white"? Do they have some sort of dulux chart? Does this mean Jews can't apply?

Posted by: je suis Charlie Jul 9 2017, 02:59 AM

"Is it 'cos I is white?"

Posted by: SirWilliam Jul 9 2017, 08:45 AM

Is being colour blind a valid excuse ? It will all end in tears.

Posted by: Biker1 Jul 9 2017, 09:29 AM

Absolutely appalling.....and possibly illegal??

Posted by: newres Jul 9 2017, 11:18 AM

It doesn't seem correct to me. It's an internship. Is that why it's possible?

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Jul 9 2017, 11:31 AM

I'd love an albino to apply. That would really mess the none white policy up.

Posted by: SirWilliam Jul 9 2017, 02:30 PM

So if a non-black, ie white, person applies and is refused on the colour of their skin, surely this is discrimination on a par with pre-war USA? It matters not a jot what the job description is, to differentiate on the grounds of skin colour is appalling.

Any contributors to this forum who consider themselves " an ethnic minority" and wish to comment?

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Jul 9 2017, 04:21 PM

This is the tip of the iceberg. I am constantly leaned on by HR to "diversify" my department. Gods honest truth. if I were born now I'd want to be asian or black. White is bad.

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Jul 9 2017, 04:23 PM

White British people in London are an ethnic minority. Be 10% in 10 years. White Flight. Thats why newres moved!!!😂😂

Posted by: SirWilliam Jul 9 2017, 06:46 PM

So what do those who brought us to this place have to say ? Taken it to its logical conclusion in 200 years time school children will be taught about a pale-skinned race that was once predominant but now sadly extinct.

Posted by: Mr Brown Jul 9 2017, 07:19 PM

Natural selection; survival of the fittest?

Posted by: SirWilliam Jul 9 2017, 07:31 PM

Darwin has a lot to answer for. Please reference my signature.

Posted by: je suis Charlie Jul 9 2017, 07:46 PM

The Seagulls Bed And Breakfast

Vacancies

No pets!
No Irish!
No whites!

Posted by: Mr Brown Jul 9 2017, 07:48 PM

So spake the dodo.

Anyway, as to your signature, why should anyone leave? Migrants have generally been successful here, they seem to like it, so why should they go? Running our NHS, picking our crops, waiting on us in cafes; the indigenous species isn't looking after itself.

Posted by: On the edge Jul 9 2017, 07:52 PM

Perhaps he did Sir, a dead language for a dieing people.....

Posted by: je suis Charlie Jul 9 2017, 07:59 PM

Oooh, here comes the grammar police!

Dying is the present participle of die, i.e., to cease living.
If you are dieing something, you are cutting or stamping it with a die.

Posted by: On the edge Jul 9 2017, 08:03 PM

Yeah, stamping out the redundant race.

Posted by: je suis Charlie Jul 9 2017, 08:34 PM

And, judging by your efforts, the English language as well.

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Jul 9 2017, 08:37 PM

You are not going to say it is just plain wrong then? Surely you cant defend the indefensible...

Posted by: On the edge Jul 9 2017, 09:07 PM

And just what have you ever done to try and stop this sort of thing? It's clearly institutionalised and if it were so wrong, then surely our legal system would provide a remedy. You clearly have a strong principled opinion here, so what's the next action?

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Jul 9 2017, 11:41 PM

Yawn..... This is a forum. Its for chewing the fat. Get a life.

Posted by: On the edge Jul 10 2017, 05:37 AM

Really?

Nice attitude old son, glad I don't work for you!

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Jul 10 2017, 06:32 AM

You couldn't. You'd fail the interview. BADLY. 😂

Posted by: On the edge Jul 10 2017, 08:21 AM

Again, so glad; such interviews are generally designed to select mirror images of those doing the recruiting. So self perpetuating, meaning you'll only learn that when it's too late. Ironic really; attitude was one of the key reasons we started deploying IT from India.

Posted by: spartacus Jul 10 2017, 12:18 PM

I'm outraged. When members of the Travelling Community offer people unpaid employment it's called slavery. But when ethnic minorities are offered the same opportunities it's called an internship. Bigots!

Posted by: Simon Kirby Jul 10 2017, 05:07 PM

Black, Asian and other minority ethnicities are grossly underrepreented in the staff of the BBC, so there has been some long-standing institutional discrimination on the part of the BBC against employing BAME candidates, or else the opportunities have not been there for BAME candidates to qualify as the best candidates for the job, or both. Either way I can see the justice in positive discrimination to redress this.

OK, so an advert that so explicitly discriminates against people on the basis of their ethnicity is pretty objectionable if you believe in equality of opportunity, but all the same I can still see the justice in this.

However, the injustice that remains is that only candidates who are independently supported can accept an internship in London on £15k, so this kind of positive discrimination may possibly even out the institutional discrimination that has historically excluded BAME candidates from jobs at the Beeb, but it only reinforces the discrimination against candidates who aren't the children of rich parents.

Posted by: je suis Charlie Jul 10 2017, 05:35 PM

Proof? Evidence? Figures?

Posted by: Simon Kirby Jul 10 2017, 07:27 PM

I think I read it in the http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3580768/KATIE-HOPKINS-jobs-come-colour-want-long-s-not-white.html.

Posted by: Simon Kirby Jul 10 2017, 07:33 PM

And then there's what the BBC said about it too. http://www.bbc.co.uk/mediacentre/latestnews/2014/bame-representation-plans

Posted by: Simon Kirby Jul 10 2017, 07:38 PM

I think it's important to recognise that these internships are not jobs, they are training opportunities to give underrepresented BAME candidates the opportunity and experience to succeed in open and fair recruitment for future jobs.

Posted by: je suis Charlie Jul 10 2017, 08:26 PM

You mean someone read it for you.

Posted by: je suis Charlie Jul 10 2017, 08:30 PM

And I'm sure Miss Marple will benefit from a good healthy injection of Winston, Mohammad and Jafri!!

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Jul 10 2017, 09:16 PM

Racism. Don't care how you package it. Nothing less. Again I ask what would be the reaction to a job advert for whites only interns. I would be disgusted - as I am about this. Its indefensible.

Posted by: spartacus Jul 10 2017, 09:29 PM

Just because you look more Talcum-X than Malcolm-X doesn't mean you're not who you identify as....

So long as you identify as non-white, no-one should have a problem with you applying. And if you think that you've been discriminated against because of how you appear then you should sue the racist b**tards.

I mean if a man can have a baby https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/3972232/britains-first-pregnant-man-gives-birth-to-baby-girl/ then surely the mere fact of having pale complexion shouldn't prevent you thinking and believing yourself to be black.

Posted by: je suis Charlie Jul 10 2017, 09:50 PM

You iz ma bro man! Dig it! You n me against whitey! Ride on!

Posted by: Simon Kirby Jul 11 2017, 06:39 AM

No, not racism. Racism is the discrimination that has excluded BAME candidates from the creative industries. Creating internships to redress the disadvantage of BAME candidates so that they can compete for jobs at parity with non-BAME candidates doesn't discriminate against anyone, it just creates a level playing field.

Posted by: je suis Charlie Jul 11 2017, 07:57 AM

"The term "racial discrimination" shall mean any distinction, exclusion, restriction, or preference based on race, colour, descent, or national or ethnic origin that has the purpose or effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment or exercise, on an equal footing, of human rights and fundamental freedoms in the political, economic, social, cultural or any other field of public life."

Its racist. By definition and by intent.

Posted by: On the edge Jul 11 2017, 11:21 AM

At the end of the day, they are simply trying to make our society fairer and more of a meritocracy. Perhaps not going the right way about it, but there is nothing wrong with the intention. There is nothing new in our trying to eliminate discriminatory barriers; been going on for years. Many women still feel discriminated against for instance.

If this particular method of making things better isn't acceptable, does anyone have a better solution?

Posted by: SirWilliam Jul 11 2017, 12:00 PM

Extremely valid argument. The problem is that most people are perfectly happy with a totally inclusive society but take umbrage when it is shoved down our throats as though we are all bigots in need of educating. The irony is that those who still take the view that white male supremacy is a given are unlikely to be influenced by a few pages of legislation.

An alternative approach? I doubt it and surely that is the point, we are not so much doing something about the problem as being seen to do something in support of those who feel excluded.

Posted by: je suis Charlie Jul 11 2017, 06:17 PM

People should succeed or fail on their merits not their skin colour.

Posted by: Biker1 Jul 11 2017, 06:19 PM

Exactly!
Which is why most employers describe themselves as "equal opportunities"

Posted by: Simon Kirby Jul 11 2017, 06:50 PM

I'm happy with that as a definition of racism, however I don't agree that this racially-selective internship is racist by that definition. It's racially selective, that's undeniable, so it undeniably passes the first part of the test, but does that racial selection have the "purpose or effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment or exercise, on an equal footing, of human rights and fundamental freedoms in the political, economic, social, cultural or any other field of public life". Certainly taking a job is unambiguously an exercise of a fundamentl freedom in the economic field of public life, but this isn't a job, it's an internship designed to give the successful applicant equality of opportunity with non BAME condidates in applications for jobs in the creative sector.

The crux is that, all other things being equal and given the internship works as intended, a non-BAME individual who hasn't taken the internship is not going to be disadvantage in an application for a creative job but is going to be equally qualified on merit with the BAME intern. No one is disadvantaged so the racially-selective internship isn't racist.

Posted by: Andy Capp Jul 11 2017, 07:51 PM

Unless you are white and want to apply for an internship.

Posted by: je suis Charlie Jul 11 2017, 08:09 PM

Not interested if you're happy with the definition, its THE definition! Clear, precise, definitive. "Exclusion based on colour" is the nitty gritty. No weasel words, no fudging, no obscuration, no 'corbynisms". Its racism. Fundamentally, in word in ethics and in law.

Posted by: Simon Kirby Jul 11 2017, 08:39 PM

But if you're white you don't need an internship to put you on a lavel playing field in the job market, you already have the advantage over BAME candidates because you're white. But yes, if a white candidate wanted to take advantage of the institutional racism and cultural disadvantage that has kept BAME candidates out of the performing arts then for sure, they'd want to get on an internship too so they'd be equally qualified as the BAME intern and secure the job because they're white, just like it's always been, but is that just?

Posted by: Simon Kirby Jul 11 2017, 08:42 PM

Exclusion based on colour is just one part of the definition, and for a thing to be racism by this definition you need to have both the exclusion element and the detriment.

Posted by: je suis Charlie Jul 11 2017, 08:44 PM

So what you're saying is oh really!!

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Jul 11 2017, 08:52 PM

So to sum up. White bad. None white good. Tell that to the forgotton white middle aged men who voted brexit. They they see adverts like that and you are actually surprised about the rise of the far right? Then again you'd probably just call them uneducated bigots. I see no racism in my workplace. The chap I work with is black, a fully qualified accountant and one of the nicest guys I know. Whats more he is an exceptional employee and being fast tracked. Its called "talent".

Posted by: je suis Charlie Jul 11 2017, 08:57 PM

Racist, nazi, Tory.😁😁😁

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Jul 11 2017, 08:59 PM

And on a lighter note has the world gone completely mad?

Posted by: On the edge Jul 11 2017, 09:28 PM

Does this fit with the comment you made about you not wanting to employ me without you knowing anything at all about my skills or fitness for the job? Frankly, I'm not surprised you are often 'leaned on' by your HR department!

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Jul 11 2017, 09:41 PM

Not at all. By commenting on this forum for years that gives me a much better insight into your character than a 1 to 2 hour interview. I think you would cause trouble in my department. I expect you have been a thorn in the side of a lot of people in the past. And you'll be proud of it.

Posted by: Andy Capp Jul 12 2017, 12:51 AM

I read an interesting article where it stated that provided competence for a job is assumed, the chances of picking an ideal candidate for a job were only marginally better with an interview than if the decision was left to chance. In other words, a flip of a coin is almost as successful a method as an interview.

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2015/nov/22/why-job-interviews-are-pointless

Posted by: Biker1 Jul 12 2017, 04:25 AM

That is a joke right????
Please let it be a joke!!!!

Posted by: On the edge Jul 12 2017, 06:28 AM

A very sad commentary on your managerial competence.

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Jul 12 2017, 06:44 AM

Confirmation that you would be trouble. 👍

Posted by: On the edge Jul 12 2017, 06:59 AM

Indeed. one of the reasons I wouldn't want to be employed by you anyway! You have at least confirmed that the biggest concern I had about Brexit, one that nearly stopped me voting to leave. That is, I was concerned that the UK didn't appear to have the management capability to go it alone. You have at least confirmed that; so perhaps the present political re-think is no bad thing.

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Jul 12 2017, 07:04 AM

Goodbye. Shut the door on the way out. You can't even perform trolling very well. Poor excuse for a human being.

Posted by: On the edge Jul 12 2017, 07:09 AM

Sigh, the classic response, you only have personal insult left. I do appreciate that the truth hurts; so sorry for upsetting your day even as it starts.

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Jul 12 2017, 07:26 AM

Ha Ha. Upset? 😂

Posted by: Andy Capp Jul 12 2017, 08:05 AM

Lol at the sight of two managerial elite slugging it out!

Some light reading:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/how-to-convince-some-to-change-their-mind-according-to-science-a6867291.html

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/science-says-these-9-tactics-will-help-you-win-any-argument-a6865446.html

Posted by: On the edge Jul 12 2017, 02:35 PM

Very interesting; as item one implies, difficult to make work!