Winter fuel payments cut Options

[Cognosco]

I agree, private companies making outrageous profits from providing public services is wrong
This is an example

I agree entirely. Your link is only the tip of the iceberg? The PFI debate has been a worry for Strategic Health Authorities for some time now as it means most of the money coming in to fund the NHS for years to come will be used up just repaying the costs of the PFI's. Just wait until the GP Consortia take over. Think of the billions that the NHS costs the taxpayer and just think of the millions of profits the private sector will be able to siphon off. Do you honestly think the Americans would be interested in running our NHS out of the goodness of their hearts? Of course not. The poor GP's wont know what has hit them. They are struggling to run their own surgeries. Without practice managers and advisors they would be at a complete loss. They are doctors not accountants, legal experts or administrators. They will not be able to run the NHS without an army of advisors and guess where they will come from. It will be the same as putting the foxes in charge of the hen houses. I believe most of the NHS staff can foresee exactly what is going to happen and are in despair. It will make the banking crisis scandal look minuscule in comparison.

[NWNREADER]

I don't have a problem with someone making a business out of providing a service, as long as the cost remains well within the cost before they took it on. Councils and Governments tend to make a sows ear out of actually running things, so private enterprise can often deliver as effectively for a lower contract price.
It is not an ideal world, and there is not an ideal solution. PFI is proving to be outrageously enriching for the contractor.

[Cognosco]

I don't have a problem with someone making a business out of providing a service, as long as the cost remains well within the cost before they took it on. Councils and Governments tend to make a sows ear out of actually running things, so private enterprise can often deliver as effectively for a lower contract price.
It is not an ideal world, and there is not an ideal solution. PFI is proving to be outrageously enriching for the contractor.

Just take hospital cleaning as an example. Since private contractors took over not only has hospital cleaning standards declined but cleaners pay and conditions has declined as well so the only gain is the profits for shareholders. The poor patients have lost out again with infections spreading and dirty toilets and wards etc.

Catering that has gone to private contractors has declined as well. Look at the case that has just been won by a patient that, because the food he was provided with whilst in hospital was inedible, was forced to let his relatives buy and bring in food from outside. The court agreed and the hospital was forced to repay his costs.

I too am not against making procedures more efficient but because of all the time and motion studies etc carried out in the recent past the only way for private contractors to make money is to cut corners and workers pay and that usually means patients suffer in the long run and the taxpayers are not getting value for money.

[NWNREADER]

Just take hospital cleaning as an example. Since private contractors took over not only has hospital cleaning standards declined but cleaners pay and conditions has declined as well so the only gain is the profits for shareholders. The poor patients have lost out again with infections spreading and dirty toilets and wards etc.

Catering that has gone to private contractors has declined as well. Look at the case that has just been won by a patient that, because the food he was provided with whilst in hospital was inedible, was forced to let his relatives buy and bring in food from outside. The court agreed and the hospital was forced to repay his costs.

I too am not against making procedures more efficient but because of all the time and motion studies etc carried out in the recent past the only way for private contractors to make money is to cut corners and workers pay and that usually means patients suffer in the long run and the taxpayers are not getting value for money.

Those issues - which I agree arise - are because the people who draw up the contracts are commercially inept and the level of checks on service delivery are laughable (or would be were it not so serious). There is an issue with so much public service that the private sector struggles with - many public sector staff are 'vocation' driven. They care. The commercial side tends to struggle to accommodate that as it cannot be costed. In particular, the managers tend to want to charge for that extra level of service leading to headlines about people being told to stop doing 'nice' things.

[Strafin]

Just take hospital cleaning as an example. Since private contractors took over not only has hospital cleaning standards declined but cleaners pay and conditions has declined as well so the only gain is the profits for shareholders. The poor patients have lost out again with infections spreading and dirty toilets and wards etc.

Catering that has gone to private contractors has declined as well. Look at the case that has just been won by a patient that, because the food he was provided with whilst in hospital was inedible, was forced to let his relatives buy and bring in food from outside. The court agreed and the hospital was forced to repay his costs.

I too am not against making procedures more efficient but because of all the time and motion studies etc carried out in the recent past the only way for private contractors to make money is to cut corners and workers pay and that usually means patients suffer in the long run and the taxpayers are not getting value for money.

When have hospitals ever stopped people bringing in food? Most hospitals have cafes and restaurants in them anyway, I can't believe you could claim back your costs any more than you could claim petrol if you drove instead of getting an ambulance.

[NWNREADER]

Sadly some people will claim for anything. 'Hospital food' has always been a (music-hall) joke. People forget the diet is designed to sustain their recovery. Few people need as many calories laying in bed as they do in work etc.

I've seen a fair range of hospital food over the last (too) many years. Whilst never haute cusine I'd struggle to say any was 'inedible'.

[Strafin]

I run a contract for a private firm, within the public sector. My client is happy to shell out literally thousands of pounds a month for senior employees to get drunk, but will spend no more than £1.34 for a meal. We get complaints about the food all the time and do our best, but the consumers think we are the ones ripping them off.

[NWNREADER]

I run a contract for a private firm, within the oublic sector. My client is happy to shell out literally thousands of pounds a month for senior employees to get drunk, but will spend no more than £1.34 for a meal. We get complaints about the food all the time and do our best, but the consumers think we are the ones ripping them off.

And that is where the contract manager is deficient......... Too many in the public sector are inept with commerce, and at a loss for how to enforce the terms of the contract.

A bit surprised about the funding of alcohol consumption, as my limited experience is the public purse won't pay out for alcohol at all....
Unless you are at the House of Commons....

[GMR]

I run a contract for a private firm, within the oublic sector. My client is happy to shell out literally thousands of pounds a month for senior employees to get drunk, but will spend no more than £1.34 for a meal. We get complaints about the food all the time and do our best, but the consumers think we are the ones ripping them off.

What is an 'oublic sector'? You are not based in another country, are you?

[dannyboy]

Not that polls tell you much as again it only tells you the answer to the questions asked, which means they are loaded to give the answer that the questioner wants.

You mean like Polls asking if an allotment holder wants self management for instance?

[Andy Capp]

You mean like Polls asking if an allotment holder wants self management for instance?

What is loaded about polling allotmenteers if they would prefer self management?

[Bofem]

What is an 'oublic sector'? You are not based in another country, are you?

Oh no he's back

[dannyboy]

What is loaded about polling allotmenteers if they would prefer self management?

You'd have to ask Cognosco - he is the one calling into question the reliability of polls.

[Cognosco]

You'd have to ask Cognosco - he is the one calling into question the reliability of polls.

Just making the comment that a skilled person can manipulate the answers given in polls by forming the questions to get the answers they require.

Like WBC with their questionnaires on what do taxpayers want in Newbury?
They only give you the options for what they have already proposed.

[GMR]

Oh no he's back

I was never away....

[Strafin]

A bit surprised about the funding of alcohol consumption, as my limited experience is the public purse won't pay out for alcohol at all....

You'd be suprised - it just comes under hospitality as a general cost. Alcohol is supplied as standard when someone leaves, when someone gets promoted, or when a VIP guest visits.

[NWNREADER]

You'd be suprised - it just comes under hospitality as a general cost. Alcohol is supplied as standard when someone leaves, when someone gets promoted, or when a VIP guest visits.

Well you have better (?) experience than me, then......... You have a particular public employer in mind?