Newbury 2025 Annual Conference, 2025 Vision Options

[dannyboy]

And you do not see this as unfair to all ratepayers who are in business. Why should the town centre businesses be more important than other areas of Newbury when it comes to subsidising?

No, not at all unfair.

Town centres have always been more important - for instance it is why rents are higher there.

[Simon Kirby]

Town centres have always been more important - for instance it is why rents are higher there.

You're deliberately misunderstanding the point. Yes, of course a town centre location is better for business if your business depends on casual footfall, and town centre rents are consequently higher because of that, but what Cognosco is asking is why WBC should use public money to support a Business Improvement District when businesses outside the BID don't get the same support? The whole point is that the BID itself will deliver benefits to its district by levying a charge on the businesses in the district, and if it can't do that without state support then the premise is entirely bogus. (and for the record, I have every confidence that the BID will improve the town to the benefit of both traders and townspeople without any state intervention).

[dannyboy]

You're deliberately misunderstanding the point. Yes, of course a town centre location is better for business if your business depends on casual footfall, and town centre rents are consequently higher because of that, but what Cognosco is asking is why WBC should use public money to support a Business Improvement District when businesses outside the BID don't get the same support? The whole point is that the BID itself will deliver benefits to its district by levying a charge on the businesses in the district, and if it can't do that without state support then the premise is entirely bogus. (and for the record, I have every confidence that the BID will improve the town to the benefit of both traders and townspeople without any state intervention).

Because a thriving town centre = a thriving town. So everyone benefits.

Concils contribute financially to the towns they represent in all manner of ways. Some of that contribution is geographically allocated. Such as the Tour of Britain.

[Cognosco]

Because a thriving town centre = a thriving town. So everyone benefits.

Concils contribute financially to the towns they represent in all manner of ways. Some of that contribution is geographically allocated. Such as the Tour of Britain.

Giving retailers £30000 is different than allocating to the Tour of Britain as well you know.
Giving back to retailers a fair wedge is the same as discounting business rates so should apply to all businesses in that district.

Disagree! Town centres only survive if there is local people with money to spend on the products that the shops in the town are retailng. Other businesses in the town, not just the town centre, tend to employ the people who live in the town and surrounding districts it is those that make a town survive or not. For the councils to subsidise just the town centre is not fair in any way you look at it. Village shops and small retailers on the estates etc are just as important or even more so than town centre shops to a lot of people why are they not offered the same.

Is the retail park getting the same subsidies?

Taking your argument, of rents being higher in town centres, further then town centres ought not to exist because rents are too high for shops to exist without some form of subsidy so why build Park Way? That may go some way to explaining why it is more than half emtpy?

As the now famous saying of Dave "We are all in this together" But some more than others it would seem as far as fairness to businesses in Newbury!

[Exhausted]

You're deliberately misunderstanding the point. Yes, of course a town centre location is better for business if your business depends on casual footfall, and town centre rents are consequently higher because of that, but what Cognosco is asking is why WBC should use public money to support a Business Improvement District when businesses outside the BID don't get the same support? The whole point is that the BID itself will deliver benefits to its district by levying a charge on the businesses in the district, and if it can't do that without state support then the premise is entirely bogus. (and for the record, I have every confidence that the BID will improve the town to the benefit of both traders and townspeople without any state intervention).

I'm not sure where all these figures about subsidies to the BID are coming from. Business rates are collected by the council on behalf of the government who then give back monies to the council which goes into the central pot. As far as I am aware, there is no actual money being given to the BID other than the 1% that would be due to the BID from properties/business owned by the council. If you can correct me on this please do.
The council are still responsible for the standard things such as street lighting, cleaning etc through their share of those rates paid to central government..
The local authority has a statutory responsibility in accordance with the Local Government Act 2003, to support the development of business improvement districts and facilitate their establishment.
If the town is allowed to deteriorate due to lack of investment, everybody would suffer. This would be brought about by the work force moving to somewhere where the town is flourishing and which provides a good quality of life. Employers will want to run their business in a pleasant and viable area where the employees are available and content. A bouyant local area will attract new business investment, not only shops but manufacturing and other businesses which pay a wage.
Maybe Cognosco is about to move out of Newbury as he seems to be quite keen to scupper plans which can vitalise the town, but the rest of us who work and live here want to make sure our employer is content and that my job is as secure as can be in these difficult times.

[dannyboy]

Giving retailers £30000 is different than allocating to the Tour of Britain as well you know.

Is it?

Giving back to retailers a fair wedge is the same as discounting business rates so should apply to all businesses in that district.

Disagree! Town centres only survive if there is local people with money to spend on the products that the shops in the town are retailng. Other businesses in the town, not just the town centre, tend to employ the people who live in the town and surrounding districts it is those that make a town survive or not. For the councils to subsidise just the town centre is not fair in any way you look at it. Village shops and small retailers on the estates etc are just as important or even more so than town centre shops to a lot of people why are they not offered the same.

Out of town shops benefit from having a thriving town. Period.

Is the retail park getting the same subsidies?

No - maybe they should organise their own BID.

Taking your argument, of rents being higher in town centres, further then town centres ought not to exist because rents are too high for shops to exist without some form of subsidy so why build Park Way? That may go some way to explaining why it is more than half emtpy?

Yawn, hanging on to spurious arguments is rather tedious. £30k will pay for less than 4 months rent on say the Cornish Pasty shop. So it is hardly going to be a deal breaker. It equates to about £60 per business with in the BID area.

As the now famous saying of Dave "We are all in this together" But some more than others it would seem as far as fairness to businesses in Newbury!

[Cognosco]

I'm not sure where all these figures about subsidies to the BID are coming from. Business rates are collected by the council on behalf of the government who then give back monies to the council which goes into the central pot. As far as I am aware, there is no actual money being given to the BID other than the 1% that would be due to the BID from properties/business owned by the council. If you can correct me on this please do.
The council are still responsible for the standard things such as street lighting, cleaning etc through their share of those rates paid to central government..
The local authority has a statutory responsibility in accordance with the Local Government Act 2003, to support the development of business improvement districts and facilitate their establishment.
If the town is allowed to deteriorate due to lack of investment, everybody would suffer. This would be brought about by the work force moving to somewhere where the town is flourishing and which provides a good quality of life. Employers will want to run their business in a pleasant and viable area where the employees are available and content. A bouyant local area will attract new business investment, not only shops but manufacturing and other businesses which pay a wage.
Maybe Cognosco is about to move out of Newbury as he seems to be quite keen to scupper plans which can vitalise the town, but the rest of us who work and live here want to make sure our employer is content and that my job is as secure as can be in these difficult times.

My argument if you like is that if the council are giving money away or subsidising, as alleged, then it should be done fairly to all businesses in Newbury not just a geographical area of the town centre. Why should the town centre businesses be any more important than businesses not in the immediate town centre?
Nothing against the BID at all providing any money raised is coming from the businesses that are members. Not happy for taxpayers money to subsidise a few businesses though.

[Simon Kirby]

I'm not sure where all these figures about subsidies to the BID are coming from. Business rates are collected by the council on behalf of the government who then give back monies to the council which goes into the central pot. As far as I am aware, there is no actual money being given to the BID other than the 1% that would be due to the BID from properties/business owned by the council. If you can correct me on this please do.
The council are still responsible for the standard things such as street lighting, cleaning etc through their share of those rates paid to central government..
The local authority has a statutory responsibility in accordance with the Local Government Act 2003, to support the development of business improvement districts and facilitate their establishment.
If the town is allowed to deteriorate due to lack of investment, everybody would suffer. This would be brought about by the work force moving to somewhere where the town is flourishing and which provides a good quality of life. Employers will want to run their business in a pleasant and viable area where the employees are available and content. A bouyant local area will attract new business investment, not only shops but manufacturing and other businesses which pay a wage.
Maybe Cognosco is about to move out of Newbury as he seems to be quite keen to scupper plans which can vitalise the town, but the rest of us who work and live here want to make sure our employer is content and that my job is as secure as can be in these difficult times.

I do have some recollection that NWN reported that NTC were giving BIDCo a grant of £10k, but it's entirely possible I've imagined that. Grumpy made the claim so it would be really helpful if Grumpy could substantiate it.

I completely agree with your comments on the value of a BID. I wasn't aware of the obligation on WBC to facilitate the establishment of the BID, and I guess £30k would be a fair investment in that.

Come on Grumpy, can you explain your figures?

[Simon Kirby]

Concils contribute financially to the towns they represent in all manner of ways. Some of that contribution is geographically allocated. Such as the Tour of Britain.

I really enjoyed seeing the tour, but is it really a good example of focussed investment?

[dannyboy]

I really enjoyed seeing the tour, but is it really a good example of focussed investment?

You could say the same of any of the town centre events which have been held over the last few years.

If it gets people into the town who normally would not be there, then I say it is a good thing.

[Cognosco]

You could say the same of any of the town centre events which have been held over the last few years.

If it gets people into the town who normally would not be there, then I say it is a good thing.

It is only a good thing if the people who come into town actually spend some money but then who actually gains from this spend? So who do you think should stump up the cash for the spend?

[dannyboy]

It is only a good thing if the people who come into town actually spend some money but then who actually gains from this spend? So who do you think should stump up the cash for the spend?

It is basic economics 101.

If you don't understand that.....

[Cognosco]

It is basic economics 101.

If you don't understand that.....

If only you would be kind enough to explain it for me.......after all I am not a council employee?

[dannyboy]

If only you would be kind enough to explain it for me.......after all I am not a council employee?

Nor me, though I fail to see what not being a council employee has to do with basic comprehension.

[NewburyP]

My argument if you like is that if the council are giving money away or subsidising, as alleged, then it should be done fairly to all businesses in Newbury not just a geographical area of the town centre. Why should the town centre businesses be any more important than businesses not in the immediate town centre?
Nothing against the BID at all providing any money raised is coming from the businesses that are members. Not happy for taxpayers money to subsidise a few businesses though.

Surely there is a wider point to be made here - NTC spend over a third of their annual budget on staff and administration costs (over £350k). If you are concerned about taxpayers money then focus on the wastage of the many Council employees who struggle to fill up their day with things to do.

[Rowley Birkin]

there is a story for the NWN. newbury parkway slams newbury town council.

[Simon Kirby]

Surely there is a wider point to be made here - NTC spend over a third of their annual budget on staff and administration costs (over £350k). If you are concerned about taxpayers money then focus on the wastage of the many Council employees who struggle to fill up their day with things to do.

Very good point.

[dannyboy]

Very good point.

Isn't NewburyP the spokesperson for the BID?

[worried]

As I understand it the BID area is very much the town centre from Black Boys Bridge in the South and to London Road in The North. Those business rate payers have now voted by a majority to go for a BID. This will mean a levy that we have voted for of 1% on our business rates. This money will then go into the control of the BID company for spending on BID initiatives. The town and district councils did support the process to get the BID going through their support of the Town Centre Partnership which as I have read has now been closed. The Town and District Councils are each business rates payers and will have to pay the levy (by law) too. But their further support is subject to a so called Base line agreement, this means the council - West Berks had to agree to continue with the delivery of certain services such as street cleaning for example, cart park provision etc, this base line agreement ensures that they can not walk away from pre BID services and leave the BID to pick up the cost, I hope that the town council continues to support the Christmas lights for example.

Not everyone will like the BID idea but it has gone through a process and has been successul in other towns up and down the country. We as Business Rate payers must now ensure that the BID company performs and spends the million pounds that it will recieve over the next 4 years in a wise way that will ensure a busier town centre that my business relies upon. There has been quite a debate here about this BID , I would suggest that people look at the BID web site where I did my research and by talking to the BID people as they came to visit the business to lobby for our yes vote. They got mine, but now they must make progress.

The Vison is an example where WBC wish to plough on with their agenda to knock down the Kennet Centre, build and urban village where the bus station is etc etc and to build their pavillion in the park. So people whatchout for another ten years of upheaval, change traffic chaos. Does anyone know that Bartholomew Street is going to be dug up again this summer by the gas board ?

[Simon Kirby]

Isn't NewburyP the spokesperson for the BID?

Aren't you minister for misinformation at Townhall Towers?