Newbury Magistrates; just give in lads, Latest wheeze to prove Court can't be in Newbury! Options

[On the edge]

So much for the campaign to keep a Magistrates Court in Newbury. NWN reporting that the 'Court Service' have contracted out the prisoner escort service, so anyone at Newbury has to wait for an hour in the Court to be picked up! It looks as if 'the rules' mean Newbury's finest, just next door can't help. Of course, even someone with an elementary grasp of logic will realise that the Court has no protection against contempt etc. In other words it emasculated!

Should we not be told the name of the comic who agreed this daft idea, or is my cynical voice right when it says this is deliberate and designed to frustrate any attempt to keep Newbury as a viable Court?

Well done Sir Humphrey!

[Simon Kirby]

So much for the campaign to keep a Magistrates Court in Newbury. NWN reporting that the 'Court Service' have contracted out the prisoner escort service, so anyone at Newbury has to wait for an hour in the Court to be picked up! It looks as if 'the rules' mean Newbury's finest, just next door can't help. Of course, even someone with an elementary grasp of logic will realise that the Court has no protection against contempt etc. In other words it emasculated!

Should we not be told the name of the comic who agreed this daft idea, or is my cynical voice right when it says this is deliberate and designed to frustrate any attempt to keep Newbury as a viable Court?

Well done Sir Humphrey!

So the crux of this appears to be that the prisoner escort contract was let with an inadequate level of service. Is that right? If that was formerly the job of the police service then I'm pleased the job has been contracted out - the job of the police is to detect crime, not to guard potential scrotes - but if the contract doesn't provide for the necessary level of service to ensure security and preserve the dignity of the court then that's rubbish, and as you say, maybe deliberately so.

[On the edge]

Yes, exactly that, inadequate service levels.

The job used to be a Police role; where they were required to waste a huge amount of valuable time. Contracting it out was undoubtedly right, but who set the service level?

The 'Courts Service' is set against keeping the Court in Newbury but our local MP had been lobbying to keep it. Yet again, the administration decides what's best, not our elected representative!

[Andy Capp]

Yes, exactly that, inadequate service levels.

The job used to be a Police role; where they were required to waste a huge amount of valuable time. Contracting it out was undoubtedly right, but who set the service level?

The 'Courts Service' is set against keeping the Court in Newbury but our local MP had been lobbying to keep it. Yet again, the administration decides what's best, not our elected representative!

I suspect the SLA is commensurate with how much 'we' are prepared to pay.

[MontyPython]

Yes, exactly that, inadequate service levels.

Not so sure about that. There appears not be enough for a permanent escort presence so it is "on call" with an hour wait for said "scrote". Is an hours wait too much of a problem? The offender is going to be held much longer anyway.

[Simon Kirby]

Not so sure about that. There appears not be enough for a permanent escort presence so it is "on call" with an hour wait for said "scrote". Is an hours wait too much of a problem? The offender is going to be held much longer anyway.

Wasn't a recent issue that there was no one available to do any "holding" at all? Or am I conflating different things here? I'd expect that there would be a couple of heavies waiting in the wings to snag the occasional scrote who got a bit uppity, so is this scrote-snagging now an hour away?

[On the edge]

Yes, the whole issue is about the holding. I don't think that the man on the Clapham omnibus would worry too much about how long an offender had to wait the issue is where. In my unreformed view, a portacabin, with a bucket lavatory would be more than adequate, provided it had a locked door. However, the Court area in general isn't suitable.

As to how much we'd be willing to pay - well, we were never asked, but our MP on our behalf seems to think the cost is acceptable. If we really wanted to save money, let's stop trying cases in court and do it on line!

Ironically, even in Civil Courts, there are heavies about, in the form of the Courts Bailiff, who will, if required, 'look after' those committed for contempt.

[Exhausted]

Yes, the whole issue is about the holding. I don't think that the man on the Clapham omnibus would worry too much about how long an offender had to wait the issue is where. In my unreformed view, a portacabin, with a bucket lavatory would be more than adequate, provided it had a locked door. However, the Court area in general isn't suitable. As to how much we'd be willing to pay - well, we were never asked, but our MP on our behalf seems to think the cost is acceptable. If we really wanted to save money, let's stop trying cases in court and do it on line! Ironically, even in Civil Courts, there are heavies about, in the form of the Courts Bailiff, who will, if required, 'look after' those committed for contempt.

Why can't they just call a cab. It would be commensurate with the quality of care they will be offered in HM prisons.

[gel]

Call in some Marshalls!

[MontyPython]

I see there is another case in the news today.
http://www.newburytoday.co.uk/2014/convict...m-newbury-court

What I can't understand is why the old method of holding them is not still used as the police station is still there!

Previously, police officers from the adjoining Newbury Police Station would have escorted defendants into a holding cell in an adjoining, state-of-the-art custody suite, purpose-built in 2009 at a cost of £2.3 million.

There does seem to be conflicting views as to how long it takes to collect the offender. (These from the same article)

Presiding magistrate Nicola Buchanan-Dunlop had to ask the defendant to wait within the court precincts until one arrived – a process that can take up to two hours.

A spokesman for Her Majesty’s Courts and Tribunals Service, Mark Kram, said: “The vast majority of cases heard at Newbury are non-custodial, so there is no requirement for a permanent prisoner escort presence at the court – cases are listed with this in mind.

“Where prisoner escort attendance is required a defendant may be required to wait – up to an hour maximum – on court premises for the prisoner escort to collect them.

However if the holding cells were still used I don't see the problem.

[Andy Capp]

The alternative to this is it closes. Which I'm sure will happen too long from now.

[blackdog]

However if the holding cells were still used I don't see the problem.

How do they get to the holding cells?

Give them a nice printed notice explaining the route to the cells and leave to them to find their own way?

[MontyPython]

How do they get to the holding cells?

Give them a nice printed notice explaining the route to the cells and leave to them to find their own way?

With a policeman as before

[blackdog]

With a policeman as before

If there was a policeman available this thread would never have started.

[MontyPython]

If there was a policeman available this thread would never have started.

There are quite a few next door - it would only take a few minutes for one to come over and lock the offender up - in some cases one may be there giving evidence.

I thought it was only the transport service provided by the private company that was removed

[blackdog]

There are quite a few next door - it would only take a few minutes for one to come over and lock the offender up - in some cases one may be there giving evidence.

I thought it was only the transport service provided by the private company that was removed

The police used to escort prisoners, but their role was privatised - so they are no longer involved, at all.

[Ruwan Uduwerage-...]

As someone who used to be involved as a young police officer in the tedious task of Court & Escort Duties I can assure you that a police officer is not necessary and to use them is a total waste of money and resources, so the privatisation of this role is not something that I lose any sleep over, but the loss of the Magistrates Court is different matter.

On the issue of Newbury Magistrates Court remaining open, I am a firmly support this, not merely because I believe that is it unacceptable to expect people living in the Western areas to travel to Reading for 'Justice', but also because fundamentally in the English Common Law tradition, going back to the Middle Ages, one has the right of 'trial by your peers' (your equals), and I would suggest that ones peers are in the case of someone say from. Lambourn, are people who understand the local culture, geography and demographics and not someone who merely has an urban experience.

For these and other reasons Newbury Town Council supports the retention of the Magistrates Courts locally.

Ruwan Uduwerage-Perera
Newbury Town Council - Councillor for Victoria Ward & Deputy Leader

[Andy Capp]

That's fair enough, but the next step will be to close the court, of that I am almost certain.

[Cognosco]

As someone who used to be involved as a young police officer in the tedious task of Court & Escort Duties I can assure you that a police officer is not necessary and to use them is a total waste of money and resources, so the privatisation of this role is not something that I lose any sleep over, but the loss of the Magistrates Court is different matter.

On the issue of Newbury Magistrates Court remaining open, I am a firmly support this, not merely because I believe that is it unacceptable to expect people living in the Western areas to travel to Reading for 'Justice', but also because fundamentally in the English Common Law tradition, going back to the Middle Ages, one has the right of 'trial by your peers' (your equals), and I would suggest that ones peers are in the case of someone say from. Lambourn, are people who understand the local culture, geography and demographics and not someone who merely has an urban experience.

For these and other reasons Newbury Town Council supports the retention of the Magistrates Courts locally.

Ruwan Uduwerage-Perera
Newbury Town Council - Councillor for Victoria Ward & Deputy Leader

But if there are no facilities or staff at the court to take people into custody if the Magistrates consider that appropriate then surely they must have already decided the outcome of the hearing?

So are we to assume, if the court does stay in use, if you appear before Newbury Magistrates you are not going to prison? There was I assuming that the Magistrates only decided the outcome of the hearing after listening to all sides but in Newbury they have already decided before the hearing it would seem

[blackdog]

But if there are no facilities or staff at the court to take people into custody if the Magistrates consider that appropriate then surely they must have already decided the outcome of the hearing?

So are we to assume, if the court does stay in use, if you appear before Newbury Magistrates you are not going to prison? There was I assuming that the Magistrates only decided the outcome of the hearing after listening to all sides but in Newbury they have already decided before the hearing it would seem

There is no pre-judgement, if there were then they might actually have an escort available. That they never have such excorts there is, in a way, proof that there is no pre-judgement.

The issue is with the Court Service (HMCS), who clearly want to close Newbury court because it costs them more than they want to pay. The solution could be to take local courts like this away from HMCS and give them back to local authorities.