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Corbyn, Quoting Shelley.. |
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Feb 5 2019, 12:21 AM
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QUOTE (newres @ Feb 4 2019, 09:45 PM) Don’t be daft.
The context was the statement that there hadn’t been a decent leader since John Smith. In that context we’ve had a Labour leader that won three general elections. I’d say by any definition that would qualify Blair as an extremely successful leader. If it wasn’t for Iraq he would have been an extremely successful PM. Whatever your politics I’d say the statement about Labour not a having decent leader since Smith is a bit ropey. He said 'decent' leader, by the definition Blair doesn't come close. Blair is now generally derided and disgraced. John Smith is still remembered with genuine affection and respect.
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Feb 5 2019, 12:56 PM
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QUOTE (SirWilliam @ Feb 5 2019, 10:18 AM) One could argue that Foot and Kinnock were leaders that showed promise but couldn't deliver what the electorate wanted; Blair recognised the flaw in socialism and exploited the corrupt tory underbelly to good effect, but in doing so made the fundamental mistake that effects most who reach the dizzy heights of a countries leader and that's the arrogance that clouds judgement.
A good party leader is not the same as a good PM and I can't remember a good PM, and that includes Churchill. I think it's difficult really to say one is good or one is bad. I think Gordon Brown was a man of integrity and principle and I thought John Major was a good PM. I liked them "personally" as far as I knew them, but I don't think I'm qualified to say someone was a good PM or not. Is there an objective way of doing so? It's undeniable that Churchill read the rise of fascism correctly in Europe and Chamberlain failed in his attempt at appeasement.
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Feb 5 2019, 12:58 PM
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QUOTE (SirWilliam @ Feb 5 2019, 10:18 AM) One could argue that Foot and Kinnock were leaders that showed promise but couldn't deliver what the electorate wanted; Blair recognised the flaw in socialism and exploited the corrupt tory underbelly to good effect, but in doing so made the fundamental mistake that effects most who reach the dizzy heights of a countries leader and that's the arrogance that clouds judgement.
A good party leader is not the same as a good PM and I can't remember a good PM, and that includes Churchill. I think his mistake was in getting too close to Bush. The emails suggest it was too close a relationship and that he put that relationship above British lives.
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Feb 6 2019, 09:20 AM
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QUOTE (newres @ Feb 5 2019, 12:58 PM) I think his mistake was in getting too close to Bush. The emails suggest it was too close a relationship and that he put that relationship above British lives. We have all, at some time in our lives, got too close to a "bush". Strange that here we vilify Blair over the middle east fiasco yet GW is seen as some benign elder statesman.
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Si non prius succederent.......... relinquere
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Feb 7 2019, 09:21 AM
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QUOTE (Strafin @ Feb 6 2019, 09:29 AM) GW? George Walker (Bush). Think he was USA president.
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Si non prius succederent.......... relinquere
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Feb 7 2019, 10:42 AM
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QUOTE (Strafin @ Feb 7 2019, 09:46 AM) Never heard hoim be referredto as just GW before, thanks for clarifying. Do you think he's regarded as an elder statesman? I thought he was disrespected just as much as trump. It was said at the time that when his staff took over, every keyboard in the Whitehouse had had the letter W prised off in protest. Just sayin.
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Gammon. And proud!
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Feb 7 2019, 11:14 AM
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QUOTE (Turin Machine @ Feb 7 2019, 10:42 AM) It was said at the time that when his staff took over, every keyboard in the Whitehouse had had the letter W prised off in protest. Just sayin. Although to be fair it was "Dubya" rather than GW. Great story that about the keyboards.
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