Litter Louts on the K&A Options

[andy1979uk]

Rubbish! It was only around for a few years, why are people so against a part time job these days??

A study found most students used EMA to go out drinking, anyone who thoght they should be paid to goto college is I'm afraid in lala land.

[x2lls]

You could use young offenders to pick up litter or people who are on job seakers but have turned down a job ?

You could use older offenders too.

Those that commit a crime should clear up after fellow criminals.

[Timbo]

A study found most students used EMA to go out drinking, anyone who thoght they should be paid to goto college is I'm afraid in lala land.

Do you have a link to this study?
And in balance, what is wrong with going out, if that's what they want. You are given the money to spend on equipment, trips etc, if you then choose to spend it on something else that's their choice. Like Tax Credits, if you don't need them why do you still receive them? They are not forced upon you.


@ Strafin:

Because it's not as easy being a student as it sounds. Not to patronise, I'm sure you were there at one point or another. But over the last 10 or so years, things have became exponentially more difficult for the younger adult in todays world.
Most students unfortunately do not have a car, unless they either had a chunk of money saved up or given to them (and no, before certain people go "oh they should work for it" - sometimes you need to help out your children, myself I would probably gift a car as an 18th or 21st birthday, depending on their situation, driving license, etc)

Anyway, as I said most do not have cars. So they have to bus everywhere. Even at Student rates, a bus ticket can be £15 or £20 a week. More if you have to go to a place like Basingstoke, or Reading. So straight away, that may/may not be a big chunk of what was the £30 they are given. You need to buy food or drinks when you are at college, believe it or not many run canteens but rather than providing value meals and snacks for learners, it's all about profit and even here a bottle of Fizzy Pop is £1, maybe more. In comparison it's no cheaper than a supermarket.

It's reasonable to want a mobile phone, as most young people have social lifes, something I feel many of the older ones are rather envious of (hence why the young people are "hanging around on the street corner", tell me just how do you know? Evenings and weekends, no-one is working anyway and if you saw them during the day, why aren't you at work? All the people who aren't "youths" are just at home, sat indoors on a sofa watching daytime TV, out of sight, out of mind for you?) and so a reasonable expense is to have a contract for their phones at £20-£30 a month.
In addition, it's reasonable to want to go out with your friends, whether that's bowling, cinema, or to the pub. I do not drink much personally, but I gather most of you do, and probably happily waste £20 down your local each time you visit.

If you are a full time student, that is often 9-4/4:30 followed by at least 2 or 3 hours of coursework per night. Do you know how I know, because I've set it in the past. Some days you finish college earlier but that's not a given.

In a way people can understand, how would you like to be at work for 9, and get home at 5, only to then have to go out to another job for another 3 or 4 hours? Not only that but, when you get home from THAT job, you have to beaver away on some assignment at an ungodly hour, without yet having time to eat, or shower, and by the time you finish what work you need to complete that evening, it's 2 or 3am, where you get a terrible night sleep and repeat the process all over again.

What is the big rush these days with expecting 16-18 year olds who are in full time education to ALSO have a job. Mr ****, headmaster at Kennet School, once said to me while we were having a discussion on how to try and tackle a problem, when I was there, about a large proportion of students who would come into school tired every day. Following on from that, in an upper years assembly (god how I don't miss those), he said something which has stuck with me since. I can't remember exactly, word for word, but it was something along the lines of

"So you may work in the evenings and at weekends, for a little bit of money now, but what's important is the future - the time and energy you use working for, frankly pennies in the real world, will account for nothing when you come to your examinations".

Obviously some people on here think that students are nothing more than programmed machines, who are able to stay up 24 hours a day and who have no need for a social life, personal time, or any time to eat, wash or sleep.
Some of you who sit there in your comfortable chair in your house, fully paid but bought when you could buy a 5 bedroom detached house for 20p, would not be able to last a day in the life of most students. That I would bet!

[On the edge]

A pretty good synopsys Timbo! Most of the reaction comes from my generation. The wrinklies. After our schooling - which in spite of the myths perpetuated was little different in any state school, save for the paper they gave you at the end, we had great choice. Schooling then didn't teach you to think; just remember rules by rote. You also learned you were always right - free expression. We were able to go to university for nothing and in those days it was little more than a three year break. Even the lecturers were lobbing bricks at anti war demos. Those of us who didn't realise this was an option could get full time well paid work; indeed a career. That, even in the gthen small private sector included a good pension - which even then caused complaints about the miniscule amounts deducted to pay for it. We didn't need council houses; not when a small flat or terrace cost just about three times your annual pay. We weren't satisfied with any of this so we sold it at the free market! In effect, just like the big bosses - our generation we sold out. So was it better in the old days - yes it really was but we were living on the deposit account. That's all gon e now. So rather than moaniong - we should be apologising.

[NORTHENDER]

Timbo, Edge. Thank you for some reality on this thread.

[Strafin]

I see where you are coming from, but don't lessons stop at Kennet School after 15:30? Also why do they "have" to buy food and drink from a contract caterer?

[Bloggo]

Anyone got any ideas how to stop morons littering?

[andy1979uk]

Anyone got any ideas how to stop morons littering?

I used to take pack lunches to school and college, also I used to work evening shifts in a DIY store. Never has a problem with being tired.

[NORTHENDER]

Its all to do with the mind set people have. In this country its chuck it down let someone else pick it up. In some other countries people seem to have a different mind set about litter IE they do not do it. The answer must be education from a very early age that stays with you throughout life. I even think people who throw fag ends down in the street should be hauled in front of the beak for littering. It must be instilled in people not to do it. May take a couple of generations but it can be rectified over time.

[andy1979uk]

Its all to do with the mind set people have. In this country its chuck it down let someone else pick it up. In some other countries people seem to have a different mind set about litter IE they do not do it. The answer must be education from a very early age that stays with you throughout life. I even think people who throw fag ends down in the street should be hauled in front of the beak for littering. It must be instilled in people not to do it. May take a couple of generations but it can be rectified over time.

People that dump fag ends often don't class it as litter, same for people who throw them out the window.

[Bloggo]

The problem is that there are sections of society that just don't give a da*m and there is no meaningful deterent to make them.
Which means that those that want to litter will continue to do so and others will continue to pick up after them.
That's the way it is until a decision is made to do something about it like enforcing the law. Or is that just to radical?

[Timbo]

I see where you are coming from, but don't lessons stop at Kennet School after 15:30? Also why do they "have" to buy food and drink from a contract caterer?

I was referring more to a someone who was in college or University, than Kennet (or any secondary school). Kennets Lessons do finish at 15:30 last time I checked but this is primarily for students below the age range we're mainly discussing.

And of course food and drink is not a necessity but it's a partly social occasion, and partly practical and easy.

[andy1979uk]

Do you have a link to this study?'ng out, if that's what they want. You are given the money to spend on equipment, trips etc, if you then choose to spend it on something else that's their choice. Like Tax Credits, if you don't need them why do you still receive them? They are not forced upon you. '

We don't receive tax credits, the whole tax system is wasteful and allows people to work part time and still continue having children. It needs a major overhaul.

Scrapping the EMA was a very obvious and sensible cut.

[Timbo]

I'm pretty sure before you said you got them but that you didn't rely on them?
We obviously have differing opinions, I've made my points why it was a shame to scrap EMA, I will leave it at that.

[andy1979uk]

I'm pretty sure before you said you got them but that you didn't rely on them?
We obviously have differing opinions, I've made my points why it was a shame to scrap EMA, I will leave it at that.

Am all for supporting students who want to try for disadvantaged backgrounds, sadly EMA was given to far too many people and largely wasted. I get child benefit, well my son does.

[Timbo]

EMA was only awarded to students who's family household income was less than £28k or something. It was then £15 per week up to around £35k. Roughly, that is.
Believe it or not, not all families support their children financially.

You said it was largely wasted, and there was a study; yet I've still not been shown this study you speak of?
Can you expand on your statements, you seem to say things without given examples or reasons to back them up. As for your child benefit, let's face it, the kid doesn't go out spending it does he?

[andy1979uk]

EMA was only awarded to students who's family household income was less than £28k or something. It was then £15 per week up to around £35k. Roughly, that is.
Believe it or not, not all families support their children financially.

You said it was largely wasted, and there was a study; yet I've still not been shown this study you speak of?
Can you expand on your statements, you seem to say things without given examples or reasons to back them up. As for your child benefit, let's face it, the kid doesn't go out spending it does he?

It was on the BBC news website, it was ineffective. A large percentage of the population were in favour of scrapping it due to the fact you should not need to be paid to goto school. My sons child benefit is saved, he will use it when he is older.

[Timbo]

You are not paid to go to College. The money is for covering the cost of equipment, trips and travel to and from;.
I do not think you should be paid to go to school but £120 a month is barely £1400 a year - a nominal amount, and is fair (in my opinion) for students who are going to College and University - which is not school!

If a student CHOOSES to work part time, then obviously they would get more money (as you're being paid, and not receiving EMA) but it depends on what each student can manage in terms of hours and levels of work.

[andy1979uk]

You are not paid to go to College. The money is for covering the cost of equipment, trips and travel to and from;.
I do not think you should be paid to go to school but £120 a month is barely £1400 a year - a nominal amount, and is fair (in my opinion) for students who are going to College and University - which is not school!

If a student CHOOSES to work part time, then obviously they would get more money (as you're being paid, and not receiving EMA) but it depends on what each student can manage in terms of hours and levels of work.

We never had it before and somehow I survived by working evening shifts, cost of travel? What is wrong with a bike ? Students these days really do want the moon on a stick.

[blackdog]

You are not paid to go to College. The money is for covering the cost of equipment, trips and travel to and from;.
I do not think you should be paid to go to school but £120 a month is barely £1400 a year - a nominal amount, and is fair (in my opinion) for students who are going to College and University - which is not school!

Forgive my ignorance but I thought EMA was paid to children going to school or sixth form college (ie school) aged 16-18, not university.