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> J.D.Wetherspoon carpark (AKA Hatchet)
royston
post Aug 30 2012, 07:40 AM
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Made the biggest mistake on Wed.went as usual to Hatchet for lunch,didnt have enough cash for parking meter so went in as usual to obtain cash but pub was very busy and only one person serving so it took a while to get served .when I got ticket and returned to car in their car park I found a penalty notice in my windscreen demanding £50. The operative must have been sitting in his/her vehicle and when I went into pub issued the ticket. Needless to say its highly improbable that I shall ever visit this pub again whilst they use these cowboy operators.
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Biker1
post Aug 30 2012, 08:07 AM
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QUOTE (royston @ Aug 30 2012, 08:40 AM) *
Made the biggest mistake on Wed.went as usual to Hatchet for lunch,didnt have enough cash for parking meter so went in as usual to obtain cash but pub was very busy and only one person serving so it took a while to get served .when I got ticket and returned to car in their car park I found a penalty notice in my windscreen demanding £50. The operative must have been sitting in his/her vehicle and when I went into pub issued the ticket. Needless to say its highly improbable that I shall ever visit this pub again whilst they use these cowboy operators.

Just ignore the ticket.
See if they take you to court.
Have a read here it may help.
Boycott the pub though, as I would.
Have you tried contacting the manager to see their take on it?
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Newbelly
post Aug 30 2012, 09:53 AM
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Lots of advice on the link given. Remember it is not a fine, only a demand for breach of contract.

Ignoring it, or offering a reasonable sum for parking, may well work.

Just in case you do end up in a fight, one thing I would do if I were you, and before memories fade or personnel change, is to find the bar person you spoke to and get a note recorded in that you asked them for change to pay for parking and then used the pub as a customer.

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Strafin
post Aug 30 2012, 09:55 AM
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I would contact the management as well, they may be able to do something. I parked there on Saturday night and didn't even realise that I could have been clamped.
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Biker1
post Aug 30 2012, 09:57 AM
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QUOTE (Strafin @ Aug 30 2012, 10:55 AM) *
I would contact the management as well, they may be able to do something. I parked there on Saturday night and didn't even realise that I could have been clamped.

Always read the small print Strafin! wink.gif
Remember, I got caught out by not doing that in a council "free" car park!
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Andy Capp
post Aug 30 2012, 11:41 AM
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Better still, just don't drive the Newbury.
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dannyboy
post Aug 30 2012, 11:53 AM
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QUOTE (Biker1 @ Aug 30 2012, 10:57 AM) *
Always read the small print Strafin! wink.gif
Remember, I got caught out by not doing that in a council "free" car park!

The signs in the Hatchet are pretty big.......
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Biker1
post Aug 30 2012, 12:13 PM
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QUOTE (dannyboy @ Aug 30 2012, 12:53 PM) *
The signs in the Hatchet are pretty big.......

Always read the large and small print Strafin! wink.gif
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Strafin
post Aug 30 2012, 01:19 PM
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I read two signs that said about cars being left at the owners risk and all that but nothing about clamping. I rarely drive into Newbury anyway, this just puts me off more.
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JeffG
post Aug 30 2012, 03:16 PM
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I thought clamping on private property had recently been outlawed.
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Strafin
post Aug 30 2012, 04:09 PM
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http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Nl1/Newsroom/DG_190178

From October - not long now!
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GMR
post Aug 30 2012, 05:00 PM
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QUOTE (royston @ Aug 30 2012, 08:40 AM) *
Made the biggest mistake on Wed.went as usual to Hatchet for lunch,didnt have enough cash for parking meter so went in as usual to obtain cash but pub was very busy and only one person serving so it took a while to get served .when I got ticket and returned to car in their car park I found a penalty notice in my windscreen demanding £50. The operative must have been sitting in his/her vehicle and when I went into pub issued the ticket. Needless to say its highly improbable that I shall ever visit this pub again whilst they use these cowboy operators.



You don't need to use the parking facilities in Newbury as their are plenty of free parking around.
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Simon Kirby
post Aug 30 2012, 05:46 PM
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I read that a parking fine in a private car park is enforced as breach of contract: but is there a contract? If you haven't paid then there's no consideration and so no contract, no?

If the parking fine is for breach of contract then the carpark can only demand what it lost (the cost of parking) and reasonable administration, no? I'd have thought £20 was top-whack for sticking a ticken on the car, no? £50 looks to me like a punative "fine", and that's not enforceable is it - I'm pretty sure it's not fair under the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999.

In principle you could complain to WBC Trading Standards that the £50 "fine" is an unfair term under the Unfair Terms in Consumner Contracts Regulations 1999, though I doubt you'll get much joy.

I expect the pub to waive the ticket if you can prove to them that you were in there getting change for the meter, though if you can't it's hard to say that the pub is being unreasonable by insisting that you pay up, though I think £50 is way too much.


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Andy Capp
post Aug 30 2012, 05:53 PM
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QUOTE (Simon Kirby @ Aug 30 2012, 06:46 PM) *
I expect the pub to waive the ticket if you can prove to them that you were in there getting change for the meter, though if you can't it's hard to say that the pub is being unreasonable by insisting that you pay up, though I think £50 is way too much.

I suspect the 'parking management' is out-sourced.
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Newbelly
post Aug 30 2012, 06:00 PM
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QUOTE (Simon Kirby @ Aug 30 2012, 06:46 PM) *
I read that a parking fine in a private car park is enforced as breach of contract: but is there a contract? If you haven't paid then there's no consideration and so no contract, no?

Simon

The "ticket" is not a fine.

Nice thinking, but a contract is not disabled because one party has not yet paid!
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Simon Kirby
post Aug 30 2012, 06:22 PM
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QUOTE (Newbelly @ Aug 30 2012, 07:00 PM) *
The "ticket" is not a fine.

I didn't want to say "parking ticket" because that's what I'd call the the little piece of paper you get from the machine, I thought "parking fine" better described the bigger bit of paper the operative puts on your windscreen. No, it's not a "fine" in the sense of a statutory parking fine, but if £50 is in excess of the loss due to the breach and a reasonable sum to cover administration, then it looks to me like a punative charge and I don't believe that's enforceable as it's an unfair contract term. What do you think?

QUOTE (Newbelly @ Aug 30 2012, 07:00 PM) *
Nice thinking, but a contract is not disabled because one party has not yet paid!

From what's been said that's right in this case because there was a firm and settled intention to park and pay for a ticket, but just say for argument's sake that I parked there fully intending not to pay - aren't I just a trespasser? Could the car park owner prove there was a contract in that situation?


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Andy Capp
post Aug 30 2012, 06:31 PM
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QUOTE (Simon Kirby @ Aug 30 2012, 07:22 PM) *
I didn't want to say "parking ticket" because that's what I'd call the the little piece of paper you get from the machine, I thought "parking fine" better described the bigger bit of paper the operative puts on your windscreen. No, it's not a "fine" in the sense of a statutory parking fine, but if £50 is in excess of the loss due to the breach and a reasonable sum to cover administration, then it looks to me like a punative charge and I don't believe that's enforceable as it's an unfair contract term. What do you think?

It also might depend on what Strafin's parking prevented from happening. Strafin might have stopped for a coke and a bag of crisps, but meanwhile prevented someone from parking who might be prepared to buy a slap-up meal.

QUOTE (Simon Kirby @ Aug 30 2012, 07:22 PM) *
From what's been said that's right in this case because there was a firm and settled intention to park and pay for a ticket, but just say for argument's sake that I parked there fully intending not to pay - aren't I just a trespasser? Could the car park owner prove there was a contract in that situation?

No, because intent to pay up for a contract, or not, doesn't invalidate the broken contract from being a basis from which to proceed.
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Simon Kirby
post Aug 30 2012, 06:47 PM
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QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Aug 30 2012, 07:31 PM) *
No, because intent to pay up for a contract, or not, doesn't invalidate the broken contract from being a basis from which to proceed.

There is case law that says that, in effect, if you don't intend to pay it's trespass and there is no contract - see Vine v Waltham Forest.


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Simon Kirby
post Aug 30 2012, 06:51 PM
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Lots more stuff here.


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Andy Capp
post Aug 30 2012, 07:00 PM
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QUOTE (Simon Kirby @ Aug 30 2012, 07:47 PM) *
There is case law that says that, in effect, if you don't intend to pay it's trespass and there is no contract - see Vine v Waltham Forest.

That is not true in this example. An appeal was successful because the appeal judge was satisfied that the person parking the car was unaware of the likelihood of being clamped if they parked without paying. If you park knowing that you might be clamped if you don't make the appropriate payment, you in effect agree to the condition.
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