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On the edge
post Nov 7 2017, 10:21 PM
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QUOTE (newres @ Nov 7 2017, 06:33 PM) *
I 100% disagree with almost all of that. Certainly the EU isn’t perfect. Neither is our own parliament/democracy. Look what’s happening now with the “sex” scandals. Ludicrous. Look at the unelected Lords. Look at lobbying scandals and so on. I think people understood that. What UKIP did was to shift the blame for everything to the EU including refugees from Syria which if anything are a product of US and UK interference in the Middle East.

Thatcher and Major weren’t anti EU. What about Maastricht? I’m not sure what the exact split is on Brexit but it wouldn’t surprise me if the majority of Tiry MPs weren’t remainers. I’m quite prepared to be wrong on that. You are probably right though that a majority of party members voted for Brexit, but given the age demographic and the nationalistic slant of the tories that’s no surprise.


Put it this way, the British public had been told for decades that any unpopular action was down to European directives and macinations. As for corruption, yes it happens at Westminiser but not on the industrial scale of Europe. Incredibly, for many years they haven't managed even the elementary book keeping needed to generate an auditablecset of accounts. At least we still can, and we've clamped down on our MPs over inflated expenses. Mrs Thatcher's resignation was all about her wanting to curb European expansion and Maastricht was Mr Major refusing to go along with new European directives. In both cases, hardly enthusiasm. I think more and more can now see that it's the World market that counts and Europe is therefore a trade barrier. We should be concentrating on the future now so we don't get caught by the swell as SS Europe starts to sink.


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TallDarkAndHands...
post Nov 7 2017, 10:45 PM
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QUOTE (On the edge @ Nov 7 2017, 10:21 PM) *
Put it this way, the British public had been told for decades that any unpopular action was down to European directives and macinations. As for corruption, yes it happens at Westminiser but not on the industrial scale of Europe. Incredibly, for many years they haven't managed even the elementary book keeping needed to generate an auditablecset of accounts. At least we still can, and we've clamped down on our MPs over inflated expenses. Mrs Thatcher's resignation was all about her wanting to curb European expansion and Maastricht was Mr Major refusing to go along with new European directives. In both cases, hardly enthusiasm. I think more and more can now see that it's the World market that counts and Europe is therefore a trade barrier. We should be concentrating on the future now so we don't get caught by the swell as SS Europe starts to sink.


You must be really thick. Stupid. Dense. Racist. And worst of all... White. Thought I'd beat Newres to it.😂
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je suis Charlie
post Nov 7 2017, 11:09 PM
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QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Nov 7 2017, 10:45 PM) *
You must be really thick. Stupid. Dense. Racist. And worst of all... White. Thought I'd beat Newres to it.😂

yes but, newres is 'Special'! ph34r.gif


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Turin Machine
post Nov 7 2017, 11:52 PM
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QUOTE (On the edge @ Nov 7 2017, 10:21 PM) *
Put it this way, the British public had been told for decades that any unpopular action was down to European directives and macinations. As for corruption, yes it happens at Westminiser but not on the industrial scale of Europe. Incredibly, for many years they haven't managed even the elementary book keeping needed to generate an auditablecset of accounts. At least we still can, and we've clamped down on our MPs over inflated expenses. Mrs Thatcher's resignation was all about her wanting to curb European expansion and Maastricht was Mr Major refusing to go along with new European directives. In both cases, hardly enthusiasm. I think more and more can now see that it's the World market that counts and Europe is therefore a trade barrier. We should be concentrating on the future now so we don't get caught by the swell as SS Europe starts to sink.

And of course you only need look towards Italy with its staggering levels of governmental corruption, greed and criminality. Proportional representation in action if you will.
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newres
post Nov 8 2017, 06:25 AM
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QUOTE (On the edge @ Nov 7 2017, 10:21 PM) *
Put it this way, the British public had been told for decades that any unpopular action was down to European directives and macinations. As for corruption, yes it happens at Westminiser but not on the industrial scale of Europe. Incredibly, for many years they haven't managed even the elementary book keeping needed to generate an auditablecset of accounts. At least we still can, and we've clamped down on our MPs over inflated expenses. Mrs Thatcher's resignation was all about her wanting to curb European expansion and Maastricht was Mr Major refusing to go along with new European directives. In both cases, hardly enthusiasm. I think more and more can now see that it's the World market that counts and Europe is therefore a trade barrier. We should be concentrating on the future now so we don't get caught by the swell as SS Europe starts to sink.

Yet Major voted remain and has campaigned for a second referendum.
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On the edge
post Nov 8 2017, 07:13 AM
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QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Nov 7 2017, 11:45 PM) *
You must be really thick. Stupid. Dense. Racist. And worst of all... White. Thought I'd beat Newres to it.😂

In a nutshell TDH! laugh.gif


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Mr Brown
post Nov 8 2017, 07:37 AM
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QUOTE (newres @ Nov 8 2017, 06:25 AM) *
Yet Major voted remain and has campaigned for a second referendum.


Yes, he did. A weather vane politician as always. Nonetheless, his signing of them famous treaty and his leaving the money arrangements show he was no great fan of Europe.
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Andy Capp
post Nov 8 2017, 09:08 AM
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QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Nov 6 2017, 06:20 PM) *
UK.

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2017/nov/0...paradise-papers
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Andy Capp
post Nov 8 2017, 09:18 AM
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The better educated tended to vote Remain! Lol

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/o...remain-pollster
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SirWilliam
post Nov 8 2017, 09:26 AM
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-41908774

Having trouble removing the vision of a BBC hack pursuing the Heir Apparent along the Mall over his off shore financial dealings laugh.gif
Like I said earlier ,whilst the papers are full of this non news the real problems facing May and her party are on the back burner .
Sacrifice a limb to save the body .


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Turin Machine
post Nov 8 2017, 10:32 AM
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QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Nov 8 2017, 09:18 AM) *
The better educated tended to vote Remain! Lol

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/o...remain-pollster

Opinion not 'science'.
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je suis Charlie
post Nov 8 2017, 11:58 AM
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QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Nov 8 2017, 09:18 AM) *
The better educated tended to vote Remain! Lol

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/o...remain-pollster

Ahh the Guardian, beacon of light for Libtards everywhere. Anyway, if it's where true AC must've voted to leave, at least twice.


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On the edge
post Nov 8 2017, 01:21 PM
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QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Nov 8 2017, 09:18 AM) *
The better educated tended to vote Remain! Lol

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/o...remain-pollster


I love these ungrounded statistics which some take as gospel truths. Normally takes a couple of questions about the source data and down goes the balloon.

The article itself throws doubt straightaway. 2 out of 3 graduates voted to stay. Now, as nearly everyone who can write their name can graduate these days and as 'informed thinking' from as far back as the early 1920s considered only 20% of the population had higher grade intelligence, without any differentiation, it could be extrapolated that the one third of graduates who voted to go were actually that higher intelligence percentile.

To illustrate, this is a good one, you can check the validity for yourselves. BMWs are a car of choice for poor people. Just count the number in Lidl car park. Lidl with such low prices is clearly aimed at poor people.

Anyway, I'm more than happy to be thick; don't think I'd have managed three years at Salford University on media or golf course studies!

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blackdog
post Nov 8 2017, 03:08 PM
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QUOTE (Mr Brown @ Nov 6 2017, 10:18 PM) *
The UK certainly isn't ruled by minority pressure groups, even though it might seem so on occasions. Of course pressure groups try and often succeed in influencing party policy; but party still rules. As we saw in the previous coalition, the LibDems had quite limited effect on government policy. In this government, the Unionists are actually a breed of Tory.


Political parties are minority pressure groups.
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Andy Capp
post Nov 8 2017, 05:57 PM
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QUOTE (Turin Machine @ Nov 8 2017, 10:32 AM) *
Opinion not 'science'.

Please see my next post; meanwhile, he actually said: “When you look at the people who voted remain, most of them were the better educated people in our country. Nearly all the university towns voted remain.”

Being better educated doesn't mean if you were not better educated, that you were thick; it is just some people getting all tizzy and twisting things.
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Andy Capp
post Nov 8 2017, 06:00 PM
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QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ Nov 8 2017, 11:58 AM) *
Ahh the Guardian, beacon of light for Libtards everywhere. Anyway, if it's where true AC must've voted to leave, at least twice.

It is not an opinion piece, but a matter of record and backed up by stats. I voted leave, but despite a near-grammer school education I'm thick, so the story might be true; fellow thicko! LOL


"But Peter Kellner, the former president of the YouGov polling firm, said Sheerman was factually correct.

“I would not use Barry Sheerman’s choice of words but the facts are broadly on his side,” Kellner told BBC Radio 4’s Today programme on Monday.

“Overall, people who left school at 15 or 16 voted around two to one for Brexit. [For] people who got up to A-level or equivalent qualification [it was] 50:50. Graduates voted two to one to remain in the EU.

“So yes, there is quite a clear educational gradient in the way people voted in last year’s referendum.”

Kellner pointed out that a similar education divide was seen in June’s general election."
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Andy Capp
post Nov 8 2017, 06:05 PM
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QUOTE (On the edge @ Nov 8 2017, 01:21 PM) *
I love these ungrounded statistics which some take as gospel truths. Normally takes a couple of questions about the source data and down goes the balloon.

The article itself throws doubt straightaway. 2 out of 3 graduates voted to stay. Now, as nearly everyone who can write their name can graduate these days and as 'informed thinking' from as far back as the early 1920s considered only 20% of the population had higher grade intelligence, without any differentiation, it could be extrapolated that the one third of graduates who voted to go were actually that higher intelligence percentile.

To illustrate, this is a good one, you can check the validity for yourselves. BMWs are a car of choice for poor people. Just count the number in Lidl car park. Lidl with such low prices is clearly aimed at poor people.

Anyway, I'm more than happy to be thick; don't think I'd have managed three years at Salford University on media or golf course studies!

biggrin.gif

Getting a good education doesn't guarantee intelligence. It is why investing in children with rich parents is a fallacy.

"You can take a man to the pub, but he might not want to get sloshed".
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je suis Charlie
post Nov 8 2017, 06:14 PM
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There's lies, damned lies, and then there's statistics. If someone tried you could 'prove' statistically that the sun revolves around the Earth. I particularly loved this gem;

"He said: “When you look at the people who voted remain, most of them were the better educated people in our country. Nearly all the university towns voted remain.”

Anybody else see the problem with that nugget of pseudo science? Like having a university in your town won't raise everybody's IQ, and University means students, they would all be too busy watching tellytubbys or getting wasted to turn out and vote. And a two year course in media studies won't make you another Einstein either.

I do love a good laugh, so carry on, please.


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On the edge
post Nov 8 2017, 07:19 PM
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QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Nov 8 2017, 06:05 PM) *
Getting a good education doesn't guarantee intelligence. It is why investing in children with rich parents is a fallacy.

"You can take a man to the pub, but he might not want to get sloshed".


Couldn't agree more. My issue is with those who extrapolate sample data elements and then make ungrounded assumptions and then try to convince everyone that their assumptions are scientific fact. Often very funny; but then I'm of the generation who saw Professor Stanley Unwin!


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je suis Charlie
post Nov 8 2017, 07:25 PM
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QUOTE (On the edge @ Nov 8 2017, 07:19 PM) *
Couldn't agree more. My issue is with those who extrapolate sample data elements and then make ungrounded assumptions and then try to convince everyone that their assumptions are scientific fact. Often very funny; but then I'm of the generation who saw Professor Stanley Unwin!

laugh.gif


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