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> Bus station only moving so developer can make more money, it is only viable if they can develop the entire site!
Andy Capp
post Oct 19 2015, 11:24 AM
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laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif

Another piece of magnificent negotiation from our Muppets of Market Street.

http://www.newburytoday.co.uk/news/news/16...-developer.html
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Strafin
post Oct 19 2015, 11:40 AM
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If people will keep voting Tory....
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Andy Capp
post Oct 19 2015, 01:26 PM
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So the poor developer cannot make a good profit even when the land is as good a free? If so, how is that?
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Cognosco
post Oct 19 2015, 01:50 PM
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QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Oct 19 2015, 12:24 PM) *
laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif

Another piece of magnificent negotiation from our Muppets of Market Street.

http://www.newburytoday.co.uk/news/news/16...-developer.html


So the new supposedly Gateway into Newbury is not actually a Gateway as you now have to trek from the Train Station to the Bus Station, instead of them being adjacent, if you wish to travel any distance villages etc that is not accessible by train and don't wish to have the expense of a taxi?

Just imagine if you requested a quotation for someone to come and tidy up your garden or whatever and the answer was "well you will have to give me the land" ? blink.gif

What is going to happen when all the land has been given away? blink.gif

Would it have not been of more value to Newbury to give the land to a Housing Association and let them build desperately wanted social housing on the land? I know of several youg couples who are not earning too bad a wage but still unable to afford a mortgage or private rents!
Why more retail units as Parkway and the Kennet Centre are still far from full? rolleyes.gif


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je suis Charlie
post Oct 19 2015, 02:32 PM
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Let them eat cake? They're building us a new bus station for heanens sake, can't they find a nice warm bench there!
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Andy Capp
post Oct 19 2015, 02:53 PM
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QUOTE (Cognosco @ Oct 19 2015, 02:50 PM) *
So the new supposedly Gateway into Newbury is not actually a Gateway as you now have to trek from the Train Station to the Bus Station, instead of them being adjacent, if you wish to travel any distance villages etc that is not accessible by train and don't wish to have the expense of a taxi?

Just imagine if you requested a quotation for someone to come and tidy up your garden or whatever and the answer was "well you will have to give me the land" ? blink.gif

What is going to happen when all the land has been given away? blink.gif

Would it have not been of more value to Newbury to give the land to a Housing Association and let them build desperately wanted social housing on the land? I know of several youg couples who are not earning too bad a wage but still unable to afford a mortgage or private rents!
Why more retail units as Parkway and the Kennet Centre are still far from full? rolleyes.gif

Hear, hear! Although that would jeopardise the promised flats earmarked for 'je suis Charlie's mates. tongue.gif

It is easy to see the real reason for the lack of affordable housing when you see councils Like West Berkshire Council misusing (in my opinion) public spaces like this. And it is also no-wonder we have a feeble public transport infrastructure when you have the same council overseeing that too.
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Cognosco
post Oct 19 2015, 03:41 PM
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QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ Oct 19 2015, 03:32 PM) *
Let them eat cake? They're building us a new bus station for heanens sake, can't they find a nice warm bench there!


Yes but not near the supposed Gateway of Newbury and of course it will be back to making it less accessible for buses to negotiate to and from..........but as usual all thoughts are for the poor Developer and the Council just rolls over as usual! angry.gif

I wonder what the final cost for ratepayers will be this time when the plans considerably alter before completion and things don't quite go as projected? rolleyes.gif

Still I suppose it will give us something else to admire as we are stuck in the traffic jams for hours as there is a complete lack of planned infrastructure to cope with all this land giving away! rolleyes.gif


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GMR
post Oct 19 2015, 04:36 PM
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QUOTE (Strafin @ Oct 19 2015, 12:40 PM) *
If people will keep voting Tory....





With Corbyn leading Labour you don't need much pushing for people to vote Tory at the next election. wink.gif

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MontyPython
post Oct 19 2015, 05:59 PM
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What, the motto from our beloved council

"Newbury a nice place to live - but fecking horrible to travel in by either car or public transport"
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Simon Kirby
post Oct 19 2015, 06:16 PM
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QUOTE (Strafin @ Oct 19 2015, 12:40 PM) *
If people will keep voting Tory....

Amen brother.


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On the edge
post Oct 19 2015, 06:39 PM
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What's the point of having a bus station when there are so few buses?

Have as many bus stations as you like, but without the buses, you aren't going to get anywhere...literally! I don't really think we can blame the abysmal public transport provision in Newbury on this or any other developer. That's down to us and our Council.

In any event, a 'bus station' is the last thing we need. Its a place where buses park up. We need something where they are constantly calling and moving on....a bus stop. Most other towns have reasonably modern ones; which actually tells the prospective passenger when the next bus will arrive. Ironic, that in the nations communications capital we can't even do that. Ah, perhaps that's because they've also noticed we have no buses!

I'd certainly agree with the comments about giving away the land and love the front garden analogy! However, if the neighbours want you to tidy your garden to make the area look better and you've been spending all your spare cash on attempting to repair your derelict shed and threatening to sue your neighbour because his dripping WC overflow might have damaged your daffs, you don't have much choice; particularly when you've also lost all that overtime you had coming in.

So, the real answer is that the development is primarily residential. That means the prospects will be able to jump on and off trains, do their little bit of shopping, go for a nice walk all without needing a car or a bus. You've reached Newbury - sleep tight!


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Andy Capp
post Oct 19 2015, 07:24 PM
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QUOTE (On the edge @ Oct 19 2015, 07:39 PM) *
What's the point of having a bus station when there are so few buses?

Have as many bus stations as you like, but without the buses, you aren't going to get anywhere...literally! I don't really think we can blame the abysmal public transport provision in Newbury on this or any other developer. That's down to us and our Council.

In any event, a 'bus station' is the last thing we need. Its a place where buses park up. We need something where they are constantly calling and moving on....a bus stop. Most other towns have reasonably modern ones; which actually tells the prospective passenger when the next bus will arrive. Ironic, that in the nations communications capital we can't even do that. Ah, perhaps that's because they've also noticed we have no buses!

I'd certainly agree with the comments about giving away the land and love the front garden analogy! However, if the neighbours want you to tidy your garden to make the area look better and you've been spending all your spare cash on attempting to repair your derelict shed and threatening to sue your neighbour because his dripping WC overflow might have damaged your daffs, you don't have much choice; particularly when you've also lost all that overtime you had coming in.

So, the real answer is that the development is primarily residential. That means the prospects will be able to jump on and off trains, do their little bit of shopping, go for a nice walk all without needing a car or a bus. You've reached Newbury - sleep tight!

Correct (in the main) but that wasn't the point of the post: how is it that a developer cannot make a decent wad from a bit of land in the middle of Newbury when they have already been given it for free!
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Cognosco
post Oct 19 2015, 08:49 PM
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QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Oct 19 2015, 08:24 PM) *
Correct (in the main) but that wasn't the point of the post: how is it that a developer cannot make a decent wad from a bit of land in the middle of Newbury when they have already been given it for free!


Yes but is it only the Developer that has to make money from it? rolleyes.gif


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On the edge
post Oct 19 2015, 09:27 PM
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QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Oct 19 2015, 08:24 PM) *
Correct (in the main) but that wasn't the point of the post: how is it that a developer cannot make a decent wad from a bit of land in the middle of Newbury when they have already been given it for free!


In the main, most developers are very highly geared. Their money is actually borrowed, dependent on the risk, at top end rates. They'll need to spend most of it up front and effectively doing nothing until the place is built and ready to sell. The rewards might well be high, but so are the risks. I'm sure you know that and one would have to believe our Council does as well.

Nothing wrong with pump priming, but the land need not have be given away, there are several other pretty obvious ways of using the land as a contribution, at worse, taking equity in the business for it. From what we've been told, it looks as if they haven't done that; which must suggest desperation. Not a good tactic and we know from experience locally just what that means from now on.

How many of us have written to our local Councillors asking these question? I haven't heard reports of any debate or serious discussion in the Council chamber. That must suggest our Councillors believe the majority of us are at least satisfied as things stand.


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Andy Capp
post Oct 19 2015, 10:48 PM
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QUOTE (On the edge @ Oct 19 2015, 10:27 PM) *
In the main, most developers are very highly geared. Their money is actually borrowed, dependent on the risk, at top end rates. They'll need to spend most of it up front and effectively doing nothing until the place is built and ready to sell. The rewards might well be high, but so are the risks. I'm sure you know that and one would have to believe our Council does as well.

Of course.

Again, I cannot believe that land is not worth anything to the council! It seems incredible; ridiculous even.
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GrumblingAgain
post Oct 20 2015, 11:29 AM
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QUOTE (Simon Kirby @ Oct 19 2015, 07:16 PM) *
Amen brother.

I would still rather vote Tory than the useless Lib Dems and would never, ever vote for Labour.
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Andy Capp
post Oct 20 2015, 11:38 AM
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QUOTE (GrumblingAgain @ Oct 20 2015, 12:29 PM) *
I would still rather vote Tory than the useless Lib Dems and would never, ever vote for Labour.

There's the start of the problem when people vote for parties rather than personalities at local level.
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Strafin
post Oct 21 2015, 07:41 AM
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QUOTE (GrumblingAgain @ Oct 20 2015, 12:29 PM) *
I would still rather vote Tory than the useless Lib Dems and would never, ever vote for Labour.

Never say never!

I was a Tory councillor but I voted Labour last election. I thought it was the right thing to do.
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blackdog
post Oct 21 2015, 10:12 AM
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QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ Oct 19 2015, 03:32 PM) *
Let them eat cake? They're building us a new bus station for heanens sake, can't they find a nice warm bench there!

Are they? Who is?

I've seen no plans, not even any promises of a new bus station - just a statement that the bus station will move to the wharf. What will this bus station look like? A load of buses parked on some tarmac and a little shelter to allow a few passengers to get out of the rain - anything more?

OTE is right, bus stations are largely speaking redundant - just look at how busy the current one isn't. The current situation is pretty poor - put a decent sized bus stop on Market St and it would be no worse with the new development. It's the lost opportunity that is a waste - even it the old chestnut about an integrated transport hub has flaws (notably the lack of bus services). If WBC are going to give away the land they should ensure that the redevelopment of the area improves things for Newbury, it should not just be about profit.

Has anyone else noticed that there will be fewer parking spaces in this wonderful new development than are available on the site now? So the hundreds of new residents will have no parking? Or WBC employees will have to pay to park in town - or get free parking in the existing parks, filling up spaces currently used by shoppers? Or the number of commuters using the station is going to fall?



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Andy Capp
post Oct 21 2015, 10:49 AM
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QUOTE (blackdog @ Oct 21 2015, 11:12 AM) *
Are they? Who is?

I've seen no plans, not even any promises of a new bus station - just a statement that the bus station will move to the wharf. What will this bus station look like? A load of buses parked on some tarmac and a little shelter to allow a few passengers to get out of the rain - anything more?

OTE is right, bus stations are largely speaking redundant - just look at how busy the current one isn't. The current situation is pretty poor - put a decent sized bus stop on Market St and it would be no worse with the new development. It's the lost opportunity that is a waste - even it the old chestnut about an integrated transport hub has flaws (notably the lack of bus services). If WBC are going to give away the land they should ensure that the redevelopment of the area improves things for Newbury, it should not just be about profit.

Has anyone else noticed that there will be fewer parking spaces in this wonderful new development than are available on the site now? So the hundreds of new residents will have no parking? Or WBC employees will have to pay to park in town - or get free parking in the existing parks, filling up spaces currently used by shoppers? Or the number of commuters using the station is going to fall?

West Berks Council's philosophy seems to be to heck with what would be a benefit, so long as it looks nice. Sadly this current bunch of Muppets are flogging assets for vanity's sake.
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