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> The Greens
Simon Kirby
post Sep 12 2012, 05:39 PM
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It came up in another thread, but the Green Party's profile has been raised lately with their election of a new leader, and Brighton elected a Green MP last time around so they are a credible national party now, and it won't have escaped you that their local party activist is a reasonably active contributor to this forum.

The party is a little left-wing for me but it also uniquely represents very many of the values that are important to me such as fairness, decency, and openness. It has strong support for tradesunionism which is important to me, and of course is very strong on its founding values of sustainability, and while I'm not an environmental hairshirtist, I feel passionately about the need to protect our natural environment and its wildlfe, and as an allotmenteer and vegetarian I not surprisingly have firm views on farming and food production which put me firmly in the Green camp.

If you want to understand what they stand for you can read about it here.

I'm not happy with how the Tories nationally are listing aimlessly to the right, I'm unimpressed with Labour's inability to mount an effective opposition, and I despair at the local self-serving establishment lib dem and tory toadies, so I would be pleased to see the Greens locally up their game.


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Strafin
post Sep 12 2012, 05:58 PM
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I am very right wing, but I welcome the activity and positive affect that the minority parties seem to be stirring up. They also chuck a few new ideas in as well.
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Andy Capp
post Sep 12 2012, 06:06 PM
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I have no party allegiance and hold views that swing between right and left. I see a change in the political system as more pressing that a change of management. We had a chance a while back with the voting system but people were to ignorant to understand or acknowledge the advantages. Others knew all too well what was at hand and tried their best to campaign against it.
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Penelope
post Sep 12 2012, 06:06 PM
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I belong to the hang em high strain of politics myself. I just have visions of being told personal transport is the Devil's tool by someone who then drives off in their range rover. It's all a bit too hypocritical for my taste. Don't want to argue about it, just my point of view. Meanwhile kudos to Simon for the new thread.
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On the edge
post Sep 12 2012, 06:15 PM
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The base idea of parties is to try gather like minds - meaning you won't agree with every detail. Such is politics. So if the basic principles are right - why not? We've had same old same old from the two main stream parties for far too long and their LibDim camp followers are simply maintaining the status quo; agreeing with everyone. The Greens are at least promoting a wholly different solution - might just break the deadlock. Seem to have done well for Germany.

NB You should try the dead horse I've been on - Coop Labour.


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Andy Capp
post Sep 12 2012, 06:24 PM
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It's not politics or even party's that are the problem; it is the people who do and don't vote for them.
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Simon Kirby
post Sep 12 2012, 06:25 PM
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QUOTE (Penelope @ Sep 12 2012, 07:06 PM) *
I belong to the hang em high strain of politics myself. I just have visions of being told personal transport is the Devil's tool by someone who then drives off in their range rover. It's all a bit too hypocritical for my taste. Don't want to argue about it, just my point of view. Meanwhile kudos to Simon for the new thread.

Thanks Penny. As it is, personal transport is one of the things I also like, and I know it has an environmental impact, but the convenience and indulgence of being able to drive out for the day just for the pleasure of it is worth so much to me. I don't drive a personal 4x4, but if I could afford to I would, with a big feck-off V8. That all consumes copious amounts of energy, and that's the problem, both the CO2, and perhaps even more ominously the problem of peak oil. For me the answer is to replace coal, gas, and oil with native renewables, but with Patterson at Environment that doesn't have a chance, but I'm also unimpressed with the Green's hairshirt approach to the energy crisis.


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Simon Kirby
post Sep 12 2012, 06:25 PM
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*oppsie - double post*


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On the edge
post Sep 12 2012, 08:19 PM
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QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Sep 12 2012, 07:24 PM) *
It's not politics or even party's that are the problem; it is the people who do and don't vote for them.

Good point but how do you motivate them?


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Andy Capp
post Sep 12 2012, 08:26 PM
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QUOTE (On the edge @ Sep 12 2012, 09:19 PM) *
Good point but how do you motivate them?

I'm not sure. I'm not even sure if democracy is necessarily all it is cracked up to be. Especially the commercialised version we have today.
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On the edge
post Sep 12 2012, 08:52 PM
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QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Sep 12 2012, 09:26 PM) *
I'm not sure. I'm not even sure if democracy is necessarily all it is cracked up to be. Especially the commercialised version we have today.


I don't think you are alone with that view which is a bit of a worry - specially as the alternatives don't seem very palatable.


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Ron
post Sep 12 2012, 11:01 PM
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QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Sep 12 2012, 09:26 PM) *
I'm not sure. I'm not even sure if democracy is necessarily all it is cracked up to be. Especially the commercialised version we have today.

I came to Newbury in the early 1960s to work directly for the then MD of Plenty. I remember him passing a comment about democracy. He said it was ‘a system to live by for those that could afford’.
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Biker1
post Sep 13 2012, 08:22 AM
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QUOTE (Ron @ Sep 13 2012, 12:01 AM) *
I came to Newbury in the early 1960s to work directly for the then MD of Plenty. I remember him passing a comment about democracy. He said it was ‘a system to live by for those that could afford’.

And the alternative to democracy is?
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Strafin
post Sep 13 2012, 08:35 AM
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Dictatorship, Communism, Monarchy rule, and maybe even peoples co-operative?
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Biker1
post Sep 13 2012, 08:42 AM
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QUOTE (Strafin @ Sep 13 2012, 09:35 AM) *
Dictatorship, Communism, Monarchy rule, and maybe even peoples co-operative?

I can't see any of those being preferable except maybe the latter though how it would work, taking into account people's natural greed, I'm not sure.
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JeffG
post Sep 13 2012, 10:18 AM
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Isn't "communism" in its purest form a people's cooperative? I am not referring to Communism as implemented by China and the former USSR.

It seems the many Americans think we are all communists over here for having a National Health Service, judging by the reaction to Obama's attempted reforms, which I still don't understand (the reaction, not the reforms).
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Strafin
post Sep 13 2012, 12:47 PM
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QUOTE (Biker1 @ Sep 13 2012, 09:42 AM) *
I can't see any of those being preferable except maybe the latter though how it would work, taking into account people's natural greed, I'm not sure.

You didn't ask for preferable!
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Biker1
post Sep 13 2012, 02:16 PM
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QUOTE (Strafin @ Sep 13 2012, 01:47 PM) *
You didn't ask for preferable!

No, but some were saying that democracy isn't working thus implying there may be something better.
Or does it just need improving upon?
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JeffG
post Sep 13 2012, 02:34 PM
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The main problem with democracy is that everyone gets a vote. (Well, almost everyone.)
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Andy Capp
post Sep 13 2012, 04:38 PM
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QUOTE (Biker1 @ Sep 13 2012, 03:16 PM) *
No, but some were saying that democracy isn't working thus implying there may be something better. Or does it just need improving upon?

It is not that is is not working, only that it is faulty.

Philosophically speaking, why is it assumed that mankind is best served by democracy?
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