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Posted by: Berkshirelad Nov 24 2011, 08:52 PM

I note in NWN that the proposed public sector strike may, among other things, cause bins not to be emptied.

Why? Waste collection is contracted out to a private company, who regardless of striking workers are contracted to to undertake bin emptying. If this means Veolia management out on the lorries, then so be it.

Posted by: Cognosco Nov 25 2011, 05:35 PM

They will just leave the bins and not empty them! None of the lids were closed?

Apperetnly if the refuse collectors are running behind they just say didn't empty them the lids were not closed?

Posted by: xjay1337 Nov 28 2011, 09:04 AM

That is a true point; they are a private company paid for by the public sector so they are not allowed to strike. People strike first and actually consider the ramifications later. Shame really..

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Nov 28 2011, 12:47 PM

Quite simply Private Sector workers should not serve Public Sector workers if they strike.
If Private sector workers 'strike' they'll be out of a job.
See how Public Sector workers get on without going to the bank, supermarket and pub.

Posted by: blackdog Nov 28 2011, 01:40 PM

What utter rot.

Those who work for private companies have exactly the same right to strike as most public sector workers (the exception being the public sector workers who are not allowed to strike - police, army, etc). If the Veolia workers are affected by the pension proposals (those transferred over from the LGA pension scheme may well be) and their union has balloted them on strike action and otherwise fulfilled the requirements of the law then they are within their rights to strike.

Actually it doesn't really matter what their reasons are as long as the union has followed the correct bureaucratic procedures.

Posted by: xjay1337 Nov 28 2011, 02:21 PM

Read what I said and then read your comment and wonder why I applied my palm to my face.

It's a private company which are performing work contracted to them by the public sector. The public sector strikes are not pertanant to a private sector employee. And if Mr Director can't keep control of his staff I'll be expecting him to empty my bin.

The point is striking is often selfish, for example the BA stuff. OK what happened to them was bad but when hundreds of thousands of people trying to get on holiday the strike people basically said "we don't care about them it's all about us and until we get what we want everyone else can bugger off".

Basically saying their needs and requirements are more important that those of thousands of people globally. Selfish, selfish people.

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Nov 28 2011, 02:37 PM

I agree. How many private sector worked are going to be b****red about by striking teachers? They should withdraw all the concessions on pensions they have already offered them and hit em really hard. Stuff em.

Posted by: Bloggo Nov 28 2011, 02:45 PM

Me too. This strike will only hurt the people that pay towards these selfish public sector workers pensions.
If you think of all of the people that this ill conceived strike hit it for all sorts of reasons is appalling. They get no sympathy from me.

Posted by: On the edge Nov 28 2011, 07:03 PM

Rather a lot - particularly those who have had to give up a day's leave or pay to look after them. Closing schools outside the usual timetable causes massive disruption. Particularly with those least able to make good; married women working part time. With their over generous holidays and quite respectable pay, not very wise of the teaching 'profession' to do this.

Posted by: user23 Nov 28 2011, 07:58 PM

This is untrue.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-13368142

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2010/jul/05/bt-braced-for-strike-vote

You can't be sacked for going on strike in the private or public sector (bar the exceptions someone else has already pointed out), if it's done legally.

Posted by: Simon Kirby Nov 28 2011, 10:00 PM

Yes, I'm afraid you can be sacked. In the situation you describe it'll be an automatic unfair dismissal and you can claim compensation from an Industrial Tribunal, though you might be surprised how little you end up with. It's not unknown for employers to sack their striking employees and then offer most of them their jobs back, as the cost of compensation is offset by the harsh terms the employeer dictates and a broken, compliant workforce, not to mention the inevitable de-unionisation that follows on a failed dispute.

Posted by: user23 Nov 28 2011, 10:11 PM

As I understand it, if one's employers try to sack you in these circumstances, with automatic unfair dismissal you can request re-instatement which means you'll be back in your old job.

Posted by: Simon Kirby Nov 28 2011, 10:19 PM

Yes, it's technically possible for the tribunal to make an order, but in practice it's quite unusual. I think the tribunal tends to feel that the fundamental relationship has broken down and re-instatement isn't an option - essentially if the employer was in any way prepared to take the employee back they'd have done that already without taking things as far as an ET.

Posted by: Bofem Nov 28 2011, 10:57 PM

Divide and rule. Just what the Tories want

Posted by: GrumblingAgain Nov 29 2011, 08:03 AM

Yawn.

Posted by: xjay1337 Nov 29 2011, 09:36 AM

What about divide and conquer?

No-one expects the Spanish inquisition.

Posted by: Simon Kirby Nov 29 2011, 10:17 AM

Machiavelli was Itallian, not Spanish.

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Nov 29 2011, 10:56 AM

Are Public Sector workers that work tomorrow 'Scabs'?

Posted by: xjay1337 Nov 29 2011, 11:20 AM

Well I'm playing Asassains Creed Brotherhood I should know that. silly moment.

Posted by: Nothing Much Nov 29 2011, 01:22 PM

Comfy chair is on your dooooorstep,xjay
whilst you play.

No one expects the Spanish Inquisition.
Let alone citizens of the Holy Roman Empire.
Poor folk from the areas now known as Belgium
took a hammering. Smithfield saw a few burnings.

Back to strike action. I think it is wrong in these days.
Most people are supported if they fall off the radar.

My wife became ill in 2008, operated in UCLH
She made comments which were noted. NHS night agency staff at UCH,
Ignoring the buzzer overnight led to an emergency operation
in the CAT scan room. A 63 year old at the time. Not that old.
And a bright minded, Parliamentary Lobbyist. Not one to take things lightly.
There is a silly picture of me outside N0 10 . The police let me through and
a policeman took my photo by the Christmas Tree..

She was very cross when called to discuss how her 8 weeks in ICU
had gone. Sadly those 8 weeks after the nightime problem
were a morphine induced coma.


There is always a light side to a disaster. A younger sister insisted on visiting..
Took one look at a porly person and passed out! The nurse who are there 24 hrs
shouted press the red button. In less than a minute there were 10 specialists

She got a checking over as well. My lady was morphined out

Posted by: xjay1337 Nov 29 2011, 02:44 PM

Both a mixture of sadness and hilarity in your above post, an interesting read.

Posted by: part time Nov 30 2011, 09:04 AM

Got a lovely day for it haven't they!

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Nov 30 2011, 09:37 AM

Yep. Some I know are playing Golf. They don't want to waste the day on the picket line.

Posted by: Bloggo Nov 30 2011, 09:45 AM

It is probably difficult to tell whether they are on strike or not in some cases.

Posted by: xjay1337 Nov 30 2011, 10:19 AM

How about "if you strike in the public sector you lose your job".

Seems fair since the world cannot accommodate their every whim. They get a matched contribution of their pension so they are getting x % free money, the selfish gits need to shut their face.

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Nov 30 2011, 10:31 AM

Fundamentally they have chosen the wrong time to Strike. People in the Private sector mostly feel that they are taking the p!$$.

Posted by: Bloggo Nov 30 2011, 10:35 AM

If public sector workers believe that they are not getting the deal that they want then they should resign and get a job elswhere where they are happy rather than making life very difficult for many other people. This "ganging up" against the rest of us is wrong.

Posted by: blackdog Nov 30 2011, 01:17 PM

What makes the public sector different to the private in terms of rights? Or should no one be allowed to strike?


Most (all?) company pension schemes include an employer's contribution - the problem with the main civil service scheme is that it has never been set up as a pension fund - instead the government has taken all the contributions (notional and real) straight into the Treasury and spent them. If there had been a fund the unions would be unable to argue against change based on affordability - they would be part of the fund management.

All strikes these days seem to be employees attempting to stop their employers taking away something that will leave the employee worse off - selfish if you like, but not that surprising. And the employers almost always win.

Cameron is probably the most pleased about this strike - a chance to gain back a few much needed points in the opinion polls.

Posted by: xjay1337 Nov 30 2011, 01:44 PM

The terms laid out to them are clear and written in their employment contract. These are teachers, council workers, people who AS PART OF THEIR JOB, serve the public. By striking they are refusing to fufil their duties thus should be eligible for disciplinary procedures. I mean what the heck, teachers get 8-10 weeks holiday, most rock up at 8:30 and go home at 4, are paid £25k or so a year (so more than the average salary, I know some teachers on £30k+ after a couple of years) for saying the same thing 4 or 5 times a day to different groups of pepole at different levels based on their age.. They learn one thing and then spend all day sharing their knowledge...it's not a "hard" job. Childrens education is more important than ever and they are more worried about their precious money and closing schools because they're selfish.

Now I get a day short of 3 weeks holiday, nowhere near £25k and do 9-5:30!! And I'm more qualified than my IT teacher was at school...so..go figure. So many people in the private sector are paid less than those in public and yet we don't moan and complain and strike..

Now I'm not saying they are not allowed to strike. They are, but pick suitable times to do it. Everyone is having to cut back and frankly they have it the best out of anyone; ample holiday, good pay, etc.

I'm saying that their selfishness is second to none at this point. We in the private sector partially pay their wages with our NI contributions and taxes. Yes, they likely pay taxes too and thus contribute to each others wages but there are more in the private sector paying high tax than there are in the public..

Posted by: blackdog Nov 30 2011, 02:13 PM

So shopworkers, train drivers, etc. etc who work in the private sector and serve the public should have their right to strike removed?


Striking is a legal way of temporarily refusing to do your job - and is quite rightly exempt from disciplinary proceedures.



So why on earth don't you get a job as a teacher?


Surely the best time to strike is when it has an effect? I suspect that, if this dispute runs on the striking will become a lot more selective - bring out the Inland Revenue or the Cabinet Office, not the teachers or binmen - minimal impact on Joe Public, maximum impact on the Government. A day like today is about demonstrating the breadth of support the unions have.


Ever thought why there are more in the private sector paying high tax? Hint - it's because they get paid higher wages.

Posted by: Vodabury Nov 30 2011, 03:00 PM

You are out of date with this comment. Why do some people think all those in the private sector are on higher salaries? - most are not and many private sector workers are on minimum wage or thereabouts.

Posted by: Biker1 Nov 30 2011, 03:14 PM

Are the bins being emptied today?

If not does this put the rest of the week out?
Mine is supposed to be tomorrow.

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Nov 30 2011, 03:19 PM

Agreed.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2011/jul/05/public-private-pay-gap-widens

Posted by: Nothing Much Nov 30 2011, 04:23 PM

Hey ho ...not have a real reply to the strikes.

A thread on archives. My Uncle was communist
his brother a Telegraph reader.Funny how family works out

You can find the plan to take over the Electricans Union.
They planned to shut everything down. Governmemt as well

Posted by: massifheed Nov 30 2011, 04:47 PM

Huh?

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Nov 30 2011, 04:50 PM

I think its called copious amounts of marijuana.......

Posted by: spartacus Nov 30 2011, 05:17 PM

Our bins were emptied today. There should be no disruption.

Posted by: user23 Nov 30 2011, 05:17 PM

You think all teachers on strike today should resign?

This would mean that most schools would be closed for quite a length of time, and some permanently given it would be impossible to find tens of thousands of new teachers to fill their jobs.

By the way, "ganging up" in the past gained most of us

• Two-day weekends
• Eight-hour working days
• Maternity leave
• Retirement ages
• Occupational health and safety
• Workplace pensions
• Paid holidays
• Equality laws
• The right not to be sacked because you got married, had a baby, or became ill
• Pay increases
• The minimum wage
• Collective bargaining

Posted by: blackdog Nov 30 2011, 05:18 PM

A great many public sector workers are on low wages too.

Not all private sector workers are on higher wages, not all public servants are on high wages - but people paying the highest rate of tax (the subject of my comment) are far more likely to be in the private sector than the public.

Posted by: blackdog Nov 30 2011, 05:19 PM

Mine was collected today.

Posted by: xjay1337 Nov 30 2011, 05:21 PM

No, but their actions should be considerate. If all the train drivers go on strike 30% of the population will be UNABLE to get to work, harming the economy, even for one day that can be millions of pounds of lost revenue, let alone a likely loss of income for those unable to get in to work. All because they want a 2% payrise of moaning about their pension or something.



So I could just go "I feel like temporarily refusing to do my job". And use that an excuse? Ok, so if I'm unhappy with an aspect of my job I could just "strike"? No, I couldn't. I have responsibilities and my terms of employment were made clear in various documentations, etc. I am unhappy with SOME aspects of my job, and things I will be discussing at reviews, or in a quiet email or chat at lunch, not by standing there with a sign saying "WE WON'T WORK"





I hate children, or would end up kidnapping them and running away.




Striking has an effect at any time. What is selfish is to do it during key areas, towards ends of terms when students have exams after the Christmas break, during the run up to Christmas where households produce extra waste, etc...




Irrelevant; the point is that it's selfish of these people to strike.

Posted by: Biker1 Nov 30 2011, 05:23 PM

Thanks.

Posted by: Nothing Much Nov 30 2011, 05:52 PM

Reply to Tall dark and Handsome.

I never inhaled.
The story of Uncle Eric is in Times online.
Vote rigging. 1960s
ce

Posted by: Andy1 Nov 30 2011, 06:46 PM

[quote name='user23' date='Nov 30 2011, 05:17 PM' post='51296']
You think all teachers on strike today should resign?

This would mean that most schools would be closed for quite a length of time, and some permanently given it would be impossible to find tens of thousands of new teachers to fill their jobs.

By the way, "ganging up" in the past gained most of us

==========================================================


Lets pat them all on the back then because we're all going to get a pay rise and a better pension out of this. Thank you.

Posted by: JeffG Nov 30 2011, 07:39 PM

Well, on the one occasion I signed on when advised to do so after being made redundant, the Job Centre people hadn't heard of this. I had to say I was available Monday-Saturday or no benefit. (Actually, I never did get any money back from the government from all my years paying taxes, because I found employment again a few days before the waiting period expired!)

Posted by: NWNREADER Nov 30 2011, 08:20 PM

Frank Chapple era? Eric Hammond?

Posted by: Berkshirelad Nov 30 2011, 08:55 PM

I am afraid that this is a load of mis-guided, mis-infromed rubbish.

And no, I am not a teacher but I do work in a school.

Posted by: HeatherW Nov 30 2011, 08:55 PM

There are a lot of us in the private sector that do not get as much as those that work for the government. We all have to cut back so this strike is disgusting. They should be thanking their lucky stars they have still got jobs.

Maybe if those strikers stood up in the first place and questioned the Labour governments continuous giving of bloody money to those that were their strongest supporters then maybe we wouldn't be in this mess in the first place.

Posted by: Richard Garvie Dec 1 2011, 08:25 AM

In 2007, Labour actually reformed public pension quite significantly. That scheme is still financially viable. The current government is driven by deficit reduction and is trying to make money everywhere it can, rightly or wrongly depending on what each person believes. In my opinion, the Government have not proved the case for what they are doing with pensions and they are refusing to negotiate. Everybody should be at the table trying to fix this mess, but nothing will be agreed until the coalition commit to proper talks and are prepared to adjust their position.

Posted by: On the edge Dec 1 2011, 08:55 AM

Quite agree - but we need to have the detail without the inflamatory wrap. Like the suggestion that the public penisons are paid out of the rates. Yes they are but arguably, that's simply because the Government have borrowed the pension pot to spend on other things. Actually, to some extent in exactly the same way that Robert Maxwell raided the MGN pension fund.

The other problem is that in the past, the pension schemes (on both sides of the divide) were raided in the 80s and 90s to pay off 'redundant' workers. That did get rather silly on the public side of the fence, where it became institutionalised. There are even local examples of senior teachers leaving on good pensions at just touching 50, and executives exiting with the same, only to come back in similar senior jobs with an 'agency'.

Public sector is suffering from that legacy which was really down to weak management and direction. A lesson for the future perhaps

Posted by: Bloggo Dec 1 2011, 09:16 AM

You seem to be out of touch with what is happening.
Talks between the Goverment and Unions begin again today. But you knew that didn't you?

Posted by: xjay1337 Dec 1 2011, 09:21 AM

Well I know a friend who is a teacher (History) and he is on £28k a year, he's 25. Gets equivalent to 7 and a half weeks holiday and he is at home by 5:30 without fail every night (apparently) unless it's exams. He loves it.

I'm also good mates with someone who works as a tech support guy in a school and he is always on holiday, every half term he has off and again he earns more than I do.

So no, it's not misguided or misinformed.

Posted by: Andy Capp Dec 1 2011, 09:59 AM

I'm not pro strike, but I noticed what appears to be a cleaver use of words from the Tories here. They use the word 'discussions', rather than 'negotiations'. If so, then yes, talks do continue, but whether they are 'negotiations', is another matter.

Posted by: Bloggo Dec 1 2011, 10:04 AM

Mr Garvie refers to "talks". So did I.
Who knows what the reality and intentions of both sides is at this time.

Posted by: Andy Capp Dec 1 2011, 10:11 AM

I think 'talks' and 'discussions' are synonyms, but subtly different than 'negotiations'. It seemed as though they were purposely choosing their words. Saying that, I think the strike at the moment was 'mistimed', notwithstanding I think we need to get the public sector bill down. Greece anyone?

Posted by: Bloggo Dec 1 2011, 10:23 AM

The choice of "weasel" words is prolific in political circles and the truth is often avoided if it does not support the argument being made.
I to think the strike was mistimed however I also think it ill conceived. Puplic sector workers are not the only group suffering neither are they a special case. They need to step back and realise that the world is in an economic mess and they like the rest of us will need to make sacrifices.
Saying that I also think it unacceptable that the banks are paying out huge bonuses and that senior management staff in both the private and public sector are benefiting from extravagant wages and salary increases.

Posted by: Andy Capp Dec 1 2011, 10:39 AM

I agree, but I cannot think of a solution to that which is workable, and wouldn't simply 'slit out throat to spite our face'. Shareholders need to take responsibilities, they are the ones that are not doing their 'job'.

Posted by: Richard Garvie Dec 1 2011, 10:40 AM

What I actually said. Ends with "Everybody should be at the table trying to fix this mess, but nothing will be agreed until the coalition commit to proper talks and are prepared to adjust their position."

They can have all the discussions they like, but unless they are prepared to adjust their position, this will run and run. I'm not a fan of strikes, but when teachers have even gone on strike, you know something is up.

Posted by: Bloggo Dec 1 2011, 10:44 AM

You know there are a great many people who feel that it is the public sector workers and the unions who should be adjusting thier position. Particularly in the present economic climate.

Posted by: OldNewburian Dec 1 2011, 01:44 PM

Interestingly the pole on the Newbury Today home page doesn't appear to reflect the views expressed here!

Posted by: Bloggo Dec 1 2011, 01:53 PM

Well, it did do and amazingly swung the other way. I think it can be manipulated by an individual willing to spend the time on it.

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Dec 1 2011, 02:07 PM

I wondered what they were doing on their day off. Not on a picket line thats for sure.

Posted by: blackdog Dec 1 2011, 05:11 PM

Their protest, from what I can tell, is about having to work longer, pay more and get less when they retire. Loss, loss, loss - not about a pay rise (they haven't had one for two years now).


Too right you couldn't - no individual can decide to take a day off and call it a strike. Strikes are by groups of employees, they must be organised, a ballot has to be taken to ensure that the strike is supported - under strict guidelines.


I sympathise with your opinion, I would hate to be a school teacher too - which makes those that are prepared to do the dreadful job the more valuable.


Of course it's selfish, it's their future they are worried about not one day in your life.

The government is imposing these pension cuts - are they cutting the much more generous MP pension scheme in the same way?

Posted by: factsonly Dec 1 2011, 05:27 PM

Of course all these winging public sector workers could do what those employed in the private sector have to do if they don't like their terms of employment - leave and get a job somewhere you will be happy. Simple really, and done by thousands of people every week.

Actually just occurred to me that changing jobs requires effort, and their benefits in the private sector almost certainly wouldn't match those they current get (or even those that are proposed).

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Dec 1 2011, 05:37 PM

All this reminds me of the Strawbs...

Now I'm a union man
Amazed at what I am
I say what I think, that the company stinks
Yes I'm a union man

When we meet in the local hall
I'll be voting with them all
With a **** of a shout, it's "Out brothers, out!"
And the rise of the factory's fall

Oh, you don't get me, I'm part of the union
You don't get me, I'm part of the union
You don't get me, I'm part of the union
Until the day I die
Until the day I die

The union has made me wise
To the lies of the company spies
And I don't get fooled by the factory rules
'cause I always read between the lines

And I always get my way
If I strike for higher pay
When I show my card to the Scotland Yard
And this is what I say:

Oh, oh, you don't get me, I'm part of the union
You don't get me, I'm part of the union
You don't get me, I'm part of the union
Until the day I die
Until the day I die

Before the union did appear
My life was half as clear
Now I've got the power to the working hour
And every other day of the year

So though I'm a working man
I can ruin the government's plan
And though I'm not hard, the sight of my card
Makes me some kind of superman

Oh, oh, oh, you don't get me, I'm part of the union
You don't get me, I'm part of the union
You don't get me, I'm part of the union
Until the day I die
Until the day I die

You don't get me, I'm part of the union
You don't get me, I'm part of the union
You don't get me, I'm part of the union
Until the day I die
Until the day I die

Posted by: user23 Dec 1 2011, 05:50 PM

Suggesting all teachers, nurses and the like on strike yesterday should leave their jobs seems counter productive. The NHS and our education system would no doubt grind to a halt.

Not really sure what these benefits in the private sector you refer to are. It's certainly not perks like share schemes, staff discount, company dos or Christmas bonuses one might receive in the private sector.

Posted by: xjay1337 Dec 1 2011, 06:01 PM

I've had a busy day at work so can't be bothered to debate in detail so will just be brief.

no. their contributions are being raised so rather than paying like 1% and having the government pay 5% they have to pay 5% as well...or something like that, i'm too busy not being bothered to care.



quick email round "hey guys shall we strike tomorrow?" get a majority of a reply yes. job done? no. get with the real world you have responsibilities and it's your JOB to perform them.




difference is i don't say i don't like kids and then choose to be a teacher. it's a choice, working in a school isn't like a concentration camp, you don't have to be there. you could have done something else. so basically those who DO want to do it are aware of the terms and need to shut up.



probably not and i don't think it's fair one group is treated differently to another but my point about striking being selfish and ignorant stands and is valid.

Posted by: factsonly Dec 1 2011, 06:17 PM

Not suggesting all public sector workers change jobs, just those that think they would be better off elsewhere - obviously

In the private sector staff discount (where available), share schemes and christmas bonuses are worked into the payscale from the off, so not really perks as such and paid for by the company not the tax payer. And many of these are being scrapped or cut back, many discount schemes are capped at x per month and now limited to just the employee where before it would have included family.

Can you imagine the ridicule you would be subject to if private sector workers went on strike because they were loosing:-
Staff discount, Christmas do and their share options!!

Now where's the company final salary pension and 10 weeks holiday

Posted by: Dodgys smarter brother. Dec 1 2011, 06:20 PM

Oh dear.

Dave Cousins originally 'wrote' it as an updating of 'Union Maid' by Woody Guthrie et al

There once was a union maid, she never was afraid
Of goons and ginks and company finks and the deputy sheriffs who made the raid.
She went to the union hall when a meeting it was called,
And when the Legion boys come 'round
She always stood her ground.

CHORUS:
Oh, you can't scare me, I'm sticking to the union,
I'm sticking to the union, I'm sticking to the union.
Oh, you can't scare me, I'm sticking to the union,
I'm sticking to the union 'til the day I die.

This union maid was wise to the tricks of company spies,
She couldn't be fooled by a company stool, she'd always organize the guys.
She always got her way when she struck for better pay.
She'd show her card to the National Guard
And this is what she'd say:

CHORUS

You gals who want to be free, just take a tip from me;
Get you a man who's a union man and join the ladies' auxiliary.
Married life ain't hard when you got a union card,
A union man has a happy life when he's got a union wife.

To this day, the remaining members of the Strawbs still insist it wasn't parodic or sarcastic, it was just (re)written very badly by them . And thus capable of being misunderstood. (which it was) (clearly). They should have stuck with the Guthrie version.

Posted by: factsonly Dec 1 2011, 06:24 PM

What the fecking **** is happening, it's turning into the X factor round here.

Posted by: Dodgys smarter brother. Dec 1 2011, 06:30 PM

Judging by the age and lack of anything to do during the day on here I'd say it was more of a 'Pop' 'Idle' thing.

Geddit?

Posted by: xjay1337 Dec 1 2011, 06:36 PM

Ignore the miserable old man, he wishes death upon people for no reason other than the fact of being a miserable old man.

I quite liked your song.

Posted by: user23 Dec 1 2011, 07:21 PM

Looks like Private Sector staff might be going on strike over final salary pension schemes too.

http://www.eveningnews24.co.uk/news/business/unilever_workers_in_norwich_back_strike_action_over_pension_changes_1_1139496

Posted by: NWNREADER Dec 1 2011, 08:46 PM

They also refuse to perform it!!! DC has nothing good to say of it as he is not a 'pop' musician! The band was in the grip of the producers who say pound signs, not quality

Posted by: blackdog Dec 2 2011, 04:13 PM

Yes. The proposals are to change the pension scheme to make them pay more, work longer and get less.
If you don't care why on earth are you so het up about it?


Your ignorance of modern industrial relations law is impressive - do you ever watch the news or read a newspaper?


Teachers are aware of the terms of their employment - part of which is the right to join a union and to take strike action under certain circumstances. They are not stiking because they don't like the job, they are striking because their employer wants to change (for the worse) the terms of their employment.


But you are arguing that one group - public servants - should be treated differently to another - private sectore employees - by having their right to strike removed.

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Dec 2 2011, 04:20 PM

Jeremy Clarkson was right!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: factsonly Dec 3 2011, 11:43 AM

I also have the ability to move on from a disagreement without holding a grudge, that's something that comes with age. So yes, perhaps to you I am an old man, definitely not miserable though

Posted by: Nothing Much Dec 3 2011, 01:12 PM

I think the thread might have run it's course,so I might ramble a tiny bit.
Woody Guthrie was not the first to change a tune or lyrics.Many American "folk songs"
came from the Appalachians They often came from Lincolnshire and East Anglia.
His version of Gypsy Davey is based on a border ballad from 1720 ish, via the Carter family.
Then Arlo took over and changed it again. (He looks older now since" Alice's Restaurant")

I always thought the Strawbs were just having a laugh but it was fun at the time..
ce

Posted by: On the edge Dec 3 2011, 07:53 PM

Think you are probably right. Was around at the time and yes there were apparently loads of strikes; but where I lived and worked, you'd be hard put to find one. Anyway, we were more interested in how much Watneys Red Barrel we could pour down ourthroats....I can't remember it being that bad either!

Posted by: NWNREADER Dec 3 2011, 08:30 PM

But a Double Diamond worked wonders

Posted by: xjay1337 Dec 3 2011, 11:38 PM

blackdog, i care so little about the fact i'm not going to bother replying, there, hows that?

i have moved on. i don't care but i don't often forget how someone wishes death upon me because i used to ride a loud orange motorcycle. we're still friends i hope?