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Newbury Today Forum _ Random Rants _ Next election

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Jun 10 2017, 06:21 AM

Lessons learned...

1. Leader of party has to be charasmatic
2. Manifesto is important. Juat make some uncosted sh1t up
3. People like free stuff
4. Do not take people for granted
5. Get celebrity "endorsements" from multi millionaire tax evaders like Linekar on twitter and facebook
6. Election is now presidential. Even if you have people that are incompetent in your team this does not matter


Posted by: Andy Capp Jun 10 2017, 06:41 AM

The opposition have little to lose.
The more people you make poorer, the more people there are to vote against you.
Hunting with hounds is not widely popular.
People don't admire cowards and liars as leaders.
At least half the electorate are thick.
Tories are easy to despise.
Brexit is only marginally more popular than Remain.
Looking and sounding like Thatcher doesn't make you Thatcher.
TV and social media are not to be ignored or treated with contempt.

Posted by: On the edge Jun 10 2017, 06:46 AM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Jun 10 2017, 07:21 AM) *
Lessons learned...

1. Leader of party has to be charasmatic
2. Manifesto is important. Juat make some uncosted sh1t up
3. People like free stuff
4. Do not take people for granted
5. Get celebrity "endorsements" from multi millionaire tax evaders like Linekar on twitter and facebook
6. Election is now presidential. Even if you have people that are incompetent in your team this does not matter


Do keep up, that's just how Mrs May got into this mess - seriously.

The biggest lesson all three major parties are learning is that your biggest threats and biggest enemies are close and around you.

Posted by: Andy Capp Jun 10 2017, 06:51 AM

Corbyn is a conviction politician: play the argument, not the man.

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Jun 10 2017, 07:12 AM

QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Jun 10 2017, 07:51 AM) *
Corbyn is a conviction politician: play the argument, not the man.


Running through fields of wheat? Give me a break

She also failed to offer anything other than austerity and misery.

Posted by: newres Jun 10 2017, 07:24 AM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Jun 10 2017, 08:12 AM) *
Running through fields of wheat? Give me a break

She also failed to offer anything other than austerity and misery.

Let's just hope that the result is we remain in the single market one way or another. The election was a good thing for the country. The people have spoken.

Posted by: Turin Machine Jun 10 2017, 08:37 AM

Snappy slogan, that's the key. Something like; "Corduroy rules", linen drools? Or, "IRA, knowingly misrepresented?" Or they could offer free classes in knitting with cabbage stalks, my favourite would be to join sinn fein, if they win they simply never need to turn up for work!. Offer them new Utopia, say everything is going to be 'new' and 'exciting' oh, and try to slip the words 'social justice' in somewhere. That'll work. My favourite of course is "lie to the many, not the few". Job done.

Posted by: je suis Charlie Jun 10 2017, 09:16 AM

QUOTE (Turin Machine @ Jun 10 2017, 09:37 AM) *
Snappy slogan, that's the key. Something like; "Corduroy rules", linen drools? Or, "IRA, knowingly misrepresented?" Or they could offer free classes in knitting with cabbage stalks, my favourite would be to join sinn fein, if they win they simply never need to turn up for work!. Offer them new Utopia, say everything is going to be 'new' and 'exciting' oh, and try to slip the words 'social justice' in somewhere. That'll work. My favourite of course is "lie to the many, not the few". Job done.

Social media, the young will believe any lie if you spread it on Facebook, there's the trick.

Posted by: newres Jun 10 2017, 09:56 AM

QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ Jun 10 2017, 10:16 AM) *
Social media, the young will believe any lie if you spread it on Facebook, there's the trick.

It worked for spreading hatred against refugees. Why not?

Posted by: On the edge Jun 10 2017, 10:03 AM

QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ Jun 10 2017, 10:16 AM) *
Social media, the young will believe any lie if you spread it on Facebook, there's the trick.


Spot on; like the lie they used to believe about success in life was via a University degree followed by a career with a good firm who paid you enough to buy a reasonably decent home and a fair pension when you retire

Yeah, fell for that one didn't they!

Posted by: On the edge Jun 10 2017, 10:09 AM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Jun 10 2017, 08:12 AM) *
Running through fields of wheat? Give me a break

She also failed to offer anything other than austerity and misery.


Whoa TDH, hold on a second, isn't that exactly what you were claiming Jeremy Corbyn was offering you in the run up; so what is it you do want?

Posted by: je suis Charlie Jun 10 2017, 10:14 AM

QUOTE (On the edge @ Jun 10 2017, 11:03 AM) *
Spot on; like the lie they used to believe about success in life was via a University degree followed by a career with a good firm who paid you enough to buy a reasonably decent home and a fair pension when you retire

Yeah, fell for that one didn't they!

Good firm? Enterprise is to be taxed out of existence. If you've got a company you're rich! That's not allowed. No ambition will be allowed. Everyone will be at the same level and labour intend to set a very low bar. Why go to uni? Get a good job and pay more tax, there's motivation for you!

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Jun 10 2017, 10:15 AM

QUOTE (On the edge @ Jun 10 2017, 11:09 AM) *
Whoa TDH, hold on a second, isn't that exactly what you were claiming Jeremy Corbyn was offering you in the run up; so what is it you do want?


Its pretty easy to put a manifesto together when you know you cant win. His next one will be interesting.

Posted by: je suis Charlie Jun 10 2017, 10:16 AM

QUOTE (newres @ Jun 10 2017, 10:56 AM) *
It worked for spreading hatred against refugees. Why not?

You mean the unskilled migrants from Syria with a hatred for the decadent non believers?

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Jun 10 2017, 10:18 AM

QUOTE (newres @ Jun 10 2017, 10:56 AM) *
It worked for spreading hatred against refugees. Why not?

Yawn. Take a couple in then and show them some love. You could make a difference. And you'd be in a better place to preach aboout it.

Posted by: newres Jun 10 2017, 10:24 AM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Jun 10 2017, 11:18 AM) *
Yawn. Take a couple in then and show them some love. You could make a difference. And you'd be in a better place to preach aboout it.

Will you ever be happy? The Tories "won" the election, you won the Brexit vote, you've got a racist in the White House yet you're still moaning. I pity your poor wife.

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Jun 10 2017, 10:42 AM

QUOTE (newres @ Jun 10 2017, 11:24 AM) *
Will you ever be happy? The Tories "won" the election, you won the Brexit vote, you've got a racist in the White House yet you're still moaning. I pity your poor wife.

All talk and no trousers. You make me sick. Oh the poor refugees... Yeah I also feel sorry for them but I dont bang on about it cos I dont want them living with me. You want them to be looked after by someone else. Hyp O Cryte.

Think I'll start calling you Lilly. laugh.gif

Posted by: Simon Kirby Jun 10 2017, 10:52 AM

QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Jun 10 2017, 07:51 AM) *
Corbyn is a conviction politician: play the argument, not the man.

Quite.

Posted by: On the edge Jun 10 2017, 10:54 AM

QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ Jun 10 2017, 11:14 AM) *
Good firm? Enterprise is to be taxed out of existence. If you've got a company you're rich! That's not allowed. No ambition will be allowed. Everyone will be at the same level and labour intend to set a very low bar. Why go to uni? Get a good job and pay more tax, there's motivation for you!


Yes, but you Tory boys have done that. Stuffed the Country by selling absolutely everything. Few 'brain' jobs in the UK anymore. Even your mate Osbo was running scared in the end, all those comments about 'we've got the jobs now we need to get wages up'. No wonder Cameron said we are the socialists now - all the workers low pay and no prospects.

So, Labour's life long learning makes much sense, as they recover our business, we'll need properly trained workers.

Ambition should be rather more than milking assets you are supposedly stewarding, floating off round the Med and leaving HMG to pick up the pieces.

Sure, that might appeal to a small percentage of the electorate; but then you tend to loose elections!

Posted by: On the edge Jun 10 2017, 10:59 AM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Jun 10 2017, 11:15 AM) *
Its pretty easy to put a manifesto together when you know you cant win. His next one will be interesting.


Err, it seems to be pretty easy to do one when you think you CAN win too! Again, the next Tory one will be facinating too. Will be,interesting to see what hunting and demrnture tax is called....

Posted by: spartacus Jun 10 2017, 11:31 AM

QUOTE (On the edge @ Jun 10 2017, 11:54 AM) *
Yes, but you Tory boys have done that. Stuffed the Country by selling absolutely everything.

I think Gordon got ahead of that particular game a wee while back by selling the gold reserves at knock down prices.

QUOTE (On the edge @ Jun 10 2017, 11:03 AM) *
Spot on; like the lie they used to believe about success in life was via a University degree followed by a career with a good firm who paid you enough to buy a reasonably decent home and a fair pension when you retire

Yeah, fell for that one didn't they!
Once upon a time University degrees were something to aspire to for the top academically gifted percentage. Now it's just seen by a huge percentage of less academically gifted as being a natural progression from school A Levels, where E is counted as a pass and can get you a place at a converted Poly during the clearing process.. I mean ANY Uni is better than NO Uni right? You can still get pissed at Southampton Solent Uni right?

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Jun 10 2017, 11:36 AM

QUOTE (spartacus @ Jun 10 2017, 12:31 PM) *
I think Gordon got ahead of that particular game a wee while back by selling the gold reserves at knock down prices.

Once upon a time University degrees were something to aspire to for the top academically gifted percentage. Now it's just seen by a huge percentage of less academically gifted as being a natural progression from school A Levels, where E is counted as a pass and can get you a place at a converted Poly during the clearing process.. I mean ANY Uni is better than NO Uni right? You can still get pissed at Southampton Solent Uni right?


Don't forget the gap year. Its my uman right.

Posted by: On the edge Jun 10 2017, 12:06 PM

QUOTE (spartacus @ Jun 10 2017, 12:31 PM) *
I think Gordon got ahead of that particular game a wee while back by selling the gold reserves at knock down prices.

Once upon a time University degrees were something to aspire to for the top academically gifted percentage. Now it's just seen by a huge percentage of less academically gifted as being a natural progression from school A Levels, where E is counted as a pass and can get you a place at a converted Poly during the clearing process.. I mean ANY Uni is better than NO Uni right? You can still get pissed at Southampton Solent Uni right?


Dear old Gordy was simply following the 'let's all be Tory's' trend made fashionable by a certain Mr Blair. He was copying the masters; Messrs Major and Lamont!

It's been a very clever policy to downgrade educational standards to suit potential employment prospects. Clearly, you are absolutely right, we don't need anywhere near the number of graduates we once did. Choking off universities would be as unpopular with Tory voters as the dementure tax; hence slowly slowly catches monkey approach is better. Why on earth do you think separate Grammar schools feature strongly in their manifesto?

Posted by: Andy Capp Jun 10 2017, 12:08 PM

QUOTE (spartacus @ Jun 10 2017, 12:31 PM) *
I think Gordon got ahead of that particular game a wee while back by selling the gold reserves at knock down prices.

And plundering pensions.

QUOTE (spartacus @ Jun 10 2017, 12:31 PM) *
Once upon a time University degrees were something to aspire to for the top academically gifted percentage

Or parents of the wealthy.

Posted by: spartacus Jun 10 2017, 12:10 PM

I dare say there wouldn't be a huge resistance to removing or subsidising tuition fees if it was kept to the brightest students doing meaningful degrees, but we're way past that now. A fair number of my son's peer group toddled off to their various Unis to do 'Sports Science' degrees with some dream of being physios at top rugby clubs or such like. The reality is that the nearest they can get to a sports related job is handing out towels at Nuffield...

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Jun 10 2017, 12:38 PM

QUOTE (spartacus @ Jun 10 2017, 01:10 PM) *
I dare say there wouldn't be a huge resistance to removing or subsidising tuition fees if it was kept to the brightest students doing meaningful degrees, but we're way past that now. A fair number of my son's peer group toddled off to their various Unis to do 'Sports Science' degrees with some dream of being physios at top rugby clubs or such like. The reality is that the nearest they can get to a sports related job is handing out towels at Nuffield...


Quite. Why not make some university degrees free that benefit the Country whilst others are fee paying? Happy medium in my book.

Posted by: newres Jun 10 2017, 12:46 PM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Jun 10 2017, 11:42 AM) *
All talk and no trousers. You make me sick. Oh the poor refugees... Yeah I also feel sorry for them but I dont bang on about it cos I dont want them living with me. You want them to be looked after by someone else. Hyp O Cryte.

Think I'll start calling you Lilly. laugh.gif

I wouldn't want YOU living with me, but I wouldn't want you deprived of a home if you were bombed out. Doesn't make me a hypocrite. Silly sausage.

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Jun 10 2017, 12:57 PM

QUOTE (newres @ Jun 10 2017, 01:46 PM) *
I wouldn't want YOU living with me, but I wouldn't want you deprived of a home if you were bombed out. Doesn't make me a hypocrite. Silly sausage.


Yep. It does. Actions speak louder than words. You speak these words to make yoirself feel better. Unless you help yourself its just platitudes. Look at me. Am I not wonderful. Sort of chap that does #prayfor hashtags.

Posted by: newres Jun 10 2017, 01:18 PM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Jun 10 2017, 01:57 PM) *
Yep. It does. Actions speak louder than words. You speak these words to make yoirself feel better. Unless you help yourself its just platitudes. Look at me. Am I not wonderful. Sort of chap that does #prayfor hashtags.

I don't do #prayfor but I don't spout hatred either. rolleyes.gif

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Jun 10 2017, 01:51 PM

QUOTE (newres @ Jun 10 2017, 02:18 PM) *
I don't do #prayfor but I don't spout hatred either. rolleyes.gif


Are you saying anyone on this forum does? If so please give me examples. Enlighten me.

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Jun 10 2017, 02:03 PM

Quick question...

When will the first Strike by Unite and co take place?

Emboldened by the GE results I can see the Unions with JC on side causing much misery.



Posted by: spartacus Jun 10 2017, 02:56 PM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Jun 10 2017, 03:03 PM) *
Quick question...

When will the first Strike by Unite and co take place?

Emboldened by the GE results I can see the Unions with JC on side causing much misery.

I can't do the linky thing but I've already seen the #resist thing doing the rounds from the "Labour's Digital Army" website implying watch this space for news on what to do next under the name Project MAYhem. The plans will become clear and will be shared from tomorrow apparently

Posted by: Andy Capp Jun 10 2017, 03:04 PM

With a strong and stable government in place we have nothing to worry about.

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Jun 10 2017, 03:27 PM

QUOTE (spartacus @ Jun 10 2017, 03:56 PM) *
I can't do the linky thing but I've already seen the #resist thing doing the rounds from the "Labour's Digital Army" website implying watch this space for news on what to do next under the name Project MAYhem. The plans will become clear and will be shared from tomorrow apparently


Leftists... Replica of DT in the USA coming up. I predict riots.

Posted by: newres Jun 10 2017, 03:37 PM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Jun 10 2017, 02:51 PM) *
Are you saying anyone on this forum does? If so please give me examples. Enlighten me.

Two minutes looking and here's one from you:

"The rise of Wahabism as a popular cult part of Islam is relatively recent and they want to kill us all. Its not difficult. They want YOU dead. They want your family dead. They would cut your head off without a second thought. Good luck making peace with that."


Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Jun 10 2017, 03:44 PM

QUOTE (newres @ Jun 10 2017, 04:37 PM) *
Two minutes looking and here's one from you:

"The rise of Wahabism as a popular cult part of Islam is relatively recent and they want to kill us all. Its not difficult. They want YOU dead. They want your family dead. They would cut your head off without a second thought. Good luck making peace with that."


Please explain why this is islamophobic and full of hatred???
If thats the best you could find its a poor effort.😂

Posted by: je suis Charlie Jun 10 2017, 03:52 PM

QUOTE (newres @ Jun 10 2017, 04:37 PM) *
Two minutes looking and here's one from you:

"The rise of Wahabism as a popular cult part of Islam is relatively recent and they want to kill us all. Its not difficult. They want YOU dead. They want your family dead. They would cut your head off without a second thought. Good luck making peace with that."

And this is factually wrong where?

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Jun 10 2017, 04:13 PM

QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ Jun 10 2017, 04:52 PM) *
And this is factually wrong where?


In newres world the terrorists are "misunderstood". They need a cuddle from JC and all would be well. You couldn't make it up.

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Jun 10 2017, 04:19 PM

DP

Posted by: newres Jun 10 2017, 04:37 PM

QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ Jun 10 2017, 04:52 PM) *
And this is factually wrong where?

Where in Wahhabism does it say that it wants me dead? Show me the original source where it is stated that me and my family should be killed. Here in Newbury in 2017.

Posted by: je suis Charlie Jun 10 2017, 04:43 PM

QUOTE (newres @ Jun 10 2017, 05:37 PM) *
Where in Wahhabism does it say that it wants me dead? Show me the original source where it is stated that me and my family should be killed. Here in Newbury in 2017.

Or on London bridge or a Manchester venue, not ALL about you is it?

Posted by: je suis Charlie Jun 10 2017, 04:46 PM

"Wahhabism has been accused of being "a source of global terrorism", inspiring the ideology of the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (ISIL), and for causing disunity in Muslim communities by labelling Muslims who disagreed with the Wahhabi definition of monotheism as apostates (takfir) and justifying their killing."

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Jun 10 2017, 04:50 PM

QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ Jun 10 2017, 05:46 PM) *
"Wahhabism has been accused of being "a source of global terrorism", inspiring the ideology of the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (ISIL), and for causing disunity in Muslim communities by labelling Muslims who disagreed with the Wahhabi definition of monotheism as apostates (takfir) and justifying their killing."


The only terrorists in newres world are white. To me they are all terrorists whatever colour or religion. I have no compassion for any..Scum. The lot.

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Jun 10 2017, 04:53 PM

QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ Jun 10 2017, 05:43 PM) *
Or on London bridge or a Manchester venue, not ALL about you is it?


It ia though. You miss his point. As long as he is not affected by an "incident" its not his problem. Selfish. Me. Me. Me.

Posted by: Turin Machine Jun 10 2017, 04:56 PM

"Taymiyyah had declared war on Shi’ism, Sufism and Greek philosophy. He spoke out, too against visiting the grave of the prophet and the celebration of his birthday, declaring that all such behavior represented mere imitation of the Christian worship of Jesus as God (i.e. idolatry). Abd al-Wahhab assimilated all this earlier teaching, stating that “any doubt or hesitation” on the part of a believer in respect to his or her acknowledging this particular interpretation of Islam should “deprive a man of immunity of his property and his life.”

One of the main tenets of Abd al-Wahhab’s doctrine has become the key idea of takfir. Under the takfiri doctrine, Abd al-Wahhab and his followers could deem fellow Muslims infidels should they engage in activities that in any way could be said to encroach on the sovereignty of the absolute Authority (that is, the King). Abd al-Wahhab denounced all Muslims who honored the dead, saints, or angels. He held that such sentiments detracted from the complete subservience one must feel towards God, and only God. Wahhabi Islam thus bans any prayer to saints and dead loved ones, pilgrimages to tombs and special mosques, religious festivals celebrating saints, the honoring of the Muslim Prophet Muhammad’s birthday, and even prohibits the use of gravestones when burying the dead.

Those who would not conform to this view should be killed, their wives and daughters violated, and their possessions confiscated, he wrote."

Posted by: Turin Machine Jun 10 2017, 05:00 PM

It may be distasteful to discuss but the facts on this 'sect' are clear. Stopping our involvement in the middle East is unlikely at best to turn the clock back a couple of centuries.

Posted by: je suis Charlie Jun 10 2017, 05:11 PM

QUOTE (Turin Machine @ Jun 10 2017, 05:56 PM) *
"Taymiyyah had declared war on Shi’ism, Sufism and Greek philosophy. He spoke out, too against visiting the grave of the prophet and the celebration of his birthday, declaring that all such behavior represented mere imitation of the Christian worship of Jesus as God (i.e. idolatry). Abd al-Wahhab assimilated all this earlier teaching, stating that “any doubt or hesitation” on the part of a believer in respect to his or her acknowledging this particular interpretation of Islam should “deprive a man of immunity of his property and his life.”

One of the main tenets of Abd al-Wahhab’s doctrine has become the key idea of takfir. Under the takfiri doctrine, Abd al-Wahhab and his followers could deem fellow Muslims infidels should they engage in activities that in any way could be said to encroach on the sovereignty of the absolute Authority (that is, the King). Abd al-Wahhab denounced all Muslims who honored the dead, saints, or angels. He held that such sentiments detracted from the complete subservience one must feel towards God, and only God. Wahhabi Islam thus bans any prayer to saints and dead loved ones, pilgrimages to tombs and special mosques, religious festivals celebrating saints, the honoring of the Muslim Prophet Muhammad’s birthday, and even prohibits the use of gravestones when burying the dead.

Those who would not conform to this view should be killed, their wives and daughters violated, and their possessions confiscated, he wrote."

Wow! Chilling.

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Jun 10 2017, 05:17 PM

QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ Jun 10 2017, 06:11 PM) *
Wow! Chilling.


And true. But hey pointing it out on this forum is an act of "hatred" according to newres. #truthhurts

Posted by: je suis Charlie Jun 10 2017, 05:29 PM

Here's one for the manifesto,
Anyone caught flytipping has their vehicle​ crushed in front of them. Oh and,
Burger joints pay tax at 400%
Mistreatment of animals gets you 10 years.
Causing death by dangerous driving 15 years minimum.

Just for starters. 😤

Posted by: je suis Charlie Jun 10 2017, 06:01 PM

QUOTE (newres @ Jun 10 2017, 10:56 AM) *
It worked for spreading hatred against refugees. Why not?

I was thinking more like

"Author John Niven celebrated after it emerged there was a hung Parliament with Labour winning back 32 seats and claiming 262 seats in total.
He tweeted: “May ‘our friends and allies in the DUP’.
“Straight face. The lot. The f****** balls on this whore.”

Ahh the left, so righteous.

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Jun 10 2017, 06:22 PM

QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ Jun 10 2017, 07:01 PM) *
I was thinking more like

"Author John Niven celebrated after it emerged there was a hung Parliament with Labour winning back 32 seats and claiming 262 seats in total.
He tweeted: “May ‘our friends and allies in the DUP’.
“Straight face. The lot. The f****** balls on this whore.”

Ahh the left, so righteous.


"Power is never given. It has to be taken"

Lilly Allen 10th June 2017

Nothing like inciting your 5 million mostly young followers on twitter ro riot...

Posted by: newres Jun 10 2017, 07:01 PM

QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ Jun 10 2017, 06:11 PM) *
Wow! Chilling.

However it's all second hand and still nowhere does it say they want to kill me or my family. TDH is a liar.

Posted by: je suis Charlie Jun 10 2017, 07:06 PM

QUOTE (newres @ Jun 10 2017, 08:01 PM) *
However it's all second hand and still nowhere does it say they want to kill me or my family. TDH is a liar.

What do you mean? Second hand? They want to kill ALL non believers, that's you, your family, me, my family everyone who doesn't subscribe. If you mean, "its not likely to happen to me in Newbury" then yes you're right. But I thought that freedom from terrorism should be "for the many, not just the few"

Posted by: Turin Machine Jun 10 2017, 07:15 PM

QUOTE (newres @ Jun 10 2017, 08:01 PM) *
However it's all second hand and still nowhere does it say they want to kill me or my family. TDH is a liar.

From my old pal wiki,
"According to German journalist Jürgen Todenhöfer, who spent ten days embedded with ISIL in Mosul, the view he kept hearing was that ISIL wants to "conquer the world", and that all who do not believe in the group's interpretation of the Quran will be killed. Todenhöfer was struck by the ISIL fighters' belief that "all religions who agree with democracy have to die", and by their "incredible enthusiasm" – including enthusiasm for killing "hundreds of millions" of people."

That's you and me if they get a chance.

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Jun 10 2017, 07:17 PM

QUOTE (newres @ Jun 10 2017, 08:01 PM) *
However it's all second hand and still nowhere does it say they want to kill me or my family. TDH is a liar.


Can you define why please? Just interested to find out what you think is factually incorrect. RegardsTDH

Note. The lack of Kind Regards.. Just Regards 😂

Posted by: newres Jun 10 2017, 07:22 PM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Jun 10 2017, 08:17 PM) *
Can you define why please? Just interested to find out what you think is factually incorrect. RegardsTDH

Note. The lack of Kind Regards.. Just Regards 😂

I asked for an original source in which it is written by a Wahhabist that they wish to kill all non Muslims. I'm not saying it is a nice sect but you made a dramatic claim that would be likely to cause fear and breed hatred and I'm asking you to back it up with an original modern text produced by this sect that advocates this view.

Posted by: Turin Machine Jun 10 2017, 07:48 PM

QUOTE (newres @ Jun 10 2017, 08:22 PM) *
I asked for an original source in which it is written by a Wahhabist that they wish to kill all non Muslims. I'm not saying it is a nice sect but you made a dramatic claim that would be likely to cause fear and breed hatred and I'm asking you to back it up with an original modern text produced by this sect that advocates this view.

You could try here.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/alastair-crooke/isis-wahhabism-saudi-arabia_b_5717157.html

Written by Alistair Crook, well known author and ex MI6 agent in the middle east
or here

http://www.islamicsupremecouncil.org/understanding-islam/anti-extremism/7-islamic-radicalism-its-wahhabi-roots-and-current-representation.html

some background reading

http://www.au.af.mil/au/awc/awcgate/loc/sa/wahhabi.htm

All interesting stuff which goes some way to explaining the mind set.

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Jun 10 2017, 07:49 PM

QUOTE (newres @ Jun 10 2017, 08:22 PM) *
I asked for an original source in which it is written by a Wahhabist that they wish to kill all non Muslims. I'm not saying it is a nice sect but you made a dramatic claim that would be likely to cause fear and breed hatred and I'm asking you to back it up with an original modern text produced by this sect that advocates this view.


Yeah. The 6 people on this forum are all cowering in fear at my inflammatory comments. Meanwhile no condemnation from you of someone with 5 million followers advising them to "take power".
Plenty of other people have already qouted on wahhabissm. You are arguing a lost cause my dear friend. Regards TDH

Posted by: je suis Charlie Jun 10 2017, 07:58 PM

Also the young supporters who advised that they take note of those houses with conservative banners outside so that they "could come back and torch them".

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Jun 10 2017, 08:06 PM

QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ Jun 10 2017, 08:58 PM) *
Also the young supporters who advised that they take note of those houses with conservative banners outside so that they "could come back and torch them".


Yeah but they are liberal lefties so its ok to do that. I'm thinking about becoming one. You get to do any sh1t you want and say anthing you want (as long as it is left wing) and have no worries about any recourse. Marvellous.

Posted by: newres Jun 10 2017, 08:10 PM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Jun 10 2017, 08:49 PM) *
Yeah. The 6 people on this forum are all cowering in fear at my inflammatory comments. Meanwhile no condemnation from you of someone with 5 million followers advising them to "take power".
Plenty of other people have already qouted on wahhabissm. You are arguing a lost cause my dear friend. Regards TDH

You're certainly all cowering in fear. Bunch of old women.

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Jun 10 2017, 08:12 PM

Bunch of old women? Is that the best comeback you have got?

Posted by: Turin Machine Jun 10 2017, 08:26 PM

QUOTE (newres @ Jun 10 2017, 09:10 PM) *
You're certainly all cowering in fear. Bunch of old women.

Not me, mind I'd rather be aware than hide my head in the sand. Sweet dreams.

Posted by: newres Jun 10 2017, 08:26 PM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Jun 10 2017, 09:12 PM) *
Bunch of old women? Is that the best comeback you have got?

Comeback to what? There was nothing to come back to. biggrin.gif

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Jun 10 2017, 08:29 PM

QUOTE (newres @ Jun 10 2017, 09:26 PM) *
Comeback to what? There was nothing to come back to. biggrin.gif


Did you vote Labour by the way???

Posted by: je suis Charlie Jun 10 2017, 08:36 PM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Jun 10 2017, 09:29 PM) *
Did you vote Labour by the way???

I wonder? 🙈🙉🙊

Posted by: newres Jun 10 2017, 09:38 PM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Jun 10 2017, 09:29 PM) *
Did you vote Labour by the way???

No I didn't.

Posted by: On the edge Jun 10 2017, 09:40 PM

Let's be honest no period of history goes by without some aggressive religious or secular group uttering threats of death and retribution for those who it sets itself against. Nothing new there and anyone saying it is vile, still worse those who's limited intellect and lack of morals compels them to act upon it.

Yes, we should be taking all steps we can to suppress and stop such danger, and broadly we do. We must also be aware that the advent of social media has made it easier for the lunatic fringe to,deliver more of this but ironically, it's also made it easier and quicker to detect.

I along with most people are not afraid or worried about this threat, but that doesn't mean Being soft on perpetrators. Ironically, Id say those who pressing this 'information' in front of us are actually helping them win; by trying to whip up fear and terror.

Posted by: newres Jun 11 2017, 06:58 AM

QUOTE (On the edge @ Jun 10 2017, 10:40 PM) *
Let's be honest no period of history goes by without some aggressive religious or secular group uttering threats of death and retribution for those who it sets itself against. Nothing new there and anyone saying it is vile, still worse those who's limited intellect and lack of morals compels them to act upon it.

Yes, we should be taking all steps we can to suppress and stop such danger, and broadly we do. We must also be aware that the advent of social media has made it easier for the lunatic fringe to,deliver more of this but ironically, it's also made it easier and quicker to detect.

I along with most people are not afraid or worried about this threat, but that doesn't mean Being soft on perpetrators. Ironically, Id say those who pressing this 'information' in front of us are actually helping them win; by trying to whip up fear and terror.

Totally agree. But we never had this problem before we took it upon ourselves to overtyhrow sovereign governments and then leave chaos in its wake. The fault of the US and its partners. We continue to kill innocents there without a shed tear.

Posted by: je suis Charlie Jun 11 2017, 09:02 AM

QUOTE (newres @ Jun 11 2017, 07:58 AM) *
Totally agree. But we never had this problem before we took it upon ourselves to overtyhrow sovereign governments and then leave chaos in its wake. The fault of the US and its partners. We continue to kill innocents there without a shed tear.

And you have the gall to criticize others on grammar and punctuation! 😂😂😂

Posted by: Turin Machine Jun 11 2017, 09:18 AM

QUOTE (newres @ Jun 11 2017, 07:58 AM) *
Totally agree. But we never had this problem before we took it upon ourselves to overtyhrow sovereign governments and then leave chaos in its wake. The fault of the US and its partners. We continue to kill innocents there without a shed tear.

It's like trying to debate with the 'Flat Earth Society'! Newres, watch my eyes, look in my eyes, three, two, one 👏 and you're back in the room!

Posted by: Andy Capp Jun 11 2017, 09:46 AM

I wanna take sides, but I'm struggling to understand what the argument is?

Posted by: Cognosco Jun 11 2017, 10:33 AM

QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Jun 11 2017, 10:46 AM) *
I wanna take sides, but I'm struggling to understand what the argument is?


As has been the case for hundreds of years religious ideologies are being discussed. Computer says "no solutions are available!"

Posted by: je suis Charlie Jun 11 2017, 10:52 AM

QUOTE (Cognosco @ Jun 11 2017, 11:33 AM) *
As has been the case for hundreds of years religious ideologies are being discussed. Computer says "no solutions are available!"

And a quick change of foreign policy is unlikely to overcome centuries of religious ideology.

Posted by: newres Jun 11 2017, 12:44 PM

QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ Jun 11 2017, 11:52 AM) *
And a quick change of foreign policy is unlikely to overcome centuries of religious ideology.

So have we been subject to Islamic attacks for hundreds of years.

Posted by: je suis Charlie Jun 11 2017, 01:42 PM

QUOTE (newres @ Jun 11 2017, 01:44 PM) *
So have we been subject to Islamic attacks for hundreds of years.

It's been rampant in the middle, far and near East for centuries, also in southern Europe, now, like a plague, it's spreading. Why? Because we are a soft target, easy to get too, we welcome them in, we allow their preachers of hate to proliferate and we tend not to fight back. They see us a the soft underbelly of the decadent West.

Posted by: On the edge Jun 11 2017, 01:44 PM

QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ Jun 11 2017, 02:42 PM) *
It's been rampant in the middle, far and near East for centuries, also in southern Europe, now, like a plague, it's spreading. Why? Because we are a soft target, easy to get too, we welcome them in, we allow their preachers of hate to proliferate and we tend not to fight back. They see us a the soft underbelly of the decadent West.


So, then, what stopped them before?

Posted by: je suis Charlie Jun 11 2017, 01:45 PM

QUOTE (On the edge @ Jun 11 2017, 02:44 PM) *
So, then, what stopped them before?

No easyjet.
https://www-coventrytelegraph-net.cdn.ampproject.org/c/www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/uk-world-news/easyjet-slovenia-germany-terrorist-terror-13169600.amp

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Jun 11 2017, 01:49 PM

QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ Jun 11 2017, 02:45 PM) *
No easyjet.
https://www-coventrytelegraph-net.cdn.ampproject.org/c/www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/uk-world-news/easyjet-slovenia-germany-terrorist-terror-13169600.amp


Attack. #prayfor. Vigil. ❤ motifs. Carry on. Attack #prayfor. Vigil ❤ motifs. Repeat. After all terror attacks are part and parcel of livung in a City now.

Posted by: On the edge Jun 11 2017, 02:15 PM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Jun 11 2017, 02:49 PM) *
Attack. #prayfor. Vigil. ❤ motifs. Carry on. Attack #prayfor. Vigil ❤ motifs. Repeat. After all terror attacks are part and parcel of livung in a City now.


So, the IRA terror attacks didn't happen, Baader Minehoff just an illusion, Communist Anarchists, Suffregettes etc.etc,etc. simply didn't occur?

Where have you been TDH?

Posted by: je suis Charlie Jun 11 2017, 02:27 PM

What's different here, today, is the growth of the oil economy. This has funded the rise of Daesh through weapons sales, transport, training and the inward infrastructure needed to become a global threat. As oil starts to run short more and more 'action' groups will scrabble over the wealth of the west. Global terrorism will proliferate and no one, anywhere will be safe. Its like Japanese knotweed, root it out at the source or it will bring the house down.

Posted by: newres Jun 11 2017, 03:15 PM

QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ Jun 11 2017, 03:27 PM) *
What's different here, today, is the growth of the oil economy. This has funded the rise of Daesh through weapons sales, transport, training and the inward infrastructure needed to become a global threat. As oil starts to run short more and more 'action' groups will scrabble over the wealth of the west. Global terrorism will proliferate and no one, anywhere will be safe. Its like Japanese knotweed, root it out at the source or it will bring the house down.

Which didn't exist until Gulf War 2. The west is responsible for the chaos there.

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Jun 11 2017, 03:34 PM

QUOTE (On the edge @ Jun 11 2017, 03:15 PM) *
So, the IRA terror attacks didn't happen, Baader Minehoff just an illusion, Communist Anarchists, Suffregettes etc.etc,etc. simply didn't occur?

Where have you been TDH?


Not starring in La La land. Like you. As I have said I want Corbyn to win the next GE. I will vote for him. Be fooking great being overseas watching. 😂

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Jun 11 2017, 03:36 PM

QUOTE (newres @ Jun 11 2017, 04:15 PM) *
Which didn't exist until Gulf War 2. The west is responsible for the chaos there.


You are quite right. The west is evil. Best off it ended and was replaced by something better or more "fundamental".

Posted by: Andy Capp Jun 11 2017, 04:21 PM

What would have become of the UK in WW2 had it been full of people like TDH?

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Jun 11 2017, 04:24 PM

QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Jun 11 2017, 05:21 PM) *
What would have become of the UK in WW2 had it been full of people like TDH?



Fortunately we have lots of pacifists now.
The Corbynator will take you back to the 1970s.

Posted by: On the edge Jun 11 2017, 05:30 PM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Jun 11 2017, 04:34 PM) *
Not starring in La La land. Like you. As I have said I want Corbyn to win the next GE. I will vote for him. Be fooking great being overseas watching. 😂


Clearly not! Us townies don't get scared so easily that's why you see us as a bit blasé. Might be worth selling up right now; there's likely to be a migration whoever takes power, May with NI's finest means the several population segments will be thinking the same way.

For your own sake TDH, go, and go now. Don't look back, not that you'll have much time to do that what with searching for your Marmite! Canada seems best, but avoid the French bits, they get a bit restive at times and dare I say, violent and tend to speak their silly lingo.

Oh dear, ain't life hard when you are rich!

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Jun 11 2017, 05:39 PM

QUOTE (On the edge @ Jun 11 2017, 06:30 PM) *
Clearly not! Us townies don't get scared so easily that's why you see us as a bit blasé. Might be worth selling up right now; there's likely to be a migration whoever takes power, May with NI's finest means the several population segments will be thinking the same way.

For your own sake TDH, go, and go now. Don't look back, not that you'll have much time to do that what with searching for your Marmite! Canada seems best, but avoid the French bits, they get a bit restive at times and dare I say, violent and tend to speak their silly lingo.

Oh dear, ain't life hard when you are rich!


Even better. I can vote for the Corbynator from overseas. Canadas a bit cold. My mates in the Bahamas will show me the way. Enjoy your marxist paradise.😂 Already made a few quid by shorting the pound. Lifes great!!!

Posted by: On the edge Jun 11 2017, 05:44 PM

QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ Jun 11 2017, 03:27 PM) *
What's different here, today, is the growth of the oil economy. This has funded the rise of Daesh through weapons sales, transport, training and the inward infrastructure needed to become a global threat. As oil starts to run short more and more 'action' groups will scrabble over the wealth of the west. Global terrorism will proliferate and no one, anywhere will be safe. Its like Japanese knotweed, root it out at the source or it will bring the house down.


Quite, so

Coal was never just for burning and we are surrounded by windy seas. Although we could quite quickly massively substantially reduce our reliance on oil. We've sold our infrastructures to French nationalised and German protected monopolies who aren't going to put in any fresh investment. Even new sustainable capacities are rejected by NIMBY protesters; as so well demonstrated in educated West Berkshire.

Energy and chemical feed stock independence is possible and is rather more than just climate change.


Posted by: Biker1 Jun 11 2017, 06:31 PM

An interesting editorial on the renationalisation of the railways as proposed by Corbyn........

"Under privatisation there have been many success stories with record investment levels that have grown passenger numbers to new highs, so what has actually been achieved is a very long way from failure.

Contrary to what some would have you believe, trains today are not unreliable and dirty, and the level of service is far in excess of what BR offered. Yes, with the benefit of hindsight, Privatisation could have been done better and with greater levels of competition and there are still further steps to take, certainly to reduce overcrowding, for example.

It’s no secret that Labour has said if the party wins the election, then renationalisation will be on the cards. However, it’s easy to state intent, but the execution of such a plan could be as complex as ongoing Brexit negotiations!

All of the current franchises are due to come to a natural end between October this year and March 2030, and could revert to state control as they expire.

Playing devil’s advocate for a moment and assuming renationalisation did take place, what happens if, at the next election, (which will be no later than 2022), the pendulum swings back to the Conservatives who inherit a part private/part nationalised railway system? It could result in a right mess.

The prospect of renationalising raises many unanswered questions, such as whether the rolling stock, (which is owned by a number of leasing companies and finance houses and costed over a 30-year asset life) will be bought outright by a Labour government, or would it be a merely selective or partial nationalisation with stock still leased?

With Network Rail already under Government control and the Department for Transport having a major say in how each franchise is run, it is virtually nationalised anyway, so it is questionable where any benefits will come from a fully nationalised railway.

If, for example, rail fares are frozen – or even cut as has been hinted at – will staff salaries be frozen too?

What is not being said is how much a full renationalisation of the railway would cost. There won’t be many who would accurately know the cost, but the value of the 5,500 vehicles on order published in the May issue is around £12bn, so extrapolate that and rail renationalisation could easily cost upwards of £40bn to £50bn, maybe more. And to achieve what? (see Lord Berkeley page 12).

Surely that kind of money would be more wisely invested in our NHS, schools and social care systems, all of which are desperately underfunded and in crisis.

What we don’t want is a halfway house that could create even bigger problems years down the line, but should renationalisation take place, at least when things go wrong we’ll know who to blame. The politicians!"


Perhaps be careful what you wish for!! huh.gif

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Jun 11 2017, 06:51 PM


You have it all wrong biker. Trains will be clean punctual and free. Its all wonderful. And all the Unions will be against striking and everyone gets to travel 1st class. Its all gravy under the messiah. Vote JC!!!!

Posted by: On the edge Jun 11 2017, 08:13 PM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Jun 11 2017, 07:51 PM) *
You have it all wrong biker. Trains will be clean punctual and free. Its all wonderful. And all the Unions will be against striking and everyone gets to travel 1st class. Its all gravy under the messiah. Vote JC!!!!


Glad you like it TDH, but then as even the Daily Mail support this one, I'm not surprised.

Biker is right, but he's got Nu Labour jitters - the same that scared Byers and Prescott from nationalising the track when they had the opportunity. Could have done it for nix as the firm then responsible were essentially bankrupt.

Yes, under the present legislation it would be difficult. However, it's worth remembering that the railways were in private hands before nationalisation the first time and there wasn't a sizmic breakdown when that happened. Similarly when the grouping happened in 1923. That involved many many companies, each with its several separate Acts of Parliament.

Where there's a will, there's away!

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Jun 11 2017, 08:29 PM

QUOTE (On the edge @ Jun 11 2017, 09:13 PM) *
Glad you like it TDH, but then as even the Daily Mail support this one, I'm not surprised.

Biker is right, but he's got Nu Labour jitters - the same that scared Byers and Prescott from nationalising the track when they had the opportunity. Could have done it for nix as the firm then responsible were essentially bankrupt.

Yes, under the present legislation it would be difficult. However, it's worth remembering that the railways were in private hands before nationalisation the first time and there wasn't a sizmic breakdown when that happened. Similarly when the grouping happened in 1923. That involved many many companies, each with its several separate Acts of Parliament.

Where there's a will, there's away!


Yes. I've seen the light. All hail JC. Jeremy has the answers. He is a god amongst men.

Posted by: On the edge Jun 11 2017, 08:43 PM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Jun 11 2017, 09:29 PM) *
Yes. I've seen the light. All hail JC. Jeremy has the answers. He is a god amongst men.


Just to be awkward, no he isn't, he wouldn't claim to be either. He's simply the leader of the party and Labour's democratic approach means he doesn't need to wholeheartedly agree with everything the party says. It's a hard concept, but it means actually listening to its members. We used to have a democracy once in the UK but we let it get away.

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Jun 11 2017, 08:50 PM

QUOTE (On the edge @ Jun 11 2017, 09:43 PM) *
Just to be awkward, no he isn't, he wouldn't claim to be either. He's simply the leader of the party and Labour's democratic approach means he doesn't need to wholeheartedly agree with everything the party says. It's a hard concept, but it means actually listening to its members. We used to have a democracy once in the UK but we let it get away.


Democracy? Like Brexit? Democracy only works if you like the outcome.... Why not just get everyone on line. We could have a Democratic vote everyday. And as a bonus the old wouldn't vote. Not many silver surfers. Yay the young rule!!!

Posted by: Biker1 Jun 12 2017, 05:16 AM

QUOTE (On the edge @ Jun 11 2017, 09:13 PM) *
Glad you like it TDH, but then as even the Daily Mail support this one, I'm not surprised.

Biker is right, but he's got Nu Labour jitters - the same that scared Byers and Prescott from nationalising the track when they had the opportunity. Could have done it for nix as the firm then responsible were essentially bankrupt.

Yes, under the present legislation it would be difficult. However, it's worth remembering that the railways were in private hands before nationalisation the first time and there wasn't a sizmic breakdown when that happened. Similarly when the grouping happened in 1923. That involved many many companies, each with its several separate Acts of Parliament.

Where there's a will, there's away!

The 1923 grouping was done to alleviate the mishmash of over 100 separate companies running similar services in the same place. It was a follow on from the government control of the railways during WW1.
It was done under 1 act of 6 parts.
The 1948 nationalisation was done by taking the "Big Four" into government control (BR). the Big Four owned the lot, track, infrastructure, stations, and rolling stock.
The current system is entirely different and, because of this, entails the major issues of further nationalisation as described above.

Posted by: On the edge Jun 12 2017, 06:07 AM

QUOTE (Biker1 @ Jun 12 2017, 06:16 AM) *
The 1923 grouping was done to alleviate the mishmash of over 100 separate companies running similar services in the same place. It was a follow on from the government control of the railways during WW1.
It was done under 1 act of 6 parts.
The 1948 nationalisation was done by taking the "Big Four" into government control (BR). the Big Four owned the lot, track, infrastructure, stations, and rolling stock.
The current system is entirely different and, because of this, entails the major issues of further nationalisation as described above.


I wholly agree with you that the present arrangements mean that nationalising the railways, by restoring the old model would be hideously difficult and practically unaffordable. In fact, that was the key argument put forward by the Policy Studies Institute for the seemingly inane way privatisation was delivered - to prevent a reversal back to public ownership.

Nevertheless, there are many other ways to skin a cat so to speak, and nationalisation does not necessarily mean re-creating British Rail. In reality, what is needed is public control and accountability. As Ken Livingstone once alluded, to control something, you don't necessarily need to own it. So whilst legislation may need to be complex, bringing the railways back into public control is feasible. For instance, appointing real Regulators with real powers would be a start.

A good example is the original London Transport privatisation. Lord Ashfield an ardent capitalist eventually wanted the government to take over the Underground as it was the only way he could see it could continue. One of our first wave of nationalisations, ironically under a Tory government.

You are spot on, it will be complex and we won't see BR again. However, as those first wave 'nationalisations' demonstrated (BBC, London Transport, Cable and Wireless etc) public ownership / control can give operations we can be proud of again. The only people with anything to fear about public ownership are those presently on the take.

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