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> Immigration Crisis, getting what we deserve?
x2lls
post Sep 9 2015, 12:44 AM
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QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Sep 9 2015, 12:46 AM) *
It's like the NIMBY argument. "We should be doing more: but I'm not."

I think we should help people in need, but the Monster Raving Tory Party are stuck as they have told everyone that Britain cannot afford the benefits bill and is in a middle of an austerity drive. A bit awkward then when a couple of towns worth of people turn-up with no money, food, or home.



So you are of the opinion that only the government should do something?


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je suis Charlie
post Sep 9 2015, 07:03 AM
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QUOTE (x2lls @ Sep 9 2015, 12:36 AM) *
Why should you challenge the way you have?
Heather made a valid and if you look, the first non bigoted comment for a long while in this thread.
Just reread yourselves and think for crying out loud.

I just want to know what all the hair readers and breast beaters are going to do themselves is all, apart from putting 50p in the tin and suggesting that (other) people should open their homes. Too many people are swept up in the media hysteria for their own good. Don't like my opinion? Tough!
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Andy Capp
post Sep 9 2015, 08:18 AM
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QUOTE (x2lls @ Sep 9 2015, 01:44 AM) *
So you are of the opinion that only the government should be doing something?

Not at all, where did that idea come from? However, it is they that are best placed to maximise effort and have best access to intelligence.

Mind you, the Monster Raving Tories now have to try and explain how they can afford the apparently unaffordable.
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motormad
post Sep 9 2015, 11:44 AM
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QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Sep 9 2015, 12:46 AM) *
It's like the NIMBY argument. "We should be doing more: but I'm not."

I think we should help people in need, but the Monster Raving Tory Party are stuck as they have told everyone that Britain cannot afford the benefits bill and is in a middle of an austerity drive. A bit awkward then when a couple of towns worth of people turn-up with no money, food, or home.


We have thousands of homeless people within our own borders who are suffering from homelessness
We have thousands of families who have both parents working full time but cannot afford to feed their only child.
We have people who need help. In our country.
We never help them.


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Turin Machine
post Sep 9 2015, 12:58 PM
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QUOTE (motormad @ Sep 9 2015, 12:44 PM) *
We have thousands of homeless people within our own borders who are suffering from homelessness
We have thousands of families who have both parents working full time but cannot afford to feed their only child.
We have people who need help. In our country.
We never help them.

I have to say I have a deal of sympathy for this point of view. My concerns over this whole asylum issue is not with those who are genuinely fleeing violence but with those who will piggy back on top of this, the economic migrants. Also, it seems odd that we expend great sums of cash stopping people who have gone to Syria from coming back for security reasons and yet seem bent on opening the gates to tens of thousands of Syrians whome I suspect will be subjected to the most cursory of checks.

Let's neither forget that not all of Syria is war torn and not all Syrians are poor and helpless, I would like to see a little more balance and a bit less of the "swivel eyed loony" type sound bites some people are so fond of.


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Berkshirelad
post Sep 9 2015, 01:30 PM
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QUOTE (Turin Machine @ Sep 9 2015, 01:58 PM) *
a bit less of the "swivel eyed loony" type sound bites some people are so fond of.


But the fact that people are fond of them, is what causes them in the first place. Without these people, the tabloid press would be bereft of all income
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On the edge
post Sep 9 2015, 04:44 PM
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It seems to be the 'economic migrants' who get the bad press. Young fit people who move away from home to seek a better life. So then, what's the issue? They aren't looking for benefits, they are looking for work. We seem to have rather a lot of that which our indigenous population doesn't seem to want. Apparently the Worcestershire and East Anglian farmers can't cope without these migratory workers. Similarly our health service relies on such workers to do much of the essential but menial tasks needed. Interesting too, that whenever we hear tough talk from politicians, industry squeals about the loss of IT experts etc. Got a choice haven't we - who is willing to pay a lot more for food, health care etc. etc.


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Berkshirelad
post Sep 10 2015, 08:59 AM
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However, many of the 'economic migrants' are (anecdotally) only coming here for the improvement in their benefits.

Why are all those people in Calais trying to get to GB; they are already in a safe country and if they were fit and healthy and willing to work, the French would surely welcome them with open arms.

People who are 'fleeing a war-torn country' are safe the moment they leave the country - why do they then need to travel still further other than for economic reasons? Britain has been helping these refugees by helping to pay for the refugee camps; what we are not doing is allowing free movement from elsewhere in the EU.

Schengen has proved unworkable - and this is why
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On the edge
post Sep 10 2015, 09:36 PM
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QUOTE (Berkshirelad @ Sep 10 2015, 09:59 AM) *
However, many of the 'economic migrants' are (anecdotally) only coming here for the improvement in their benefits.

Why are all those people in Calais trying to get to GB; they are already in a safe country and if they were fit and healthy and willing to work, the French would surely welcome them with open arms.

People who are 'fleeing a war-torn country' are safe the moment they leave the country - why do they then need to travel still further other than for economic reasons? Britain has been helping these refugees by helping to pay for the refugee camps; what we are not doing is allowing free movement from elsewhere in the EU.

Schengen has proved unworkable - and this is why


...and not everything the Daily Mail print is true either.


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spartacus
post Sep 13 2015, 05:58 PM
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I see the German model on dealing with the migrant crisis is starting to show cracks. I suspect there was an element of wanting to be able to process the flood so they at least had first dibs on the most educated, or those deemed most likely to be of benefit to Germany's workforce. That way they could then pass on the least desirable chaff to other nations with a smug grin.... Perhaps the sheer numbers are not what they expected and even the renowned German efficiency is struggling to cope.

Octoberfest this year in Munich (where many of the influx are being processed) is going to be a corker though... Scantily clad, large breasted women serving loads of beer and pork products.
What could possibly go wrong...............?
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je suis Charlie
post Sep 13 2015, 06:09 PM
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Ich bin ein bomber?
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Berkshirelad
post Sep 14 2015, 01:06 PM
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QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ Sep 13 2015, 07:09 PM) *
Ich bin ein bomber?


Your German grammar is faulty rolleyes.gif German doesn't use the 'a' so it shouldn't be translated
Ich bin bomber

JFK once said in a speech in Berlin "Ich bin ein Berliner" - meaning he was a bread roll called a Berliner. He should have said "Ich bin Berliner" if he wanted to convey solidarity with the populace of Berlin.
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spartacus
post Sep 14 2015, 06:50 PM
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QUOTE (Berkshirelad @ Sep 14 2015, 02:06 PM) *
Your German grammar is faulty rolleyes.gif German doesn't use the 'a' so it shouldn't be translated
Ich bin bomber

JFK once said in a speech in Berlin "Ich bin ein Berliner" - meaning he was a bread roll called a Berliner. He should have said "Ich bin Berliner" if he wanted to convey solidarity with the populace of Berlin.

errm.... that's not quite true.
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je suis Charlie
post Sep 14 2015, 07:03 PM
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QUOTE (spartacus @ Sep 14 2015, 07:50 PM) *
errm.... that's not quite true.

Err, Berlinner does not refer to a bread roll!
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spartacus
post Sep 14 2015, 08:30 PM
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QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ Sep 14 2015, 08:03 PM) *
Err, Berlinner does not refer to a bread roll!



I was referring to the German grammar. It's correct to use 'ein' in a statement such as your 'Ich bin ein bomber'.

As for JFK's supposed gaffe, it was correct for him to use 'ein' in his "Ich bin ein Berliner!" speech. In statements of nationality or citizenship German often leaves off the 'ein', (similarly people from Glasgow will say "I'm Glaswegian"), but as JFK wasn't literally from Berlin, he was merely expressing that he was 'one' of them, there was no gaffe made. It was only when the speech was analysed and broken down much later that this 'error' was played up for comic effect by the press. His audience however were Berliners and whilst people from outside of Berlin might refer to the popular small doughnuts as 'Berliners', people from Berlin call them pfannkuchen, so there was no confusion in the audience.

The speech was also written with help from the chief German interpreter for the United States during World War II, who was a Berliner and JFK practised his phonetic German in front of Willy Brandt and many other Germans before stepping out onto the balcony. If it was a gaffe it would have been picked up. It's just that over time it's become an erroneous 'fact' by word of mouth as that's funnier.
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Sherlock
post Sep 17 2015, 09:56 AM
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Meanwhile it seems that only 20% of asylum applications received so far this year in Germany are from Syrians.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-34270077

As the BBC's Mark Urban points out, many of the rest are from migrants from safe countries who are exploiting the crisis in Syria for their own economic gain. Further confirmation that Cameron's policy of helping those in the refugee camps makes a lot sense.

This from the Guardian is also an interesting read - note the majority of comments are not sympathetic to the author.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2...s-calais-jungle

We have a huge problem on our hands and economic migrants are crowding out those with genuine needs. I wonder why we can't help establish refugee camps in southern Europe and insist that all asylum applicants apply and are processes there. Genuine applicants could then be resettled on a quota basis across the EU with each country taking a proportion based on its overall population. They would be given asylum visas on the basis that they would return to their country of origin if and when conditions allowed.

In parallel with this, anyone entering a country illegally or being found to commit another crime after entry - by stowing away on lorries etc - would be repatriated.

Who could possibly object?
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gel
post Sep 17 2015, 10:48 AM
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How do authorities deport, when these illegals have destroyed all documentation. Must make identifying country of birth nigh impossible I'd have thought.?

The ever bullying EU is even demanding non EU countries eg Iceland must take quotas too.
If not, there will be £€ penalties £€ as they trade with EU..showing their disregard for democracy as normal.
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je suis Charlie
post Sep 19 2015, 07:12 PM
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Seriously, listen to the BBC yesterday, interviewed an "asylum seeker". Asked him what he did, what was life like in southern Libya? He said it was terrible. Reporter asked, so what did you do? Expecting farmer, worker, shepherd. Was told, I had a good job! Reporter (somewhat confused) said " a good job?" Man said, yes a bank manager! But the war very bad, damaged my car. So I come to Europe. Appearing in a Lloyds near you, very soon!
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On the edge
post Sep 19 2015, 07:35 PM
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QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ Sep 19 2015, 08:12 PM) *
Seriously, listen to the BBC yesterday, interviewed an "asylum seeker". Asked him what he did, what was life like in southern Libya? He said it was terrible. Reporter asked, so what did you do? Expecting farmer, worker, shepherd. Was told, I had a good job! Reporter (somewhat confused) said " a good job?" Man said, yes a bank manager! But the war very bad, damaged my car. So I come to Europe. Appearing in a Lloyds near you, very soon!


That's great; does it mean they'll be reopening branches? Hope so! If Libya is short of bankers because of this, perhaps they might like some of ours in return. laugh.gif


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TallDarkAndHands...
post Sep 20 2015, 08:30 PM
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What the West would do for a Gadaffi and Hussein again.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-11139345

We should never forgive Blair & co. They have created the greatest humanitarian crisis in decades. angry.gif
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