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Posted by: motormad Dec 23 2013, 09:47 AM

I'm trying to buy a house unfortunately I can only get a mortgage for £129k.

(this is for a single application with a £10k deposit that I've saved up). My requirement is a 1 or 2 bedroom with a garage and driveway in a somewhat decent area. Houses that fit this bill are around £165k

I'm sure if I was with a fit young rich women I wouldn't have on issues but anyway.

I am looking at otherwise buying part-buy part rent scheme. As from what I believe you buy a % of the property and rent the remaining percentage from the council.
My worry is that the house would never be mine, and that the council could in effect boot me out by giving me my % cost back and thus leaving me without a home. I'm aware there would probably be notice periods for such like but I would not like to be in that situation anyway.

I'd also be worried that I couldn't modify the house, you know, lower it, some sick rims brap, some double glazing, maybe an extension, you know..

Does anyone have any experience with these sorts of schemes?
Cheers

Posted by: On the edge Dec 23 2013, 10:28 AM

My niece lives in one, in Surrey. It was the only way she thought to get some fairly reasonable accommodation. She seems quite happy with the financial arrangements. Another victim of the recession, they thought promotion and pay rises would enable them to buy the whole thing or move. That didn't happen of course. Apparently, there are a good few rules, which some might think irksome.

Another way, a bit more traditional, would be for you to try and find something in your price band, in one of the run down areas; but one you think might be on the up. Bits of Turnpike, and some of the other older ex Council areas are becoming more gentrified. Property there is generally well constructed and spacious. Have a good look and a good think.

Posted by: Turin Machine Dec 23 2013, 10:32 AM

I applaud your probity good sir, I know that purchasing ones very own manor can be a bit of a fiscal strain but one that is worth the effort in the long run. As to your original enquiry it a bit of a gamble to do a 50% plan as what you want from the property may not be what the other party has in mind, in that respect it is quite close to rental but with a stake in the future housing market.

For preference I would aim at perhaps an apartment or similar to start, build up some equity and move up, not what you want to hear but, starting on the ladder is always difficult but always ultimately rewarding. Be aware that when you move from renting to purchase you will be looking at bills for house maintenance, something you will not have with rental.

I do know several people who in the past took part in similar schemes as you envisage and were over the moon so its well worth further investigation.

Happy Christmas.

Posted by: motormad Dec 23 2013, 10:40 AM

OTE -

A mate of mine has moved into a nice area on the back end of turnpike. I'd certainly be happy living there.
It is the rules that would get to me, I'm not one for rules. I'm very much of the mindset that I would like to do what I want with my house, not unreasonable really. But I want to know if I get a pet or decide to paint the garage walls bright pink I am not going to get told off.

For me the main reason of wanting to move is wanting my own space and somewhere safe and secure to keep my car. IE not on the road and not in an area where bits would be stolen/the vehicle vadalised. Don't want to sound all big headed but I'm used to a standard of living, in terms of the properties I've rented thus far.

The only kind of property I can actually afford myself would be a 1 or 2 bedroom flat or terraced house with communal or on-street parking - both a no no. I've lived in a bunch of flats with communal parking and just things like washing the car were a ballache.

TM -

Yes it's basically renting half a house?! As you say it's not what the other party (council) have in mind. Maybe I will be classed as vexatious for wanting to fit double glazing.
I've calculated I can go to around £1100 with all bills to allow me to have a somewhat decent quality of life. The mortgages I've been looking at vary from £700 to £900 a month, and with cheap rate gas/electric and council tax of approx £150 a month I think I can (just) get that.

It's just a big investment and I'd rather do it right the first time. How I envy the older generation who bought a house for £50k and it's not worth £180k :lol;

Posted by: Andy Capp Dec 23 2013, 10:54 AM

I think you are answering your own question. Part ownership, or selling the motor are the two decisions, otherwise you'll just have to keep renting. Mind you, you could consider moving elsewhere. I think part ownership is OK, I doubt any restrictions would go beyond any planning restrictions anyway.

Posted by: motormad Dec 23 2013, 11:15 AM

The car is absolutely not up for discussion. It owes me nothing, all paid for with cash. Not going anywhere.


I've not looked elsewhere really. My Mum is in Thatcham, I have friends in Thatcham/Newbury and over towards Fleet, and West London areas. Moving up North would net me a property for the money I have but I don't want to.

Guess it is part buy for me

If it's just planning restriction permission then fine, but it's finding the right property in the right area. I think there were only 3 or 4 properties around, that were part ownership and they were all flats.

Posted by: Andy Capp Dec 23 2013, 11:32 AM

That's fair enough, but at the moment it could be argued it owes you a house, as the decision of where to buy is governed by your need to house it. I appreciate you are a 'Dub-nut', but you might find yourself looking back in twenty years time with regret that you were late getting a house due to the bond with your car.

Unless, of course, you could find somewhere to mothball-it so that you could get a 'bland runabout' for day to day stuff.


Looks like it's renting then!

Posted by: Turin Machine Dec 23 2013, 12:42 PM

The rather obvious solution COULD be buy a flat and rent a separate garage?? Oh and by the way, buying a house was never easy, £50k may seem cheap but 30 years ago with interest rates at 13% it was a giant ball ache !

Posted by: On the edge Dec 23 2013, 01:40 PM

At least back then, there were a good few properties in the 'three times your salary' price range, today there aren't.

Posted by: motormad Dec 23 2013, 04:04 PM

That is an option - problem is they are often in separate blocks, sometimes 100 yards away sometimes half a mile away. I can live with a detached garage in the same area (eg a detached garage on the same plot land) but not one around the corner,

With flats as well, you often get service charges on top of the existing rent...

Just one I've found, it's £70k there abouts...

Lease: Approximately 120 years remaining.
Rent: £201.69 (50%)
Service Charge: £104.48


I found this - http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-41851295.html

Again would be ideal however the service charge is annoying, puts me off flats, as well as the whole "communal space" thing.

I could get probably 65% ownership of that so the rent would go down I assume but you're paying a service charge anyway... I've lived in properties like this before and not a fan.

No garage, communal off road parking. No thanks.




Understand what you're saying but it's akin to being asked to sell one of your children. I'm going to be getting a runabout...so my car can stay in the garage. But this is all pending funds available.

Selling my car won't enable me to get the house I want - And as I said getting rid of it is non negotiable.

I had a Street Triple R a few years ago. I sold it to buy a car (my old TDI that I bought for the huge miles I used to do for work) and that's the biggest mistake I've made. I'm not going to make the same mistake again.

I'd rather continue renting and be miserable where I live yet know I have my car and my friends I can see and hang out with than have a house but no social life.

Posted by: Andy Capp Dec 23 2013, 04:23 PM

I fear many people (including me), have this emotion in their 20s, but now know that had I been more forward thinking (easier said than done) and realised that friendships tend to be rather superficial and are not always a good reason postpone prudent financial investments (like a house).

However, it is most likely that in 10 years time you will have got rid of your coveted car and will be irritated that you held on to it forsaking a house: in ten years time you will obviously have 10 years smaller mortgage window.

But you are also right in that not having the car will not give you the house you want, but it means you can be more flexible about what and where you buy. It is harder to by a home you love than it is to buy a car you love. Unless its a retro classic.

Posted by: gel Dec 23 2013, 08:34 PM

This link may help:

http://www.sovereignliving.org.uk/Webpage/48/Shared-Ownership

Posted by: spartacus Dec 23 2013, 08:35 PM

tsk tsk...We're moving away from the 'Council House' tag if you don't mind... so down market and trailer trashy. These days it's 'Affordable Housing' through Housing Associations (I don't think WBC own ANY houses now do they?)

My daughter's gone down this route and is perfectly happy with the 50/50 arrangement. Has been living in a brand new 2 bed top floor apartment with two parking spaces (and double glazing!) for around 2 years now, which she would never have been able to afford otherwise. Bank of Mum & Dad stumped up most of the deposit (not that we're trying to force her to flee the nest or anything... ) but she's the envy of her friends, is thoroughly enjoying her independent status and is managing to cope with the bills. With top floor she's maybe benefiting from other flats rising hot air, but her heating bills are minimal (or maybe new apartments are actually delivering on the promise to be energy efficient?), the management fee is pretty small, the new estate she's living in is nice and quiet and I'm quite jealous of her (never had such a big place when I was her age)

She's gone just over the border with Sentinel Housing in Hampshire. As with all new developments (even swanky new ones like Parkway) there has to be a proportion of 'affordable' homes and that's where she slotted in. There's a few new developments in Basingstoke area but they also have some that aren't brand spanking new...

A step on the housing ladder is what's been ingrained to us in this country as a 'must have' but renting is pretty much the norm nearly everywhere in Europe

Posted by: gel Dec 23 2013, 09:02 PM

(I don't think WBC own ANY houses now do they?)

Most Councils will have small number of dwellings for emergency cases, perhaps the expected E European influx will fall into this category.

Posted by: Exhausted Dec 23 2013, 10:06 PM

Nothing very much has changed in terms of affording to buy and live in any owned/mortgaged property. If one looks back 15 years the deposit was just as difficult to achieve, both getting a mortgage and affording the payments made things very tight.
Couple of things worth looking at, save with a local building society, they look more kindly on their investors. The Newbury Building Society is excellent in that direction.
Look for a property "in need of modernisation". The real bad ones will be snapped up by developers but the right ones still come on the market now and again but you have to be sure that it is mortgagable and that the rectification work you can do yourself. It's amazing how quickly you learn the basics of the building trade if you have the right attitude. A pot of paint and perhaps a bit of plaster and a few mates can work wonders.
Keep it for a year and sell and move up but remember that building regs are very tight these days so stay within them or you won't be able to sell.
Don't overstrech the mortgage payments as you will take a real hit if interest rates go up.
Now is probably the time to buy to renovate.

Posted by: On the edge Dec 23 2013, 10:55 PM

1975, earning a shade under £3,000pa as a simple clerk. Managed to scrape together £1,000 (yes bank of mum n dad) and could afford a three bed terrace in Reading, or a selection of flats, selling for around £9,000.

Today, those self same clerks get around £25,000pa. Self same terraced house, with little more done to it, was up for £200,000. Very much more than 3 times that salary!

I feel very sorry for the youngsters today. The house owning democracy was always a con, but it ain't us oldies who will suffer for falling for that one.

Posted by: motormad Dec 24 2013, 09:40 AM

I work full time (and actually normally do more like extra time) , I don't really have the time, knowledge or inclination to buy a run down property to renovate it. It could be done but for a first time purchase I don't think it would be a wise decision. I have nowhere I can stay for an extended period of time during renovations either.

Posted by: Exhausted Dec 24 2013, 07:18 PM

Make part of it habitable and live in it. You have evenings and weekends. Very do-able or do you want it all on a plate with new dishwasher, washing machine. If so then it sounds like an apartment with roadside parking.

Posted by: motormad Dec 25 2013, 11:48 AM

I don't want it on a plate. Well, I do.
But what I'm saying is I am not happy investing into a development property. As a first time buy I do not think that is wise at all.

Posted by: Exhausted Dec 25 2013, 08:14 PM

I think you are getting mixed up between a development and an improvement property. Improvement usually means decorating, painting and flooring and perhaps new windows. This type of property is, in my opinion, desirable and will provide added value on resale. It's not the type of property that new buys normally want and it will be too good for competition from a developer. You can decorate it to your own taste rather than builder's magnolia and cheap cord carpet. Pop down the estate agents and ask if they have anything and have a look.

Take it from me, you won't lose. Properties unlike cars appreciate and providing you get the right survey done you will be quids in and if you put in the effort, call in a few favours from mates it will work.

Posted by: Strafin Dec 26 2013, 01:27 PM

What about a caravan?

Posted by: The Hatter Dec 26 2013, 02:33 PM

Mates of mine lives on Ravenswing, they wouldn't live anywhere else. Recon it's far better than the flat they had in Reading.

Posted by: HJD Dec 26 2013, 05:23 PM

I was brought up in a 'Council House' as they were known then & I suspect a large percentage of working class people were before Thatcher persuaded people to take up the right to buy. Most of my friends & relations lived in them ( some still do ) & the proud owners kept them well decorated / gardens cultivated etc. more so than some of the private owners I knew, ( unless they paid for a man to do the work for them, my father being one ! ). Unfortunately the tag 'Council House' these days seems to have the stigma attached as only being available & lived in by Unmarried Mothers or the Unemployed, which is a pity because there are still decent hard working people around who live in them or would probably like to given the chance.

Posted by: JeffG Dec 26 2013, 07:18 PM

I don't think you are allowed to talk about unmarried mothers in today's PC climate.

Posted by: On the edge Dec 27 2013, 07:42 PM

Ironic what's happened. Council housing originated to house 'the deserving poor', to lift them out of poor / slum housing. The basic idea being the vacant housing could be taken by the remaining poor. Then, whilst Minister of Health immediately after the war, Bevan was also responsible for housing; his take being that Council Houses should be so good, no one in their right mind would want a private one....then along came Supermac, who reduced the spec. and so the slow decline set in. The concept is great, fair rents, landlord keeps property in good fettle. The trouble is in the name, Council...they simply used their estates as cash cows, failed to do the repairs, failed to manage lettings, failed to keep the design principles. Mrs T just pushed the door the Councils left wide open, an absolute gift to her sponsors in banking!

Posted by: Baffers100 Feb 18 2014, 03:39 PM

My first home was a shared ownership property. We managed to get a 2 bedroom semi detached new build and paid less for our rent and mortgage combined than we were previosly paying to rent a flat at Jago Court. In fact, we saved around £200 a month. Plus, you can rent flats with deposits form as low as £5k

You can make modifications to shared ownership properties. They're fine (depending on the housing association) for you to make cosmetic changes and keep pets. You can't sub-let, make structural changes (eg add on a conservatory) or change the purpose of the room (eg convert a garage).

With regards to having something that may not ever be yours- you may find shared ownership will have cost benefits to you over renting, plus if you get a repayment mortgage and don't just pay the interest each month then you are clearing your mortgage down. There's something called 'staircasing' where you can buy a greater % should you wish to but we didn't go down this route.

There's no (again depending on the H/A) checks or other interference from the council and you get a lot of helpful advice through the process, and I would definately recommen

It's important to do some reseach as shared wnership and shared equity are different. You should speak to your local HA as your first port of call really.

Posted by: gel Feb 18 2014, 05:17 PM

And for the not so poor:

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/460202/Fury-at-5-000-who-earn-100-000-or-more-and-live-in-COUNCIL-HOUSES

Posted by: On the edge Feb 18 2014, 05:33 PM

Rather interesting that!

Council housing didn't start for the poor - rather the artisan who was striving to better himself. The idea being that the lower quality accommodation he left could be used for the real poor from the slums. In the late 1940s Nye Bevan as well as delivering the NHS also built a large number of very high quality council houses - his (and his Socialist colleagues) vision was that everyone would want to live in a house of such good quality, set in a pleasant environment, managed by the council. Laudable aims, but he reckoned without the Tories and the Council. Bob Crowe should actually be applauded for sticking to his Socialist convictions.

Posted by: spartacus Feb 18 2014, 08:24 PM

You need to reassess your priorities mate... If you spent rather less time buffing up your car to such a high sheen and allocated just a few of those precious hours you spend every day cleaning all the dust off your alloys on some DIY, then you may just surprise yourself by finding that you're sat on the first rung on the property ladder. Having a place of your own is probably just a shade more satisfying than having a concours standard motor standing on the driveway of your mum's home.....

Posted by: motormad Feb 18 2014, 08:34 PM

Good to hear that it worked out for you... like you always hear these things but it's good to read someone's actual opinion about it.

I will / have been looking into it. The problem with this whole thing is that the market around here is pretty dry. Houses and flats are hard to find as well
I've been looking on RightMove, Zoopla (is it that one?) and a few others. The only shared ownership properties around are flats which I don't want




I'll do what I want with my time, thank you.. !!!
As an example I left for work at 6:45am and have gotten through the door less than 10 minutes ago. That is not an uncommon working pattern considering I'm actually a 9-5 kind of guy. Those precious hours I spend on my car are what stop me from going completely insane.

Regardless of what I can or can't do with my time, there are no decent properties to buy let alone ones in need of renovation in the local area, in a nice area (IE not the bad side of Turnpikey or some ex-drug lords flat). By the time you've bought a run down old shack you then need to invest heavily in it and unless you do a lot of it yourself (I cannot afford to mortgage a home and continue to rent privately) you get HUGE builders fees.

The motor is parked on the driveway of the house I privately rent, like it has been for the last 4 and a half years, thanks.
Although I get your sentiment. It's finding a property that's a difficult thing at the moment

Posted by: Claude Feb 19 2014, 08:52 AM

I sympathise with you and others in a similar situation, especially given that house prices are predicted to continue to rise in future.

Posted by: On the edge Feb 19 2014, 09:30 AM

Yes, wholly agree. In real terms house prices have significantly increased. Yes, sure a few of us did the buy a wreck and do it up path - but many others didn't. After all DIY is just as much a hobby as looking after cars. Co-ownership is simply a panecea, in cynical terms a way of getting you the tenant to do the landlords job!

Posted by: JeffG Feb 19 2014, 12:41 PM

We oldies were lucky to get in on the ground floor - my first house cost £4,500. It was a new build semi. We couldn't afford the detached as it was over five thousand!

Posted by: On the edge Feb 19 2014, 01:28 PM

Quite, ours was a terrace in Reading for £9,100. Just able to do that on an average wage for my age at the time, just under £3,000pa. Let's just assume a clerical type job pays around £25,000pa today, where can you find the equivalent for £75,000?

Posted by: Andy Capp Feb 19 2014, 01:35 PM

Housing policy since the 80 has been ruinous. Fine flog the houses Thatcher so that no-one feels inclined to strike and create a sense of ownership, but if you don't build any more you will just create a massive problem down the line. And of course, everyone has a castle, creating even more fractious communities (i.e. nimbys). Now we have a situation where we can't build too many homes through fear of devaluation. A perfect storm.

Posted by: On the edge Feb 19 2014, 01:37 PM

That's a great summary.

Posted by: spartacus Feb 19 2014, 04:08 PM

I can't comprehend just how difficult it is for younger people to find somewhere to settle down around this area. Eye-watering house prices.

The only thing I would perhaps strongly suggest is to check the market in the next few months, as (once the waters have subsided) there will be a considerable number of residents who have been ground down by the floods and may be wanting to sell up and move - at any price..

Their depressed and default position will be that nobody will want to buy. The house price will reflect that and the flood history associated with the property will allow you to put in what might have been a 'silly offer' only a year ago. You may have to be prepared to be ruthless, but for a house which has suffered some flooding it may present your only opportunity of getting a decent home around here. Keep your head screwed on and both parties could shake hands on a house purchase which they both feel they haven't done badly from.

Current owner gets to move from a house where they have suffered loss of possessions and are angry about what they have had to endure and doesn't want to even think about going through it all again. But they have at least found a buyer (a mug as far as they are concerned).

You on the other hand get a house at a bargain basement price and know what you're buying into and can forward plan accordingly. You can take the view that the recent weather is something that COULD happen again, but if the Council, the EA, Thames Water etc put in remedial flood alleviation measures over the next year or more then it may have to be considerably worse weather than we've had even this year for it to have the same flood problem on the property.

Clearing drainage ditches, improving riverbank protection, ensuring the protection of houses takes priority over the protection of habitat for some obscure molluscs could potentially mean you could get a home that never suffers another flood for the next decade....


In truth I don't think there could be a better time for you to buy! You just need to be ballsy..

Posted by: spartacus Feb 19 2014, 04:45 PM

The 2007 floods damaged hundreds of homes in Thatcham and families were living in mobile homes and caravans on their front garden for months afterwards. Many sold up, not wanting to repeat the experience. But flood improvement works were undertaken in the interim and despite the poor weather and being close to the river and canal, not one of those homes have been flooded this year. The residents that stayed will have been worried and holding their breath, but whatever work was done to protect their homes and prevent a repeat has worked... and worked very well.

Posted by: On the edge Feb 19 2014, 05:21 PM

Yes, that's pretty good advice. The defence work Newbury already has in place, demonstrably works; so there may well be bargains. I know someone who lives by the river, which didn't actually get into her property, but she's selling - simply because it worried her.

Posted by: MontyPython Feb 19 2014, 06:32 PM

....and be prepared to have a house that you can't insure!

Posted by: NWNREADER Feb 19 2014, 06:41 PM

If you are 'only' qualified for a £129k mortgage then you are going to have to save a lot more than a £10k deposit to buy anything in Newbury that is 'good to go'. Plus, the market for cheaper places is fairly silly with cash buyers, investors and such like grabbing anything they can - even places with obvious defects.
The other trap is a lender being prepared to stump up the readies for a house that needs work. They may value it at less that the asked/offered price....
If your basic pay (which the mortgage offer is based on) is not good then without a big deposit you are a bit strapped in this area....

Posted by: Turin Machine Feb 19 2014, 11:23 PM

I know, I just had to pay £185k for another place in Thatcham that needs at least £15k spending on it before I can rent it out, prices round here are going through the roof vis a vis purchase price against return.

Posted by: NWNREADER Feb 20 2014, 10:07 AM

No disrespect, but 'Buy to Rent' does not help the 'Buy to Live In' situation. The price you are prepared to pay has an eye to ROI, so is higher than a simple occupier. Typical rents are then not far short of the mortgage payment the buyer would've made, but prevents them saving to get ahead.

Simplistic, but if those wanting to make profit stepped back those that want a home might succeed......

Posted by: Strafin Feb 20 2014, 10:15 AM

I have said it before, and I will say it again, no individual should be allowed to own more than one home. You want to be an investor, set up a company. There are far too many well off folk looking out for themselves and using housing to fund their lifestyles and tax avoidances!

Posted by: nerc Feb 20 2014, 11:04 AM

If people want to invest their hard earned money to invest in other properties then good luck to them.
The returns on this type of investment are far better than stocks and shares and certainly more secure.
How can you say they are investing to avoid tax is a rather silly statement.

Posted by: Strafin Feb 20 2014, 11:48 AM

Posted by: Andy Capp Feb 20 2014, 01:19 PM

Buy to rent is understandable, and is likely to be something I would do given the opportunity, but considering the issues we have with housing we should consider making it less attractive. Perhaps a law giving housing association first dibbs on homes valued by an independent arbitrator before they go on the open market; there will be many homes they would not be interested in.

Posted by: NWNREADER Feb 20 2014, 01:48 PM

The bottom line for the rental market seems to be set by the current level of housing benefit. Every property is 'worth' that as a minimum, so anything 'better' is more expensive incrementally.
Properties with sitting tenants are cheaper than those for occupation by the purchaser (look at the market).
Houses you would not live in yourself, but are 'ok' to rent out, are cheaper than houses that are good to move in to.
Places with 2 separate 'living rooms' actually have an extra bedroom to rent. All those potentials push the prices up for people wanting to buy a first home.

Housing as 'business for profit' is valid, but it has a downside when it alters the natural market.

Just my ill-informed opinion....

Posted by: On the edge Feb 20 2014, 02:09 PM

I'd agree with that. In fact in Road to Wigan Pier, Orwell commented that poor rented housing, endemic in the 1930s, wasn't really due to rapacious landlords. More often than not, it was a little old lady who had managed to buy three houses, lived in one and lived off the rent of the other two. As a consequence never had enough money to keep any of them in good repair.

Posted by: Exhausted Feb 20 2014, 05:38 PM

Fair enough, but when she pops her clogs then there are three cheap houses on the market.

Posted by: On the edge Feb 20 2014, 06:05 PM

Good one!

Posted by: nerc Feb 20 2014, 06:49 PM

Strafin,

This what you originally said and then you change things again.

Wake up and smell the coffee

Posted by: NWNREADER Feb 20 2014, 07:34 PM

Not so, as two have sitting tenants and hers will likely need refurbishing....... So will be bought as buy to rent

Posted by: The Optimist Feb 20 2014, 07:54 PM

What you have here is an indication of a strong work ethic and I suspect that this will at some point see your earnings rise to a level that you can afford a little more mortgage and cast a wider net for properties.

The fact you have 10k saved is pretty impressive given you have a passion that it would be very easy to spend that kind of money on. Adding to this as much as possible can only help your house hunting.

More and more people are having to rent throughout their twenties and it seems you're in the same boat. If there is a positive to this it's the sign that banks are not dishing out huge mortgages and are being a little more considerate of what is affordable. A huge driver of the economic problems were caused by stupid interest only mortgages and aggressive selling. Plenty of people lack basic common sense but thankfully you don't.

Everyone is different, but when my friends were buying a house in the mid 2000's I realised I couldn't afford it so waited 4-5 years and kept saving. I eventually bought in 2009 and still living here today and enough room to live here for years to come as we grow our family.

Tough as it is, likely the best advice right now is to keep doing what you're doing and at some point the savings + earnings will translate to an affordable mortgage for a house you want rather than what you have to settle for and be unhappy with.

Good luck to you!

Posted by: Strafin Feb 20 2014, 10:26 PM

What's changed, and what do you mean by "wake up and smell the coffee"?

Posted by: Turin Machine Feb 20 2014, 11:38 PM

Cue Demonic laughter!!!!!

Posted by: Biker1 Feb 21 2014, 06:20 AM

No idea!
Methinks he/she has been to too many board room meetings!

Posted by: On the edge Feb 21 2014, 07:56 AM

And the cycle starts again.

Seriously, 'buy to rent' is a big issue, particularly if we want a decent supply of affordable homes. One of those get rich quick schemes that seem great in theory. Remember, the only place you can go is the tenant. Agreed, rather a lot of money can be made if you are an agent or a solicitor.

Posted by: badmummajamma Feb 21 2014, 12:46 PM

I think this is very sensible.

I'm rapidly approaching the ripe old age of 30 and was fortunate to be able to buy a house this year after fretting about it for a decade. By waiting, saving and putting in a lot of elbow grease, I skipped the flat/one bedroom stage (and all the wasted fees and stamp duty) and have gone straight to a 3-bedroom place that I wont outgrow in five minutes.

However, I have only been able to do this because my long-term girlfriend and I now felt that we were in a position to pool our resources and buy something together.

The fact that you've got 10k saved up is an excellent start, but until you're ready to pair up and pool resources (which should double your deposit and mortgage amount) my advice would be to try and live for as cheaply as possible (I lived with my parents between the age of 26 and 29), enjoy living somewhere where the burden of looking after it rests with someone else and continue to add to that pot.

Then, once you've found that special someone, put your cash together and buy somewhere that needs a little fixing up - within your ability and time to do it yourself. You'll hopefully increase your equity (although this isn't gaurnateed) and it'll help you on the next step up the ladder.

Posted by: Andy Capp Feb 21 2014, 01:18 PM

I don't think he's managed to find the right guy yet!

Posted by: motormad Feb 21 2014, 02:21 PM

You bumder.

I had thought of that. But while it may be very difficult I would not like to be financially tied to a house with a woman. All of those pound coins...

But yes, to have my own house on my own would be nice.
I can't live for free anywhere, I can't move in with my Mum again. Something to do with her pension or something.
Or maybe she hates me.

Posted by: JeffG Feb 21 2014, 10:46 PM

I'm sure she still loves you (somebody has to ), but she would lose her single-occupancy council tax rebate if you moved back in. Maybe that's what you're thinking of.

Posted by: Strafin Feb 22 2014, 12:35 AM

Move back and don't tell anyone then!

Posted by: x2lls Feb 22 2014, 10:05 AM

Which is another way of avoiding tax?

Posted by: JeffG Feb 22 2014, 10:52 AM

Would you deliberately lie on the form that has to be filled in each year, then, to keep the discount? I think that might be a criminal offence.

Posted by: Strafin Feb 22 2014, 02:48 PM

Whoa, not me no. I also don't turn left out of the BP garage!

Posted by: JeffG Feb 22 2014, 03:01 PM

Of course not! Now I realise your user name is really St Rafin.

(Edit: Errm, I don't think turning left is a problem - it's turning right )

Posted by: MontyPython Feb 22 2014, 04:33 PM

So you like to disobey the sign at the garage!

You also seem to support tax evasion for some but not tax avoidance for others, at what level of income and savings do you suggest we make the cutoff?

Posted by: Strafin Feb 22 2014, 05:17 PM

Ok, I made a mistake on the left and right thing! As for the tax avoidance, I have not condoned it at any point, I have only said that it is an option for MM as he isn't so bothered about that sort of thing.

Posted by: nerc Feb 22 2014, 08:15 PM

He doesnt like tax avoidance as he has stated quite clearly with the comments about people having more than 1 home

Posted by: Nothing Much Feb 22 2014, 08:53 PM

This is probably horrid coming from someone who like OTE and JeffG bought at a time when there were hardly any naughts after the price. I did a search for properties that need work in Newbury.

Almost 30 years ago I did the same for Norfolk and came up with a few crackers....
"This property,currently occupied by a donkey has planning permission for a new roof and side wall." There were many like that. I did buy something a little less of a challenge, which is still in full time use by grown family.

Trovit advertised a building for demolition and permission for 2 new homes --pretty cheap...Gone now. But as a possible investor it seemed a good prospect. Close to town centre ,which can only get better.
Sell the rubble,build one and sell one. It sounds bonkers but it could be done, and a dinky car park as well.
A sort of bonded co-op to buy and develop. MM has a bit of deposit, others might fancy a gamble.
The advertised price was less than 200k. Sell the other one off-plan and go for it. ooops someone already has.
ce

Posted by: Strafin Feb 22 2014, 11:12 PM

I wouldn't have thought that many people do?

Posted by: JeffG Feb 23 2014, 10:15 AM

There is nothing wrong with using legal means to avoid paying the government more than is required. That's what IFAs are for.

Posted by: Strafin Feb 23 2014, 10:29 AM

I guess it depends on how much you have sitting around. If you're a Tory voter with a good nest egg you will be happy to exploit loopholes to make sure you don't pay your way. Normally while sitting round complaining about the benefits system and the state of the NHS!

Posted by: JeffG Feb 23 2014, 12:30 PM

Agreed, I am not happy with people exploiting loopholes - it's up to the government to fix them.

On the other hand, when the Revenue brought out IR35 (you can look it up if you're inclined) it virtually killed the software contracting industry stone dead.

Posted by: On the edge Feb 23 2014, 02:12 PM

Tend to agree. The line between avoidance and evasion is very slight. Apparently BBC broadcasters are up to it at the moment, one claiming to be a second hand car salesman! The usual claim 'oh story I didn't understand the rules', indeed same excuse generations of benefits over claimers have also used.

Posted by: MontyPython Feb 23 2014, 02:23 PM

Well with the MP's expenses saga, they are obviously good at exploiting the loopholes - not so sure about their ability to fix them.

Posted by: NWNREADER Feb 23 2014, 03:00 PM

Like Tony B Liar?

Posted by: On the edge Feb 23 2014, 03:57 PM

Sure as eggs are eggs, no matter what legislation some scally will find a way to avoid! In general using the 'I was confused' excuse, tax evasion, benefits fraud,......road sign ignoring

Posted by: motormad Feb 23 2014, 11:27 PM

Ha !

I'm not sure. She said she would lose her income or something and so I'd end up having to pay her lots of monies anyway.
She's probably lying.


Would I exploit a legal loophole in tax if I could (and it was legal?) - Probably. Everyone would let's be honest.
Do I mind if someone earns a few hundred quid each month cash in hand if they're being taxed for their PAYE income? Not at all...
Do I mind if someone is keeping a house off the market for someone who could otherwise buy it (even if it's not myself) and earning up to £2k a month tax free, yes

Everyone has lines I suppose

Posted by: nerc Feb 24 2014, 06:03 AM

Where do you get the £2000 per month tax free figure from?.
Perhaps you should take up book keeping and show me how this works, as my accountant doesnt seem to agree with that when i submit my accounts.

Posted by: x2lls Feb 24 2014, 06:11 AM

In addition, tax IS payable on the sale of a second home!!

Posted by: Strafin Feb 24 2014, 08:19 AM

I take it you have a second house then, is that why you are getting so touchy?

Posted by: x2lls Feb 24 2014, 08:39 AM

Touchy?

It was simply a challenge to an unsubstantiated comment.
As I said, the profit fro the sale of a second home is treated as income, so is taxable.

Posted by: Turin Machine Feb 24 2014, 09:26 AM

I still don't quite understand where the whole tax avoidance thing comes from, I pay a purchase tax when iI buy a property' I get taxed on all earnings from that property, I pay tax (vat) on all work done to the property and I pay tax on any property when I move it on. Tax avoidance? Don't make me laff!

Posted by: motormad Feb 24 2014, 09:56 AM

"Up to". Did you not read? lol

Renting a whole house can be up to around £1200 a month.
Renting individual rooms can go for up to £500 per month. If you have a 5 bedroom house and rent 4 of the rooms out you are earning £1600 per month and this is very rarely declared.

You know full well plenty of people open multiple houses and irrespective of what other tax you pay, people make a large amount of tax-free earning.

Posted by: nerc Feb 24 2014, 11:03 AM

That doesnt add up to your £2,000 per month.
Deduct maintenance, insurance, etc and then pay tax on the income, Cant you read?

Posted by: Strafin Feb 24 2014, 11:14 AM

There are plenty of people who own second houses and pay taxes, I think some people are gettig a little too worked up. My original comment was that far too many people own multiple properties and register them as an income rather than a business. I didn't say everybody was doing that, just that too many are. The thing is with the property boom of the eighties, people view property as a commodity, a cash cow. The prices go up and up, so that landlords have a pension, a failsafe investment, and an income stream, whilst the tenants have less and less chance of ever owning a home. The very root of the problem is greed, which probably could be defined as human nature, and something we all change our minds on frequently as our circumstances change.

Posted by: motormad Feb 24 2014, 11:41 AM

Oh really? I thought 4 x 400 was £2000.....

Most people don't pay tax on second homes that they rent out, unless they go through an agency or estate agents or such like. There are TONS of private renting properties out there. I've rented at 4 different houses now (both an actual flat and "rooms" within a share, and only one paid tax which was because it went through Henwick Properties - I know as I asked them all.

Those that do pay taxes do not always do so correctly as they just state it's an extra income as opposed to a business - Which it actually is, and how it should be registered.

Chill out Winstan.

As Strafin says it's viewed as a cash stream for people who want to die with £80k in their bank accounts.

Posted by: Turin Machine Feb 24 2014, 02:22 PM

I would like to take issue with the blanket statement that 'most people don't pay taxes on second homes' this has not been the case in my experience, most reputable landlords are registered as members of ARLA and submit detailed returns annually to the revenue. If you choose to go on the cheap and rent someones back room with all the hazards that can result in then so be it.

If you rent from an established landlord you gain protection under the law as well as regular inspections from the landlord or his agent. And there seems to be some confusion over tax avoidance (legal) and tax evasion (illegal).

Oh, if if when I die I only have 80k in the bank not only would I have been wasting my time but would also want to know where the rest had gone.

Posted by: On the edge Feb 24 2014, 02:38 PM

That's a pretty good explanation. At the end of the day, exactly as Adam Smith summised back in 18th century.

Posted by: Nothing Much Feb 24 2014, 02:41 PM

Oh, if when I die I only have 80k in the bank not only would I have been wasting my time but would also want to know where the rest had gone.

Quite right too. Although having saved a bit for a fair few years there is something to be gained by selective splashings out.
As in "Reasons to be Cheerfu..aargh..croak"
ce

Posted by: motormad Feb 24 2014, 03:22 PM

fair enough
I can only talk about my experiences at the end of the day

I've not had any serious issues from renting privately but hey.

What good is loads of money when you're dead. Spend some money and have a good life..

Posted by: MontyPython Feb 24 2014, 04:01 PM

....or better still give it to me

Posted by: On the edge Feb 24 2014, 04:32 PM

Brilliant! How do we get on your selection list?

'Dear CE
We are a poor struggling community and know that you are a generous and munificent benefactor. We were wondering if you would spare a thought for our Councillors who are cold and needy. They have a desperate want for robes, in effect only 'workplace garments' and also symbolic identity neck ware, because as I'm sure you'll know, Her Majesty has difficulty reading standard ID Cards. The local burgesses are being very mean in this regard, so anything you can do would be appreciated. Of course, we will name the Council robes after you 'The Nothing Much Ceremonial Dress' .

Any chance? No, didn't think so, will get me coat....

Posted by: Nothing Much Feb 24 2014, 04:54 PM

We are a poor struggling community and know that you are a generous and munificent benefactor

Bleedin' Nigerians get everywhere.

But as you are obviously about to donate your coat OTE I might add my old school cap. Vintage 1962. Claret green.
Motto "Labor Omnia Vincit" or Layabouts Always Win.
ce

Posted by: Ruwan Uduwerage-Perera Feb 24 2014, 05:49 PM

Nothing Much,

I personally feel immensely uncomfortable with such statements being made in a public forum. I hope that offence was not meant?

Ruwan Uduwerage-Perera
Newbury Town Council - Councillor for Victoria Ward & Deputy Leader

Posted by: NWNREADER Feb 24 2014, 06:30 PM

If you feel the sleight personally, why sign off as 'Councillor' etc?

Posted by: Strafin Feb 24 2014, 06:54 PM

I assume it was a reference to all the Nigerian emails about untraceable riches and diplomats needing to share the wealth, why do you feel uncomfortable?

Posted by: Exhausted Feb 24 2014, 08:38 PM

If you are uncomfortable with this jocular statement based on factual experience then I see that as your problem not ours. Nigeria is the headquarters of scam emails and well you know it I'm sure. There was no hint of colour prejudice and perhaps you might want to take some comfort from that.

Why do people need to be so sensitive. Perhaps it might have been less of a problem for you if instead of Nigerian he had said Roumanian.

Posted by: Exhausted Feb 24 2014, 08:42 PM

Perhaps you might rethink that colour. Or, are you talking about a quartered Claret and Green cap.
Be careful you don't upset my colour wheel, I'm very sensitive.

Posted by: Simon Kirby Feb 24 2014, 08:44 PM

I don't see the offence. Nothing Much was just acknowledging the http://www.hoax-slayer.com/nigerian-scams.html that OtE had tempted him with.

Posted by: NWNREADER Feb 24 2014, 08:51 PM

Maybe it is Politically Incorrect to tell the truth?

Posted by: Nothing Much Feb 24 2014, 09:11 PM

Phew! Thank goodness for a Town Council meeting.

Of course,Mr R and others, no offence was intended. As is apparent from the web, such attempts to exploit others seem to have been largely carried out from that fine country. I have only had one letter from that part of the world many years ago. And indeed only one from a long lost relative who passed on intestate in Hong Kong.
Again from web information most of the present internet activity derives from the USA. Still the name seems to stick.

Beware of Young Turks and Greeks bearing gifts, Spanish Practices,Roman Holidays, and Vintage Claret Cups.(Especially Green ones)
I don't know why I thought that was amusing. The cap was green,and not vintage claret at all.
Sorry about that.

My only other Nigerian contact was with an extremely well spoken and eminent surgeon who operated on my late wife.
ce

Posted by: Nothing Much Feb 24 2014, 09:52 PM

Phew! Thank goodness for a Town Council meeting.

Of course,Mr R and others, no offence was intended. As is apparent from the web, such attempts to exploit others seem to have been largely carried out from that fine country. I

Posted by: MontyPython Feb 24 2014, 10:15 PM

Apparently it is wrong to mention a country well renowned for email scams conning people out of money and filling honest people's email boxes with spam thereby wasting their time.

But criticise NTC and you will be labelled vexatious with no right of reply!

Posted by: Turin Machine Feb 24 2014, 11:17 PM

I didn't see anything wrong with it either, just some over zealous politico trying to score points by playing the race card. Stupid and uncalled for.

Posted by: x2lls Feb 24 2014, 11:40 PM

Surely the race card should not have been played, considering attendance of the pub the other night?

Posted by: Strafin Feb 24 2014, 11:45 PM

To be fair the race card hasn't been played, RUP said he had been offended, he did not say why. We assume race, and it probably is, but let's wait and see. We know Ruwan is at a meeting tonight and won't have seen this yet.

Posted by: motormad Feb 25 2014, 12:03 AM

Having met Ruwan he doesn't seem to be the touchy-feely easily offended type.
He is relatively new on this forum which is quite steadfooted in the small but varied User base. While we may be able to tell NM's musings as jokey-banter prehaps RUP was not able to.

I personally take nothing NM says with any offense at all. quite the lovely chap he is as well.

Posted by: Nothing Much Feb 25 2014, 10:54 AM

I personally take nothing NM says with any offense at all. quite the lovely chap he is as well.

Thanks MM, cupcakes are on me,
ce

Posted by: On the edge Feb 25 2014, 11:25 AM

That's just the point, no one was playing the race card at all.

Posted by: Claude Feb 25 2014, 12:21 PM

NM said Bleedin' Nigerians get everywhere.

Ruwan said he was uncomfortable with that statement.

That's fair enough. Imagine if a real life Nigerian living in Newbury stumbled onto this forum and that was the first thing they saw, they'd feel marginalised, wouldn't they?

Without context it's easy to read 2+2 and get 5 (or in MM's case 400x4 and get 2,000 ), I know NM meant no harm so I have no issue with what he said, neither do I have any problem with Ruwan voicing his protest.

Posted by: motormad Feb 25 2014, 12:24 PM

Posted by: Baffers100 Mar 3 2014, 05:04 PM

BTW MotorMad, you won't find many shared ownership properties on the usual sites like primelocation- although they do make an appearance, these sorts of places are over subscribed so tend to sell almost once they appear.

You need to go on the website for the local housnig association for the district you want to live in. Thatcham and Newbury I believe is Sovereign, and Basingstoke is Sentinel. I also remember using the "homebuy" group website some years back so you may want to try there.

I feel your pain entirely. I saw one of the places at the racecourse the other day which you can buy with a 5% deposit. The thing is, they're £375,000 to start with and well above the asking price for a simil;ar sized proerty not next to the racecourse (which I also see as an advantage). For that money too, you get ridiculously pokey rooms and gardens the size of stamps. I think our next one will be a bit of a project.