Police probe racism allegations for Ashley Cole 'choc ice' tweet. Options

[JeffG]

(post deleted)

[Simon Kirby]

Simon, I disagree my friend. (what happened with the shed in the end?)

Ozzie is short (speaking terms) for Australian.
Brit or Scot is short for British/Scottish.
A **** can be used offensively but is also short for a person of Pakistani origin.

But you miss the point; Ozzie, Brit, Scott, **** - they're just short names for the poeple of those nations, there's nothing inherently offensive in the words, they're not racial slurs like Frog, Hun, or Mick. What sets **** apart is what the word connotes - a race-hatred of Pakistanis. It's not possible now to use the word without invoking that race-hatred, even if that isn't the intention.

The shed's probably something for another thread, though there's not much more to say yet, I was forced to quit my allotment by an oppressive and self-serving Town Council and until I get the meeting minutes there's not much hope of any resolution to the issue. The complaint is with the Information Commissioner but it'll takes several more months before I get a decision. Thanks for asking though.

[Timbo]

But you miss the point; Ozzie, Brit, Scott, **** - they're just short names for the poeple of those nations, there's nothing inherently offensive in the words, they're not racial slurs like Frog, Hun, or Mick. What sets **** apart is what the word connotes - a race-hatred of Pakistanis. It's not possible now to use the word without invoking that race-hatred, even if that isn't the intention.

Yeah, I see what you're saying. That's societies fault though, surely? Which is what I'm saying - certain words cause taboo issues!

The shed's probably something for another thread, though there's not much more to say yet, I was forced to quit my allotment by an oppressive and self-serving Town Council and until I get the meeting minutes there's not much hope of any resolution to the issue. The complaint is with the Information Commissioner but it'll takes several more months before I get a decision. Thanks for asking though.

Somethings never change. Sorry you had to give it up. It was a really nice one.

[Andy Capp]

But you miss the point; Ozzie, Brit, Scott, **** - they're just short names for the poeple of those nations, there's nothing inherently offensive in the words, they're not racial slurs like Frog, Hun, or Mick. What sets **** apart is what the word connotes - a race-hatred of Pakistanis. It's not possible now to use the word without invoking that race-hatred, even if that isn't the intention.

Incidentally, I understand that the word 'Brit' is a pejorative term in Northern Ireland.

[Simon Kirby]

Incidentally, I understand that the word 'Brit' is a pejorative term in Northern Ireland.

I didn't know that but it makes sense, the British aren't loved by everyone in the North.

[gel]

All Very Confusing/ Petty-IMO:

Now we know the N**r word is sacred/ top of the list unless you are shall we say African;
sort of reverse racism surely.
What about the original derivative Negro?; ink I buy has that word in, when it lists black
as content of cartridge, for other languages.

Is Chocolate about to join banned/sensive words list, alongside Brown/ Black/Coloured?
One of latter seems to cause offence to some sensitive souls, though can't recall which

P**i, was a short form surely of Pakistani, but only one is a defined (no longer usable) word shall we say.

Why is it, I as a Caucasian don't feel miffed if referred to as a Limey by a Yank (banned yet?),
or a Pom by an Oz etc?
Is a 'Paddy' now forbidden too, alongside possibly 'Mick'?

Banning things ie words/alcohol etc does not stop their use of course..may encourage more uptake.

[Simon Kirby]

Yeah, I see what you're saying. That's societies fault though, surely? Which is what I'm saying - certain words cause taboo issues!

I'd say it's all about social mores and norms, not really about language at all. "Peado" for instance is a perfectly acceptable term of abuse for peadophiles, not because there's anything intrinsically acceptable in the word, but because it's acceptable to hate and abuse peadophiles, whereas "lunatic" isn't now an acceptable way of describing someone with mental health issues, again not because the word is inappropriate, which it is, but because it connotes a fear and mockery of the insane. It wasn't always thus, the Victorians displayed the mentally ill in zoos for the amusment of the middle-classes and thought nothing of indulging their artistic interest in adolescents and pre-pubescents. Words don't cause the taboos, language just follows.

[Newbelly]

... the Victorians displayed the mentally ill in zoos for the amusment of the middle-classes ...

And now we have "Big Brother".

[Biker1]

And now we have "Big Brother".

So true!
We haven't advanced at all have we?

[GMR]

Andy - But it is Ok for black people to be racist. They call each other N****rs all the time. It's only us bad old white slave masters that are still intolerant bigots that should all be rounded up and shot by the do gooding pc brigade (a large number of which are on this forum!).

You talk rubbish sometimes.

A black man calling another black man a N**** is not racist. A white man calling a black man that name is; and abusive. This is because blacks were made slaves and suppressed by whites. Not the other way around.

Of course blacks can be racist or ignorant to whites; but this isn't the case here. This debate is over Cole being called a "choc ice" which means black with white inside (i.e. blacks acting white or for whites). Not as Ferdinand said to try to get out of a hole he dug for himself.

Edited....

[Jayjay]

You talk rubbish sometimes.

A black man calling another black man a N**** is not racist. A white man calling a black man that name is; and abusive. This is because blacks were made slaves and suppressed by whites. Not the other way around.

Of course blacks can be racist or ignorant to whites; but this isn't the case here. This debate is over Cole being called a "choc ice" which means black with white inside (i.e. master to whites). Not as Ferdinand said to try to get out of a hole he dug for himself.

Being born and bred in an area that has always had a more ethnic culture than Berkshire, this is a turn of phrase I have heard all my life. It is used as an insult to a person of mixed race, especially police officers. Means you look black but your values are white or you think/act like a white person. Not that you are a master over whites.

[Newbelly]

Being born and bred in an area that has always had a more ethnic culture than Berkshire, this is a turn of phrase I have heard all my life. It is used as an insult to a person of mixed race, especially police officers. Means you look black but your values are white or you think/act like a white person. Not that you are a master over whites.

Correct.
Edit: It can also mean "traitor"

[GMR]

Being born and bred in an area that has always had a more ethnic culture than Berkshire, this is a turn of phrase I have heard all my life. It is used as an insult to a person of mixed race, especially police officers. Means you look black but your values are white or you think/act like a white person. Not that you are a master over whites.

I just read back what I said and, yes, I wrote it wrong. It actually means black on the outside, while acting white or supporting white.

[GMR]

Correct.
Edit: It can also mean "traitor"

Correct; traitor to other blacks.

[Andy Capp]

The way I look at it, a person would use the term 'choc ice' because they are prejudiced against whites. That is a form of racism. If one treats people equally, then there can't be a 'choc ice', (where either material is of contrasting colour). Rio Ferdinand wasn't 'being' 'racist', but I think he showed a side of himself that he now regrets doing.

[Jayjay]

The way I look at it, a person would use the term 'choc ice' because they are prejudiced against whites. That is a form of racism. If one treat's people equally, then there can't be a 'choc ice', (where either material is of contrasting colour). Rio Ferdinand wasn't 'being' 'racist', but I think he showed a side of himself that he now regrets doing.

Agree. Everybody should be treated equally. I would like to see all prejudice dealt with in the sme manner we have dealt with racial prejudice.

[GMR]

The way I look at it, a person would use the term 'choc ice' because they are prejudiced against whites. That is a form of racism. If one treats people equally, then there can't be a 'choc ice', (where either material is of contrasting colour). Rio Ferdinand wasn't 'being' 'racist', but I think he showed a side of himself that he now regrets doing.

I disagree. "Choc Ice" is not used because they are prejudice against whites but because they act like whites. Which is totally different. They are not criticising whites but other blacks.

[GMR]

Agree. Everybody should be treated equally. I would like to see all prejudice dealt with in the sme manner we have dealt with racial prejudice.

I agree; all prejudice should be treated equal.

[Andy Capp]

I disagree. "Choc Ice" is not used because they are prejudice against whites but because they act like whites. Which is totally different. They are not criticising whites but other blacks.

Other than colour, what is 'different' about white or black people? We're all the same, aren't we? As 'choc ice' is a pejorative term (it is meant as an insult as if 'being white' (whatever that means), is wrong), then that is nailed on racism.

[GMR]

Other than colour, what is 'different' about white or black people? We're all the same, aren't we? As 'choc ice' is a pejorative term (it is meant as an insult as if 'being white' (whatever that means), is wrong), then that is nailed on racism.

Of course we are all the same, but that doesn't change what I said or how those words are used.